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ysabella · 27th January 2006, 04:49 PM

As for the actual shopping experience, I don't find Wal-Mart stores terribly pleasant. The stores near me always look sort of badly lit and grim, and a lot of the products look shoddy to me. I go in maybe once a year for something (they have a certain bodywash I like, and they are an easy local source for free weights and such - there's a sporting goods store right across the street from them, but it SUCKS).
I do find Target more pleasant, oddly enough, although mostly I stick to Fred Meyer (kind of like a grocery store and Target all in one, a Pacific NW chain now owned by Kroger) and buying things online.

Tony · 27th January 2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Grammatron

All the ones who vote to not allow Wal*Mart to open in some city ascribe to that "strawman."

How?

pgwenthold · 27th January 2006, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Santa666

Isn't that pretty much the definition of fast food restaurant? McDonald's and others may not be aiming for high-end sit down places, but they sure do want everything else.

Where the frick do you people eat?

Fast food places attempt to sell food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience" but is nowhere near the same as even a low-end sit down diner (shoot, McDonald's food quality can't even compete with other fast food places - surveys show that; people don't go to McDs for the food in any way, shape or form)

Quote:

I have actually purchased light bulbs from Walmart and I found them in the very conveniently labeled lighting section. It was quite easy in fact. What makes you believe a Walmart would make it difficult to purchase everyday household items?

When I went to my local Ace, I could park immediately by the front door, the store was small enough that it took 10 seconds to get to the lightbulb aisle, I picked up the lightbulb, went to the checkout where I waited behind all of one person, walked out, into the car, and left. Entire time from into the parking lot to out of the parking lot was 3 minutes.

You went to Walmart, drove around the parking lot before settling on a spot 100 yards away, finally got in, walked 50 yards more to get to the lighting section, and then back to the checkout, waited in line behind someone hauling 4 crying kids in a shopping cart using a credit card to pay for a box of Hostess cupcakes and Froot Loops cereal (in the self-service line if you were lucky), paid for your lightbulb, and then trekked the 100 yds back to your car. Time from when you pulled into the parking lot until you left: 10 minutes. And all for a lightbulb.

Maybe you consider that convenient. I don't.

Santa666 · 27th January 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Where the frick do you people eat?

Fast food places attempt to sell food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience" but is nowhere near the same as even a low-end sit down diner (shoot, McDonald's food quality can't even compete with other fast food places - surveys show that; people don't go to McDs for the food in any way, shape or form)

I guess I am going to need a definition of "good enough". What quality of food is that? What exactly is food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience"?

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

When I went to my local Ace, I could park immediately by the front door, the store was small enough that it took 10 seconds to get to the lightbulb aisle, I picked up the lightbulb, went to the checkout where I waited behind all of one person, walked out, into the car, and left. Entire time from into the parking lot to out of the parking lot was 3 minutes.

You went to Walmart, drove around the parking lot before settling on a spot 100 yards away, finally got in, walked 50 yards more to get to the lighting section, and then back to the checkout, waited in line behind someone hauling 4 crying kids in a shopping cart using a credit card to pay for a box of Hostess cupcakes and Froot Loops cereal (in the self-service line if you were lucky), paid for your lightbulb, and then trekked the 100 yds back to your car. Time from when you pulled into the parking lot until you left: 10 minutes. And all for a lightbulb.

Maybe you consider that convenient. I don't.

Hey look, I found a strawman too. Walmart has a large parking lot and I rarely have to drive around and around to find a space close to the door. Besides, it is not as if walking a little is unhealthy. 50 yards to the lighting section!!! OH MY GOD, checking my calculator, that is 150 feet. Well, if I have to walk 150 feet to find the product I am looking for, then I just ain't buying it. Every single time I have EVER been in a Walmart (besides Xmas time), they have had plenty of checkout lines to choose from and not once was I herded into the "woman with 4 screaming kids, blah, blah blah" line. On a side note, I have gone to Walmart for light bulbs, or similar items and found I needed something else as well. Strangely enough, I was able to find what I needed right there at Walmart. I cannot say the same thing about an Ace hardware store. Do they sell bread, or clothes, or DVDs, or toys, or ice cream, or books, etc...? I think you are grossly exaggerating the typical Walmart experience.

Yes, I have visited many Walmarts which are poorly run and in need of good housekeeping and a solid round of firings, but this can apply to any number of chains across the country.

