Anyone heard of the US military Psi Ops - "The Men Who Stare at Goats"?

a_unique_person · 2nd October 2005, 06:43 PM

http://www.jonronson.com/goats_04.html

Quote:

In 1979 a secret unit was established by the most gifted minds within the US Army. Defying all known accepted military practice - and indeed, the laws of physics - they believed that a soldier could adopt the cloak of invisibility, pass cleanly through walls and, perhaps most chillingly, kill goats just by staring at them. Entrusted with defending America from all known adversaries, they were the First Earth Battalion. And they really weren't joking. What's more, they're back and fighting the War on Terror. 'The men who stare at goats' reveals extraordinary - and very nutty - national secrets at the core of George W Bush's War on Terror.

With first-hand access to the leading players in the story, Ronson traces the evolution of these bizarre activities over the past three decades, and sees how it is alive today within US Homeland Security and post-war Iraq. Why are they blasting Iraqi prisoners-of-war with the theme tune to Barney the Purple Dinosaur? Why have 100 de-bleated goats been secretly placed inside the Special Forces command centre at Fort Bragg, North Carolina? How was the US Military associated with the mysterious mass-suicide of a strange cult from San Diego? 'The men who stare at goats' answers these, and many more, questions.

I would normally not give this sort of thing a seconds consideration, but after hearing about the escape of the killer dolphins, I have to wonder what is going on.

From Amazon book reviews

Quote:

This is a fascinating tale about people who are completely nuts. Unfortunately, many of these people who are completely nuts hold or have held senior positions in the United States military. Ronson rarely writes a judgmental word, but allows his subject to speak for themselves--and hang themselves with their own words. (At least, that's the impression--obviously Ronson has selected which of their words to present.)

Ronson looks at ideas for a "First Earth Battallion" by soldier-turned-newage-marketing-guru Jim Channon, who proposed in 1979 that the military put greater emphasis on influencing people with alternative weapons such as paranormal abilities and music. Ronson traces the use of music in warfare to the use of loud music by the FBI at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas and as a torture technique used by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay and in Iraq.

The book covers a wide-ranging territory of nuttiness, including Uri Geller (who is quoted in the book suggesting that he has been re-activated for use by the U.S. military), the remote viewers at Ft. Meade (Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Pat Price, Ed Dames, etc.), the non-lethal weaponry of UFO and paranormal investigator Col. John Alexander, the connections between the remote viewers and Courtney Brown--and then to Art Bell and Heaven's Gate, and the CIA's MKULTRA experiments and the death-by-LSD of Frank Olson and his son Eric's search for the facts about his death.

The book is alternately amusing and horrifying. It would be funny if this craziness wasn't taken so seriously by high-ranking officials who have put it into practice, wasting tax dollars and occasionally producing horribly unethical outcomes.

I highly recommend this book.

Is there anything in this that can be objectively verified as being true? The author is on my favourite talk back radio show, right now, and this is a normally half decent show with both feet on the ground. (The host likes to have the odd woo-woo on just to poke fun at them.)

Mercutio · 2nd October 2005, 06:45 PM

It's on my list of books to buy and read, but I have not done either yet.

a_unique_person · 2nd October 2005, 06:46 PM

First piece of evidence, there is a T-Shirt.

http://www.offkilter.co.uk/feb/

fsol · 3rd October 2005, 03:40 AM

There was a Channel 4 (Uk) series about it a year or so ago.

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/C/crazy_rulers/

The Fool · 3rd October 2005, 05:08 AM

Ah yes...the goat staring trials....

Last I heard the Goats lost narrowly after the death of 5 CIA agents for the loss of 6 goats. However the goats appealed on the grounds that many of the surviving CIA agents were permanently cross eyed.

Mojo · 3rd October 2005, 05:20 AM

I saw the episode of the TV series covering this. It also featured a guy who claimed he could kill hamsters by staring at them. Hey, that'd make a terrific weapon, wouldn't it? Nobody's going to carry on hostilities once those dead hamsters start piling up!

Kopji · 3rd October 2005, 06:09 AM

I hold this secret hope that our efforts in this area are all part of a complicated effort to keep the enemy guessing at our true capabilities. Alas...

