The Wild World of Hallucinations

[Hypnagogiac]

Well, this here's my first thread. I dunno if anyone has stumbled across this page before, but its really amazing (at least I think so) : Spirit of Prophecy. Apparently the author has some serious undiagnosed schizophrenia, but it really paints an amazing picture of the kinds of hallucinations some people suffer.

I could never understand what hallucinations were until I started experimenting with acid & mushrooms in high school, and later when I had my first bout of sleep paralysis. But the stuff that this woman saw goes far, far beyond any of that. Ultimately its very sad, because reality has been so terribly obscured for her that I wonder if treatment is even possible at this point. I imagine she could be a tremendous artist (in fact she still could) but the paranoia of her religious visions will probably keep her isolated.

Anyway, for all intents & purposes, I found her descriptions to be utterly fascinating. Especially read her visit to Hell. I imagine that most religious patriarchs/prophets/whatever suffered from similar hallucinations, so I can't really blame them for believing it to be real. Psychology & science have come a long way in the last century, and I wonder if the momentum of religion is going too fast to even slow down.

But anyway, I thought I'd share the link. What do you think?
(warning: this site insists on playing bad midi music!)

[c4ts]

Quote:

Just as a branch forms from a tree, virtually from nothing, which is truly a miracle in itself, if you had taken the time to see.

Theophrastus would be turning in his grave, if he hadn't decomposed so thoroughly over more than 2000 years.

[c4ts]

Quote:

You judge homosexuals and those who are sinners in your own eyes, but cannot see true sin, because of the plank in your own eye, money lover, sabbath profaner, self serving lovers of lies. You were told not to judge, therefore, you will be judged. You want homosexuals to stop sinning, but you heterosexuals still love having sex for pleasure, and want to continue in your sin while accusing others and pointing fingers and judging. Any sex other than procreation is lust and it is sin. Why is your sin more important than your obedience? HOW DO YOU THINK YOU WILL GET AWAY WITH PROFANING GOD, AND SUFFER NO CONSEQUENCE?

This is what was told to you about money, but you ignored it, because you love money.

I'm beginning to think that if there were a god which cared a lot about humanity, He would strike people like this woo woo down.

[Hypnagogiac]

Quote:

We were going up to the clouds when I saw Him, the Holy most precious Father, standing on a cloud enveloped of heavenly massive computer equipment. I gather this was the area of control..........He was so precious, dressed in suspenders, red pants and long johns, He had a long white beard, with a jolly old belly and I realized that that is where man was inspired by the Holy Spirit for the image of Santa Claus, because he looks just like Him. And of course, it makes sense, Santa comes without being seen and gives gifts to His good children, just because He loves them. I never saw anyone so adorable in all my life.

Santa-God loves woo-woo's.

[c4ts]

LOL

That pretty much describes it.

[Dancing David]

Hey don't don't smirch Santa/easter Bunny with that blood soaked Sinai dust devil!

Yeah well, one of the 'hallmarks' of schizophrenia is religiosity. Makes me feel that the moansteries of the middle ages were like mental institutions.

Peace
dancing david

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hypnagogiac
[b]Well, this here's my first thread. I dunno if anyone has stumbled across this page before, but its really amazing (at least I think so) : Spirit of Prophecy. Apparently the author has some serious undiagnosed schizophrenia, but it really paints an amazing picture of the kinds of hallucinations some people suffer.

I am just wondering why this person does not state their beliefs instead of hiding behind a mask of "Thus said God". They must evidently truly believe they are getting these messages from God. It is obviously coming from their own subconsciousness without them realizing. There is so much abuse in Christian circles from those who are certain they are hearing from God.

Her whole thing on the Rapture....http://dorewilliamson.com/rapture.html.........is nonsense! I agree that the Rapture has been misunderstood and ill-taught, but I don't agree with her statements on reincarnation being biblical and something that clarifies a belief against a Rapture teaching.

The *Jesus* she portrays is angry and irritable. That personality is not like scripture portrayal. She should at least study scripture and get His personality right!

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts


I'm beginning to think that if there were a god which cared a lot about humanity, He would strike people like this woo woo down.

