Granny Shoots Intruder - 911 Call

schplurg · 12th November 2005, 02:56 AM

I heard this on the radio while driving to work this morning and cheered out loud in my car!

I couldn't find any written story to go with it, just this audio/video of the 911 call.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1303012

You can hear the grandmother in the background yelling at the intruder to stay down while the daughter(?) is on the phone. You can also hear her shoot him a couple of times and her shouts that the cops better get there or she'd kill him! My favorite quote...

"How dare you come in my house you lousy son of a b****!!!"

This story made my day. Cheers!!!

username · 12th November 2005, 05:24 AM

This was hilarious, thanks for sharing. BLAM "Is she still shooting him? Tell your grandma to please stop shooting him, I have help on the way" BLAM!

The Central Scrutinizer · 12th November 2005, 07:38 AM

Mycroft · 12th November 2005, 09:49 AM

She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call?

WildCat · 12th November 2005, 09:54 AM

It was reported on the radio news here that one of grandma's classmates in grade school was Lee Harvey Oswald.

Ladewig · 12th November 2005, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mycroft

She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call?

I'll go even further and say that your statement is so correct that it doesn't even need a smiley.

The Central Scrutinizer · 12th November 2005, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

It was reported on the radio news here that one of grandma's classmates in grade school was Lee Harvey Oswald.

How is that relevant? We all know Oswald didn't shoot JFK. He was a patsy.

Boo · 12th November 2005, 03:21 PM

Hmmm, I wonder, will the probable conviction or being shot be the greater influence on his not continuing life of crime?

Boo

Pope130 · 12th November 2005, 03:25 PM

Boo,
I'd say the combination of spending any time on the inside with the widespread knowledge that he was shot and (citizens) arrested by Granny should act as a deterent to his criminal career.

Robert

CFLarsen · 13th November 2005, 12:24 AM

.......and?

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

.......and?

And what?

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mycroft

She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call?

She had already shot him in the leg. the guy was on the ground and at most was trying to flee out the door. Granny cant hunt the guy for sport!

Ralph · 13th November 2005, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

She had already shot him in the leg. the guy was on the ground and at most was trying to flee out the door. Granny cant hunt the guy for sport!

How was the 911 operator able to know this?

He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny.

Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry.

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ralph

How was the 911 operator able to know this?

He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny.

Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry.

And He couldve been a boyscott trying to warn granny that her chimmney was on fire. Cept he wasnt and thats why hes in jail.

But if granny popped another cap in the guy while he was laid out on the lawn, shed be the one in jail.

CFLarsen · 13th November 2005, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

And what?

Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what?

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 08:19 AM

Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.

Hutch · 13th November 2005, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ralph

How was the 911 operator able to know this?

He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny.

Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry.

All true. In defense of the 9-11 operator, this is probably a 'standard' response that they are either trained or told to give. My guess (and that is all it is) is that with bullets flying around the chance of someone else being hurt or that the police/first responders will see/hear gunshots and perhaps a tragedy could occur is the foremost concern.

Still, if the guy was possibly armed and still moving, can't blame granny for blasting away.

RandFan · 13th November 2005, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.

No, my cousins and I trespassed through someones property once and we were escorted out at gun point. Scared me to death. What we did absolutely did not warrant shooting.

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.

Hoping thru someone's yard or into their pool is different than popping up in their living room.

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

No, my cousins and I trespassed through someones property once and we were escorted out at gun point. Scared me to death. What we did absolutely did not warrant shooting.

And no shooting occured.

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what?

And people applaud! Or at least it looks that way so far.

RandFan · 13th November 2005, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

And no shooting occured.

No, it simply underscored the point to me that shooting was certainly possible and it would have been wrong.

FWIW, the gun was entirely unnecassary. My cousins and I were only in elementary school. We hardly posed a threat to a grown man.

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

No, it simply underscored the point to me that shooting was certainly possible and it would have been wrong.

Agreed.

Freakshow · 13th November 2005, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.

Yards? No.

But INSIDE my house? You will very likely find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun. If you aren't presenting some sort of immediate threat (such as being armed yourself, or acting in a violent manner), I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you."

The purporse of such commands is to get you in a place where I can get to a phone to call the police, while observing you and keeping a gun on you the entire time, and knowing that you are unable to interfere or attack me while I do so.

You will have one chance to comply with the commands without getting shot. Any refusal to comply with my commands...and I can't guarantee you're not getting shot.