Santa

webfusion · 27th January 2006, 05:15 PM

Certainly if you were only interested in buying a lightbulb, then it would have been even more time-saving to run into Walgreens or CVS pharmacy.

However, WalMart offers a range and variety of things that people know will be always available on the shelves and in-stock. And WalMart makes sure they have it in-stock, and at a great price. Were you aware that every WaMart manager, as part of their job, must go out mystery-shopping several times a month and scan items at competitor's stores! If the competition sells for less, Wal Mart in Arkansas immediately issues a report, and a price-cut is authorized and the product in question receives a tag saying "roll-back" (that smiley guy).

Snowblower? WalMart.
Camera? WalMart.
Toy? WalMart.
Wristwatch? Walmart.
Shotgun? WalMart.

What's the problem?

Tony · 27th January 2006, 05:17 PM

You'll rarely fine me in a Wal-Mart, I mostly go there if I need a video game or dvd at 3 in the morning. I grew up with Wal-marts close by and I've always associated them with white-trash. Visiting a Wal-mart confirms this, it's clear that Wal-Mart caters to the lowest common denominator. The giant parking lot, the cheap and ugly building design, and the cheap products. All characteristics that say "we only care about money and cater to those with the same concerns". Not only that, the places are very cluttered and trashy, the staff utterly clueless, and finding a particular item is hell. And *****, the place is owned by a slack-jawed redneck fundy from Arkansas. Wal-mart embodies everything that is bad and ugly about America.

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Same here. The Chicago City Council wouldn't let a Walmart open in a depressed area on the south side, though the alderman in whose ward it would have been in pushed hard for it. So it opened just across the border in Evergreen Park, and had over 12,000 applicants for 350 jobs. Apparently, people don't mind working there despite the city council's efforts to keep them from the horrors of gainful employment. And now Evergreen Park gets the millions in annual sales tax revenue...

I get the 350 jobs point, but did the opening of a WalMart actually create jobs? One of the reasons WalMart can shift goods at a low price is their high volume/labour ratio. Unless the new WalMart actually created new shopping, that would not otherwise have been shopped, it has presumably drawn custom away from other outlets, some of which will either go out of business - empty shop, no taxes - or "down-size head-count". So there must be a trade-off. Those 12,000 applications - they weren't all from the jobless. Some (I'd bet) were from those who felt insecure in their existing positions.

jj · 27th January 2006, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by ysabella

I do find Target more pleasant, oddly enough, although mostly I stick to Fred Meyer (kind of like a grocery store and Target all in one, a Pacific NW chain now owned by Kroger) and buying things online.

Oddly, we also go to Fred's and Target quite a bit. Of course, up here in Washington, I think Kroger owns everything.

Anti_Hypeman · 27th January 2006, 05:20 PM

I admit that I grocery shop at walmart because its the only place left I can shop without a stupid card. Everywhere else I have to have a "fresh idea" or "super saver" card otherwise I face stiff financial penalties.

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Were you aware that every WaMart manager, as part of their job, must go out mystery-shopping several times a month and scan items at competitor's stores!

And were you aware he has to pay for his own gas and parking when he does so? (A wild guess, but ...)

jj · 27th January 2006, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Snowblower? WalMart.

Home Depot

Quote:

Camera? WalMart.

B&H Photo

Quote:

Toy? WalMart.

Toys'r'Us

Quote:

Wristwatch? Walmart.

Duno, I only buy one every 10 years or so.

Quote:

Shotgun? WalMart.

Again, duno.

Quote:

What's the problem?

Well, I know I don't want the quality of toy, camera, or snowblower that I can get at MallWart.

Iamme · 27th January 2006, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by specious_reasons

Edited to add: I'm a liberal, and I support capitalism. And I don't like WalMart because I find the stores unappealing. While living in a small town, I would go shopping there on occasion because other stores were much farther away, and sometimes, you just need some milk.

"Unappealing". ???? Really? How so?

What kind of things do you buy? You must not like name brand big flat screen tv's for cheap, eh? Or cheap cd's, or cheap Hanes underwear, or a cheap Ron Popeil rotissierre ovens, or cheap toothpaste, or name brand toys, or cheap snow shovels, or cheap flashlights...all name brand items that other stores have...only cheaper.

Are you for real?

Santa666 · 27th January 2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by jj

Home Depot

B&H Photo

Toys'r'Us

Duno, I only buy one every 10 years or so.