I saw this statement too..."Any sex other than procreation is lust and it is sin." I can't believe she said that and claims it came from God. That is utter nonsense!! She needs to read Song of Solomon, which is a very erotic book of the bible........talk about foreplay..........that book is awesome!!

Still, there are those who try to say the Song of Solomon is an allergory...which it isn't, but there are many Christians who cannot accept that a book of such sensuality and eroticism is in the bible.

There isn't a scripture, that I know of, that teaches sex is only for procreation. If anything, scripture promotes sex as fun and enjoyable.

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruby

They must evidently truly believe they are getting these messages from God. It is obviously coming from their own subconsciousness without them realizing. There is so much abuse in Christian circles from those who are certain they are hearing from God.

What? Unlike the people who put together this book?


Why are you so certain, that anyone who claims they are hearing from God, is not?

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruby
The *Jesus* she portrays is angry and irritable. That personality is not like scripture portrayal. She should at least study scripture and get His personality right!
[/color]

There are some who think Jesus was a bit angry in this story.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark 11:
12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is really interesting that Jesus exepected figs to be on a tree when.. " ... for the time of figs was not yet. "..

And then had a fit when there were not any..

What part of scripture gives you clues about Jesus' personality?

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes


What? Unlike the people who put together this book?

Ummmmm.....I don't want to get away from topic at hand. I'm still going through a process of evaluating my beliefs. I am questioning the bible's validity, but have not reached any conclusions on it....and don't want to debate it or argue about it when I have too many questions. I can only say that it is the book for Christianity, and if someone is going to claim to hear from Jesus, they need to make sure it adds up according to scripture. Otherwise, they are being false to Christianity itself.

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruby
Ummmmm.....I don't want to get away from topic at hand.

.. and that was .. "The Wild World of Hallucinations".. The last time I checked..
You seem to have decided one group is hallucinating and another is not..

I'm still going through a process of evaluating my beliefs. I am questioning the bible's validity, but have not reached any conclusions on it....and don't want to debate it or argue about it when I have too many questions. I can only say that it is the book for Christianity, and if someone is going to claim to hear from Jesus, they need to make sure it adds up according to scripture.

And how would you suggest they " make sure "? Would a message from God work? Oh.. but, if they are getting messages from God, they must be hallucinating..
Sounds complicated..

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes
There are some who think Jesus was a bit angry in this story.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark 11:
12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is really interesting that Jesus exepected figs to be on a tree when.. " ... for the time of figs was not yet. "..

And then had a fit when there were not any..

What part of scripture gives you clues about Jesus' personality?

Ok, ok.. I never said Jesus did not ever get angry. I was just trying to say that the person was portraying Jesus as an angry and irritable person. That is, angry on the whole. There are far more biblical examples of him being kind and gentle than there are of him being angry.

Here are some better examples of the character of Jesus;

Matthew 5:38-45 " You have heard that it was said, ' AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. "Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
" You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. "

Matthew 11:28-30..Jesus speaking "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Luke 9: 46-56 " An argument started among them as to which of them might be the greatest. But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side,
and said to them, " Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; [b[ for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great."[/b] John answered and said, " Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."
But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you." When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem;
and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him. But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem. When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?" But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village."

Luke 10:30-37 "Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead.
"And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. "But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."

