The Scots, Responsible for the Modern World

[headscratcher4]

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/paperboy.cfm?id=126552003

Well, if the Irish saved civilization, why not? I saw this article and have never heard of this before. I thought it was interesting -- sort of a James Burke (?) Connections kind of thing. Anyone familiar with the history of technology or of the Scotish Enlightenment know of this? Is this a credible story or an nationalistic overstatement?

(P.s. I am not Scotish, though MacCallen (sp?) 18 isd pretty fine...)

[Goshawk]

Well, he definitely invented the Internet.

Quote:

The author’s imagined device...involved 26 parallel lengths of wire, one for each letter of the alphabet.

In the article, CM described how electric current could be applied to one wire at a time to electrify a ball at the other end. This would cause a piece of paper with the name of that letter to move, so a message could be spelled out.

Yep, that's MSN all right.

My ancestors came from Scotland to the US over 300 years ago. My last name, Burns, is Gaelic for "He who lives by the water."

The Scottish responsible for civilization? Sounds good to me.

[jj]

Heck, just look where all the good practical engineers came from!

And yes, my family name is from the Annandale/Moffat area.

[Major Billy]

Quote:

Originally posted by jj
Heck, just look where all the good practical engineers came from!

Nazi Germany?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by headscratcher4
http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/paperboy.cfm?id=126552003

Well, if the Irish saved civilization, why not? I saw this article and have never heard of this before. I thought it was interesting -- sort of a James Burke (?) Connections kind of thing. Anyone familiar with the history of technology or of the Scotish Enlightenment know of this? Is this a credible story or an nationalistic overstatement?

(P.s. I am not Scotish, though MacCallen (sp?) 18 isd pretty fine...)

Check out this book.

[Jon_in_london]

Kilts and haggis? civilization? uh-huh?

No, seriously, a good many inventions have been made by scots so credit where its due but this seems a tad optimistic.

And haggis?

[Agammamon]

What?! Those carrot faced, thistle arsed orangutans?


(from The Black Adder)

Quote:

Originally posted by headscratcher4
Anyone familiar with the history of technology or of the Scotish Enlightenment know of this? Is this a credible story or an nationalistic overstatement?

The Modern World wasn't invented by the scots. It was invented by the English - the Scots just helped a bit.

My understanding of it.....

At the time it was the French who had historically been the most important nation on Earth, but there were a couple of factors working against them. Firstly France was still a monarchy and there was no acknowledgement that the democratic experiment being conducted on the other side of 'La Manche' was anything but a temporary abberation. Secondly the British Isles was endowed not only with what was then the most advanced political system on Earth and a wealth of ground-breaking scientists and engineers, but also the most geologically diverse landscape for such a small area anywhere on the planet. Critically we had coal, limestone, iron ore and a terrain and water supply which enabled the development of an network of inland waterways never rivalled before or after. So for 40 years before the advent of the railways the canals in the industrial heartlands of England allowed us to race ahead when the most advanced form of transport anywhere else on the planet was the horse and cart.

[Kilted_Canuck]

I would just say that alot of Canadian Culture is due to the scots, maybe thats why we're just so darnded nice

If it weren't for the ingrediants list, many more people would eat haggis, it tastes better than McDonald's hamburger, but it is a bit more greasy.

My local pub serves haggis, neeps and tatties every Burns night ... and it's damn good! ... but what I can't forgive the Scots for is ...






GOLF!!!

Was it Mark Twain that said "golf is a good walk spoiled"? or am I thinking of someone else?

[Shane Costello]

Anyone ever see "Trainspotting"? Remember the "It's ***** being Scottish" scene?

[Ove]

Just you wait, any minute now everybody will suddenly wear a Kilt, have a large red beard and then start marching towards the Scottish border playing the bagpipe.

[Soapy Sam]

It's true. The Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, Modern Science, Telephones, Television, Deep Fried Mars Bars, It's all our fault. We apologise.

nb- Ove, Celts don't have red hair. Scots and Irish folk with red hair, blue eyes and freckles are generally descended from women who lived on the coast and didn't run away fast enough when the Danes came to visit.

[Star Of The Sea]

Classic Scottish Teatowel:

The average Englishman in the home he call his castle slips into his national costume, a shabby raincoat, patented by Chemist Charles Macintosh from Glasgow, Scotland.

En-route to his office he strides along the English lane, surfaced by John Macadam of Ayr, Scotland.

He drives an English car fitted with tyres invented by John Boyd Dunlop, Veterinary Surgeon of Dreghorn, Scotland.

At the office he receives the mail bearing adhesive stamps invented by John Chalmers, Bookseller and Printer of Dundee, Scotland.

During the day he uses the telephone invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland. At home in the evening his daughter pedals her bicycle invented by Kirkpatrick Macmillan, Blacksmith of Thornhill, Dumfriesshire, Scotland.