Again, duno.

Well, I know I don't want the quality of toy, camera, or snowblower that I can get at MallWart.

See, now here is where I was speaking of Brand names. If you purchase a brand name snowblower, camera, toy, watch, or shotgun at Walmart, are you implying that those items are somehow of lesser quality than products from the identical manufacturer at the stores you listed? If you do, please explain how you know this.

Santa

Santa666 · 27th January 2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

And were you aware he has to pay for his own gas and parking when he does so? (A wild guess, but ...)

How do you know a Walmart manager would not get paid for these trips? And what stores charge for parking?

Santa

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Anti_Hypeman

I admit that I grocery shop at walmart because its the only place left I can shop without a stupid card. Everywhere else I have to have a "fresh idea" or "super saver" card otherwise I face stiff financial penalties.

Pimply-faced youth : "Do you have a ...?". Familiar woman at adjacent till : "He doesn't want a club-card". I smile, in a vaguely sinister manner ...

The thing that pisses me off is that the pimply youths are just there for form, to either be ditched when gumment support runs out or destined for managerial things. While the familiar female has no pretensions, no false expectations, but recognises you and can exchange pleasantries and smiles in those few seconds of interaction.

But hey, waddya gonna do.

webfusion · 27th January 2006, 05:44 PM

The managers just turn in a mileage-chit sheet, and get paid for the distance travelled, and it's on the clock. Don't guess blindly next time -- it makes me wonder what kind of a skeptic you are, OK CapelDodger?

jj, c'mon, you must know that WalMart is the largest seller of almost any major product you can name --- from toys to tires.

Gillette? WalMart.
Sony? WalMart.
Duracell? WalMart.
Krylon? WalMart.
Winchester? WalMart.

Hey, they even sell pinatas! Who else do you know that sells pinatas?

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Santa666

How do you know a Walmart manager would not get paid for these trips? And what stores charge for parking?

Santa

The "wild guess" surely excuses me from providing proof. When it comes to parking, there are shops that don't have parking space. That's often the case in towns, where parking is an entirely separate business. Presumably the WalMart manager is testing down-town outlets? Unless they're regarded as already toast, which is not unreasonable.

Santa666 · 27th January 2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

The "wild guess" surely excuses me from providing proof. When it comes to parking, there are shops that don't have parking space. That's often the case in towns, where parking is an entirely separate business. Presumably the WalMart manager is testing down-town outlets? Unless they're regarded as already toast, which is not unreasonable.

Very true, you did qualify the statement with a "wild guess" disclaimer. You are forgiven.

Santa

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

The managers just turn in a mileage-chit sheet, and get paid for the distance travelled, and it's on the clock. Don't guess blindly next time -- it makes me wonder what kind of a skeptic you are, OK CapelDodger?

The kind that announces wild guesses when he makes them. A cynic of long-standing, with an accountancy background , and on further consideration I see a potential tax-dodge. Private mileage - how close to a WalMart does a manager live? - paid as non-taxed expenses. All on the clock, and all filled-in on the forms. Just a thought.

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Santa666

Very true, you did qualify the statement with a "wild guess" disclaimer. You are forgiven.

Santa

Santa's forgiveness is his own business : I feel no more obliged to forgive Santa than I did all those years ago. Not even that Triang set will do now. Unless it's boxed and untouched ... I'll check this out on e-bay, we've maybe got a negotiating position.

Tony · 27th January 2006, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Hey, they even sell pinatas! Who else do you know that sells pinatas?

If you were in Texas, you wouldn't ask this question.

CapelDodger · 27th January 2006, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

If you were in Texas, you wouldn't ask this question.

Not being in Texas, I will inquire at the nearest American Deli.

webfusion · 27th January 2006, 06:47 PM

"on further consideration I see a potential tax-dodge. Private mileage - how close to a WalMart does a manager live? - paid as non-taxed expenses. All on the clock, and all filled-in on the forms. Just a thought."

???

Two or three managers go over together as a 'spy crew' to the nearby Loews or Home Depot or Target and bring back their results logged into small hand-held scanners with specific competitive brand-name items and prices.The whole trip takes maybe forty minutes and you get an additional $2.27 in one paycheck for the trouble. How does this translate to a tax dodge?

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
http://www.laprensa-sandiego.org/arc...-04/pinata.htm
The Pinata Story

rustypouch · 27th January 2006, 07:48 PM

Well, it's not just the way they treat their employees, but also their suppliers.