John 11:1-44 "A man named Lazarus was sick. He lived in Bethany with his sisters, Mary and Martha. This is the Mary who poured the expensive perfume on the Lord's feet and wiped them with her hair. Her brother, Lazarus, was sick. So the two sisters sent a message to Jesus telling him, "Lord, the one you love is very sick."But when Jesus heard about it he said, "Lazarus's sickness will not end in death. No, it is for the glory of God. I, the Son of God, will receive glory from this." Although Jesus loved Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, he stayed where he was for the next two days and did not go to them. Finally after two days, he said to his disciples, "Let's go to Judea again."But his disciples objected. "Teacher," they said, "only a few days ago the Jewish leaders in Judea were trying to kill you. Are you going there again?"Jesus replied, "There are twelve hours of daylight every day. As long as it is light, people can walk safely. They can see because they have the light of this world. Only at night is there danger of stumbling because there is no light." Then he said, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up."The disciples said, "Lord, if he is sleeping, that means he is getting better!" They thought Jesus meant Lazarus was having a good night's rest, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died. Then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead. And for your sake, I am glad I wasn't there, because this will give you another opportunity to believe in me. Come, let's go see him."Thomas, nicknamed the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, "Let's go, too--and die with Jesus."When Jesus arrived at Bethany, he was told that Lazarus had already been in his grave for four days. Bethany was only a few miles down the road from Jerusalem, and many of the people had come to pay their respects and console Martha and Mary on their loss. When Martha got word that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him. But Mary stayed at home. Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask."Jesus told her, "Your brother will rise again.""Yes," Martha said, "when everyone else rises, on resurrection day."
Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die like everyone else, will live again. They are given eternal life for believing in me and will never perish. Do you believe this, Martha?""Yes, Lord," she told him. "I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God." Then she left him and returned to Mary. She called Mary aside from the mourners and told her, "The Teacher is here and wants to see you." So Mary immediately went to him.Now Jesus had stayed outside the village, at the place where Martha met him. When the people who were at the house trying to console Mary saw her leave so hastily, they assumed she was going to Lazarus's grave to weep. So they followed her there. When Mary arrived and saw Jesus, she fell down at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."When Jesus saw her weeping and saw the other people wailing with her, he was moved with indignation and was deeply troubled. "Where have you put him?" he asked them. They told him, "Lord, come and see." Then Jesus wept. The people who were standing nearby said, "See how much he loved him." But some said, "This man healed a blind man. Why couldn't he keep Lazarus from dying?"And again Jesus was deeply troubled. Then they came to the grave. It was a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance. "Roll the stone aside," Jesus told them. But Martha, the dead man's sister, said, "Lord, by now the smell will be terrible because he has been dead for four days."
Jesus responded, "Didn't I tell you that you will see God's glory if you believe?" So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, "Father, thank you for hearing me. You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so they will believe you sent me." Then Jesus shouted, "Lazarus, come out!" And Lazarus came out, bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, "Unwrap him and let him go!"

John 8:1-11 "Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees brought a woman they had caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd."Teacher," they said to Jesus, "this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?"They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, "All right, stone her. But let those who have never sinned throw the first stones!" Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to her, "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?""No, Lord," she said. And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes
Originally posted by Ruby
Ummmmm.....I don't want to get away from topic at hand.

.. and that was .. "The Wild World of Hallucinations".. The last time I checked..
You seem to have decided one group is hallucinating and another is not..

Whatever!

Quote:

I'm still going through a process of evaluating my beliefs. I am questioning the bible's validity, but have not reached any conclusions on it....and don't want to debate it or argue about it when I have too many questions. I can only say that it is the book for Christianity, and if someone is going to claim to hear from Jesus, they need to make sure it adds up according to scripture.

And how would you suggest they " make sure "? Would a message from God work? Oh.. but, if they are getting messages from God, they must be hallucinating..
Sounds complicated..

I don't really believe in messages from God anymore...at least...I am skeptical. I never used the term "hallucinating". I said that they were probably hearing from their subconscious.

[Sundog]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes
There are some who think Jesus was a bit angry in this story.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark 11:
12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

Your point is nonexistent as usual, but that's interesting. I never thought about that passage before.

Why was Jesus so angry? An obvious overreaction (and very human) - why? (Because he WAS human?) Having a bad day?

Why didn't Jesus know that the fig tree was out of season, and why did he not know there were no figs on it anyway? Is his omniscience of a lesser quality than God's, whom we presume knows all?

Interesting - but off-topic, sorry.

"I used to take acid and get hallucinations. One day I saw God. He told me to stop taking acid. "(Fat Freddie?)

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog


Your point is nonexistent as usual, but that's interesting. I never thought about that passage before.



Interesting - but off-topic, sorry.

I responded to this statement by Ruby:

Quote:

The *Jesus* she portrays is angry and irritable. That personality is not like scripture portrayal. She should at least study scripture and get His personality right!

Must we make a new thread if the discussion strays from the original subject?


My point ' nonexistant '? Well it certainly exists. Your failure to get it, is certainly usual..


P.S. I still love you...

