Quick question about chicken pox

Perpetual Notion · 7th September 2005, 05:47 PM

Why is it more dangerous to contract chicken pox as an adult than as a child? Isn't an adult's immune system better developed? I'm not including the elderly in this.

Zep · 7th September 2005, 08:42 PM

One source that explains some issues - there's plenty more.

Perpetual Notion · 7th September 2005, 09:23 PM

From the article:

Quote:

Occasionally chickenpox can cause serious, life-threatening illnesses, such as encephalitis or pneumonia, especially in adults.

So why do adults have a more severe reaction to the same virus? I can understand it if they're elderly, immune impaired or pregnant, but why just your average adult? I'm not talking about shingles, just chickenpox.

(Thanks for your answer Zep. I hope I didn't miss something from the link.)

Deetee · 8th September 2005, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
Why is it more dangerous to contract chicken pox as an adult than as a child? Isn't an adult's immune system better developed?

That is often part of the problem, paradoxically.
The immune system is rather complex. Part of it is responsible for recognising the invader and producing antibodies which can help fight the bug if encountered at a future date. Another part of the immune system tries to eradicate the current infection, and often this results in inflammation as host cells pour in to fight the virus. You will be familiar with this reaction.

With Varicella (c. pox) virus, the infant immune system recognises the infection and produces sufficient antibodies to usually last many years (This prevents the infection creeping back as shingles). However, the rash is usually not too bad, as there is not much local immune response and inflammatory reaction because this part of the immune system is not fully primed to respond actively. In adults, the inflammatory reaction can be worse, because the adult imune system is more mature. The host tries to destroy virus in other parts of the body such as the lung and the brain, causing inflammation (and pneumonitis, encephalitis etc).

However, things are not that simple in practice. Pregnant women are immune-impaired compared to other adults, but are more likely than they are to get pneumonitis if they get c. pox. I'm not clear why...

Note to self: Check this out!

Zep · 8th September 2005, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
So why do adults have a more severe reaction to the same virus? I can understand it if they're elderly, immune impaired or pregnant, but why just your average adult? I'm not talking about shingles, just chickenpox.

(Thanks for your answer Zep. I hope I didn't miss something from the link.)

A good question! I don't know myself.

The reference I found was, I hoped, sufficiently technical answer your initial questions. There was nothing specific I wanted to underline though. Stick "adult chicken pox" into Google...

Perpetual Notion · 8th September 2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deetee
That is often part of the problem, paradoxically.
The immune system is rather complex. Part of it is responsible for recognising the invader and producing antibodies which can help fight the bug if encountered at a future date. Another part of the immune system tries to eradicate the current infection, and often this results in inflammation as host cells pour in to fight the virus. You will be familiar with this reaction.

*snipped the rest*

Thanks DeeTee! This is what I was trying to figure out. The immune system is still a mystery to me.

Capsid · 8th September 2005, 11:45 AM

The control of varicella zoster virus (VZV) aka chicken pox infection is achieved though the cell mediated immune responses which produce the tell tale rash. In young children the cellular response is not fully developed and the rash is less severe as a consequence yet sufficient to provide immune memory.

Pregnant women are susceptible as their immunity is altered from a Th1 bias (cell mediated) to a Th2 bias (antibody mediated).

The elderly and immunocompromised likewise have reduced cell mediated responses.

Deetee · 8th September 2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capsid
Pregnant women are susceptible as their immunity is altered from a Th1 bias (cell mediated) to a Th2 bias (antibody mediated).

Yes, but I don't know why the clinical illness in a pregnant female conforms to that where there is an exaggerated cell mediated response with severe pneumonitis predominating.

LibraryLady · 8th September 2005, 05:09 PM

I worked with someone a long time ago who had to retire on disability after having the chicken pox. He was also scarred terribly.

I also wouldn't wish shingles on my worst enemy. Well....I can think of some people....

Dogdoctor · 8th September 2005, 06:21 PM

I am not a human doctor but looking around on the internet I found that immunity to chickenpox appears to be related to cell mediated immunity. Cell mediated immunity to chickenpox is much better in kids than adults. Now why that is I don't know but that could explain your question a little.

Capsid · 8th September 2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deetee
Yes, but I don't know why the clinical illness in a pregnant female conforms to that where there is an exaggerated cell mediated response with severe pneumonitis predominating.

Hmmm, good point, although Th2 means that there is still a cell mediated response that promotes the humoral (antibody) arm. I don't know enough about pneumonitis but could it be possible that the condition in pregnant females might be antibody or Th2 mediated?