WildCat · 13th November 2005, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Freakshow

Yards? No.

But INSIDE my house? You will very likely find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun. If you aren't presenting some sort of immediate threat (such as being armed yourself, or acting in a violent manner), I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you."

The purporse of such commands is to get you in a place where I can get to a phone to call the police, while observing you and keeping a gun on you the entire time, and knowing that you are unable to interfere or attack me while I do so.

You will have one chance to comply with the commands without getting shot. Any refusal to comply with my commands...and I can't guarantee you're not getting shot.

This reminds me of what I did one day when I was 17. A friend was having a party, and I went outside to my car to get a tape we wanted to listen to. I grabbed the tape, and went back inside. I went down the basement stairs, but everything was dark. Ah, I thought, they're playing a joke on me. "Very funny!" I yelled. Silence. Then an unfamiliar voice from upstairs "Who's there?" It suddenly dawned on me that on this street of identical brick bungalows I had entered the wrong house! I was not there to rob or steal, but I was worried the occupants would shoot first and ask questions later. I ran out the door, and in my panic went the wrong direction. I hid next to the house next door, and I could see the other home owner run outside armed not w/ a gun but a bat. He went in the back yard, I ran back to the front and to the correct house and through the door. Safe at last... I still shudder to this day thinking how that situation could have turned out. If only that guy had locked his door!

Bottom line, I wouldn't shoot an intruder unless he was a direct threat to me. If he came at me sure, but I know from experience that things aren't always what they seem.

The Central Scrutinizer · 13th November 2005, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Freakshow

...I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you."

Strangely, this turned me on.

Freakshow · 13th November 2005, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

This reminds me of what I did one day when I was 17. A friend was having a party, and I went outside to my car to get a tape we wanted to listen to. I grabbed the tape, and went back inside. I went down the basement stairs, but everything was dark. Ah, I thought, they're playing a joke on me. "Very funny!" I yelled. Silence. Then an unfamiliar voice from upstairs "Who's there?" It suddenly dawned on me that on this street of identical brick bungalows I had entered the wrong house! I was not there to rob or steal, but I was worried the occupants would shoot first and ask questions later. I ran out the door, and in my panic went the wrong direction. I hid next to the house next door, and I could see the other home owner run outside armed not w/ a gun but a bat. He went in the back yard, I ran back to the front and to the correct house and through the door. Safe at last... I still shudder to this day thinking how that situation could have turned out. If only that guy had locked his door!

Bottom line, I wouldn't shoot an intruder unless he was a direct threat to me. If he came at me sure, but I know from experience that things aren't always what they seem.

Exactly. Which is why I'm not just going to start spraying upon seeing someone in my house. I would if they were doing something very threatening. But someone wandering through my house...my first objective is to gain total control over them, to wait for the police. I prefer lethal force as my backup, as I do not know exactly what level of threat this person presents to me, or how immune they might be to less-than-lethal force. With so many unknowns, I need to go directly to the use of lethal force as my backup to issuing commands to the intruder.

Freakshow · 13th November 2005, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Strangely, this turned me on.

I'll send you my price-list. I'm not cheap, and you have to pay all my travel expenses.

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Hoping thru someone's yard or into their pool is different than popping up in their living room.

Hows that? By a couple dozen feet?

I believe the 2nd shot tool place outsider her house.

I have know problem with what Granny did. But when I saw the story and heard the 2nd shot, I figured she murdered the guy. Fortunatly she shot up into the air. But even with a home invader, if you have him subduded and the situation under control you dont have the right to shoot the guy in cold blood.

Freakshow · 13th November 2005, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Hows that? By a couple dozen feet?

I believe the 2nd shot tool place outsider her house.

I have know problem with what Granny did. But when I saw the story and heard the 2nd shot, I figured she murdered the guy. Fortunatly she shot up into the air. But even with a home invader, if you have him subduded and the situation under control you dont have the right to shoot the guy in cold blood.

It is different by the fact that there is a clear barrier: walls and doors/windows. There is an obvious psychological difference in crossing that barrier, in that it demonstrates more deliberate intent to invade someone else's domain. It is an action of greater severity.

ETA: How do you know he was subdued and the situation was under control? He could have been still attempting to get up off the ground. It is a threatening gesture.

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Freakshow

It is different by the fact that there is a clear barrier: walls and doors/windows. There is an obvious psychological difference in crossing that barrier, in that it demonstrates more deliberate intent to invade someone else's domain. It is an action of greater severity.

