Dan Brown

HarryKeogh · 15th December 2005, 07:53 AM

Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot?

What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown?

this post written after I just finished Angels and Demons...reading it with my jaw dropped because of the sloppiness of it all and angry at myself for not being able to put the book down (because it's kind of fun to root for the blowing up of the Vatican.)

Garrette · 15th December 2005, 09:24 AM

He wanted to sell 50 million books in three years.

Worked, too.

I may be among the few on this board who actually enjoyed The DaVinci Code.

I thought it was factually rotten and the foreword unforgivable and from a technical standpoint the writing fairly poor.

But it was fun.

Same things for Angels and Demons but to a lesser degree.

kmortis · 15th December 2005, 11:15 AM

I enjoyed the DaVinci Code. It's a good ariplane book. I'd previously read (about 10 years previous, that is) "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" so I was alreay familar with the concept. I didn't like that, when I got around to reading A&Ds that I found out that he'd basically written the same book twice.

Eh. so he's a hack writer...so what? Does it get you through that three hour layover in Philadelphia?

Garrette · 15th December 2005, 11:23 AM

We're obviously twins. I had read Holy Blood Holy Grail also about ten years previously.

And I also thought Angels & Demons was in effect the same as The DaVinci Code but not as well done. Remember, though, that A&D was written first--it was rereleased after the success of DaVinci.

And who are all you mutants who can read novels in three hours? I'm an excellent reader, but my speed is, at best, average.

bob_kark · 15th December 2005, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by HarryKeogh

What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown?

He's allowed to breed? I mean, I don't think that makes him such a schmuck, it just seems wrong is all.

dogjones · 15th December 2005, 11:59 AM

I had the misfortune of reading "Deception Point" the other day. It was nauseating.

kmortis · 15th December 2005, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Garrette

We're obviously twins. I had read Holy Blood Holy Grail also about ten years previously.

And I also thought Angels & Demons was in effect the same as The DaVinci Code but not as well done. Remember, though, that A&D was written first--it was rereleased after the success of DaVinci.

And who are all you mutants who can read novels in three hours? I'm an excellent reader, but my speed is, at best, average.

Well, once you skip over all the woo in the book, it's about three hours to read all the intoduction, conclusion...ok, I take it back, take out all the woo and it'll take you three minutes to read DaVinci and that includes the time to walk over to the bookshelf to pick it up

Tony · 15th December 2005, 01:05 PM

I haven't read any of his books. I guess I should if I want to know what you guys are talking about...

kmortis · 15th December 2005, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

I haven't read any of his books. I guess I should if I want to know what you guys are talking about...

Eh...it's ok. Borrow a copy if you really have to read it.

TobiasTheViking · 15th December 2005, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by kmortis

Eh...it's ok. Borrow a copy if you really have to read it.

Just remember to also have a supply of vicodin handy

ImaginalDisc · 15th December 2005, 02:16 PM

Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder.

kmortis · 15th December 2005, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder.

MEH! It's his PR guy telling him to do that. It make for contraversey, which sells books. So does misspellings....

Johnny Pixels · 15th December 2005, 04:42 PM

I really liked the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. Digital Fortress was good. Deception point was alright, but there was a mistake in it that don't know how he managed to make it. He specifically mentions the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter, which he must have done some research on as it's not a name you pick out of the air or that's bandied around a lot, and even describes its mast mounted sight, but then later on he states that the laser beam is coming from the nose of the helicopter. I'm confused because the laser is mounted in the mast sight, so why did he not know this after doing research on the helicopter? It's a picky minor point I know, but just strikes me as strange.

BeholdTheTruth · 15th December 2005, 06:18 PM

The ending of the DVC was a let down.

logical muse · 15th December 2005, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Yale Landsberg

The ending of the DVC was a let down.

Could you please save me the trouble of reading the damn thing and just tell me what happens in the end? Does everyone die? I can only hope.

dogjones · 16th December 2005, 06:08 AM

I quite enjoyed DVC actually, even though the bad guy turns out to be like any other American blockbuster bad guy: English

Hutch · 16th December 2005, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Pixels

I really liked the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. Digital Fortress was good. Deception point was alright, but there was a mistake in it that don't know how he managed to make it. He specifically mentions the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter, which he must have done some research on as it's not a name you pick out of the air or that's bandied around a lot, and even describes its mast mounted sight, but then later on he states that the laser beam is coming from the nose of the helicopter. I'm confused because the laser is mounted in the mast sight, so why did he not know this after doing research on the helicopter? It's a picky minor point I know, but just strikes me as strange.