He watches the news on television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland, and hears an item about the U.S. Navy founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland.

Nowhere can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots.

He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks up the Bible, only to find that the first man mentioned in the good book is a Scot, King James VI, who authorized its translation.

He could take to drink but the Scots make the best in the world.

He could take a rifle and end it all, but the breech-loading rifle was invented by Captain Patrick Ferguson of Pitfours, Scotland.

If he escaped death, he could find himself on an operating table injected with penicillin, discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming of Darvel, Scotland, and given chloroform, an anesthetic discovered by Sir James Young Simpson, Obstetrician and Gynecologist of Bathgate, Scotland.

Out of the anesthetic he would find no comfort in learning that he was as safe as the Bank of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries, Scotland.

Perhaps his only remaining hope would be to get a transfusion of guid Scottish blood which would entitle him to ask:

"Wha's Like Us?"




Luke

[jj]

Quote:

Originally posted by Major Billy


Nazi Germany?

You are like so very unfunny....

[Ove]

Quote:

nb- Ove, Celts don't have red hair. Scots and Irish folk with red hair, blue eyes and freckles are generally descended from women who lived on the coast and didn't run away fast enough when the Danes came to visit.

Well, i haven't got red hair so it couldn't be my ancestors. But seriously i was referring to a Monty Python scetch and it is possible my memory fails me.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Star of the Sea:

Quote:

He watches the news on television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland, and hears an item about the U.S. Navy founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland.

The father of the US Navy is John Barry, who was originally from Wexford, Ireland.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Star Of The Sea
Nowhere can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots.

He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks

The mistake you Scots make is in thinking we, the English actually give a toss about you. We dont.

Everybody knows that Scots have a massive inferiority complex because the English are actually better than you are. Thats why hating the English is a national pastime north of the border. Thats why you have to have tea-towels that deride the English. We dont have tea towels to deride you. We know what you are and take it as read.

Down here, we dont care about you. You arent important enough to care about! Some Scots want an independent Scotland. I would agree to this. Then you can all piss off and stop whinging and whining the whole time. You will all then have plenty of time to sit around a peat fire in your cold, wet terminally depressed and generally non-viable 'country', watching Braveheart, wearing kilts, eating oats & haggis, sipping whisky and hating the English to your peurile, childish, highland heart's content.

[headscratcher4]

Quote:

He watches the news on television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland,

Ach, the kith an'a kin o' Philo Farnsworth of ol' Utah, might'a takee issue wit'a dat statement....(sounds more Pirate than'a Scot...but I'm from Michingan and it is full of Finns).

[Agammamon]

MacAngus "I hope ye won't be bored, nae able to pass laws over Scotland any more."
The Black Adder (in a snide wispered aside)"Iwouldn't pass water over Scotland."

[Soapy Sam]

I was told as a kid that Pontius Pilate came from Scotland, his father being a Roman Centurion who married a local girl. I was in my thirties before I found there are similar legends in at least six other European countries. I'm not even sure the Romans had permanent bases in Scotland around 40 BC. I doubt it.
I know John Paul Jones was certainly involved with the American Revolutionary Navy. (And later, with the Russian one, I believe).
I wonder if there is a "Father of the US Navy"in every country in Europe as well.

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


The mistake you Scots make is in thinking we, the English actually give a toss about you. We dont.

Everybody knows that Scots have a massive inferiority complex because the English are actually better than you are. Thats why hating the English is a national pastime north of the border. Thats why you have to have tea-towels that deride the English. We dont have tea towels to deride you. We know what you are and take it as read.

Down here, we dont care about you. You arent important enough to care about! Some Scots want an independent Scotland. I would agree to this. Then you can all piss off and stop whinging and whining the whole time. You will all then have plenty of time to sit around a peat fire in your cold, wet terminally depressed and generally non-viable 'country', watching Braveheart, wearing kilts, eating oats & haggis, sipping whisky and hating the English to your peurile, childish, highland heart's content.

And you believe that this applies to all Scots, yes?

[kittynh]

remember, "If it's not Scottish, it's CRAP!"

I also like my clan motto, "Touch not the Cat Without a Glove."

I had a chance to take out John Major once...
but I wasn't in my radical membership phase of the SRA...
sigh...

Craig, if Star Of The Sea is allowed her patriotism, so is Jon_in_london.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


The mistake you Scots make is in thinking we, the English actually give a toss about you. We dont.

Everybody knows that Scots have a massive inferiority complex because the English are actually better than you are. Thats why hating the English is a national pastime north of the border. Thats why you have to have tea-towels that deride the English. We dont have tea towels to deride you. We know what you are and take it as read.

Down here, we dont care about you. You arent important enough to care about! Some Scots want an independent Scotland. I would agree to this. Then you can all piss off and stop whinging and whining the whole time. You will all then have plenty of time to sit around a peat fire in your cold, wet terminally depressed and generally non-viable 'country', watching Braveheart, wearing kilts, eating oats & haggis, sipping whisky and hating the English to your peurile, childish, highland heart's content.

