Natural hallucinogens

[Piscivore]

What is the most powerful naturally occuring (i.e. one that does not require a high level of technology to process) hallucinogen we know of? How about any that have a potentially very long shelf life?

[Melendwyr]

Technically, there are LSD-like compounds that are produced by ergot molds, so I suppose they would be "natural".

Nutmeg is quite a powerful hallucinogen, if you define "power" as referring to the potency of the experience and not how small an active dose is.

[Bowser]

There is some interesting stuff in the nightshade family. Like the Daturas (e.g., jimsonweed). No processing required, but it could kill ya.

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant36.htm

[Piscivore]

How much nutmeg do you need to hallucinate?!?

This explains some things about my grandmother's cooking...

This info is for my latest NANOWRIMO effort. Small doses good, long lasting experience good. Extremely long shelf life or indefinitely renewable vital.

[PatKelley]

Originally Posted by Melendwyr

Technically, there are LSD-like compounds that are produced by ergot molds, so I suppose they would be "natural".

Yep- even survives cooking!

Baked into the bread of peasants in France, it gave us St. Vitus' Dance!

Ergotism has nasty side-effects, however, including rotting in face and hands.

Quote:

Nutmeg is quite a powerful hallucinogen, if you define "power" as referring to the potency of the experience and not how small an active dose is.

There are a few mushroom varieties which can be dried and saved, but experimenting with mushrooms is very risky business.

[tracer]

Nutmeg? Bah humbug. Give me good old-fashioned psilocybin mushrooms or peyote cactus any day!

[Melendwyr]

Originally Posted by Piscivore

How much nutmeg do you need to hallucinate?!?

Behold ye and despair! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg

[CBL4]

Just to quote from emphasize Melendwyr's link:

Quote:

In low doses, nutmeg produces no noticeable effect on the mind or body. Large doses of 7.5 g or more are dangerous, potentially producing convulsions, palpitations, nausea, eventual dehydration, and generalized body pain. In amounts of 10 g or more it is a mild to medium hallucinogen, producing visual distortions and a mild euphoria similar to that derived from Marijuana. However, use of nutmeg as a recreational drug is unpopular, due to the potential painful physical side effects, the risk of Nutmeg Psychosis (see below) and the inconventiently long span for which the effects of a single dose can persist. A user will not expereince a peak until approximately twelve hours after ingestion, and effects can linger for up to an additional twenty-four hours afterwards. Any unpleasant side-effects would persist throughout this thirty-six hour period.

A risk of any large-quantity ingestion of Nutmeg is the sudden onset of Nutmeg Psychosis, an acute psychiatric disorder marked by hallucinations, excitement, thought disorder, a sense of impending death and agitation. Some cases have resulted in hospitalization and reportedly few who have experienced the effects of nutmeg poisoning recommend it or repeat the experience.

Even in smaller doses, Nutmeg can be a toxic substance.

Does not sound pleasant.

Of course, I did not like my one hallucinatory experience which came from nyquil. I took the recommended dose but apparently I am very sensitive. Perhaps if I had been healthy and knew hallucinations were possible, I would have a different attitude.

CBL

[Piscivore]

Originally Posted by CBL4

Just to quote from emphasize Melendwyr's link:
Does not sound pleasant.

Of course, I did not like my one hallucinatory experience which came from nyquil. I took the recommended dose but apparently I am very sensitive. Perhaps if I had been healthy and knew hallucinations were possible, I would have a different attitude.

CBL

I took a whole Percocet one time, when I was suffering a kidney stone, and got stuck in front of a Sid and Marty Kroft marathon. I don't know that I actually hallucinated, but it was a pretty messed up trip.

Can a viral infection cause hallucinations, and can a virus remain dormant but still infectious for a few centuries?

[RyanRoberts]

Salvia divinorum's active component, Salvinorin A is the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen. It has a long history of traditional use by a Mexican indigenous people, the Matatecs. The traditional method of consumption is very inefficient, they ingest large ammounts of the leaves. It's far more potent when smoked using a high temperature flame.

Quote:

Salvinorin A is responsible for Salvia's mind-altering effects. It is not chemically related to any other psychoactive drug. Unlike most visionary compounds, it is not an alkaloid. Pure salvinorin A is extremely potent. Doses of only several hundred micrograms (millionths of a gram) will have an effect, and doses above 1 milligram (1/1000 of a gram) are too much for most people to handle comfortably. Because of its extreme potency, pure salvinorin A should never be used unless the dosage has been precisely measured with an extremely accurate chemist's scale.

From w w w . sagewisdom . org/ usersguide.html (Not allowed to do links yet - hence formatting)

It's perfectly legal too, except in Australia and Denmark. I have a windowsill full.

