How do pagans celebrate Christmas?

[kurious_kathy]

I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!

[Cleon]

What does the post have to do with the topic?

I was looking forward to responding with, "by virgin sacrifice."

[TobiasTheViking]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!

Well, in CIVILIZED countries(granted this leaves out US ) we have this winter solstice, and we call it Yule, which we celebrate. For some reason some people have chosen to place the imaginary figure called "Christ"s birth on that day, and called it Christmas, but to the rest of us, it is Yule.

So, we "Pagans" celebrate Yule, not Christmas.

*snigger*

Sincerely
Tobias

[Garrette]

The alleged birth of the alleged savior is indeed the reason that the christian church has celebrated christmas. However, not all christians have agreed it was a good thing to do. Some christian communities have tried to ban it altogether.

That being said, why would you assume that "pagans" celebrate christmas at all?

"Pagans" generally refers to Wiccans who have no belief in your christ, so why should they celebrate it?

Or maybe you meant "heathens" which generally refers (in a very derogatory manner) to all non-christians? The same question applies.

Still, I'm an atheist and I do celebrate it, but only what you would consider its trappings. I find the joyous mood to be, well, joyous, and the idea of giving a good one.

Finally, I challenge you to point out the source of the "give me that, I want this" mood. I wager you'll find it disproportionately representative of the christian population and not the pagan/heathen/atheist population.

In any case, Merry Christmas.

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm not a Pagan, I'm an Apathetic Agnostic Buddhist Tacoist Pastafarian. I celebrate Christmas by opening presents with my family, having cinnamon rolls for breakfast, then later going to my mom's house for dinner and more prezzies. It is exactly the same traditions I had before I became an Apathetic Agnostic Buddhist Tacoist Pastafarian. Christ is nowhere to be seen in any of my holiday traditions, either before or after I lost my religion.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I celebrate Christmas by watching a movie with a good friend of mine (this will be year 14; damn, how time flies).

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

How do pagans celebrate Christmas?

I imagine they decorate trees, hang mistletoe, burn yule logs, etc. All the traditional pegan things.

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

I celebrate Christmas by watching a movie with a good friend of mine (this will be year 14; damn, how time flies).

My wife, who is Wiccan, celebrates in many of the traditional ways. Many of them (like the tree) were borrowed from pagans anyway. She meets with her coven and they stand in a circle, cast the four directions and give thanks to The Goddess. Then they cast spells and light candles of various colors for health, happiness, safety and just about every other worthy thing. Then they give each other gifts.

Sound familiar?

BTW, most pagans acknowledge the existence of the whole pantheon of gods, including the God of Christianity. They just don't think He's the most important one. In fact, the coven my wife is in thinks all the minor gods and goddesses were born of The Goddess.

[El Greco]

Here's how the followers of the summer worshipping cult celebrate.

You still have time to register.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Upchurch

I imagine they decorate trees, hang mistletoe, burn yule logs, etc. All the traditional pegan things.

I thought at first you wrote "burn christians."

I'd say it made me smile, but I imagine at least one reader wouldn't understand it as the joke it is.

[Skeptical Greg]

We celebrate it by counting the money those silly Christians spend on this nonsense... Fa, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La...

[Complexity]

kurious kathy - What a tacky thread title!

I can almost see the smug snear on your face when you ejaculate the word 'pagan'.

Assuming that you consider me to be one of your pet pagans:

I don't 'celebrate' Christmas.
I don't believe that Christmas is the anniversary of the birth of that kid.
I don't care whether that kid actually existed.

I will be celebrating the anniversary of Isaac Newton this December 25.
I will sleep in on December 25.
I will treat myself to a nice breakfast on December 25.
I will treat myself to a Christian-free day on December 25.
I will read and thoroughly enjoy something from the scientific literature on December 25.
I will watch a movie or so on December 25, preferably ones that would make you cringe.

I can go into more detail if you like, kurious kathy.

[TobiasTheViking]

Originally Posted by Complexity

kurious kathy - What a tacky thread title!

I can almost see the smug snear on your face when you ejaculate the word 'pagan'.

Assuming that you consider me to be one of your pet pagans:

I don't 'celebrate' Christmas.
I don't believe that Christmas is the anniversary of the birth of that kid.
I don't care whether that kid actually existed.