They screwed over Rubberaid, for example.

I try to avoid them, but they can be tolerable if you know exactly what you want and how to use it. If you need advice, cameras come as an example as that is close to home, HA!

Amapola · 27th January 2006, 08:54 PM

I don't really think all Walmarts are evil, but I do think the one near me is very evil. (They don't have the lowest prices, either.) What burns me up is: they move everything around all the time so you can't find it. They treat my friends who work there like crap. The customer service is either a joke or non-existant.

I would like to see the building turned into an ice skating rink.

Mr. Amapola and I do not go there anymore and have not for several years. Every time we drive by we joke about how we are bringing them to their corporate knees by not shopping there......

Of course what we do makes no difference to Walmart, but it does make us feel better not to go there.

I can't speak for other Walmarts, just the one I have experience with.

jj · 27th January 2006, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by rustypouch

Well, it's not just the way they treat their employees, but also their suppliers.

They screwed over Rubberaid, for example.

If you need advice, cameras come as an example as that is close to home, HA!

How about Vlasic? I think there's a list there.

jj · 27th January 2006, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Amapola

I would like to see the building turned into an ice skating rink.

Roller skating rink, please, not ice-skating rink!

Amapola · 27th January 2006, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by jj

Roller skating rink, please, not ice-skating rink!

OK!

I'll give you that. And maybe part of it could be a bowling alley. Just not that Walmart!

Orwell · 27th January 2006, 09:10 PM

Yes, you are walmart evil.

peptoabysmal · 27th January 2006, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV

) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.

If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

I never understood it either, until I realized that Wal-Mart is non-union and that's really what all this broo-ha-ha is all about.

Of course, I could be a little biased, the Wal-Marts in my area are all clean and (in the super-store variety) have better quality food than I find at my local Raley's. The products are mostly the same brand names other stores carry and usually at quite a savings.

rustypouch · 27th January 2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by jj

How about Vlasic? I think there's a list there.

Yeah, I forgot about that.

It got to the point where it was either stand up for their rights and face certain bankruptcy because of lawyers' fees and loss of income, or face near bankruptcy because Wal-mart changed the deal....

shuize · 28th January 2006, 05:48 AM

Ah, it must be that time of year again. Another Walmart thread.

I'll summarize what I've said in similar threads of Walmart past:

1) If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there.

2) If you think they treat their employees poorly, don't shop or work there.

3) Have the common courtesy to let others make that choice for themselves.

4) If you do work there and think it sucks, stop bitching about it and get a better job.

5) Note to self: Walmart is obviously doing something right. Buy their stock.

Mandy · 28th January 2006, 06:09 AM

I generally shop there for name brand products that are less expensive at Walmart than at other area stores. Because it's a large store, they also usually have a better selection of items to choose from than the smaller stores have on hand.

Our Walmart is clean, parking isn't a problem, and they generally have enough cashiers so that waiting in line isn't a problem, either.

If some shoppers feel that they are making the world a better place by paying more than they have to for a particular item, that is certainly their choice, of course.

webfusion · 28th January 2006, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Note to self: Walmart is obviously doing something right. Buy their stock.

I had WalMart stock, when it was $68.
It is now $45.

Sure, buy now... some day they may again rise to the value I paid for them a few years ago!

specious_reasons · 28th January 2006, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

"Unappealing". ???? Really? How so?

What kind of things do you buy? You must not like name brand big flat screen tv's for cheap, eh? Or cheap cd's, or cheap Hanes underwear, or a cheap Ron Popeil rotissierre ovens, or cheap toothpaste, or name brand toys, or cheap snow shovels, or cheap flashlights...all name brand items that other stores have...only cheaper.

Are you for real?

Well, honestly, I've only been in ones in small towns in Louisiana. Other people mentioned that the stores are "clean", but that was not my experience. Not dirty, just not always tidy, and the floors were generally dull with dirt and wear. In terms of selection, it was pretty clear we were near the end of the distribution chain. The selection of fresh groceries was miserable and generally of dubious quality. (Of course, that was true of the other grocery store in town - you had to drive an hour for a decent grocery store.)

Plus, I don't like my goods being examined as I'm leaving the store, as is my common experience with WalMart. They have an employee standing by the exit door, who asks to check your basket against your receipt.