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog


No, no! YOU weren't off topic, I was.

I have to tease you somehow in every post or I don't feel I'm doing my job.

I feel neglected when you don't! Keep up the good work!

[Skeptical Greg]

Ruby,
I resisted the urge to paste lengthy scriptures that depict Jesus as less than a gentle loving soul.

What you pasted was not a portrayal of Jesus behavior, so much as an example of what he suggested, as to how other people should behave. i.e.. do as I say.. etc...

Much of Christendom says that God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all the same being. I can paste pages depicting the bad behavior of God, as portrayed in the Bible that you say "is the book for Christianity "..

Or would you say that these (the ones who hold to the trinity doctrine) Christians are just another group that has it wrong?

[Hypnagogiac]

Re: Jesus being unpleasant.

Afterall, he did say "I did not come to bring peace but a sword."
So much for being the "Prince of Peace." Of course his dad is much worse. But then again, if he is his dad....well everything's gone screwy.

Another weird Jesus-reaction (I'll have to look it up, I can't remember the verse) is where he puts a bunch of evil spirits into a town's pigs & runs them off of a cliff. As I recall, the villagers immediately kicked him out of town- Afterall, he just killed a bunch of their livestock/food/livelihood. Couldn't he have at least put the evil spirits into those barren fig trees? Or maybe into the town's rat population? They would have loved him for that.
Just some more questionable divine judgment.

Anyway, you can devote an entire forum to religious debate (
internet infidels being my favorite) but in the end it can only be a personal decision.

I had posted the Spirit of Prophecy link because
(1) I'm in a stalemate debate regarding hallucinations & religious texts in a christian forum
&(2) Because if I had a vision where an angel (dressed like a postman) took me up to heaven to see God (sitting at his computer) then down into Hell (which is one big pub)- I would be pretty impressed with my brain.
-------------------------------------------------
(Non-sequitr: The other night I woke up & all I could hear was a voice whispering loud gibberish into my ear. I thought: "Oh my god, well its finally happened, I've gone insane." But after a few moments the whispering blended into the hum of the furnace (i live in a basement apt) and was gone. It was quite a relief. I knew a girl once who was a bit schizophrenic -- once & awhile voices would just start berating her. I can't imagine having to put up with that, but at the very least she never had wild, vivid hallucinations of heaven & hell.)

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes
Ruby,
I resisted the urge to paste lengthy scriptures that depict Jesus as less than a gentle loving soul.

It's ok if you did as I've read the bible and I am well aware of places where Jesus got really ticked off. He was especially p'od at the hypocritical Pharisees. I have never denied that Jesus got mad. I was just giving examples of where he showed..or spoke....love and compassion.

Quote:

What you pasted was not a portrayal of Jesus behavior, so much as an example of what he suggested, as to how other people should behave. i.e.. do as I say.. etc...

For one thing, you can find out a lot about a persons character by how they react and speak to others. For another, some of the scriptures I posted spoke volumes about His character. He was compassionate, forgiving, and non-judgmental to the woman who was caught in adultery. He saved her from being stoned to death. He wept over Lazarus.

Quote:

Much of Christendom says that God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all the same being. I can paste pages depicting the bad behavior of God, as portrayed in the Bible that you say "is the book for Christianity "..

Or would you say that these (the ones who hold to the trinity doctrine) Christians are just another group that has it wrong? [/b]

Yes, the bible does indicate that Jesus was God in flesh. I am not a Trinitarian so I don't grasp the full meaning involved in the Trinity doctrine. But, if the bible is true, then Jesus was God in flesh...and yet, Jesus was also a man. I would not be shocked by any passages you quoted showing God's "bad behavior". I am sure they are the same ones I've heard brought up in the past. There are some passages that have been misunderstood. Most Christians would say that God did not have bad behavior, and, if anything, He was patient with His people. As for me, I don't know. As I've said, I am questioning my beliefs.

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hypnagogiac
Re: Jesus being unpleasant.

Afterall, he did say "I did not come to bring peace but a sword."
So much for being the "Prince of Peace." Of course his dad is much worse. But then again, if he is his dad....well everything's gone screwy.