Never read the book, Johnny, but I have a hunch that he confused it with the AH-64 Apache, which does have the laser beam coming from the nose of the aircraft. IMHO.

Morwen · 16th December 2005, 06:52 AM

I read Holy Blood Holy Grail, or rather, 1 line of every 3 more or less. It was woo fun.

Then I played Gabriel Knight 3. Much more fun.

I'm not really interested in revisiting the d*mned Rennes-le-Château mystery for a 3rd time, so I'll pass on the DaVinci code. Maybe I'll borrow it one day. Anyone have a copy they don't care about?

Johnny Pixels · 16th December 2005, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Hutch

Never read the book, Johnny, but I have a hunch that he confused it with the AH-64 Apache, which does have the laser beam coming from the nose of the aircraft. IMHO.

Whoah, I seem to have made a huge mistake. Just checked the book and it doesn't mention the laser coming from the nose. I must have seen that somewhere else. My apologies. I was so sure too, it's gonna annoy me til I find out what I was thinking of.

Diamond · 19th December 2005, 02:18 AM

The DaVinci Code used every plot device in the pulp thriller writer's arsenal. I just felt I was reading something incredibly silly.

The big groaner for me was the multilayered meanings of words and symbols. After a while I thought I was reading stuff into everything. I even felt sympathy for Opus Dei and the Roman Catholic Church afterwards for the portrayal made in the book.

It's pulp fiction.

MRC_Hans · 19th December 2005, 05:37 AM

Read Deception Point and DVC. In that order. DP is yer plain vanilla action hero thriller. It is about as deep as a street puddle. DVC was fun because it was a bit different. As with all such plots, the end stinks (and the rest of the plot falls apart if you think too deeply about it). You make a lot of red herrings and layered deceptions, and you need to vrap it up in a remotely logical way before the book ends. Nobody pulled that even half good since Alistair McLean.

I consider both of them good "bring on your holiday trip, leave at the hotel" books. Good thing I borrowed DP and got DVC cheap at a flea-market.

Hans

Lothian · 19th December 2005, 05:41 AM

All the facts in his books are right.

Those that are wrong are not facts but fiction

MRC_Hans · 20th December 2005, 02:09 AM

Ehr, good point, except that some of the things he claims to be fact, are in fact, fiction.

Hans

Piscivore · 20th December 2005, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by HarryKeogh

Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot?

What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown?

The same thing that's wrong with the Farrelly Bros who put "This is a True Story" in front of Fargo.

Lothian · 20th December 2005, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Ehr, good point, except that some of the things he claims to be fact, are in fact, fiction.

Hans

So you are saying, in fact, that the facts that are facts and are described as facts are indeed facts whereas the facts described as facts which are in fact not facts should in fact not be described as facts.

rustypouch · 20th December 2005, 09:33 AM

I agree that it was a pulp whodunnit, with far-reaching implications.

Very easy to read, with enough hints that the average dumbass can convince themselves that they knew the answers all along. But the writing was pretty bad, with the cliff hanges at the end of every chapter.

thrombus29 · 20th December 2005, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Piscivore

The same thing that's wrong with the Farrelly Bros who put "This is a True Story" in front of Fargo.

Cohen brothers, The Farrelly Bros claimed that "Stuck on you" was true.

LW · 21st December 2005, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by HarryKeogh

Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot?[/size]

In my opinion there are writers who are much worse in this respect than Dan Brown.

The bottom of the pit is probably Sven Hassel who claims to have written his own memoirs.

The only problem is that I have spotted plagiarized scenes that are lifted word-to-word from books such as Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front, Hasek's Good Soldier Svejk, Konsalik's Strafbataljon 999, Linna's Tuntematon sotilas, Heinrich's Das geduldige Fleisch (better known in English as "The Cross of Iron"), and several others that I can't remember offhand. In fact, I can't remember ever reading a single Hassel book where I didn't recognize at least one scene. Probably the most absurd plagiarization was when he lifted the plot of Kelly's Heroes and claimed that it happened to him in Russia.