I will be celebrating the anniversary of Isaac Newton this December 25.
I will sleep in on December 25.
I will treat myself to a nice breakfast on December 25.
I will treat myself to a Christian-free day on December 25.
I will read and thoroughly enjoy something from the scientific literature on December 25.
I will watch a movie or so on December 25, preferably ones that would make you cringe.

I can go into more detail if you like, kurious kathy.

Sounds like heaven to me

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!

So why do Christians go shopping? Isn't it your holiday? Why are you blaming everyone because your cult lost control of its stolen celebration?

Yeah, stolen. What the hell do pine trees have to do with widdle baby jebus? Poor kid must have had hysterically big feet, too, if those huge red stockings hung on the mantel are any indication.
Candy canes?
Flying reindeer?
Wassail?
Mistletoe?

You've stolen our pagan holidays and their symbols. Give 'em back, dammit, and go decorate a manger. But if you want to know why there's noChrist in Christmas, ask the door-greeter at Wal-Mart the next time you need another string of lights and some tinsel for your pagan tree.

[kmortis]

Were goning to celebrate the return of the sun on the 21st. Then it's off to work with me since I squandered my vacation days throughout the year. On the 25th, we'll prolly have her parents over for some kind of dinner (I keep pushing for ham, as I find it humorous to "celebrate" the birth of a nice Jewish boy by consuming pig), and some prezzies. Since it's been a bad year, financially speaking, the prezzies will be light. Oh, well.

[Cleon]

Just to answer the topic--I'm not a pagan, I'm a heebie, so I celebrate Christmas in the traditional Jewish way. Namely, watching a movie and eating Chinese food.

[kurious_kathy]

Originally Posted by Tricky

BTW, most pagans acknowledge the existence of the whole pantheon of gods, including the God of Christianity. They just don't think He's the most important one. In fact, the coven my wife is in thinks all the minor gods and goddesses were born of The Goddess.

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

[clarsct]

So what?

I have also heard many Xian folks being turned around and find their true selves in Wicca. Hell, some of us became athiest because we READ THE BIBLE!!!


"My god is better than your god, and I'm right and you're wrong and i'm better than YOOOooooUUUU are, Neener Neener NeeeeeeEEEEEeeeener!"

Bah.

Christmas tree: Pagan
Presents: Pagan
Candles/lights: Pagan
Yule log: Pagan
Old man winter/Santa: Pagan/Madison avenue robbing a cultural tradition blind
Misletoe: Pagan
Holly: Pagan
Feasting(eat, drink and be merry): Pagan


I submit that Christmas is a Pagan holiday.

Oh, and Romans didn't have a census in the MIDDLE OF WINTER! So you blessed little savior couldn't have been born then, you dolt!

Bah. Go play with your dollies.

[logical muse]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

Hi Kathy

Are you really curious? Is that why you joined this forum? I'm afraid that dogmatic proselytising won't be met with much tolerance here. Can you engage in reasoned discourse with logical arguments?

If not, at least try and be funny, like this:

A man walked into a bar on a slow night and sat down. After a few minutes, the bartender asked him if he wanted a drink.

He replied, "No thanks. I don't drink. I tried it once but I didn't like it."

So the bartender said, "Well, would you like a cigarette?"

But the man said, "No thanks. I don't smoke. I tried it once but I didn't like it."

The bartender asked him if he'd like to play a game of pool, and again the man said, "No thanks. I don't like pool. I tried it once but I didn't like it. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be here at all, but I'm waiting for my son."

The bartender said, "Your only son, I'm guessing..."

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people.

A fair number of people claim that Christianity is a polytheistic religion for having three 'supreme beings' - God, Jeebus, and the Holy Ghost.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

What are you on? Is that how you celebrate Yule, by smoking some really GOOD ganja...?

[Kimpatsu]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

A fair number of people claim that Christianity is a polytheistic religion for having three 'supreme beings' - God, Jeebus, and the Holy Ghost.

Which is fair enough, as Xianity started out as henotheistic, and has many polytheistic trappings, not least of which is that the Aramaic in which Genesis was originally written uses the plural "elohim"; i.e., "The spirit of the gods moved over the water..."

[Kimpatsu]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God!

Yes! And my name is Kimpatsu! Fall down and worship me, and then send me all your money!