Another weird Jesus-reaction (I'll have to look it up, I can't remember the verse) is where he puts a bunch of evil spirits into a town's pigs & runs them off of a cliff. As I recall, the villagers immediately kicked him out of town- Afterall, he just killed a bunch of their livestock/food/livelihood. Couldn't he have at least put the evil spirits into those barren fig trees? Or maybe into the town's rat population? They would have loved him for that.
Just some more questionable divine judgment.

I like that passage. There were thousands of demons in one poor man!

I don't know of anything in scripture saying that Jesus killed those pigs. I think the pigs went crazy and charged off the cliff and drowned themselves. However, I think Jesus had to know the pigs would do that. He brought sanity back to one really messed up and dangerous guy...it was worth killing pigs to get his sanity back. Jesus was not kicked out of town. However, He was begged to leave. He scared the dickens out of the villagers. It was their fear that caused them to beg him to leave....not losing the pigs.


Here's the passage in question. Luke 8:26-39 "So they arrived in the land of the Gerasenes, across the lake from Galilee. As Jesus was climbing out of the boat, a man who was possessed by demons came out to meet him. Homeless and naked, he had lived in a cemetery for a long time. As soon as he saw Jesus, he shrieked and fell to the ground before him, screaming, "Why are you bothering me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Please, I beg you, don't torture me!" For Jesus had already commanded the evil spirit to come out of him. This spirit had often taken control of the man. Even when he was shackled with chains, he simply broke them and rushed out into the wilderness, completely under the demon's power.
"What is your name?" Jesus asked."Legion," he replied--for the man was filled with many demons. The demons kept begging Jesus not to send them into the Bottomless Pit. A large herd of pigs was feeding on the hillside nearby, and the demons pleaded with him to let them enter into the pigs. Jesus gave them permission. So the demons came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the whole herd plunged down the steep hillside into the lake, where they drowned. When the herdsmen saw it, they fled to the nearby city and the surrounding countryside, spreading the news as they ran. A crowd soon gathered around Jesus, for they wanted to see for themselves what had happened. And they saw the man who had been possessed by demons sitting quietly at Jesus' feet, clothed and sane. And the whole crowd was afraid. Then those who had seen what happened told the others how the demon-possessed man had been healed. And all the people in that region begged Jesus to go away and leave them alone, for a great wave of fear swept over them. So Jesus returned to the boat and left, crossing back to the other side of the lake. The man who had been demon possessed begged to go, too, but Jesus said, "No, go back to your family and tell them all the wonderful things God has done for you." So he went all through the city telling about the great thing Jesus had done for him."

[Ruby]

I had posted the Spirit of Prophecy link because
(1) I'm in a stalemate debate regarding hallucinations & religious texts in a christian forum
&(2) Because if I had a vision where an angel (dressed like a postman) took me up to heaven to see God (sitting at his computer) then down into Hell (which is one big pub)- I would be pretty impressed with my brain.

Where is the forum you are debating in? I'd be interested to check it out.

[Tony]

damn!! I thought this was going to be a thread about LSD.

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruby




I like that passage. There were thousands of demons in one poor man!

I don't know of anything in scripture saying that Jesus killed those pigs. I think the pigs went crazy and charged off the cliff and drowned themselves.

Does your rationalization never cease? Does it really make you feel better about your love for Jesus..You are suggesting Jesus' actions didn't kill the pigs, when they obviously did.

However, I think Jesus had to know the pigs would do that. He brought sanity back to one really messed up and dangerous guy...it was worth killing pigs to get his sanity back.

Easy for you to say, since they weren't your pigs.

Jesus was not kicked out of town. However, He was begged to leave. He scared the dickens out of the villagers. It was their fear that caused them to beg him to leave....not losing the pigs.

Why did Jesus have to disrupt anyone's life, in order to make a point? If he had power over the demons he could have sent them anywhere.
Like Hypnagogiac suggested, maybe send them over to some fig trees he was angry at?

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes

Does your rationalization never cease? Does it really make you feel better about your love for Jesus..You are suggesting Jesus' actions didn't kill the pigs, when they obviously did.

Yes, Jesus' actions did kill the pigs. I don't deny that. Sorry if I am not making myself clear. I was trying to say that Jesus did not directly kill the pigs.