Well, OK, there are another problems, like how his stories are internally inconsistent to the degree of absurdity with him being in three or four different locations at the same time and like there is actually no evidence that he ever served in the German army.

Haywire · 25th December 2005, 10:37 PM

I just finished DVC on the plane to San Diego.
I just don't see what the big deal is. It's in the fiction section for a reason.

Renfield · 18th January 2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder.

People have been referring to him as "Da Vinci" for a long time. Its a common practice, done in encyclopedias, articles, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was actually the man's name, taken from the place of his birth. The book might have a lot of errors and woo-ish thinking, but this isn't one of them.

Edited to add: from Wikipedia, "Leonardo, the illegitimate son of a Florentine notary named Ser Piero and a local peasant woman called Caterina, was born before modern naming conventions developed in Europe; his name "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci", simply means "Leonardo, son of [Mes]ser Piero, from Vinci". "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci

Spindrift · 19th January 2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Renfield

People have been referring to him as "Da Vinci" for a long time. Its a common practice, done in encyclopedias, articles, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was actually the man's name, taken from the place of his birth. The book might have a lot of errors and woo-ish thinking, but this isn't one of them.

Edited to add: from Wikipedia, "Leonardo, the illegitimate son of a Florentine notary named Ser Piero and a local peasant woman called Caterina, was born before modern naming conventions developed in Europe; his name "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci", simply means "Leonardo, son of [Mes]ser Piero, from Vinci". "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci

The "di ser Piero da Vinci" is a descriptor not really a name. In scholarly circles (and the hero of the story is a Harvard professor) he is not referred to as "da Vinci". That would be like referring to Joan of Arc as "of Arc".

And for someone who seemed to know a lot about the "secrets" of the Catholic Church, Brown messed up on a basic tenet of Roman Catholicism. The "Immaculate Conception" is about the birth of Mary, not the virgin birth of Jesus. Mary was born without original sin, hence "Immaculate Conception". - Hi, my name is Jim and I'm a recovering Catholic.

I can't count the number of times I rolled my eyes at some of the things. The book takes place in about a 24 hour period and there are more coincidences per hour than can be imagined. But even with all that I liked the book, it would have been a lot better if a competent editor had gotten to it before publication.

Luciana · 23rd January 2006, 02:38 PM

Regardless of all the factual errors, I'm dying to see it on the screen. There's potential for a very entertaining popcorn-quality movie, in an Indiana Jones kind of style. A corpse on the Louvre, come on. And Audrey Tatou! Cool.

Checkmite · 23rd January 2006, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond

I even felt sympathy for Opus Dei and the Roman Catholic Church afterwards for the portrayal made in the book.

I second that. Any book which mentions the mythical "Illuminati" automatically goes bankrupt in the cool-points department; but after trying Angels and Demons, I almost wish the Illuminati were real, just so they could do something insidious to Dan Brown.

I will go to see the movie of The DaVinci Code. Being only two hours long, it would've been impossible for the producers of the film to include any of the effluvium which makes up most of the book, leaving only the marketable, halfway-decent material. I hope it makes a good movie.

15th December 2005, 07:53 AM	#1
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Dan Brown Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot? What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown? this post written after I just finished Angels and Demons...reading it with my jaw dropped because of the sloppiness of it all and angry at myself for not being able to put the book down (because it's kind of fun to root for the blowing up of the Vatican.)

15th December 2005, 11:15 AM	#3
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,613	I enjoyed the DaVinci Code. It's a good ariplane book. I'd previously read (about 10 years previous, that is) "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" so I was alreay familar with the concept. I didn't like that, when I got around to reading A&Ds that I found out that he'd basically written the same book twice. Eh. so he's a hack writer...so what? Does it get you through that three hour layover in Philadelphia?
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

15th December 2005, 12:29 PM	#7
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,613	Originally Posted by Garrette We're obviously twins. I had read Holy Blood Holy Grail also about ten years previously. And I also thought Angels & Demons was in effect the same as The DaVinci Code but not as well done. Remember, though, that A&D was written first--it was rereleased after the success of DaVinci. And who are all you mutants who can read novels in three hours? I'm an excellent reader, but my speed is, at best, average. Well, once you skip over all the woo in the book, it's about three hours to read all the intoduction, conclusion...ok, I take it back, take out all the woo and it'll take you three minutes to read DaVinci and that includes the time to walk over to the bookshelf to pick it up
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