ETA: How do you know he was subdued and the situation was under control? He could have been still attempting to get up off the ground. It is a threatening gesture.

He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry.

Freakshow · 13th November 2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tmy

He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry.

Did she know that? Did she shoot as he was getting up (at which point, she doesn't know why he is getting up), or had he gotten up, was already running away, and she shot him in the back?

I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I don't actually know what happened in the situation. If she shot him just as he was getting up, that is not out-of-line. There is no magical way to know why a person is continuing to resist. Yes, trying to get up off the ground is considered to be resisting.

Mycroft · 13th November 2005, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what?

You're not planning on contributing anything to this discussion, are you?

Tmy · 13th November 2005, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Freakshow

Did she know that? Did she shoot as he was getting up (at which point, she doesn't know why he is getting up), or had he gotten up, was already running away, and she shot him in the back?

I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I don't actually know what happened in the situation. If she shot him just as he was getting up, that is not out-of-line. There is no magical way to know why a person is continuing to resist. Yes, trying to get up off the ground is considered to be resisting.

Well its fact specific. In this case I know she shot him in the leg. He was aparently dragging himself out the door when the 2nd shot occured. She wanted him to freeze but he didnt.

epepke · 14th November 2005, 01:35 AM

I also like the commercial that shows first: "Microsoft Office has evolved. Have you?"

Well, it sure isn't Intelligent Design.

schplurg · 14th November 2005, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry.

The guy broke into her house, not the other way around! Two women were alone in their home and found a guy hiding in the closet (I believe that's where he was). I applaud her, sort of, for showing restraint in that she only wounded him, then fired in the air to warn him as he tried to get away. You can clearly hear her yelling at him and warning him to stay down or she would shoot him. As others have stated, he could have been going for his own gun. Or perhaps he had a partner. So what's the problem? If it was my grandmother I would ask her what kept her from blowing him away.

I wonder if he chose her particular home to invade because he knew that an elderly woman lived there. If so, imagine his surprise when this "vulnerable woman" kicked his ass!

Granny showed restraint, courage, and maybe she even sent a message to the next would-be idiot. I see no problem whatsoever in what she did. I'd like to shake her hand...that is if she said it was okay.

Ralph · 14th November 2005, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Well its fact specific. In this case I know she shot him in the leg. He was aparently dragging himself out the door when the 2nd shot occured. She wanted him to freeze but he didnt.

Just because someone has their back to you doesn't mean they're trying to run away.

They could also be running for cover and planning on returning fire.

Most states are more liberal when it comes to an intruder in the home vs. everywhere else due to the "castle" doctrine.

You have the right to use as much force as needed to stop the attacker.
Trying to get up--continuing to move when told to freeze--could all be interpreted as "he's still dangerous".

In one's own home the law will hopefully give the benefit of any doubt to the homeowner.

...and if someone can't tell the freakin difference beween an intruder in your house at 3am and a 10 year old stealing a pumpkin off the front porch then
they probably shouldn't even be allowed to own a pencil sharpener--let alone a real firearm.

Beerina · 14th November 2005, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

She had already shot him in the leg. the guy was on the ground and at most was trying to flee out the door. Granny cant hunt the guy for sport!

She can't be sure of that. She doesn't know he doesn't have a backup weapon. She doesn't know that once he's out the door he isn't gonna immediately turn around.

She did the correct thing. It's idiocy by people sitting safely in offices discussing the issue that thinks otherwise.

She should take 0% changes and just keep shooting. Why should she risk a 1% chance just to keep from killing him? Anyone? Anyone?

Beerina · 14th November 2005, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.

Yeah, gramma should have waited until the knife was slitting her throat, and his erection was sodomizing her granddaughter, and even then, soddomy is no reason to shoot at the guy.

In fact, even as the knife approached her throat, she still shouldn't shoot the guy because maybe he's just bluffing, or maybe it's a toy knife and he's just a neighborhood kid goofing around. Only once the knife penetrates the skin may gramma shoot in self defense.

In fact, not even then, because maybe it's accidental, and only when the major arteries in the neck start being punctured should she shoot, and even then, only to injur and never, never to kill.

In fact, even then probably not, because it might be an accidental throat slitting, and it's more important to not maybe kill a maybe murderer rather than save the life of a victim.

I guess the best possible outcome we could have hoped for was a murdered grandmother and a soddomized, murdered child, but with the perp still alive, as long as he waited around for the police like he should.