Are you saying that Canadian Scots (Kilted Canucks) have a massive inferiority complex from having a double whammy of this 'inferiority complex.


Scots have better music, culture, food, and booze than any limey.

-----------------------------------------------------------
My Clan's motto is Aut Pax aut Bellum, meaning "Either Peace or War" which seems to make little sense.

My Highland Snare Drum Case has a Bumper sticker that says: "If its Neigh Scottish, it Crr~rap!"

[jj]

Numquam nihil preparandum.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by jj
Numquam nihil preparandum.

Curly: Those are fighting words in my country!!!
Moe: Well???
Curly: We're not in my country!!! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk....

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Scots have better music, culture, food, and booze than any limey

Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Oh no! stop! my sides are splitting!!

[Soapy Sam]

I used to work with a good old boy from the deep south who decided Scots were "Limey Hillbillies". I rather liked that.

Hey Jon - you realise your aggression is because, deep down inside, you know you're a "latent" Scotsman?

By the way, any of you expatriate billionaire Scots want to buy a parliament building? Because I've got one for sale. And I'll throw in a couple of hundred free MSP* s to sweeten the deal.

*MSP Member of Scottish Parliament. Read corrupt town council, writ large.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Hey Jon - you realise your aggression is because, deep down inside, you know you're a "latent" Scotsman?

Ok, Ill admit it. I have to get it off my chest *sob*

It was in a dark and dingy pub in the deepest south (of london).
It was my 'friends' that got me into it. The huge plate of steaming haggis "go on, just try the neeps" they said.... "Its dirty but you know you want it"..........

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
The huge plate of steaming haggis "go on, just try the neeps" they said.... "Its dirty but you know you want it"..........

And I bet you do Pot Noodle, too! I'm disgusted!

Edited to add a comma...yes, it was annoying me.

Edited again because I forgot to actually add said comma...

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig


And I bet you do Pot Noodle too! I'm disgusted!

Please... Please! dont tell my wife!

[DrMatt]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Kilts and haggis? civilization? uh-huh?

No, seriously, a good many inventions have been made by scots so credit where its due but this seems a tad optimistic.

And haggis?

Haggis is just an adaptation to local circumstances of kishke, a sort of fake sausage made of grain stewed in juices of a tiny amount of meat. Kishke was popularized in Russia and eastern Europe, and was brought west primarily by Jews. It's pretty disgusting, and you can get it in restaurants in New York, Chicago, maybe even Los Angeles, where it's served as an expensive delicacy instead of the meat-stretcher that it originally was.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shane Costello
Anyone ever see "Trainspotting"? Remember the "It's ***** being Scottish" scene?

You know, honestly, that movie is the only thing I've been able to think about since first reading through this thread.

[Craig]

Every time I hear the word "haggis" the first thing that springs to mind is the process of Egyptian mummification.

I'm not sure if this says more about me or the haggis.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by tcwolf:

Quote:

You know, honestly, that movie is the only thing I've been able to think about since first reading through this thread.

In which case it's a ***** state of affairs, and all the f*****g fresh air in Scotland isn't going to change it!

[headscratcher4]

But...would someone please tell me if the original article I cited has any merit...is this device realistically considered a key in the development of modern communications technology? Once someone provides a view on that issue, you can go back to your Scot/Brit bashing all you want

[Soapy Sam]

Headscratcher- the honest answer is - Not a clue. I saw the article in "The Scotsman" in Edinburgh a week or so ago and wondered about it's authenticity myself. My suspicion is that there were many "home experimentalists" around at the time, in Scotland, England and France particularly, with not a few in the American colonies-it was an age of interest in "philosophy", particularly electricity. Some wrote their stuff up or had contacts who did, others merely tinkered and were quickly forgotten. I find nothing surprising about the technology. It seems in keeping with the spirit of the time.

I'm currently a long way from home. When I get back, (March), I think I will try a couple of University libraries and see if I can find any more about this- but as you know, there is very little to go on.

Edited to add- But no, if the device ever existed, it appears to have no actual significance in the evolution of communications technology.

By the way, Jon-in-London. I used to have one of THOSE tea towels: It was made in Birmingham! While the anti-English jokes so common in Scotland are just that- jokes- I do get a bit upset at people who seem to think that bashing the English as a whole is somehow more acceptable than other forms of racism. And it is racism. It cuts both ways, as you know. In particular, now we have our own "Parliament", we can no longer get away with blaming Whitehall for all our problems. This has to be good for everybody. Believe me, as someone who has knocked about the world long enough to get the corners knocked off, the thing that annoys me most about my countrymen is our petty parochialism.

(Grabs tin hat and dives under table.)

[Jon_in_london]

Soapy Sam:

I like you.