Lew Rockwell on the "war on Christmas"

billydkid · 15th December 2005, 02:48 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/...christmas.html

TobiasTheViking · 15th December 2005, 02:49 PM

how informative :/

The Central Scrutinizer · 15th December 2005, 03:46 PM

When is he going to write an article explaining why the Libertarian Party is such a failure?

billydkid · 15th December 2005, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

When is he going to write an article explaining why the Libertarian Party is such a failure?

Wow, good one CS. You really got me with that one.

billydkid · 15th December 2005, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by TobiasTheCommie

how informative :/

I have no idea what you are talking about. You thought the article was boring and pointless, fine. I thought it did a good job of pointing out the idiocy of those crying about how we are destroying the meaning of Christmas. and what is the point of that quote you inserted into you post?

Libertarian · 15th December 2005, 05:07 PM

Does this count?

http://www.mises.org/story/1499

It is a long struggle but it is the way the struggle for liberty has always taken place. But somewhere along the way, some people, enticed by the prospect of a fast track to reform, rethought this idea. Perhaps we should try the same technique that the left did. We should get our people in power and displace their people, and then we can bring about change toward liberty. In fact, isn't this the most important goal of all? So long as the left controls the state, it will expand in ways that are incompatible with freedom. We need to take back the state.

So goes the logic. What is wrong with it? The state's only function is as an apparatus of coercion and compulsion. That is its distinguishing mark. It is what makes the state the state. To the same extent that the state responds well to arguments that it should be larger and more powerful, it is institutionally hostile to anyone who says that it should be less powerful and less coercive. That is not to say that some work from the "inside" cannot do some good, some of the time. But it is far more likely that the state will convert the libertarian than for the libertarian to convert the state.

billydkid · 15th December 2005, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Libertarian

Does this count?

http://www.mises.org/story/1499

It is a long struggle but it is the way the struggle for liberty has always taken place. But somewhere along the way, some people, enticed by the prospect of a fast track to reform, rethought this idea. Perhaps we should try the same technique that the left did. We should get our people in power and displace their people, and then we can bring about change toward liberty. In fact, isn't this the most important goal of all? So long as the left controls the state, it will expand in ways that are incompatible with freedom. We need to take back the state.

So goes the logic. What is wrong with it? The state's only function is as an apparatus of coercion and compulsion. That is its distinguishing mark. It is what makes the state the state. To the same extent that the state responds well to arguments that it should be larger and more powerful, it is institutionally hostile to anyone who says that it should be less powerful and less coercive. That is not to say that some work from the "inside" cannot do some good, some of the time. But it is far more likely that the state will convert the libertarian than for the libertarian to convert the state.

You know, it strikes me as extremely odd that so many people in here reserve their most vehement contempt for libertarians - a group of people who's agenda consists entirely and essentially of promoting individual liberty and protecting the basic rights of citizens - and yet other groups -say, the Greens or the Rights for Animals parties or even that Ross Perot party and other parties that actually do have radical agendas - are given a pass. The Libertarian agenda is not very radical at all and emphasizes those values this country was supposedly founded on and yet it inspires utter hatred in many people. I have to say I find it very confusing. The libertarians simply wants to hold the state to same moral standards that individuals are held to.

Libertarian · 15th December 2005, 05:31 PM

Good point. Afterall, there is no such thing as a "group." There are only individuals.

It seems people feel threatened by libertarianism, for some reason. I think it's due to the perceived risk associated with it.

15th December 2005, 02:48 PM	#1
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Lew Rockwell on the "war on Christmas" http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/...christmas.html

15th December 2005, 02:49 PM	#2
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	how informative :/
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

15th December 2005, 03:46 PM	#3
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,277	When is he going to write an article explaining why the Libertarian Party is such a failure?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

15th December 2005, 05:07 PM	#6
Libertarian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 248	Does this count? http://www.mises.org/story/1499 It is a long struggle but it is the way the struggle for liberty has always taken place. But somewhere along the way, some people, enticed by the prospect of a fast track to reform, rethought this idea. Perhaps we should try the same technique that the left did. We should get our people in power and displace their people, and then we can bring about change toward liberty. In fact, isn't this the most important goal of all? So long as the left controls the state, it will expand in ways that are incompatible with freedom. We need to take back the state. So goes the logic. What is wrong with it? The state's only function is as an apparatus of coercion and compulsion. That is its distinguishing mark. It is what makes the state the state. To the same extent that the state responds well to arguments that it should be larger and more powerful, it is institutionally hostile to anyone who says that it should be less powerful and less coercive. That is not to say that some work from the "inside" cannot do some good, some of the time. But it is far more likely that the state will convert the libertarian than for the libertarian to convert the state.
Libertarian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 248	__________________ "Making fun of born-again christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope." -- P. J. O'Rourke "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." -- G. Norquist

15th December 2005, 05:31 PM	#8
Libertarian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 248	Good point. Afterall, there is no such thing as a "group." There are only individuals. It seems people feel threatened by libertarianism, for some reason. I think it's due to the perceived risk associated with it.
Libertarian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 248	__________________ "Making fun of born-again christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope." -- P. J. O'Rourke "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." -- G. Norquist

15th December 2005, 04:58 PM	#4
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer When is he going to write an article explaining why the Libertarian Party is such a failure? Wow, good one CS. You really got me with that one.

15th December 2005, 05:00 PM	#5
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by TobiasTheCommie how informative :/ I have no idea what you are talking about. You thought the article was boring and pointless, fine. I thought it did a good job of pointing out the idiocy of those crying about how we are destroying the meaning of Christmas. and what is the point of that quote you inserted into you post?

15th December 2005, 05:25 PM	#7
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by Libertarian Does this count? http://www.mises.org/story/1499 It is a long struggle but it is the way the struggle for liberty has always taken place. But somewhere along the way, some people, enticed by the prospect of a fast track to reform, rethought this idea. Perhaps we should try the same technique that the left did. We should get our people in power and displace their people, and then we can bring about change toward liberty. In fact, isn't this the most important goal of all? So long as the left controls the state, it will expand in ways that are incompatible with freedom. We need to take back the state. So goes the logic. What is wrong with it? The state's only function is as an apparatus of coercion and compulsion. That is its distinguishing mark. It is what makes the state the state. To the same extent that the state responds well to arguments that it should be larger and more powerful, it is institutionally hostile to anyone who says that it should be less powerful and less coercive. That is not to say that some work from the "inside" cannot do some good, some of the time. But it is far more likely that the state will convert the libertarian than for the libertarian to convert the state. You know, it strikes me as extremely odd that so many people in here reserve their most vehement contempt for libertarians - a group of people who's agenda consists entirely and essentially of promoting individual liberty and protecting the basic rights of citizens - and yet other groups -say, the Greens or the Rights for Animals parties or even that Ross Perot party and other parties that actually do have radical agendas - are given a pass. The Libertarian agenda is not very radical at all and emphasizes those values this country was supposedly founded on and yet it inspires utter hatred in many people. I have to say I find it very confusing. The libertarians simply wants to hold the state to same moral standards that individuals are held to.