12th November 2005, 02:56 AM	#1
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924	Granny Shoots Intruder - 911 Call I heard this on the radio while driving to work this morning and cheered out loud in my car! I couldn't find any written story to go with it, just this audio/video of the 911 call. http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1303012 You can hear the grandmother in the background yelling at the intruder to stay down while the daughter(?) is on the phone. You can also hear her shoot him a couple of times and her shouts that the cops better get there or she'd kill him! My favorite quote... "How dare you come in my house you lousy son of a b****!!!" This story made my day. Cheers!!!
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924

12th November 2005, 05:24 AM	#2
username Muse Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	This was hilarious, thanks for sharing. BLAM "Is she still shooting him? Tell your grandma to please stop shooting him, I have help on the way" BLAM!
username Muse Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	__________________ "El sueno de la razon produce monstruos," or, "The sleep of reason produces monsters." -social critic / artist Goya

12th November 2005, 07:38 AM	#3
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

12th November 2005, 09:49 AM	#4
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,118	She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

12th November 2005, 10:07 AM	#6
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,828	Originally Posted by Mycroft She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call? I'll go even further and say that your statement is so correct that it doesn't even need a smiley.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

12th November 2005, 09:54 AM	#5
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,146	It was reported on the radio news here that one of grandma's classmates in grade school was Lee Harvey Oswald.

12th November 2005, 10:07 AM	#7
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by WildCat It was reported on the radio news here that one of grandma's classmates in grade school was Lee Harvey Oswald. How is that relevant? We all know Oswald didn't shoot JFK. He was a patsy.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

12th November 2005, 03:21 PM	#8
Boo ts Join Date: May 2003 Location: state of chaos Posts: 3,743	Hmmm, I wonder, will the probable conviction or being shot be the greater influence on his not continuing life of crime? Boo
	__________________ Wounds heal. Morally Obtuse. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.

12th November 2005, 03:25 PM	#9
Pope130 Muse Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 965	Boo, I'd say the combination of spending any time on the inside with the widespread knowledge that he was shot and (citizens) arrested by Granny should act as a deterent to his criminal career. Robert

13th November 2005, 12:24 AM	#10
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	.......and?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

13th November 2005, 06:45 AM	#11
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by CFLarsen .......and? And what?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 07:12 AM	#12
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by Mycroft She needs to stop shoting him? How can the 911 operator make that judgment call? She had already shot him in the leg. the guy was on the ground and at most was trying to flee out the door. Granny cant hunt the guy for sport!
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th November 2005, 07:31 AM	#13
Ralph Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: S.E. Mass....... Posts: 997	Originally Posted by Tmy She had already shot him in the leg. the guy was on the ground and at most was trying to flee out the door. Granny cant hunt the guy for sport! How was the 911 operator able to know this? He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny. Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry.

13th November 2005, 07:42 AM	#14
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by Ralph How was the 911 operator able to know this? He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny. Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry. And He couldve been a boyscott trying to warn granny that her chimmney was on fire. Cept he wasnt and thats why hes in jail. But if granny popped another cap in the guy while he was laid out on the lawn, shed be the one in jail.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th November 2005, 08:13 AM	#15
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer And what? Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

13th November 2005, 08:19 AM	#16
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th November 2005, 08:29 AM	#17
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,539	Originally Posted by Ralph How was the 911 operator able to know this? He could've been shot in the leg--laying on the ground--and reaching for a weapon to use against granny. Granny did well.....better to be safe than sorry. All true. In defense of the 9-11 operator, this is probably a 'standard' response that they are either trained or told to give. My guess (and that is all it is) is that with bullets flying around the chance of someone else being hurt or that the police/first responders will see/hear gunshots and perhaps a tragedy could occur is the foremost concern. Still, if the guy was possibly armed and still moving, can't blame granny for blasting away.
	__________________ If sheer righteous fury could accomplish anything worthwhile, Wolverines would have inherited the Galaxy long ago." -Web DuHavel, David Weber's "Honorverse" Series

13th November 2005, 08:36 AM	#18
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,433	Originally Posted by Tmy Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their. No, my cousins and I trespassed through someones property once and we were escorted out at gun point. Scared me to death. What we did absolutely did not warrant shooting.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