Quote:

However, I think Jesus had to know the pigs would do that. He brought sanity back to one really messed up and dangerous guy...it was worth killing pigs to get his sanity back.

Easy for you to say, since they weren't your pigs.

Then perhaps it is a matter of opinion. I would rank someone's sanity of more importance than pigs.

Quote:

Why did Jesus have to disrupt anyone's life, in order to make a point? If he had power over the demons he could have sent them anywhere.
Like Hypnagogiac suggested, maybe send them over to some fig trees he was angry at?

I don't know if it was possible to send the demons into an inanimate object such as a tree. Jesus knew the pigs would go crazy and run off the cliff and drown. Anyhow, it's a good question to ask. I'm sorry I don't have very good answers.

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruby

I don't know if it was possible to send the demons into an inanimate object such as a tree.

You don't believe that 'God can do anything?'

Jesus knew the pigs would go crazy and run off the cliff and drown.

That brings up another interesting question.. What do you suppose happened to the demons after the pigs died?

Anyhow, it's a good question to ask. I'm sorry I don't have very good answers.

You shouldn't think of your answers as good or bad.. I wouldn't fault you for " the best you can do "..

[c4ts]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dancing David
Hey don't don't smirch Santa/easter Bunny with that blood soaked Sinai dust devil!

Yeah well, one of the 'hallmarks' of schizophrenia is religiosity. Makes me feel that the moansteries of the middle ages were like mental institutions.

Peace
dancing david

Yet strangely enough, they were sane compared to everywhere else...

[Ruby]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes
quote:
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Originally posted by Ruby

I don't know if it was possible to send the demons into an inanimate object such as a tree.

You don't believe that 'God can do anything?'

Well, supposedly He can, but I guess He does not always choose to. This is one of the things I am grappling with. I feel let down in the department of God doing things in my lie.

Quote:

Jesus knew the pigs would go crazy and run off the cliff and drown.

That brings up another interesting question.. What do you suppose happened to the demons after the pigs died?

I don't know what I believe on this issue. Some would say the demons were sent to the "pit"....some would say they went back to the Spiritual realm they were in before they possessed the man. One thing seems sure, they did not return to the man they came out of, and they did not go into any of the townfolk.

Quote:

[bAnyhow, it's a good question to ask. I'm sorry I don't have very good answers.

You shouldn't think of your answers as good or bad.. I wouldn't fault you for " the best you can do "..

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Thanks!

[Darwin]

"Well, this here's my first thread. I dunno if anyone has stumbled across this page before, but its really amazing (at least I think so) : Spirit of Prophecy. Apparently the author has some serious undiagnosed schizophrenia, but it really paints an amazing picture of the kinds of hallucinations some people suffer.

I could never understand what hallucinations were until I started experimenting with acid & mushrooms in high school, and later when I had my first bout of sleep paralysis. But the stuff that this woman saw goes far, far beyond any of that. Ultimately its very sad, because reality has been so terribly obscured for her that I wonder if treatment is even possible at this point. I imagine she could be a tremendous artist (in fact she still could) but the paranoia of her religious visions will probably keep her isolated.

Anyway, for all intents & purposes, I found her descriptions to be utterly fascinating. Especially read her visit to Hell. I imagine that most religious patriarchs/prophets/whatever suffered from similar hallucinations, so I can't really blame them for believing it to be real. Psychology & science have come a long way in the last century, and I wonder if the momentum of religion is going too fast to even slow down."


Welcome!

I have had an overdose of religion related material for this one day but for hallucinations I may have something to give.
We have been developing indeed and a few centuries ago these visions could have been met with much less skepticism.
However,when it comes to diagnoses like schizophrenia reveal that how people hallucinate varies between cultures.
Some people link it to christianity,thinking they are saints or related,for African tribe it may be the case of being assaulted by various demons of nature and so on.What you occupy your mind with seems to be important.
If you look at life trough the scripture and between heaven&hell,no wonder it will be haunting you in this world.

[justsaygnosis]

It's a colorful web page anyway.
Maybe she can teach Jack Chick about art and he can add the hell-fire to it.
They can start a new web-site
Christian-Chick Halluncinations.