I found wim.

geni · 1st November 2005, 09:30 AM

and a new homeopathy forum:

http://www.homeocurecenter.com/

Anders W. Bonde · 1st November 2005, 05:42 PM

*bump*

logical muse · 1st November 2005, 09:22 PM

I don't know who this Wim is, but I had a look over at that forum.

There are threads there of people with ailments, asking for homoeopathetic remedies. Response to treatments seems to range from "I feel much better now" to "I'm getting worse". I paraphrase, and my bold.

The people who get worse are at fault for not stopping treatment when told, or otherwise not following instructions.

Despite treatments not working, people seem genuinely grateful to Mr. Wim.

On TV last night there was a show about recycled sewage water for drinking. Maybe with one or two parts per million of poo this water would make a good homoeopathetic cure for sprouting crap?

Zep · 2nd November 2005, 01:45 AM

The blindest leading the blind...

Darat · 2nd November 2005, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by geni

and a new homeopathy forum:

http://www.homeocurecenter.com/

Looks like it is another one created by our friends from Pakistan.

Darat · 2nd November 2005, 02:06 AM

And with "fair use" in mind:

A look at one of the posted complaints and request for a treatment:

Quote:

From: http://www.homeocurecenter.com/index.php?showtopic=602 A description of someone turning their foot and the pain developing later.

...snip...

the pain is very stiff on the right side of the foot with nausea.
I cannot put any weight on the front of the foot, but can more or less hobble on the heel.

does not get any better with movement, and arnica 5C taken 4 times uptil now is no good.

I need to be able to get home and drive home an hour from now, and even if i make it tonite, what will it be like tomorrow morning?
so what else could work on this?
thanks everyone.....

Now considering that we are often taken to task about how homeopaths only ever treat the whole patient that it is not a matter of treating a symptom, that a homeopathic treatment can only ever be "prescribed" after a lengthy and thorough consultation you would expect the homeopaths on their forum to mention all this and explain why they couldn't possibly recommend a treatment...

From Wim P

Quote:

...snip...

First try Ruta graveolens 30c or lower, 3-4 times a day till improvement.

...snip...

So no hesitation in making a diagnosis and prescribing a remedy based on a single forum post. Also note the fantastic "3-4 times a day till improvement"!

And there is more:

Quote:

From Wim P again

...snip...

Perhaps you can get Spiriflor (VSM) in Belgium to apply externally 3 times a day as well.

...snip...

So lets try something else as well and at the same time, something is bound to work...

But hey they don’t all agree:

Quote:

Homeopath Dr. Furqan A Syed
...snip...

Its Rhus Tox -200 in evening and Arnica - 200 in morning for three to four consective days.

Remember Arnica is for the the injury and Rhus is for the Sprains. Take both ! You ll be fine in two days.

...snip...

What I find amazing is not even that they seemingly contradict one another but the fact that his own instructions contradict what he says "for three to four consective days" and "You ll be fine in two days"...

It gets better mind you, because this homeopath recommends a real medical treatment as well:

Quote:

Homeopath Dr. Furqan A Syed
...snip...

The sprained ankle may get habitual to do it again. Therefore keep it tied in Crape Bandage and always open it and see it every two hourly for first three days to see for any discolorations, swellings and sepsis. If, GOD FORBIDS, there is some minor hairline fracture the discoloration(usually blues and reds) would take place in 12 to 24 hours without any reduction is swellings. Its always good to have an X-RAY done and take a report of a good radiologist.

Incase there is a hairline fracture add Symphytum-30 in afternoon for 3 to 4 days.

I am not surprised that the Pakistan press are very concerned about the proliferation of (in their words) these quacks and how they fraud their so called patients.

Zep · 2nd November 2005, 02:16 AM

Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded?

Mojo · 2nd November 2005, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by logical muse

There are threads there of people with ailments, asking for homoeopathetic remedies. Response to treatments seems to range from "I feel much better now" to "I'm getting worse". I paraphrase, and my bold.

Let me guess: if they get worse the homoeopaths call it an "aggravation" and claim that the remedy is working?

Darat · 2nd November 2005, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded?

Whatever gave you that idea? It can't have been something like "Other main remedies are : Causticum, Ledum, Rhus tox., Ruta and about 40-45 other ones."

I found one comment by Wim P to be so unintentionally ironic: "I`m afraid we haven`t got a magic remedy to take you home...."

MRC_Hans · 2nd November 2005, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded?

It is because their whole system is indistinguishable from chance.

Hans

Darat · 2nd November 2005, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

It is because their whole system is indistinguishable from chance.

Hans

Hans - I think that is quite unfair, if it was just chance occasionally they'd be prescribing something that actually could do what they say it can!

