Sharon 'set to quit Likud party'

monoman · 20th November 2005, 02:14 PM

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is set to quit his ruling Likud party and run separately in next year's elections, Israeli army radio reports. Mr Sharon reportedly made the decision to leave the party he helped to found after lengthy talks with aides.
Earlier, the moderate Labour party under new leader Amir Peretz voted to leave Mr Sharon's coalition.
Many in Likud opposed Mr Sharon's decision to pull out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank earlier this year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4455356.stm

No details as yet....

webfusion · 20th November 2005, 02:45 PM

While Sharon may very well leave the Likud, he can only do so in the framework of new elections being set in 90-days. And that seems to be about to happen...

There is no mechanism at this point in Israeli politics as a "Candidate for Prime Minister" -- it was tried for a while and dropped. The way the system is set up now, a party is formed and registered with a list of 120 candidates for Knesset. If that party passes a 'threshold' of votes in the general election, then it is given a number of seats according to the percentage of all votes. No party has ever received more than 50% of all votes, and therefore, no party has ever had an automatic parliamentary majority, and coalitions need to be arranged.

The President of Israel, after the elections are over, calls upon the head of the party with the highest number of seats, to see if he can form a coalition. If he can't do it within a specified time frame, then the task is offered to the party with the second-highest seat count. There is no such thing as "winning the job of Prime Minister" -- it is all party-politics, totally.

Arik Sharon, after he walks out of the framework of the Likud, needs to form a new party and run in elections within three months. It almost looks like he and Shimon Peres might join forces, now wouldn't that be fascinating?!!

CapelDodger · 20th November 2005, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

While Sharon may very well leave the Likud, he can only do so in the framework of new elections being set in 90-days. And that seems to be about to happen...

He can leave the Likud Party any time he wants, it's just a political party. Any Knesset member can leave his party, to join another, form their own or sit as an individual.

Quote:

There is no mechanism at this point in Israeli politics as a "Candidate for Prime Minister" -- it was tried for a while and dropped.

The system is parliamentary, not presidential, so why this was tried is anybody's guess. My guess is better than most, of course, but it's still a best guess.

Quote:

The way the system is set up now, a party is formed and registered with a list of 120 candidates for Knesset. If that party passes a 'threshold' of votes in the general election, then it is given a number of seats according to the percentage of all votes. No party has ever received more than 50% of all votes, and therefore, no party has ever had an automatic parliamentary majority, and coalitions need to be arranged.

The parties tend to be coalitions themselves, which makes the whole political scene frantically complicated. The ranking of names on the list becomes the subject of intense wrangling. Sharon's great problem with the Likud is the Party's ability to place anti-Sharon candidates high on the list, thus getting them into the Knesset, while capitalising on Sharon's personal following. He would be neutered unless he split Likud anyway after the election, but by not waiting he gets to draw up his own list.

Quote:

Arik Sharon, after he walks out of the framework of the Likud, needs to form a new party and run in elections within three months. It almost looks like he and Shimon Peres might join forces, now wouldn't that be fascinating?!!

I think his people have been preparing the groundwork for some time, don't you? It's not as if this has leapt out of the woodpile after dark. The Peres link-up has been mooted previously, but the odds have come-in sharply following Peretz's success. That would be an iconic face-off. The Old Guard - Ashkenazi nation-founders - versus the New Guard, products of that nation. How will the Eastern Mizrahim respond to a North African? How will the Russians respond? How will later-generation Ashkenazis respond to a union-leader?

Just the thing for these dark, cold winter months. I will start a generic Israeli Election thread right away.

webfusion · 20th November 2005, 05:17 PM

"Just the thing for these dark, cold winter months."

Maybe for you, it's dark and cold.

For the Israelis, it's actually quite bright and balmy on the Med.

Tel Aviv/Jaffa

webfusion · 21st November 2005, 05:38 PM

The new party will be called:
"National Responsibility" (Ahariut Leumi)

Mycroft · 21st November 2005, 08:43 PM

I wonder what those who have spent years demonizing Sharon as the maniacle right-wing nut-case make of him forming a centrist party? Does it lead one to change their opinion of Sharon? Or is it all some nefarious plot?

webfusion · 22nd November 2005, 04:41 AM

Update:
The tentative name "National Responsibility" was rejected on Monday.

The new breakaway party is likely to be named Kadima, Hebrew for "forward," Israel Radio reported.

webfusion · 22nd November 2005, 09:45 PM

Oh my, so hard to follow the election process already!

Name of new party is still being considered:
"Kadima" (forward) and "The Israeli Party" were rejected after they were tested on focus groups. Yesterday, the moniker "National Responsibility," which began to take off in the media, seemed to Sharon's people the most suitable, despite being cumbersome.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/649050.html

The temporary name of Ariel Sharon's new party - National Responsibility - will probably become permanent.

You heard it here first.

webfusion · 24th November 2005, 07:18 AM

I was curious why Arik Sharon decided to go with "Ahariut Leumi" (National Responsibility) instead of the catchier "Kadima" (Forward)....

it seems the backstory is this:

Arik's home is a ranch.