[Z]

On the 21st, we're going to gather around our tree, open presents, enjoy some hot cocoa, send the little brats out to play in the snow, and snuggle on the couch, just the three of us, cuddling and watching movies.

Well, maybe not - the roomie has to work, I think.

Damn - we still haven't put our tree up yet.

On Christmas, I think I'll dress in my 'Goth Villian' outfit, toss an inverted pentacle on a string, hang it around my neck, and sit on my front porch, smoking my pipe and playing with my athame, watching the Catholics attend the large church across the street, and sing bars of 'Throw Another Christian To The Lions' (sung to the tune of 'Throw Another Log Upon The Fire').

Or not.

Anyway, Klu Klutz Kathy is back, I see...

[Flo]

My, my, my, ... martyrdom isn't a patch on what it used to be ! What a pity to be reduced to provoking "pagans" on a virtual space, when you compare it to braving lions in Circus Maximus ...

[Genesius]

Originally Posted by zaayrdragon

Anyway, Klu Klutz Kathy is back, I see...

Yes, and if kurious_kathy is here, can Christian Dude be far behind?

Fortunately, I have the power of Apathetic Agnosticism to keep me sane in the face of their Xtian rants.

And (just to stay on topic) if you stretch the definition of "pagan" to mean "anybody who's not a Xtian", my family will be following our usual Saturnalia traditions - opening presents before going over to my parents' house for Solstice dinner. A batch of agnostics and athiests getting together to have a good time, and no Jesus in sight (unless you count the Buddy Christ on the dashboard of my car).

But, hey kathy, in the spirit of the season:

[kedo1981]

Only the most idiotic, half-witted, borderline retarded, fundamentalist Christians believe that their (mythological) Christ was really born on December 25.

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

That's interesting. The vast majority of pagans I know are former Christians. I guess the One True Goddess has the power to turn people around too!

[Beleth]

Apparently Christ intended us to celebrate His birth by taking offense at people who wish us "Happy Holidays" at Wal*Mart.

[Rufo]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!

Well, don't you consider being generous to each other is in the spirit of Jesus? Sitting down, eating, drinking, talking together as well. Does it really matter for what reason people do this? I think you should be happy so many cultures already had this tradition. Otherwise there wouldn't be much fellowship, would it?

Originally Posted by Kimpatsu

Which is fair enough, as Xianity started out as henotheistic, and has many polytheistic trappings, not least of which is that the Aramaic in which Genesis was originally written uses the plural "elohim"; i.e., "The spirit of the gods moved over the water..."

As so often in biblic matters - it's a matter of interpretation. The word "elohim" sure is plural, but the surrounding words referring to it (adjectives, etc.) indicates singular. This has made most translators interpret it as a 'majestic we' (a bit similar to the 'royal we') and that it's actually referring to just one God.

I'm not saying this is a more correct interpretation, but please, stop referring to this as fact!

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by clarsct

Presents: Pagan

While the ultimate origin is pegan, giving presents to children on Christmas has a legitimately Christian symbolism, i.e. the wise men's gifts.

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by zaayrdragon

On the 21st, we're going to gather around our tree, open presents, enjoy some hot cocoa, send the little brats out to play in the snow, and snuggle on the couch, just the three of us, cuddling and watching movies.

Well, maybe not - the roomie has to work, I think.

Damn - we still haven't put our tree up yet.

On Christmas, I think I'll dress in my 'Goth Villian' outfit, toss an inverted pentacle on a string, hang it around my neck, and sit on my front porch, smoking my pipe and playing with my athame, watching the Catholics attend the large church across the street, and sing bars of 'Throw Another Christian To The Lions' (sung to the tune of 'Throw Another Log Upon The Fire').

Or not.

Anyway, Klu Klutz Kathy is back, I see...

Dude, I love you.

Um, not in THAT way...

..in the manly way of sharing beers and watching [insert sporting event here] together rooting for [insert favorite sports teams here]!

[Z]

Favorite sport? Can RPGs be considered sports? Can 'The Heroes' be considered my favorite team?

Of course, I've been advised that being a GM while intoxicated makes the game - strange.

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

Since everyone else has jumped on the first part, I'll takle the second.