7th September 2005, 05:47 PM	#1
Perpetual Notion Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 412	Quick question about chicken pox Why is it more dangerous to contract chicken pox as an adult than as a child? Isn't an adult's immune system better developed? I'm not including the elderly in this.
	__________________ "They're not all locked up." - My skeptical grandmother

7th September 2005, 08:42 PM	#2
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	One source that explains some issues - there's plenty more.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

7th September 2005, 09:23 PM	#3
Perpetual Notion Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 412	From the article: Quote: Occasionally chickenpox can cause serious, life-threatening illnesses, such as encephalitis or pneumonia, especially in adults. So why do adults have a more severe reaction to the same virus? I can understand it if they're elderly, immune impaired or pregnant, but why just your average adult? I'm not talking about shingles, just chickenpox. (Thanks for your answer Zep. I hope I didn't miss something from the link.)
	__________________ "They're not all locked up." - My skeptical grandmother

8th September 2005, 05:01 AM	#4
Deetee Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,790	Re: Quick question about chicken pox Quote: Originally posted by Perpetual Notion Why is it more dangerous to contract chicken pox as an adult than as a child? Isn't an adult's immune system better developed? That is often part of the problem, paradoxically. The immune system is rather complex. Part of it is responsible for recognising the invader and producing antibodies which can help fight the bug if encountered at a future date. Another part of the immune system tries to eradicate the current infection, and often this results in inflammation as host cells pour in to fight the virus. You will be familiar with this reaction. With Varicella (c. pox) virus, the infant immune system recognises the infection and produces sufficient antibodies to usually last many years (This prevents the infection creeping back as shingles). However, the rash is usually not too bad, as there is not much local immune response and inflammatory reaction because this part of the immune system is not fully primed to respond actively. In adults, the inflammatory reaction can be worse, because the adult imune system is more mature. The host tries to destroy virus in other parts of the body such as the lung and the brain, causing inflammation (and pneumonitis, encephalitis etc). However, things are not that simple in practice. Pregnant women are immune-impaired compared to other adults, but are more likely than they are to get pneumonitis if they get c. pox. I'm not clear why... Note to self: Check this out!
Deetee Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,790	__________________ "Reci bobu bob a popu pop." - Tanja "Everything is physics. This does not mean that physics is everything." - Cuddles "The entire practice of homeopathy can be substituted with the advice to "take two aspirins and call me in the morning." - Linda "Homeopathy: I never knew there was so little in it." - BSM

8th September 2005, 05:58 AM	#5
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Originally posted by Perpetual Notion So why do adults have a more severe reaction to the same virus? I can understand it if they're elderly, immune impaired or pregnant, but why just your average adult? I'm not talking about shingles, just chickenpox. (Thanks for your answer Zep. I hope I didn't miss something from the link.) A good question! I don't know myself. The reference I found was, I hoped, sufficiently technical answer your initial questions. There was nothing specific I wanted to underline though. Stick "adult chicken pox" into Google...
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

8th September 2005, 09:12 AM	#6
Perpetual Notion Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 412	Re: Re: Quick question about chicken pox Quote: Originally posted by Deetee That is often part of the problem, paradoxically. The immune system is rather complex. Part of it is responsible for recognising the invader and producing antibodies which can help fight the bug if encountered at a future date. Another part of the immune system tries to eradicate the current infection, and often this results in inflammation as host cells pour in to fight the virus. You will be familiar with this reaction. snipped the rest Thanks DeeTee! This is what I was trying to figure out. The immune system is still a mystery to me.
	__________________ "They're not all locked up." - My skeptical grandmother

8th September 2005, 11:45 AM	#7
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,506	The control of varicella zoster virus (VZV) aka chicken pox infection is achieved though the cell mediated immune responses which produce the tell tale rash. In young children the cellular response is not fully developed and the rash is less severe as a consequence yet sufficient to provide immune memory. Pregnant women are susceptible as their immunity is altered from a Th1 bias (cell mediated) to a Th2 bias (antibody mediated). The elderly and immunocompromised likewise have reduced cell mediated responses.
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,506

8th September 2005, 05:02 PM	#8
Deetee Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,790	Quote: Originally posted by Capsid Pregnant women are susceptible as their immunity is altered from a Th1 bias (cell mediated) to a Th2 bias (antibody mediated). Yes, but I don't know why the clinical illness in a pregnant female conforms to that where there is an exaggerated cell mediated response with severe pneumonitis predominating.
Deetee Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,790	__________________ "Reci bobu bob a popu pop." - Tanja "Everything is physics. This does not mean that physics is everything." - Cuddles "The entire practice of homeopathy can be substituted with the advice to "take two aspirins and call me in the morning." - Linda "Homeopathy: I never knew there was so little in it." - BSM

8th September 2005, 05:09 PM	#9
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,079	I worked with someone a long time ago who had to retire on disability after having the chicken pox. He was also scarred terribly. I also wouldn't wish shingles on my worst enemy. Well....I can think of some people....
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

8th September 2005, 06:21 PM	#10
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 14,292	I am not a human doctor but looking around on the internet I found that immunity to chickenpox appears to be related to cell mediated immunity. Cell mediated immunity to chickenpox is much better in kids than adults. Now why that is I don't know but that could explain your question a little.
	__________________

8th September 2005, 08:00 PM	#11
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,506	Quote: Originally posted by Deetee Yes, but I don't know why the clinical illness in a pregnant female conforms to that where there is an exaggerated cell mediated response with severe pneumonitis predominating. Hmmm, good point, although Th2 means that there is still a cell mediated response that promotes the humoral (antibody) arm. I don't know enough about pneumonitis but could it be possible that the condition in pregnant females might be antibody or Th2 mediated?
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,506