In the Knesset, during a debate about setting new elections, some members began shouting "KADIMA L'HAVA" at the PM -- a play on words in Hebrew, saying "follow me to the Ranch" ---- To understand the import of that, you have to know officers in the IDF tell their men, 'Kadima Aharay' in battle, the famous IDF creed where officers lead and tell their troops, "Forward, Follow Me"... anyway, it made Arik mad (since he is an ex-IDF General who is famous for telling his men 'Kadima Aharay').

Mycroft · 24th November 2005, 08:21 AM

I have got to learn Hebrew.

webfusion · 24th November 2005, 08:35 AM

It's a very cool language. I learned it on a kibbutz, spending half the day working and the other half in class. I would walk around, pointing to things & asking "what's this called?" and picked up a vocabulary of 2000 nouns in two weeks.

Then, being drafted into the IDF brought my Hebrew skills to a new level, including slang and "fast talking" and entering into the realm of conversational/discussional language, and following the news on the radio (broadcast every thirty minutes). Israelis are news junkies of the first degree.

Mycroft, have you ever visited Israel?

Mycroft · 24th November 2005, 09:05 AM

No, I've never visited Israel, but it sounds like a place I'd like to visit.

I was under the impression you were native Israeli, is that not true?

webfusion · 24th November 2005, 01:51 PM

Not a native, a Jewish immigrant from North America.
I'm currently in the US doing sensitive defense-industry work for a major Israeli hi-tech firm, an assignment that will last several years.

Israel is a place you would love. I certainly do, and I miss being there.

a_unique_person · 24th November 2005, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Oh my, so hard to follow the election process already!

Name of new party is still being considered:
"Kadima" (forward) and "The Israeli Party" were rejected after they were tested on focus groups. Yesterday, the moniker "National Responsibility," which began to take off in the media, seemed to Sharon's people the most suitable, despite being cumbersome.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/649050.html

The temporary name of Ariel Sharon's new party - National Responsibility - will probably become permanent.

You heard it here first.

No, it's "Forward".

webfusion · 24th November 2005, 04:35 PM

From ABC news:
Political commentators said the term "Kadima" would fit well with Sharon's popular image in Israel as an adventurous ex-general who spurred his forces to advance on the battlefield in a military career spanning four decades.

You will be hearing a lot of "Kadima L'Hava" (...to the Ranch) over the next months.

20th November 2005, 02:14 PM	#1
monoman Master baiter - I fish! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 967	Sharon 'set to quit Likud party' Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is set to quit his ruling Likud party and run separately in next year's elections, Israeli army radio reports. Mr Sharon reportedly made the decision to leave the party he helped to found after lengthy talks with aides. Earlier, the moderate Labour party under new leader Amir Peretz voted to leave Mr Sharon's coalition. Many in Likud opposed Mr Sharon's decision to pull out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank earlier this year. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4455356.stm No details as yet....

20th November 2005, 02:45 PM	#2
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Point of Order While Sharon may very well leave the Likud, he can only do so in the framework of new elections being set in 90-days. And that seems to be about to happen... There is no mechanism at this point in Israeli politics as a "Candidate for Prime Minister" -- it was tried for a while and dropped. The way the system is set up now, a party is formed and registered with a list of 120 candidates for Knesset. If that party passes a 'threshold' of votes in the general election, then it is given a number of seats according to the percentage of all votes. No party has ever received more than 50% of all votes, and therefore, no party has ever had an automatic parliamentary majority, and coalitions need to be arranged. The President of Israel, after the elections are over, calls upon the head of the party with the highest number of seats, to see if he can form a coalition. If he can't do it within a specified time frame, then the task is offered to the party with the second-highest seat count. There is no such thing as "winning the job of Prime Minister" -- it is all party-politics, totally. Arik Sharon, after he walks out of the framework of the Likud, needs to form a new party and run in elections within three months. It almost looks like he and Shimon Peres might join forces, now wouldn't that be fascinating?!!
	Last edited by webfusion; 20th November 2005 at 02:57 PM.

20th November 2005, 04:29 PM	#3
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,742	Originally Posted by webfusion While Sharon may very well leave the Likud, he can only do so in the framework of new elections being set in 90-days. And that seems to be about to happen... He can leave the Likud Party any time he wants, it's just a political party. Any Knesset member can leave his party, to join another, form their own or sit as an individual. Quote: There is no mechanism at this point in Israeli politics as a "Candidate for Prime Minister" -- it was tried for a while and dropped. The system is parliamentary, not presidential, so why this was tried is anybody's guess. My guess is better than most, of course, but it's still a best guess. Quote: The way the system is set up now, a party is formed and registered with a list of 120 candidates for Knesset. If that party passes a 'threshold' of votes in the general election, then it is given a number of seats according to the percentage of all votes. No party has ever received more than 50% of all votes, and therefore, no party has ever had an automatic parliamentary majority, and coalitions need to be arranged. The parties tend to be coalitions themselves, which makes the whole political scene frantically complicated. The ranking of names on the list becomes the subject of intense wrangling. Sharon's great problem with the Likud is the Party's ability to place anti-Sharon candidates high on the list, thus getting them into the Knesset, while capitalising on Sharon's personal following. He would be neutered unless he split Likud anyway after the election, but by not waiting he gets to draw up his own list. Quote: Arik Sharon, after he walks out of the framework of the Likud, needs to form a new party and run in elections within three months. It almost looks like he and Shimon Peres might join forces, now wouldn't that be fascinating?!! I think his people have been preparing the groundwork for some time, don't you? It's not as if this has leapt out of the woodpile after dark. The Peres link-up has been mooted previously, but the odds have come-in sharply following Peretz's success. That would be an iconic face-off. The Old Guard - Ashkenazi nation-founders - versus the New Guard, products of that nation. How will the Eastern Mizrahim respond to a North African? How will the Russians respond? How will later-generation Ashkenazis respond to a union-leader? Just the thing for these dark, cold winter months. I will start a generic Israeli Election thread right away.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

