International Education

[wunky]

Why are some institutions of higher education limiting opportunities for faculty and students to go overseas? Do they not see the benefit of having a community that knows that the world is not flat?

[roger]

Hi wunky, and welcome to the forum! You may want to introduce yourself in this thread, made specially for our new members. I think you'll find most people here are nice, though I am, frankly, a bit of an ass.

In what ways do Universities limit overseas travel? Is it economic based, or based on policies, such as an unwillingness to transfer credits earned during overseas travel? I know my school had a semester abroad exchange program; I forget what school we did that with - some place in England. In any case, as we were in upper state NY, they got the raw end of that deal. Snow, ice, and nothing but farmland for miles around.

[wunky]

The majority of the people at IHEs that do travel are the gray beards. There are lots of opportunities for others to travel, but with the pressure that is exerted on junior faculty-to publish and do research and undergrads/grads- to graduate "on schedule". There is very little if any time allocated to encourage overseas exploration. I would be curious about the numbers of students who availed themselves of that opportunity (the semester abroad program). Also what the reason behind doing so would have been. Probably not academic.
The amount of money that goes unspent each year that is designated for overseas study and research is growing each year. Transfer of credit is less of hassle now, it had been more problematic in previous years. It does not require a lot of time, nor does it require a lot of personal funds.

[Kiless]

I was searching for anything about overseas travel opportunities for secondary students and came across this thread. As someone who did study overseas for a short while, one of the factors was 'hidden costs' such as meals and accomodation. The reason I went overseas was because of the limited curriculum (at the time) of my university. We were only recently established and I was a student of the first undergraduate year to go through. Certainly Australians seem to be a very well-travelled group as a whole... perhaps that's a socio-cultural thing as many Australians seem to have either relations or friends from other countries or who orginated from other countries... perhaps that should be a new thread in itself. Perhaps it has a reputation of only those people in privileged economic background can go overseas to study?

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by wunky

Why are some institutions of higher education limiting opportunities for faculty and students to go overseas? Do they not see the benefit of having a community that knows that the world is not flat?

I'm not sure what you mean by "limiting opportunities"; as far as I can tell, opportunities for international study have never been greater since the Rennaissance.

The problem is that the costs of international study have also never been greater. As far as I can tell, any university world-wide will let you study almost anything anywhere, if you can afford it. Especially in the United States, where students mostly pay for their own education, most can't afford it. Most junior faculty similarly can't afford it, because of the expenses of maintaining two houses on one salary.

[wunky]

The best thing about the program I work for is that it pays for 95% of all expenses.Granted the progam only lasts 4-6 weeks. But if given the opportunity to travel and see other cultures and learn more about the world, at very little cost, why say no?
There are programs available for longer periods of time and I would be more than glad to share the information. I know how tricky navigating the federal (US) maze can be.
What I meant by limiting opportunities is that several people who have applied for the program I work for and they are not allowed to participate, due to university constraints.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by wunky

The best thing about the program I work for is that it pays for 95% of all expenses.Granted the progam only lasts 4-6 weeks. But if given the opportunity to travel and see other cultures and learn more about the world, at very little cost, why say no?
There are programs available for longer periods of time and I would be more than glad to share the information. I know how tricky navigating the federal (US) maze can be.
What I meant by limiting opportunities is that several people who have applied for the program I work for and they are not allowed to participate, due to university constraints.

What sort of programs?

And, for that matter, what sort of constraints?

Yes, I have a professional as well as a personal interest in these matters, as you might guess from my nom de Net.

One possible problem with your program that I can see is that 4-6 weeks may not be a convenient length of time for a trip. If it comes during the (US) academic year, it's essentially a non-starter, as it would require the student essentially to miss all of a 15-week semester for a 6-week trip. (If, for example, you started a class with me in mid-January, took February and half of March off, and then returned just before spring break having missed a third of the class, you would probably not be able to pass my class, so you might as well take the whole semester off.) If the trip comes during the summer vacations, many students rely on summer income to be able to afford to go to school -- so it's not just a question of covering expenses, but also of covering loss of income.