MRC_Hans · 2nd November 2005, 05:29 AM

Yeah, I know, I'm always unfair to homeopaths. Asking them to prove their claims and other obscenities. Heheh, I registered at that BB and made one innocent (if somewhat sarcastic) post in the ChitChat forum, and our Wim promptly deleted it, informing me that skeptics are not allowed to post. I can still log in, tho'.

This would be the time to register a sock, but I don't think I'll bother.

Hans

Badly Shaved Monkey · 2nd November 2005, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

This would be the time to register a sock, but I don't think I'll bother.

I have. They seem, like Hpathy, to have any requirement to provide a valid e-mail address, which makes it quicker.

Rolfe · 2nd November 2005, 02:22 PM

Wim's forever throwing out remedies at random. Did it on Hpathy, same here.

You know, I did that same ankle injury in May. About 3pm. And I had to get up and drive 250 miles 3 hours later.

I did it. No homoeopathy invloved.

I fell off my bike about 3 yards from a doctor (my cycling companion). She told me to keep my shoe on till we got back to her house, then immediately treated it with ice compresses for half an hour, then strapped it firmly in a crepe bandage. And I took some paracetamol. I was able to put my shoe back on over the bandage, and with a bit of shifting around, succeeded in accomplishing the 4 hour drive.

My ankle never actually swelled at all. I kept it strapped up and used a walking stick, and although it did take 6-8 weeks to full recovery, I never had to stop driving and wasn't forced to change my schedule at all because of the injury. I was amazed how much difference it made having a real doctor telling me what to do with it from the minute it happened (compared to lots of other times I'd had similar injuries as a child, and not presented for medical care until my foot was swollen like a balloon).

The advice was simple. It's probably in first aid books for anyone who's interested. But the homs can't even manage that, just take a sugar pill, no take a different sugar pill and so on.

One track minds.

Rolfe.

Rolfe · 2nd November 2005, 02:28 PM

Good grief, I just read the thread about the cat with FIP and Wim actually gave correct advice (that the disease is fatal and untreatable). When did he fit in the vet course since we last saw him? (Or has he just got the nous to recognise that it's not good tactics to claim you can help for a disease with a guaranteed fatal outcome?)

Rolfe.

1st November 2005, 09:30 AM	#1
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,559	I found wim. and a new homeopathy forum: http://www.homeocurecenter.com/

1st November 2005, 05:42 PM	#2
Anders W. Bonde Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: East Jutland, Denmark Posts: 467	bump
	__________________ Anders W. Bonde

1st November 2005, 09:22 PM	#3
logical muse LogMu Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,082	I don't know who this Wim is, but I had a look over at that forum. There are threads there of people with ailments, asking for homoeopathetic remedies. Response to treatments seems to range from "I feel much better now" to "I'm getting worse". I paraphrase, and my bold. The people who get worse are at fault for not stopping treatment when told, or otherwise not following instructions. Despite treatments not working, people seem genuinely grateful to Mr. Wim. On TV last night there was a show about recycled sewage water for drinking. Maybe with one or two parts per million of poo this water would make a good homoeopathetic cure for sprouting crap?
logical muse LogMu Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,082	__________________ how to spell definitely evolution is not just a theory "Far from terminating the vicious regress, God aggravates it with a vengeance." -- Richard Dawkins

2nd November 2005, 01:45 AM	#4
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	The blindest leading the blind...
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

2nd November 2005, 01:51 AM	#5
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by geni and a new homeopathy forum: http://www.homeocurecenter.com/ Looks like it is another one created by our friends from Pakistan.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd November 2005, 02:06 AM	#6
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	And with "fair use" in mind: A look at one of the posted complaints and request for a treatment: Quote: From: http://www.homeocurecenter.com/index.php?showtopic=602 A description of someone turning their foot and the pain developing later. ...snip... the pain is very stiff on the right side of the foot with nausea. I cannot put any weight on the front of the foot, but can more or less hobble on the heel. does not get any better with movement, and arnica 5C taken 4 times uptil now is no good. I need to be able to get home and drive home an hour from now, and even if i make it tonite, what will it be like tomorrow morning? so what else could work on this? thanks everyone..... Now considering that we are often taken to task about how homeopaths only ever treat the whole patient that it is not a matter of treating a symptom, that a homeopathic treatment can only ever be "prescribed" after a lengthy and thorough consultation you would expect the homeopaths on their forum to mention all this and explain why they couldn't possibly recommend a treatment... From Wim P Quote: ...snip... First try Ruta graveolens 30c or lower, 3-4 times a day till improvement. ...snip... So no hesitation in making a diagnosis and prescribing a remedy based on a single forum post. Also note the fantastic "3-4 times a day till improvement"! And there is more: Quote: From Wim P again ...snip... Perhaps you can get Spiriflor (VSM) in Belgium to apply externally 3 times a day as well. ...snip... So lets try something else as well and at the same time, something is bound to work... But hey they don’t all agree: Quote: Homeopath Dr. Furqan A Syed ...snip... Its Rhus Tox -200 in evening and Arnica - 200 in morning for three to four consective days. Remember Arnica is for the the injury and Rhus is for the Sprains. Take both ! You ll be fine in two days. ...snip... What I find amazing is not even that they seemingly contradict one another but the fact that his own instructions contradict what he says "for three to four consective days" and "You ll be fine in two days"... It gets better mind you, because this homeopath recommends a real medical treatment as well: Quote: Homeopath Dr. Furqan A Syed ...snip... The sprained ankle may get habitual to do it again. Therefore keep it tied in Crape Bandage and always open it and see it every two hourly for first three days to see for any discolorations, swellings and sepsis. If, GOD FORBIDS, there is some minor hairline fracture the discoloration(usually blues and reds) would take place in 12 to 24 hours without any reduction is swellings. Its always good to have an X-RAY done and take a report of a good radiologist. Incase there is a hairline fracture add Symphytum-30 in afternoon for 3 to 4 days. I am not surprised that the Pakistan press are very concerned about the proliferation of (in their words) these quacks and how they fraud their so called patients.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd November 2005, 02:16 AM	#7
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded?
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