20th November 2005, 05:17 PM	#4
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Election Fever "Just the thing for these dark, cold winter months." Maybe for you, it's dark and cold. For the Israelis, it's actually quite bright and balmy on the Med. Tel Aviv/Jaffa

21st November 2005, 08:43 PM	#6
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,105	I wonder what those who have spent years demonizing Sharon as the maniacle right-wing nut-case make of him forming a centrist party? Does it lead one to change their opinion of Sharon? Or is it all some nefarious plot?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

21st November 2005, 05:38 PM	#5
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	The new party will be called: "National Responsibility" (Ahariut Leumi)

22nd November 2005, 04:41 AM	#7
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	The plot thickens Update: The tentative name "National Responsibility" was rejected on Monday. The new breakaway party is likely to be named Kadima, Hebrew for "forward," Israel Radio reported.

22nd November 2005, 09:45 PM	#8
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	+bump+ Oh my, so hard to follow the election process already! Name of new party is still being considered: "Kadima" (forward) and "The Israeli Party" were rejected after they were tested on focus groups. Yesterday, the moniker "National Responsibility," which began to take off in the media, seemed to Sharon's people the most suitable, despite being cumbersome. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/649050.html The temporary name of Ariel Sharon's new party - National Responsibility - will probably become permanent. You heard it here first.

24th November 2005, 07:18 AM	#9
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	what happened? I was curious why Arik Sharon decided to go with "Ahariut Leumi" (National Responsibility) instead of the catchier "Kadima" (Forward).... it seems the backstory is this: Arik's home is a ranch. In the Knesset, during a debate about setting new elections, some members began shouting "KADIMA L'HAVA" at the PM -- a play on words in Hebrew, saying "follow me to the Ranch" ---- To understand the import of that, you have to know officers in the IDF tell their men, 'Kadima Aharay' in battle, the famous IDF creed where officers lead and tell their troops, "Forward, Follow Me"... anyway, it made Arik mad (since he is an ex-IDF General who is famous for telling his men 'Kadima Aharay').

24th November 2005, 08:21 AM	#10
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,105	I have got to learn Hebrew.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

24th November 2005, 08:35 AM	#11
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	It's a very cool language. I learned it on a kibbutz, spending half the day working and the other half in class. I would walk around, pointing to things & asking "what's this called?" and picked up a vocabulary of 2000 nouns in two weeks. Then, being drafted into the IDF brought my Hebrew skills to a new level, including slang and "fast talking" and entering into the realm of conversational/discussional language, and following the news on the radio (broadcast every thirty minutes). Israelis are news junkies of the first degree. Mycroft, have you ever visited Israel?

24th November 2005, 09:05 AM	#12
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,105	No, I've never visited Israel, but it sounds like a place I'd like to visit. I was under the impression you were native Israeli, is that not true?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

24th November 2005, 01:51 PM	#13
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Not a native, a Jewish immigrant from North America. I'm currently in the US doing sensitive defense-industry work for a major Israeli hi-tech firm, an assignment that will last several years. Israel is a place you would love. I certainly do, and I miss being there.
	__________________ "You support Israel. Enough said." -- mxwarrior, a rabid anti-Israel JREF poster (now banned) offered this in trying to dismiss all comments offered in rebuttal to him by those JREF'ers who use logic, facts, valid sources, and reality.

24th November 2005, 02:43 PM	#14
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,327	Originally Posted by webfusion Oh my, so hard to follow the election process already! Name of new party is still being considered: "Kadima" (forward) and "The Israeli Party" were rejected after they were tested on focus groups. Yesterday, the moniker "National Responsibility," which began to take off in the media, seemed to Sharon's people the most suitable, despite being cumbersome. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/649050.html The temporary name of Ariel Sharon's new party - National Responsibility - will probably become permanent. You heard it here first. No, it's "Forward".
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

24th November 2005, 04:35 PM	#15
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	From ABC news: Political commentators said the term "Kadima" would fit well with Sharon's popular image in Israel as an adventurous ex-general who spurred his forces to advance on the battlefield in a military career spanning four decades. You will be hearing a lot of "Kadima L'Hava" (...to the Ranch) over the next months.
	Last edited by webfusion; 24th November 2005 at 04:37 PM.