Luke T. · 3rd October 2005, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I would normally not give this sort of thing a seconds consideration, but after hearing about the escape of the killer dolphins, I have to wonder what is going on.

And I have to wonder why you believe the story of the killer dolphins.

Bikewer · 3rd October 2005, 06:45 AM

Dolphins have (and are, apparently) been trained in various recon activities, and also for the recovery of ordnance. (IE, the Broken Arrow scenario) To my knowledge, underwater lasers could not be used as weapons per se.

The lasers used on the surface to "paint" a target for homing bombs or missiles is rather bulky, and used infrared lasers. Not likely of much use underwater.

Of course, the CIA attempted to locate "remote viewers" who could give them insider tours of secret Soviet facilities. Took 'em years to decide it was bunk.

rikzilla · 3rd October 2005, 06:45 AM

Sounds like an interesting book to suggest for the book club. Official descent into woo-wooism is lamentable but it certainly happens. It's a good subject for a political/skeptical book club anyway!

Wow; staring goats to death! That's rich!

I wonder if Randi'd pay out for a demonstration of goat death staring???

-z

The Fool · 3rd October 2005, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

And I have to wonder why you believe the story of the killer dolphins.

Ok luke, Us Navy dolphins may not be killers but I bet some of them would do it if they were offered indemnity from prosecution...and a lot of fish...

Manny · 3rd October 2005, 06:50 AM

Might as well give it a try. They sure aren't having any success against the Patriots.

Luke T. · 3rd October 2005, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by The Fool

Ok luke, Us Navy dolphins may not be killers but I bet some of them would do it if they were offered indemnity from prosecution...and a lot of fish...

Then there would never be a little rubber boatful of Greenpeace activists when you really, really want one.

ManfredVonRichthoffen · 3rd October 2005, 12:46 PM

I enjoyed adventures with extremists, but this:

'"The Americans have always been better than the Iraqis at the leaflets." Early in the 1991 Persian Gulf war, he says, Iraqi psychological warfare meant telling American soldiers: "Your wives are back at home having sex with Bart Simpson and Burt Reynolds." '

from here:
http://www.jonronson.com/goats_nytimes.html

doesn't bode well:
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/radio/baghdad.htm

zenith-nadir · 3rd October 2005, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I saw the episode of the TV series covering this. It also featured a guy who claimed he could kill hamsters by staring at them. Hey, that'd make a terrific weapon, wouldn't it? Nobody's going to carry on hostilities once those dead hamsters start piling up!

I have taken martial arts for many years and we had a guest Sensei once who trained in Japan and China for 30 odd years. He claimed that he once met a Master Sensei who's chi was so powerful he could interfere with one's eyes and make it impossible to focus during Kumite. So the story goes...I never knew if he was BS-ing or for real...

Luke T. · 3rd October 2005, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by zenith-nadir

He claimed that he once met a Master Sensei who's chi was so powerful he could interfere with one's eyes and make it impossible to focus during Kumite.

I've seen three Master Sensei's develop a vertical hand eyepoke block to counter this chi.

zenith-nadir · 3rd October 2005, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

I've seen three Master Sensei's develop a vertical hand eyepoke block to counter this chi.

Aaaaaa....a.wise guy heh?....nyuck, nyuck, nyuck....

The Fool · 3rd October 2005, 04:00 PM

Whats the standard unit of measuring quantities of Chi? The metric standard if you know it......I don't use imperial

Psiload · 3rd October 2005, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

Dolphins have (and are, apparently) been trained in various recon activities, and also for the recovery of ordnance. (IE, the Broken Arrow scenario) To my knowledge, underwater lasers could not be used as weapons per se.

The lasers used on the surface to "paint" a target for homing bombs or missiles is rather bulky, and used infrared lasers. Not likely of much use underwater.

Of course, the CIA attempted to locate "remote viewers" who could give them insider tours of secret Soviet facilities. Took 'em years to decide it was bunk.

Are those fricken dolphins with fricken laser beams attached to their fricken heads?

shemp · 3rd October 2005, 09:33 PM

I for one am glad to know that we are safe if our nation is ever attacked by an army of goats!

My question is, were the goats oiled?