My wife shops at Sam's Club, I dislike that place also, for pretty much the same reasons. However, it's useful when buying diapers and other things we actually use in bulk.

Typically, I haven't found WalMart's price differential significant on items that I buy, or I find that the price difference is hard to calculate, because the WalMart/Sam's Club item is different than can be found in other stores.

For instance, I wound up buying a Dyson Vacuum cleaner from Sam's, but that version came with a different set of attachments than any other store. Hard to compare, because I had the option of: a base model form another store for less, the upgrade model from another store for more, but with more extras, or the Sam's club model.

Oh, and thank you ysabella. I have been led to understand that WalMart's health benefits were less available than that, or I obviously wouldn't be arguing how I have. That's what I get for listening to Democracy Now.

specious_reasons · 28th January 2006, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by shuize

Ah, it must be that time of year again. Another Walmart thread.

I'll summarize what I've said in similar threads of Walmart past:

1) If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there.

2) If you think they treat their employees poorly, don't shop or work there.

3) Have the common courtesy to let others make that choice for themselves.

4) If you do work there and think it sucks, stop bitching about it and get a better job.

5) Note to self: Walmart is obviously doing something right. Buy their stock.

1 - Done.
2 - Done, same as the first.
3 - Have the common courtesy to have people make informed choices.
4 - I'll repeat what I said, sometimes the best job you can get still sucks.
5 - Go right ahead.

DavidJames · 28th January 2006, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Grammatron

Ok let's see them in the context of capitalism:

They abide by federal and state laws do they not? IF they do why is this even an issue?

er, what does this have to do "in the context of capitalism"?

Quote:

Uhm so they are against capitalism then. They maintaining artificial market with higher local prices just by keeping Wal*Mart out.

I guess then Manny is against capitalism as he did an excellent job of providing the same arguments I've heard.

Quote:

Oh yeah, they care a lot when they build a Target in the very same place of the exactly same size.

I have no idea what you mean.

Quote:

I don't have to when you do all the work for me.

Don't try and dodge the question. Here is your quote.

Quote:

All the ones who vote to not allow Wal*Mart to open in some city ascribe to that "strawman."

Now this time either prove it, retract it or modify it, but don't try and spin it. Here is a hint. Proving 1, 2 or 20 people believe in something does not mean "all".

WildCat · 28th January 2006, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

I get the 350 jobs point, but did the opening of a WalMart actually create jobs? One of the reasons WalMart can shift goods at a low price is their high volume/labour ratio. Unless the new WalMart actually created new shopping, that would not otherwise have been shopped, it has presumably drawn custom away from other outlets, some of which will either go out of business - empty shop, no taxes - or "down-size head-count". So there must be a trade-off. Those 12,000 applications - they weren't all from the jobless. Some (I'd bet) were from those who felt insecure in their existing positions.

Yes, it did create new jobs and new shopping opportunities. The area they wanted to put it in, near 87th and the Dan Ryan (which already has a new Home Depot and other stores in 2 large strip malls on either side of 87th street), is very retail-poor. It's a depressed area and apparently not many other stores were willing to locate there, and the people who live there have to travel to the suburbs or other parts of the city to go shopping.

And it's no business of the city's to protect their potential competitors (if there were any in that area) from competition, I don't know where this idea comes from.

Bob Klase · 28th January 2006, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

- surveys show that; people don't go to McDs for the food in any way, shape or form)

So they go there for the free parking?

Could you post a link to some of those studies? I've never heard of them. Personally I know many people that actually like a Big Mac occasionally. They go to McDs because that's where you buy a Big Mac and it's considered food. Perhaps people that go there for the food are just a tiny percentage of the customer base. But with all the similar alternatives available (Wendy's, Hardee's, Arby's) I'm not sure what other reasons would apply to McD's that wouldn't also apply to those places.

Bob Klase · 28th January 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by jj

Well, I know I don't want the quality of toy, camera, or snowblower that I can get at MallWart.

I have a Walmart near me, a Walmart Supercenter less than 10 miles away, 4 Home Depots within 12 miles, and 2 Toys'r'Us within 15 miles. If you don't want the quality of toy camera or snowblower that you get at Walmart, why would you go to any of those places- it's very often the same exact item.