[wunky]

The program I work for is run during the summers- June, July, August, so that very little if any personal leave would be required for participation.
As for constraints, in FY2005 there were 7 nominated participants that were not able to participate, all in higher ed; at least 5 of them were told that they could not participate by their deans. One reason I heard from one of those 5 was that University activities begin in mid July and Ms. X is expected to be there, if she plans on seeking tenure. Why would "university activities" be more important to tenure that international exposure for the nominated participant and for the university. That did not make sense to me.
What sort of programs is a bit broad, if you can tell me what you would like to do and what field you are in that would help me narrow it down.
Thanks

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by wunky

The program I work for is run during the summers- June, July, August, so that very little if any personal leave would be required for participation.
As for constraints, in FY2005 there were 7 nominated participants that were not able to participate, all in higher ed; at least 5 of them were told that they could not participate by their deans. One reason I heard from one of those 5 was that University activities begin in mid July and Ms. X is expected to be there, if she plans on seeking tenure.

Ah, so we're talking about faculty support here, not student. And during the summer, which is also valuable information. Thank you very much, wunky.

Quote:

Why would "university activities" be more important to tenure that international exposure for the nominated participant and for the university. That did not make sense to me.

Well, I don't know how much you know about tenure policies and politics -- and indeed, tenure policies and politics can be something of a mystery even to the successful participants. At the risk of boring you with details you already know, let me see if I can make some background clearer to the lurkers:

Tenure applicants are traditionally graded on three categories, "teaching," "research," and "service." Teaching and research are mostly self-explanatory, while "service" encompasses public works at a variety of levels, from coaching a local Little League team (largely irrelevant), to serving on departmental committees (yawn), through service to the university (such as university-level comittees, which is much more impressive), up to national- and international- level service such as being president of a major organization like the Royal Society, or perhaps serving as the President's National Science Advisor.

There's obviously a benefit to the university from having faculty do this kind of scut-work (like helping recruit and orient new students), so it's reasonable that the university would want to reward that. On the other hand, what's the actual benefit from a 4-6 week sojourn abroad in light of the tenure criteria?

It's unlikely to produce immediate research results. It's irrelevant to teaching. And in terms of "service," this kind of exposure isn't particularly helpful to the university, especially in the short-term. It's the sort of thing that is likely to be helpful in the long-run, by establishing research ties (which can lead to fruitful collaborations) and helping the university get exposure -- but the demands of tenure are usually very short-term because of the tightness of the tenure clock.

Basically, you may be targeting the wrong group of people. Literally, they're too young. Another university tradition is the post-tenure sabbatical, essentially a semester-long paid research leave, designed to facilitate and establish exactly this kind of stuff. Senior (post-tenure) academics typically get one of these every seven years. The program you describe would be perfect for someone who has just gotten tenure, and can now afford to take the long view and attempt to establish a long-term, multi-year research collaboration with a foreign group.

I guess one way of looking at this is to restate what you said earlier -- the greybeards are the ones who travel. There's a career path in academia as in medicine; you do what you don't like early on, so that later you can do what you like. Establish that you're a good enough scholar on your own that you are worth supporting long-term, and most universities will support you. But if you need to produce twenty journal articles in your first seven years.... what can you say to a dean about how this will help with the candidate's "research, teaching, and service"?

[Kiless]

I'm bumping this (hope it's okay!) because I was thinking recently about my experience overseas where I was on a tour with students. (I was also dithering about whether this should be in this thread or the other thread about 'How limiting are curriculum standards'

When I was at Kobe College, I was limited in learning about the curriculum there because my job was to help care for the students. They had an English teaching method / philosophy based upon the pratices of a former teacher 'Angie Crew'. They even have a memorial hall named after her. It was just sheer misfortune that I never really got the chance to investigate what were the obvious benefits of their teaching system. Even 'googling' it only brings up a broken-link news story.

Perhaps that might be a consideration, to look at the student exchanges that happen and what is being advertised as beneficial to the students and link them to what can be brought to the teachers who can then follow 'in the students' steps' to the exchange school?

Because perhaps finding out what the exchange students thought 'worked well' (surveys? Exchange school reports about progress?) in the schools they went to can help isolate good practices that should be investigated further?

After all, it could be a bit hit-and-miss otherwise. Perhaps schools should be more proactive (like my notion of brother/sister school exchange programs that exist) have departments that outline the practices that are unique and advantageous and help with teacher exchanges.... but what we may think works for OUR students might not be as culturally applicable... and maybe the students can act as 'guinea pigs' for the experiment?

[wunky]

Kiless,
Maybe what works for your students could be just as beneficial to educators here. There is always the curiousity of how one culture views another, this could be a new avenue to increase awareness.
It would be great if schools would be more proactive, the ideas are there, but usually no one to get the ball rolling.
If there is anything that you would like to send me, pm me and I will send you my work email.
I will be meeting with the Education officer at Australian Embassy here in DC soon- If you can think of any topic that I should raise with her- best practices, curriculum models, sister city let me know.
Thanks