2nd October 2005, 06:43 PM	#1
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	Anyone heard of the US military Psi Ops - "The Men Who Stare at Goats"? http://www.jonronson.com/goats_04.html Quote: In 1979 a secret unit was established by the most gifted minds within the US Army. Defying all known accepted military practice - and indeed, the laws of physics - they believed that a soldier could adopt the cloak of invisibility, pass cleanly through walls and, perhaps most chillingly, kill goats just by staring at them. Entrusted with defending America from all known adversaries, they were the First Earth Battalion. And they really weren't joking. What's more, they're back and fighting the War on Terror. 'The men who stare at goats' reveals extraordinary - and very nutty - national secrets at the core of George W Bush's War on Terror. With first-hand access to the leading players in the story, Ronson traces the evolution of these bizarre activities over the past three decades, and sees how it is alive today within US Homeland Security and post-war Iraq. Why are they blasting Iraqi prisoners-of-war with the theme tune to Barney the Purple Dinosaur? Why have 100 de-bleated goats been secretly placed inside the Special Forces command centre at Fort Bragg, North Carolina? How was the US Military associated with the mysterious mass-suicide of a strange cult from San Diego? 'The men who stare at goats' answers these, and many more, questions. I would normally not give this sort of thing a seconds consideration, but after hearing about the escape of the killer dolphins, I have to wonder what is going on. From Amazon book reviews Quote: Quote: This is a fascinating tale about people who are completely nuts. Unfortunately, many of these people who are completely nuts hold or have held senior positions in the United States military. Ronson rarely writes a judgmental word, but allows his subject to speak for themselves--and hang themselves with their own words. (At least, that's the impression--obviously Ronson has selected which of their words to present.) Ronson looks at ideas for a "First Earth Battallion" by soldier-turned-newage-marketing-guru Jim Channon, who proposed in 1979 that the military put greater emphasis on influencing people with alternative weapons such as paranormal abilities and music. Ronson traces the use of music in warfare to the use of loud music by the FBI at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas and as a torture technique used by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay and in Iraq. The book covers a wide-ranging territory of nuttiness, including Uri Geller (who is quoted in the book suggesting that he has been re-activated for use by the U.S. military), the remote viewers at Ft. Meade (Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Pat Price, Ed Dames, etc.), the non-lethal weaponry of UFO and paranormal investigator Col. John Alexander, the connections between the remote viewers and Courtney Brown--and then to Art Bell and Heaven's Gate, and the CIA's MKULTRA experiments and the death-by-LSD of Frank Olson and his son Eric's search for the facts about his death. The book is alternately amusing and horrifying. It would be funny if this craziness wasn't taken so seriously by high-ranking officials who have put it into practice, wasting tax dollars and occasionally producing horribly unethical outcomes. I highly recommend this book. Is there anything in this that can be objectively verified as being true? The author is on my favourite talk back radio show, right now, and this is a normally half decent show with both feet on the ground. (The host likes to have the odd woo-woo on just to poke fun at them.)
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

2nd October 2005, 06:45 PM	#2
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	It's on my list of books to buy and read, but I have not done either yet.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

2nd October 2005, 06:46 PM	#3
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	First piece of evidence, there is a T-Shirt. http://www.offkilter.co.uk/feb/
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

3rd October 2005, 03:40 AM	#4
fsol tinCAN Kiajaroovah Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064	There was a Channel 4 (Uk) series about it a year or so ago. http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/C/crazy_rulers/
fsol tinCAN Kiajaroovah Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064

3rd October 2005, 05:08 AM	#5
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Ah yes...the goat staring trials.... Last I heard the Goats lost narrowly after the death of 5 CIA agents for the loss of 6 goats. However the goats appealed on the grounds that many of the surviving CIA agents were permanently cross eyed.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

3rd October 2005, 05:20 AM	#6
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,079	I saw the episode of the TV series covering this. It also featured a guy who claimed he could kill hamsters by staring at them. Hey, that'd make a terrific weapon, wouldn't it? Nobody's going to carry on hostilities once those dead hamsters start piling up!
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

3rd October 2005, 06:09 AM	#7
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	I hold this secret hope that our efforts in this area are all part of a complicated effort to keep the enemy guessing at our true capabilities. Alas...