13th November 2005, 08:56 AM	#19
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by Tmy Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their. Hoping thru someone's yard or into their pool is different than popping up in their living room.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 08:57 AM	#20
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by RandFan No, my cousins and I trespassed through someones property once and we were escorted out at gun point. Scared me to death. What we did absolutely did not warrant shooting. And no shooting occured.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 08:58 AM	#21
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what? And people applaud! Or at least it looks that way so far.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 08:59 AM	#23
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by RandFan No, it simply underscored the point to me that shooting was certainly possible and it would have been wrong. Agreed.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 09:08 AM	#24
Freakshow 526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,319	Originally Posted by Tmy Are people Ok with shooting trespassers to death?? Cause I remeber being a kid. And wed hop thru peoples yards, maybe jump in a pool here n their. Yards? No. But INSIDE my house? You will very likely find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun. If you aren't presenting some sort of immediate threat (such as being armed yourself, or acting in a violent manner), I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you." The purporse of such commands is to get you in a place where I can get to a phone to call the police, while observing you and keeping a gun on you the entire time, and knowing that you are unable to interfere or attack me while I do so. You will have one chance to comply with the commands without getting shot. Any refusal to comply with my commands...and I can't guarantee you're not getting shot.

13th November 2005, 09:41 AM	#25
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,146	Originally Posted by Freakshow Yards? No. But INSIDE my house? You will very likely find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun. If you aren't presenting some sort of immediate threat (such as being armed yourself, or acting in a violent manner), I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you." The purporse of such commands is to get you in a place where I can get to a phone to call the police, while observing you and keeping a gun on you the entire time, and knowing that you are unable to interfere or attack me while I do so. You will have one chance to comply with the commands without getting shot. Any refusal to comply with my commands...and I can't guarantee you're not getting shot. This reminds me of what I did one day when I was 17. A friend was having a party, and I went outside to my car to get a tape we wanted to listen to. I grabbed the tape, and went back inside. I went down the basement stairs, but everything was dark. Ah, I thought, they're playing a joke on me. "Very funny!" I yelled. Silence. Then an unfamiliar voice from upstairs "Who's there?" It suddenly dawned on me that on this street of identical brick bungalows I had entered the wrong house! I was not there to rob or steal, but I was worried the occupants would shoot first and ask questions later. I ran out the door, and in my panic went the wrong direction. I hid next to the house next door, and I could see the other home owner run outside armed not w/ a gun but a bat. He went in the back yard, I ran back to the front and to the correct house and through the door. Safe at last... I still shudder to this day thinking how that situation could have turned out. If only that guy had locked his door! Bottom line, I wouldn't shoot an intruder unless he was a direct threat to me. If he came at me sure, but I know from experience that things aren't always what they seem.

13th November 2005, 09:45 AM	#26
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by Freakshow ...I will begin issuing you commands. The commands will be things such as "HANDS UP. TURN AROUND. TAKE 2 STEPS FORWARD...1...2...STOP. TAKE 3 SLIDING STEPS TO THE LEFT...1...2...3...STOP. TURN TO YOUR RIGHT. ON YOUR KNEES. LIE DOWN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. LACE YOUR FINGERS TOGETHER. Do not move. If you move, I WILL shoot you." Strangely, this turned me on.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

13th November 2005, 09:46 AM	#27
Freakshow 526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,319	Originally Posted by WildCat This reminds me of what I did one day when I was 17. A friend was having a party, and I went outside to my car to get a tape we wanted to listen to. I grabbed the tape, and went back inside. I went down the basement stairs, but everything was dark. Ah, I thought, they're playing a joke on me. "Very funny!" I yelled. Silence. Then an unfamiliar voice from upstairs "Who's there?" It suddenly dawned on me that on this street of identical brick bungalows I had entered the wrong house! I was not there to rob or steal, but I was worried the occupants would shoot first and ask questions later. I ran out the door, and in my panic went the wrong direction. I hid next to the house next door, and I could see the other home owner run outside armed not w/ a gun but a bat. He went in the back yard, I ran back to the front and to the correct house and through the door. Safe at last... I still shudder to this day thinking how that situation could have turned out. If only that guy had locked his door! Bottom line, I wouldn't shoot an intruder unless he was a direct threat to me. If he came at me sure, but I know from experience that things aren't always what they seem. Exactly. Which is why I'm not just going to start spraying upon seeing someone in my house. I would if they were doing something very threatening. But someone wandering through my house...my first objective is to gain total control over them, to wait for the police. I prefer lethal force as my backup, as I do not know exactly what level of threat this person presents to me, or how immune they might be to less-than-lethal force. With so many unknowns, I need to go directly to the use of lethal force as my backup to issuing commands to the intruder.