15th December 2005, 01:05 PM	#8
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,760	I haven't read any of his books. I guess I should if I want to know what you guys are talking about...
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

15th December 2005, 01:17 PM	#9
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,613	Originally Posted by Tony I haven't read any of his books. I guess I should if I want to know what you guys are talking about... Eh...it's ok. Borrow a copy if you really have to read it.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

15th December 2005, 09:24 AM	#2
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,550	He wanted to sell 50 million books in three years. Worked, too. I may be among the few on this board who actually enjoyed The DaVinci Code. I thought it was factually rotten and the foreword unforgivable and from a technical standpoint the writing fairly poor. But it was fun. Same things for Angels and Demons but to a lesser degree.

15th December 2005, 11:23 AM	#4
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,550	We're obviously twins. I had read Holy Blood Holy Grail also about ten years previously. And I also thought Angels & Demons was in effect the same as The DaVinci Code but not as well done. Remember, though, that A&D was written first--it was rereleased after the success of DaVinci. And who are all you mutants who can read novels in three hours? I'm an excellent reader, but my speed is, at best, average.

15th December 2005, 11:35 AM	#5
bob_kark Person of Hench Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Globalist H.Q., 25th floor, 5th room on the right. Posts: 4,109	Originally Posted by HarryKeogh What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown? He's allowed to breed? I mean, I don't think that makes him such a schmuck, it just seems wrong is all.

15th December 2005, 11:59 AM	#6
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	I had the misfortune of reading "Deception Point" the other day. It was nauseating.

15th December 2005, 01:26 PM	#10
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	Originally Posted by kmortis Eh...it's ok. Borrow a copy if you really have to read it. Just remember to also have a supply of vicodin handy
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

15th December 2005, 02:16 PM	#11
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder.

15th December 2005, 04:08 PM	#12
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,613	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder. MEH! It's his PR guy telling him to do that. It make for contraversey, which sells books. So does misspellings....
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

15th December 2005, 04:42 PM	#13
Johnny Pixels and The Electric Revolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,393	I really liked the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. Digital Fortress was good. Deception point was alright, but there was a mistake in it that don't know how he managed to make it. He specifically mentions the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter, which he must have done some research on as it's not a name you pick out of the air or that's bandied around a lot, and even describes its mast mounted sight, but then later on he states that the laser beam is coming from the nose of the helicopter. I'm confused because the laser is mounted in the mast sight, so why did he not know this after doing research on the helicopter? It's a picky minor point I know, but just strikes me as strange.

15th December 2005, 06:18 PM	#14
BeholdTheTruth Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 752	The ending of the DVC was a let down.
BeholdTheTruth Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 752

15th December 2005, 09:21 PM	#15
logical muse LogMu Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by Yale Landsberg The ending of the DVC was a let down. Could you please save me the trouble of reading the damn thing and just tell me what happens in the end? Does everyone die? I can only hope.
logical muse LogMu Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,082	__________________ how to spell definitely evolution is not just a theory "Far from terminating the vicious regress, God aggravates it with a vengeance." -- Richard Dawkins

16th December 2005, 06:08 AM	#16
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	I quite enjoyed DVC actually, even though the bad guy turns out to be like any other American blockbuster bad guy: English

16th December 2005, 06:38 AM	#17
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,536	Originally Posted by Johnny Pixels I really liked the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. Digital Fortress was good. Deception point was alright, but there was a mistake in it that don't know how he managed to make it. He specifically mentions the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter, which he must have done some research on as it's not a name you pick out of the air or that's bandied around a lot, and even describes its mast mounted sight, but then later on he states that the laser beam is coming from the nose of the helicopter. I'm confused because the laser is mounted in the mast sight, so why did he not know this after doing research on the helicopter? It's a picky minor point I know, but just strikes me as strange. Never read the book, Johnny, but I have a hunch that he confused it with the AH-64 Apache, which does have the laser beam coming from the nose of the aircraft. IMHO.
	__________________ If sheer righteous fury could accomplish anything worthwhile, Wolverines would have inherited the Galaxy long ago." -Web DuHavel, David Weber's "Honorverse" Series