Oh, and first post. Hope I don't give the wrong impression

[luchog]

Many of the more potent natural hallucinogens available are from the psilocybe family of mushrooms; particularly the hard to find Psilocybe cyanescens, which is native to the Pacific Northwest, and is considerably more potent than the more commonly found P. cubensis or Paneolus spp. (aka. liberty caps).

Psilocybe spp are also considerably safer than the Amanita mushrooms, which may or may not be more potently hallucinogenic, depending on who you talk to.

There's a lot of good info on just about every recreational drug available at http://www.erowid.org/

You have to read carefully, however; since a lot of the information is highly subjective (but clearly marked as such).

[Soapy Sam]

Talisker 100.

[Jas]

I second/third/whatever the vote for mushrooms.

ETA:

PS - grind them up quite fine, and keep them in chocolate 'pucks' in the freezer. They last longer, and you skip the nasty taste.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Piscivore

What is the most powerful naturally occuring (i.e. one that does not require a high level of technology to process) hallucinogen we know of?

That's easy! The mushrooms my buddy ate at the 1993 Chicago Grateful Dead show.

Ran out of the stadium in the first set, convinced he was underwater and that people were chasing him.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Interesting question, I dont know if forum members get scared with talking about hallucinogens, but, do you want to try something? Mushrooms are different from zone to zone, so you will have to make your own research about whats available where you live. (if this is what you want, of course).

[Babe from Missouri]

Originally Posted by RyanRoberts

Salvia divinorum's active component, Salvinorin A is the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen. It has a long history of traditional use by a Mexican indigenous people, the Matatecs. The traditional method of consumption is very inefficient, they ingest large ammounts of the leaves. It's far more potent when smoked using a high temperature flame.



From w w w . sagewisdom . org/ usersguide.html (Not allowed to do links yet - hence formatting)

It's perfectly legal too, except in Australia and Denmark. I have a windowsill full.

Oh, and first post. Hope I don't give the wrong impression

I was gonna say Salvia too. http://www.sagewisdom.org/

It's legal, too. It's supposed to be a short (45 minutes) but intense trip.

[Boo]

I've treated more than a few people for jimson weed induced trips. It's readily available off the side of the road in the southwest US and pretty much any method of ingestion works from smoking to chewingf to making a tea. It has some fairly nasty physical side effects that go along with the trip, and is very easy to overdose on.


Know what you're going into, have a sober guide and be prepared for any physical emergencies. If things go bad it's much better to be honest than try to lie. That's how people die.



Boo

[Dymanic]

Originally Posted by Boo

Know what you're going into

I don't recall ever meeting anyone who did Jimson weed more than about once. This suggests that anyone that really knew what they'd be getting into wouldn't touch the stuff. Along with about half the things I did when I was a dumbass kid, you couldn't pay me enough to do it again. (Strychnine poisoning can cause hallucinations too; maybe it's a good thing nobody ever told me that).

Quote:

have a sober guide

Yes. You will need such a person later on to tell you what was really happening while you were petting those big fluffy kitties you saw (and help you find your clothes, and maybe arrange bail).

Quote:

and be prepared for any physical emergencies.

Physical emergencies like difficulty getting through doorways (due to the fact that they are actually walls). Also be prepared for physical inconveniences, such as the possibility that some of the toilets you used during your adventure weren't really there either.

Quote:

It has some fairly nasty physical side effects that go along with the trip

Among these, the one you're most likely to notice is the thirst. Not just thirst though, a thirst like nothing you've ever experienced in your life. Water won't touch it, orange juice won't touch it, beer won't touch it.

Quote:

If things go bad it's much better to be honest than try to lie.

Yes, so when bushes and lampposts start turning into ugly little gnomes, be sure to answer truthfully any questions they happen to ask you.

[Starthinker]

Here's the best way to get a very, very intense but very, very short-lived natural high which will take you to dimensions you never dreamed of. First, eat a whole bag of Oreos, not the double-stuff kind, the regular kind. Then, eat a whole box of Cheerios, milk optional. Then, wait 1 full day, 24 hours. By this time the urge to relieve yourself should be overwhelming, and I don't mean urination. Sit on a toilet and tense up all your muscles. It should come out very hard, what I call the Oreo Plug, then come out very easy, the Cheerio Deluge. Throw your head back and breath out as hard as you can. It all takes very precise timing. The resulting sudden emptying of your bowels, the drop in blood pressure, and other combined effects will launch all kinds of stuff at your brain, all at one time if you timed it all right. You will then burst into several dimensions and see colors and shapes that don't exist in this world. You will float for an eternity and see all of creation from a god's point of view but all in just a few seconds.