2nd November 2005, 02:37 AM	#8
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,089	Originally Posted by logical muse There are threads there of people with ailments, asking for homoeopathetic remedies. Response to treatments seems to range from "I feel much better now" to "I'm getting worse". I paraphrase, and my bold. Let me guess: if they get worse the homoeopaths call it an "aggravation" and claim that the remedy is working?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

2nd November 2005, 02:45 AM	#9
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by Zep Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded? Whatever gave you that idea? It can't have been something like "Other main remedies are : Causticum, Ledum, Rhus tox., Ruta and about 40-45 other ones." I found one comment by Wim P to be so unintentionally ironic: "I`m afraid we haven`t got a magic remedy to take you home...."
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd November 2005, 02:58 AM	#10
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,600	Originally Posted by Zep Why do I get the impression they put a list of their pills and potions on a dartboard and choose them by throwing darts blindfolded? It is because their whole system is indistinguishable from chance. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

2nd November 2005, 03:07 AM	#11
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans It is because their whole system is indistinguishable from chance. Hans Hans - I think that is quite unfair, if it was just chance occasionally they'd be prescribing something that actually could do what they say it can!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd November 2005, 05:29 AM	#12
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,600	Yeah, I know, I'm always unfair to homeopaths. Asking them to prove their claims and other obscenities. Heheh, I registered at that BB and made one innocent (if somewhat sarcastic) post in the ChitChat forum, and our Wim promptly deleted it, informing me that skeptics are not allowed to post. I can still log in, tho'. This would be the time to register a sock, but I don't think I'll bother. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

2nd November 2005, 10:34 AM	#13
Badly Shaved Monkey Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Outside a banana and far from a razor Posts: 5,262	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans This would be the time to register a sock, but I don't think I'll bother. I have. They seem, like Hpathy, to have any requirement to provide a valid e-mail address, which makes it quicker.
	__________________ "i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.

2nd November 2005, 02:22 PM	#14
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,327	Wim's forever throwing out remedies at random. Did it on Hpathy, same here. You know, I did that same ankle injury in May. About 3pm. And I had to get up and drive 250 miles 3 hours later. I did it. No homoeopathy invloved. I fell off my bike about 3 yards from a doctor (my cycling companion). She told me to keep my shoe on till we got back to her house, then immediately treated it with ice compresses for half an hour, then strapped it firmly in a crepe bandage. And I took some paracetamol. I was able to put my shoe back on over the bandage, and with a bit of shifting around, succeeded in accomplishing the 4 hour drive. My ankle never actually swelled at all. I kept it strapped up and used a walking stick, and although it did take 6-8 weeks to full recovery, I never had to stop driving and wasn't forced to change my schedule at all because of the injury. I was amazed how much difference it made having a real doctor telling me what to do with it from the minute it happened (compared to lots of other times I'd had similar injuries as a child, and not presented for medical care until my foot was swollen like a balloon). The advice was simple. It's probably in first aid books for anyone who's interested. But the homs can't even manage that, just take a sugar pill, no take a different sugar pill and so on. One track minds. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

2nd November 2005, 02:28 PM	#15
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,327	Good grief, I just read the thread about the cat with FIP and Wim actually gave correct advice (that the disease is fatal and untreatable). When did he fit in the vet course since we last saw him? (Or has he just got the nous to recognise that it's not good tactics to claim you can help for a disease with a guaranteed fatal outcome?) Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.