16th December 2005, 06:52 AM	#18
Morwen Reality junkie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 780	I read Holy Blood Holy Grail, or rather, 1 line of every 3 more or less. It was woo fun. Then I played Gabriel Knight 3. Much more fun. I'm not really interested in revisiting the d*mned Rennes-le-Château mystery for a 3rd time, so I'll pass on the DaVinci code. Maybe I'll borrow it one day. Anyone have a copy they don't care about?
	__________________ "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move." -- Douglas Adams "La vida, esa chulería de la materia" -- Emile Ciorán

16th December 2005, 08:49 AM	#19
Johnny Pixels and The Electric Revolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,393	Originally Posted by Hutch Never read the book, Johnny, but I have a hunch that he confused it with the AH-64 Apache, which does have the laser beam coming from the nose of the aircraft. IMHO. Whoah, I seem to have made a huge mistake. Just checked the book and it doesn't mention the laser coming from the nose. I must have seen that somewhere else. My apologies. I was so sure too, it's gonna annoy me til I find out what I was thinking of.

19th December 2005, 02:18 AM	#20
Diamond SkepticWiki Founder Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 'Stralia Posts: 4,748	The DaVinci Code used every plot device in the pulp thriller writer's arsenal. I just felt I was reading something incredibly silly. The big groaner for me was the multilayered meanings of words and symbols. After a while I thought I was reading stuff into everything. I even felt sympathy for Opus Dei and the Roman Catholic Church afterwards for the portrayal made in the book. It's pulp fiction.
	__________________ "The good thing about the Internet is that no matter how many repressed cretins with outmoded morals and religious fundamentalist idiots hate what you have to say, they cannot burn a website." -www.rinderpest.com

19th December 2005, 05:37 AM	#21
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,602	Read Deception Point and DVC. In that order. DP is yer plain vanilla action hero thriller. It is about as deep as a street puddle. DVC was fun because it was a bit different. As with all such plots, the end stinks (and the rest of the plot falls apart if you think too deeply about it). You make a lot of red herrings and layered deceptions, and you need to vrap it up in a remotely logical way before the book ends. Nobody pulled that even half good since Alistair McLean. I consider both of them good "bring on your holiday trip, leave at the hotel" books. Good thing I borrowed DP and got DVC cheap at a flea-market. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

19th December 2005, 05:41 AM	#22
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	All the facts in his books are right. Those that are wrong are not facts but fiction

20th December 2005, 02:09 AM	#23
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,602	Ehr, good point, except that some of the things he claims to be fact, are in fact, fiction. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

20th December 2005, 08:05 AM	#24
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,461	Originally Posted by HarryKeogh Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot? What the hell is wrong with Dan Brown? The same thing that's wrong with the Farrelly Bros who put "This is a True Story" in front of Fargo.
	__________________ It's always been Wankershim. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

20th December 2005, 08:24 AM	#25
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Ehr, good point, except that some of the things he claims to be fact, are in fact, fiction. Hans So you are saying, in fact, that the facts that are facts and are described as facts are indeed facts whereas the facts described as facts which are in fact not facts should in fact not be described as facts.

20th December 2005, 09:33 AM	#26
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Belfort Posts: 5,128	I agree that it was a pulp whodunnit, with far-reaching implications. Very easy to read, with enough hints that the average dumbass can convince themselves that they knew the answers all along. But the writing was pretty bad, with the cliff hanges at the end of every chapter.

20th December 2005, 05:10 PM	#27
thrombus29 Flame War Master and JREF kid Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,925	Originally Posted by Piscivore The same thing that's wrong with the Farrelly Bros who put "This is a True Story" in front of Fargo. Cohen brothers, The Farrelly Bros claimed that "Stuck on you" was true.
	__________________ Now I am not going to justify what may appear to be a failure in carrying out this prediction but rest in the fact that there will be success. -St. Paul Bethke Targzissians are obviously reptilian