You will probably wake up on the floor, with your pants around your ankles and a bit of a mess to clean up, but don't all highs end like that? I have a nice big scar over my right eye after waking up with a towel rack impaled in my forehead that got ripped off the wall somehow after actually witnessing two galaxies colliding.

[Piscivore]

Originally Posted by Bodhi Dharma Zen

do you want to try something?

Nope, need an agent to drive a plot point. I'm crazy enough without chemical assistance.

[rustypouch]

Interesting topic. Mind you, I have no experience in this.

And definately nothing involving eating mushrooms just before we hit the border, just to get rid of them, and having them kick in at the first truck stop we hit.

[joobie]

many people have trouble achieving a 'breakthrough' on salvia.

besides that the most powerful naturally occuring hallucinogen would probably be dmt. this of course is assuming by 'powerful' you mean potentcy by weight - any one of them has potential to be quite intense, be it mushrooms or morning glory seeds.

(jimson weed/datura is not considered a hallucinogen by most of the folks into this sort of thing, as a side note.)

[kmortis]

along the lines of jimsom, there's always belladonna. just the lethal dose is just above what you need to take to :see god:, so you'd better hope that teaspoon IS calibrated afterall.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Piscivore

What is the most powerful naturally occuring (i.e. one that does not require a high level of technology to process) hallucinogen we know of? How about any that have a potentially very long shelf life?

Can costly GEMS, GOLD etc. be thought?

[CaveDave]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Can costly GEMS, GOLD etc. be thought?

And your babble means what precisely?

Dave

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by CaveDave

And your babble means what precisely?

Dave

most powerful, Naturally occuring, hallucinogens(which shake our mind),we know of & that have a potentially very long shelf life.

Do all above what you asked, match with my post, precisely directly or indirectly?

[CaveDave]

Originally Posted by Boo

I've treated more than a few people for jimson weed induced trips. It's readily available off the side of the road in the southwest US and pretty much any method of ingestion works from smoking to chewingf to making a tea. It has some fairly nasty physical side effects that go along with the trip, and is very easy to overdose on.


Know what you're going into, have a sober guide and be prepared for any physical emergencies. If things go bad it's much better to be honest than try to lie. That's how people die.

Originally Posted by Dynamic :

Quote:

Know what you're going into
I don't recall ever meeting anyone who did Jimson weed more than about once. This suggests that anyone that really knew what they'd be getting into wouldn't touch the stuff. Along with about half the things I did when I was a dumbass kid, you couldn't pay me enough to do it again. (Strychnine poisoning can cause hallucinations too; maybe it's a good thing nobody ever told me that).

have a sober guide
Yes. You will need such a person later on to tell you what was really happening while you were petting those big fluffy kitties you saw (and help you find your clothes, and maybe arrange bail).

and be prepared for any physical emergencies.
Physical emergencies like difficulty getting through doorways (due to the fact that they are actually walls). Also be prepared for physical inconveniences, such as the possibility that some of the toilets you used during your adventure weren't really there either.

It has some fairly nasty physical side effects that go along with the trip
Among these, the one you're most likely to notice is the thirst. Not just thirst though, a thirst like nothing you've ever experienced in your life. Water won't touch it, orange juice won't touch it, beer won't touch it.

If things go bad it's much better to be honest than try to lie.
Yes, so when bushes and lampposts start turning into ugly little gnomes, be sure to answer truthfully any questions they happen to ask you.

BTDT---We called it ^gourd seeds^, the golf-ball-sized soft-spined green pods produced maybe one tablespoon of flat whitish seeds, eat them only if you have three days to lose and a good babysitter to keep you out of serious danger. I *garauntee* you won't be able to save yourself from trouble. Three days later, when you come back to reality, you'll wish you'd never heard of the stuff. Take my word, or be a fool.

One other candidate is called "ToadBack":
(1) Make that thumb-over-fist gesture that Bill Clinton favored
(2) Lift the thumb
(3) Place a large (baseball sized) toad's chin on the curled index finger
(4) Clamp the thumb on the top of the toad's snout
(5) Proceed to thump, slap, shake, and otherwise irritate, annoy, or abuse the toad
(6) When you see the little droplets of liquid appear on the skin behind the head, extract them (wipe off on cigarette paper to be smoked, lick them off and swallow, or snort them up your nose through a skinny straw
(7) Find a safe place to stay for awhile and let the trip proceed

Dave

PS--- I gave this stuff up years ago 'cuz I'd already had too much FUN for any one human being to enjoy.

[CaveDave]

Originally Posted by Kumar

most powerful, Naturally occuring, hallucinogens(which shake our mind),we know of & that have a potentially very long shelf life.

Do all above what you asked, match with my post, precisely directly or indirectly?

Are you hallucinating now? Regularly?

If not, how do you write the stuff you do?