13th November 2005, 09:48 AM	#28
Freakshow 526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,319	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Strangely, this turned me on. I'll send you my price-list. I'm not cheap, and you have to pay all my travel expenses.

13th November 2005, 02:54 PM	#29
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Hoping thru someone's yard or into their pool is different than popping up in their living room. Hows that? By a couple dozen feet? I believe the 2nd shot tool place outsider her house. I have know problem with what Granny did. But when I saw the story and heard the 2nd shot, I figured she murdered the guy. Fortunatly she shot up into the air. But even with a home invader, if you have him subduded and the situation under control you dont have the right to shoot the guy in cold blood.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th November 2005, 02:55 PM	#30
Freakshow 526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,319	Originally Posted by Tmy Hows that? By a couple dozen feet? I believe the 2nd shot tool place outsider her house. I have know problem with what Granny did. But when I saw the story and heard the 2nd shot, I figured she murdered the guy. Fortunatly she shot up into the air. But even with a home invader, if you have him subduded and the situation under control you dont have the right to shoot the guy in cold blood. It is different by the fact that there is a clear barrier: walls and doors/windows. There is an obvious psychological difference in crossing that barrier, in that it demonstrates more deliberate intent to invade someone else's domain. It is an action of greater severity. ETA: How do you know he was subdued and the situation was under control? He could have been still attempting to get up off the ground. It is a threatening gesture.
	Last edited by Freakshow; 13th November 2005 at 02:57 PM.

13th November 2005, 03:20 PM	#31
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by Freakshow It is different by the fact that there is a clear barrier: walls and doors/windows. There is an obvious psychological difference in crossing that barrier, in that it demonstrates more deliberate intent to invade someone else's domain. It is an action of greater severity. ETA: How do you know he was subdued and the situation was under control? He could have been still attempting to get up off the ground. It is a threatening gesture. He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th November 2005, 03:26 PM	#32
Freakshow 526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,319	Originally Posted by Tmy He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry. Did she know that? Did she shoot as he was getting up (at which point, she doesn't know why he is getting up), or had he gotten up, was already running away, and she shot him in the back? I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I don't actually know what happened in the situation. If she shot him just as he was getting up, that is not out-of-line. There is no magical way to know why a person is continuing to resist. Yes, trying to get up off the ground is considered to be resisting.

13th November 2005, 03:48 PM	#33
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,118	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Yes, what? Granny shoots intruder. And what? You're not planning on contributing anything to this discussion, are you?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

13th November 2005, 04:09 PM	#34
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by Freakshow Did she know that? Did she shoot as he was getting up (at which point, she doesn't know why he is getting up), or had he gotten up, was already running away, and she shot him in the back? I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I don't actually know what happened in the situation. If she shot him just as he was getting up, that is not out-of-line. There is no magical way to know why a person is continuing to resist. Yes, trying to get up off the ground is considered to be resisting. Well its fact specific. In this case I know she shot him in the leg. He was aparently dragging himself out the door when the 2nd shot occured. She wanted him to freeze but he didnt.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

14th November 2005, 01:35 AM	#35
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	I also like the commercial that shows first: "Microsoft Office has evolved. Have you?" Well, it sure isn't Intelligent Design.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	__________________ "It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora "There's no evidence that the 9-11 attacks (whoever did them) were deliberately attacking civilians. On the contrary the targets appear to have been chosen as military." -DavidByron

14th November 2005, 05:30 AM	#36
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924	Originally Posted by Tmy He was trying to run away. After being shot. Eventually he did, though he didnt get far. They charged the guy with criminal trespass, not home invasion or attempted burgalry. The guy broke into her house, not the other way around! Two women were alone in their home and found a guy hiding in the closet (I believe that's where he was). I applaud her, sort of, for showing restraint in that she only wounded him, then fired in the air to warn him as he tried to get away. You can clearly hear her yelling at him and warning him to stay down or she would shoot him. As others have stated, he could have been going for his own gun. Or perhaps he had a partner. So what's the problem? If it was my grandmother I would ask her what kept her from blowing him away. I wonder if he chose her particular home to invade because he knew that an elderly woman lived there. If so, imagine his surprise when this "vulnerable woman" kicked his ass! Granny showed restraint, courage, and maybe she even sent a message to the next would-be idiot. I see no problem whatsoever in what she did. I'd like to shake her hand...that is if she said it was okay.
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924