21st December 2005, 08:04 AM	#28
LW Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 60°N 25°E Posts: 2,800	Originally Posted by HarryKeogh Why does Dan Brown write in the forward to his books how pretty much everything presented in his novels are factual and accurate (when clearly they are not) and other authors of popular fiction like John Grisham will state how they had to make up stuff (change laws, places, etc) to suit the plot?[/size] In my opinion there are writers who are much worse in this respect than Dan Brown. The bottom of the pit is probably Sven Hassel who claims to have written his own memoirs. The only problem is that I have spotted plagiarized scenes that are lifted word-to-word from books such as Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front, Hasek's Good Soldier Svejk, Konsalik's Strafbataljon 999, Linna's Tuntematon sotilas, Heinrich's Das geduldige Fleisch (better known in English as "The Cross of Iron"), and several others that I can't remember offhand. In fact, I can't remember ever reading a single Hassel book where I didn't recognize at least one scene. Probably the most absurd plagiarization was when he lifted the plot of Kelly's Heroes and claimed that it happened to him in Russia. Well, OK, there are another problems, like how his stories are internally inconsistent to the degree of absurdity with him being in three or four different locations at the same time and like there is actually no evidence that he ever served in the German army.

25th December 2005, 10:37 PM	#29
Haywire Relationship Police. Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 189	I just finished DVC on the plane to San Diego. I just don't see what the big deal is. It's in the fiction section for a reason.
	__________________ *Nothing new on race day!*

18th January 2006, 03:00 PM	#30
Renfield Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,055	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Does anyone else find it odd that Dan Brown would claim that every single "fact" in his book is correct, and yet the darned title has a glaring factual error? It ought to be "The Leonardo Code". da Vinci was what he was called, but it wasn't his name. When the author of book doesn't even take care to keep his titles error free, I start to wonder. People have been referring to him as "Da Vinci" for a long time. Its a common practice, done in encyclopedias, articles, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was actually the man's name, taken from the place of his birth. The book might have a lot of errors and woo-ish thinking, but this isn't one of them. Edited to add: from Wikipedia, "Leonardo, the illegitimate son of a Florentine notary named Ser Piero and a local peasant woman called Caterina, was born before modern naming conventions developed in Europe; his name "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci", simply means "Leonardo, son of [Mes]ser Piero, from Vinci". " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci
	__________________ If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank. -Woody Allen (1935 - http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/deist1999/ Last edited by Renfield; 18th January 2006 at 03:03 PM.

19th January 2006, 02:59 PM	#31
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,449	Originally Posted by Renfield People have been referring to him as "Da Vinci" for a long time. Its a common practice, done in encyclopedias, articles, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was actually the man's name, taken from the place of his birth. The book might have a lot of errors and woo-ish thinking, but this isn't one of them. Edited to add: from Wikipedia, "Leonardo, the illegitimate son of a Florentine notary named Ser Piero and a local peasant woman called Caterina, was born before modern naming conventions developed in Europe; his name "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci", simply means "Leonardo, son of [Mes]ser Piero, from Vinci". " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci The "di ser Piero da Vinci" is a descriptor not really a name. In scholarly circles (and the hero of the story is a Harvard professor) he is not referred to as "da Vinci". That would be like referring to Joan of Arc as "of Arc". And for someone who seemed to know a lot about the "secrets" of the Catholic Church, Brown messed up on a basic tenet of Roman Catholicism. The "Immaculate Conception" is about the birth of Mary, not the virgin birth of Jesus. Mary was born without original sin, hence "Immaculate Conception". - Hi, my name is Jim and I'm a recovering Catholic. I can't count the number of times I rolled my eyes at some of the things. The book takes place in about a 24 hour period and there are more coincidences per hour than can be imagined. But even with all that I liked the book, it would have been a lot better if a competent editor had gotten to it before publication.

23rd January 2006, 02:38 PM	#32
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,952	Regardless of all the factual errors, I'm dying to see it on the screen. There's potential for a very entertaining popcorn-quality movie, in an Indiana Jones kind of style. A corpse on the Louvre, come on. And Audrey Tatou! Cool.
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

23rd January 2006, 07:18 PM	#33
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,880	Originally Posted by Diamond I even felt sympathy for Opus Dei and the Roman Catholic Church afterwards for the portrayal made in the book. I second that. Any book which mentions the mythical "Illuminati" automatically goes bankrupt in the cool-points department; but after trying Angels and Demons, I almost wish the Illuminati were real, just so they could do something insidious to Dan Brown. I will go to see the movie of The DaVinci Code. Being only two hours long, it would've been impossible for the producers of the film to include any of the effluvium which makes up most of the book, leaving only the marketable, halfway-decent material. I hope it makes a good movie.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002