Dave

[Alphaba]

Originally Posted by Piscivore

What is the most powerful naturally occuring (i.e. one that does not require a high level of technology to process) hallucinogen we know of? How about any that have a potentially very long shelf life?

In terms of efficacy (rather than potency which is only about the dose size), specificity (i.e. mostly psychedelic), duration of effects, intensity of mental imagery stimulation, and shelf life, the best candidates are mescaline-containing cacti, and more specifically of the Trichocereus genus (popular names: San Pedro, Peruvian torch).

Contrary to mushrooms containing 4-substituted N-dimethylated tryptamines, that decay rapidly or loose potency, the dried cacti retain full potency during extended periods of time. Péyotl (Lophophora williamsii) buttons aged 5,700 years were shown to contain still 2% mescaline (eating 25 g of these buttons would suffice for a full blown visionary experience) (PubMed abstract; another, related ref).

I would nonetheless not choose péyotl because when fresh it contains tens of different alkaloids, some having weird or soporific effects. By contrast, the Peruvian cacti, even if having mescaline concentrations slightly lower than péyotl, are almost devoid of other alkaloids in the part containing mescaline.

[Nucular]

Originally Posted by Melendwyr

Behold ye and despair! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg

Hmmm, that explains my experience with nutmeg, some years ago as an undergrad.

Made sure I had a free day, took the requisite amount mixed into a foul, awful drink. Trying not to vomit, I sat with a big grin on my face, waiting for 'something' to happen. My grin slowly faded over the course of the day, until I finally admitted to myself that the peculiar feeling I had was simply that I'd imbibed a revolting beverage that was slightly upsetting my stomach.

Went to bed after a boring day, slightly disappointed.

Woke up the next day to find I'd slept in longer than normal. After very slowly getting up and ready, I realised I was feeling very strange. I drifted round my student halls, watching people talk but not really being - able is the wrong word - bothered to work out what they were saying.

There was a pane of glass a foot thick between me and the rest of the world. No hallucinations, no revelations, no pixies, ghosts, deities or aliens. No Nirvana, heaven, hell or nagual.

Just a vaguely unpleasant dissociative feeling that lingered for the whole day. Heavy eyelids, a puzzled expression, and an annoying feeling that I wasn't in a separate reality, I just wasn't allowed into the normal one for a while.

I didn't really like being inside, but I liked being outside slightly less, so I watched the day grow dark over the course of several hours from my window, with a fidgety feeling of meaninglessness in the place of the lysergic sense of significance I'd hoped for.

I went to bed early, irritated in the knowledge that I'd wasted a whole day. If I'd known the most that would come out of that day would be that I'd write it down on an internet bulletin board 8 years hence, and that no-one would read to the end of it anyway, I'd have been entirely unsurprised.

If you want to emulate the experience of nutmeg psychedelia, clear a day to alphabetise your cd collection, and sit in your underwear watching daytime tv, not alphabetising your cd collection. That should just about capture it.

Hmmm, I seem to be having a nutmeg flashback, apologies for the tone this post has taken.

Kids: don't do nutmeg

[Piscivore]

Originally Posted by Nucular

If you want to emulate the experience of nutmeg psychedelia, clear a day to alphabetise your cd collection, and sit in your underwear watching daytime tv, not alphabetising your cd collection. That should just about capture it.

I get the same thing trying to write sometimes. Hmmm, maybe my wife is slipping me nutmeg...

[luchog]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Talisker 100.

Mushrooms are cheaper.

Hell, snorting powdered gold from the thighs of virgin Asian prostitutes is probably cheaper.

[Jas]

Originally Posted by rustypouch

And definately nothing involving eating mushrooms just before we hit the border, just to get rid of them, and having them kick in at the first truck stop we hit.

Oh, here's a hint - if you're not going to eat mushrooms, a good place not to go on a mushroom trip is during the summer when you're not breaking into the pool at Riley Park at two in the morning.

[Flange Desire]

Pisco, for your literary needs I would suggest Salvia Divin.
It has many features that might fit well - novelty, potency, etc.
As for shelf life, I doubt that the leaf would last long,
but the extract Salvorin A (sounds like a Prep H suppository to me) should store quite OK.

[Betenoire]

Love?

[Piscivore]

Originally Posted by Betenoire

Love?

Best answer yet

[Starrman]

So, do these things damage your brain in order bring about the experiences? What are the health risks to taking some of these things?

And yes, I'm too lazy to look it up myself.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Originally Posted by Piscivore

This info is for my latest NANOWRIMO effort. Small doses good, long lasting experience good. Extremely long shelf life or indefinitely renewable vital.

So, you're writing about people who get stonned in the far future, after giant mushroom men, which mutated from the benign fungi after being irradiated by a nuclear war, took over the Earth?