Really? You've HEARD??? Any actualy witnessing of said turning? As for people becoming Christian from being Pagan. I'd imagine that we'll start seeing more of that as this generation of Pagan kids grows up. They'll get to the rebelous teen-aged years, and convert to tweak mommy and daddy. But, like a goodly portion of the fluffy bunny pagans out there, once the shock wears off, they'll go back to their roots.

I've done countless pagan and Satanic rituals in my day, and here I sit, amlicably chatting with you. I left your god to "test the spirits" of other religions. I'll agree with you in one aspect, every religion I "tested" I found wanting. This includes Christianity.

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by zaayrdragon

Favorite sport? Can RPGs be considered sports? Can 'The Heroes' be considered my favorite team?

Of course, I've been advised that being a GM while intoxicated makes the game - strange.

Sure. That'll work.

Depends on what you've been inbibing, don't it?

[rharbers]

Originally Posted by Tricky

That's interesting. The vast majority of pagans I know are former Christians. I guess the One True Goddess has the power to turn people around too!

Interesting thought. My own experience was simply by reading the bible without any influence from anyone. After a while you just realize that the whole thing is quite ugly, mean spirited, and so contradictory that it leaves a thinking person stunned.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by zaayrdragon

Favorite sport? Can RPGs be considered sports? Can 'The Heroes' be considered my favorite team?

Of course, I've been advised that being a GM while intoxicated makes the game - strange.

I tried drinking last time we played, and I definitely failed my fortitude save there.

[Psi Baba]

Originally Posted by Tricky

That's interesting. The vast majority of pagans I know are former Christians. I guess the One True Goddess has the power to turn people around too!

I'd say so. As a former Catholic who is now atheist, if I were to choose a religion, it would be paganism, as I find it to be the only one that makes any sense (insofar as religions make sense).

Originally Posted by Upchurch

While the ultimate origin is pegan, giving presents to children on Christmas has a legitimately Christian symbolism, i.e. the wise men's gifts.

That was a Victorian add-on, however. Old-time (or Olde Tyme) Christmas was mainly an adult festival, with Father Christmas being the spirit of revelry and was not described as a gift-giver. It was the Victorians in England who steered Christmas in the direction of being a holiday for children. Americans turned St. Nicholas into Santa Claus, and the English remodeled Father Christmas after the American Santa Claus. Prince Albert brought the Christmas tree to England from Germany and because of an artist's illustrations of the Royal Family around this new-fangled decorated Christmas Tree the custom caught on and spread quickly. And soon, a "family Christmas" with children and presents on a Christmas tree became the "traditional Christmas" even though it was fairly new.

I love celebrating Christmas, but it's the pagan and other pre-Christian aspects that I enjoy. I love seeing delicate lights on houses and trees glimmering through the cold of a winter night. I love having the house filled with objects that are there for the sole purpose of saying "Look at me! I'm festive." I love Christmas music--can't get enough of it. I enjoy eating chocolate candies just because they are wrapped in red and green foil instead of the regular colors. I even have nativity scenes under my Christmas trees. It doesn't mean I believe what it symbolizes--to me it's all part of the mythology of the whole seasonal celebration. It's no different than images of Santa Claus. I'm an equal opportunity Solstice celebrant! But the figures of the baby Jesus, wise men, and manger are no more real to me than the figures on the other side of the room of Gollum, the Argonath and Minas Tirith from the Lord of the Rings DVDs sets. I would love someday to travel to Great Britain and observe a Mari Lwyd ceremony in Wales and go wassailing apple trees in Somerset.

What we celebrate as Christmas today (especially in America) is an acretion of multiple holidays, traditions, customs, and trappings some aspects of which are still in their original forms, some hybrids, and some completely morphed from one thing into another. Too religious? Too commercial? Bah! People need to lighten up and just have fun. Take what you want from it or take nothing at all. What does it matter?

Yesterday we had a "wintry mix" of snow, sleet, ice, and rain, and I heard someone joke, "Don't worry, Spring is almost here!" Someone always makes this joke when Winter is just getting started, and my immediate thought is always, "Yes, the coming of Spring. THAT is the reason for the season."

[Complexity]

kurious kathy - You've left such a bad taste in my mouth, I'm going to see Brokeback Mountain this afternoon.

I think I'll see it again on Newton Day, too.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.

Well, I'm no Wiccan or Satanist but I am an atheist who was turned around 360 degrees by the power of Jesus.