3rd October 2005, 06:21 AM	#8
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Originally Posted by a_unique_person I would normally not give this sort of thing a seconds consideration, but after hearing about the escape of the killer dolphins, I have to wonder what is going on. And I have to wonder why you believe the story of the killer dolphins.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

3rd October 2005, 06:45 AM	#9
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,519	Dolphins have (and are, apparently) been trained in various recon activities, and also for the recovery of ordnance. (IE, the Broken Arrow scenario) To my knowledge, underwater lasers could not be used as weapons per se. The lasers used on the surface to "paint" a target for homing bombs or missiles is rather bulky, and used infrared lasers. Not likely of much use underwater. Of course, the CIA attempted to locate "remote viewers" who could give them insider tours of secret Soviet facilities. Took 'em years to decide it was bunk.

3rd October 2005, 06:45 AM	#10
rikzilla Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 5,001	Sounds like an interesting book to suggest for the book club. Official descent into woo-wooism is lamentable but it certainly happens. It's a good subject for a political/skeptical book club anyway! Wow; staring goats to death! That's rich! I wonder if Randi'd pay out for a demonstration of goat death staring??? -z
	__________________ "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." -Chancellor Gorkon "inside Mr .Skinny lives a big man" -pillory (18 Jan 2007)

3rd October 2005, 06:46 AM	#11
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by Luke T. And I have to wonder why you believe the story of the killer dolphins. Ok luke, Us Navy dolphins may not be killers but I bet some of them would do it if they were offered indemnity from prosecution...and a lot of fish...
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

3rd October 2005, 06:50 AM	#12
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Might as well give it a try. They sure aren't having any success against the Patriots.
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295

3rd October 2005, 07:07 AM	#13
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Originally Posted by The Fool Ok luke, Us Navy dolphins may not be killers but I bet some of them would do it if they were offered indemnity from prosecution...and a lot of fish... Then there would never be a little rubber boatful of Greenpeace activists when you really, really want one.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

3rd October 2005, 12:46 PM	#14
ManfredVonRichthoffen Mook Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,513	I enjoyed adventures with extremists, but this: '"The Americans have always been better than the Iraqis at the leaflets." Early in the 1991 Persian Gulf war, he says, Iraqi psychological warfare meant telling American soldiers: "Your wives are back at home having sex with Bart Simpson and Burt Reynolds." ' from here: http://www.jonronson.com/goats_nytimes.html doesn't bode well: http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/radio/baghdad.htm
	__________________ Everytime you say sex an Englishman faints. Please, think of the Englishmen.

3rd October 2005, 01:59 PM	#15
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Originally Posted by Mojo I saw the episode of the TV series covering this. It also featured a guy who claimed he could kill hamsters by staring at them. Hey, that'd make a terrific weapon, wouldn't it? Nobody's going to carry on hostilities once those dead hamsters start piling up! I have taken martial arts for many years and we had a guest Sensei once who trained in Japan and China for 30 odd years. He claimed that he once met a Master Sensei who's chi was so powerful he could interfere with one's eyes and make it impossible to focus during Kumite. So the story goes...I never knew if he was BS-ing or for real...
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

3rd October 2005, 03:58 PM	#17
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Originally Posted by Luke T. I've seen three Master Sensei's develop a vertical hand eyepoke block to counter this chi. Aaaaaa....a.wise guy heh?....nyuck, nyuck, nyuck....
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

3rd October 2005, 04:00 PM	#18
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Whats the standard unit of measuring quantities of Chi? The metric standard if you know it......I don't use imperial
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

3rd October 2005, 04:04 PM	#19
Psiload Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,105	Originally Posted by Bikewer Dolphins have (and are, apparently) been trained in various recon activities, and also for the recovery of ordnance. (IE, the Broken Arrow scenario) To my knowledge, underwater lasers could not be used as weapons per se. The lasers used on the surface to "paint" a target for homing bombs or missiles is rather bulky, and used infrared lasers. Not likely of much use underwater. Of course, the CIA attempted to locate "remote viewers" who could give them insider tours of secret Soviet facilities. Took 'em years to decide it was bunk. Are those fricken dolphins with fricken laser beams attached to their fricken heads?
Psiload Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,105	__________________ You're not the boss of me.

3rd October 2005, 09:33 PM	#20
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,884	I for one am glad to know that we are safe if our nation is ever attacked by an army of goats! My question is, were the goats oiled?