27th January 2006, 04:49 PM	#41
ysabella Muse Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 705	As for the actual shopping experience, I don't find Wal-Mart stores terribly pleasant. The stores near me always look sort of badly lit and grim, and a lot of the products look shoddy to me. I go in maybe once a year for something (they have a certain bodywash I like, and they are an easy local source for free weights and such - there's a sporting goods store right across the street from them, but it SUCKS). I do find Target more pleasant, oddly enough, although mostly I stick to Fred Meyer (kind of like a grocery store and Target all in one, a Pacific NW chain now owned by Kroger) and buying things online.
	__________________ "The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism." - Sir William Osler

27th January 2006, 04:49 PM	#42
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,814	Originally Posted by Grammatron All the ones who vote to not allow Wal*Mart to open in some city ascribe to that "strawman." How?
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

27th January 2006, 04:53 PM	#43
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,119	Originally Posted by Santa666 Isn't that pretty much the definition of fast food restaurant? McDonald's and others may not be aiming for high-end sit down places, but they sure do want everything else. Where the frick do you people eat? Fast food places attempt to sell food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience" but is nowhere near the same as even a low-end sit down diner (shoot, McDonald's food quality can't even compete with other fast food places - surveys show that; people don't go to McDs for the food in any way, shape or form) Quote: I have actually purchased light bulbs from Walmart and I found them in the very conveniently labeled lighting section. It was quite easy in fact. What makes you believe a Walmart would make it difficult to purchase everyday household items? When I went to my local Ace, I could park immediately by the front door, the store was small enough that it took 10 seconds to get to the lightbulb aisle, I picked up the lightbulb, went to the checkout where I waited behind all of one person, walked out, into the car, and left. Entire time from into the parking lot to out of the parking lot was 3 minutes. You went to Walmart, drove around the parking lot before settling on a spot 100 yards away, finally got in, walked 50 yards more to get to the lighting section, and then back to the checkout, waited in line behind someone hauling 4 crying kids in a shopping cart using a credit card to pay for a box of Hostess cupcakes and Froot Loops cereal (in the self-service line if you were lucky), paid for your lightbulb, and then trekked the 100 yds back to your car. Time from when you pulled into the parking lot until you left: 10 minutes. And all for a lightbulb. Maybe you consider that convenient. I don't.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

27th January 2006, 05:10 PM	#44
Santa666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Pole/Hell Posts: 355	Originally Posted by pgwenthold Where the frick do you people eat? Fast food places attempt to sell food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience" but is nowhere near the same as even a low-end sit down diner (shoot, McDonald's food quality can't even compete with other fast food places - surveys show that; people don't go to McDs for the food in any way, shape or form) I guess I am going to need a definition of "good enough". What quality of food is that? What exactly is food that is "good enough, given the cost and convenience"? Originally Posted by pgwenthold When I went to my local Ace, I could park immediately by the front door, the store was small enough that it took 10 seconds to get to the lightbulb aisle, I picked up the lightbulb, went to the checkout where I waited behind all of one person, walked out, into the car, and left. Entire time from into the parking lot to out of the parking lot was 3 minutes. You went to Walmart, drove around the parking lot before settling on a spot 100 yards away, finally got in, walked 50 yards more to get to the lighting section, and then back to the checkout, waited in line behind someone hauling 4 crying kids in a shopping cart using a credit card to pay for a box of Hostess cupcakes and Froot Loops cereal (in the self-service line if you were lucky), paid for your lightbulb, and then trekked the 100 yds back to your car. Time from when you pulled into the parking lot until you left: 10 minutes. And all for a lightbulb. Maybe you consider that convenient. I don't. Hey look, I found a strawman too. Walmart has a large parking lot and I rarely have to drive around and around to find a space close to the door. Besides, it is not as if walking a little is unhealthy. 50 yards to the lighting section!!! OH MY GOD, checking my calculator, that is 150 feet. Well, if I have to walk 150 feet to find the product I am looking for, then I just ain't buying it. Every single time I have EVER been in a Walmart (besides Xmas time), they have had plenty of checkout lines to choose from and not once was I herded into the "woman with 4 screaming kids, blah, blah blah" line. On a side note, I have gone to Walmart for light bulbs, or similar items and found I needed something else as well. Strangely enough, I was able to find what I needed right there at Walmart. I cannot say the same thing about an Ace hardware store. Do they sell bread, or clothes, or DVDs, or toys, or ice cream, or books, etc...? I think you are grossly exaggerating the typical Walmart experience. Yes, I have visited many Walmarts which are poorly run and in need of good housekeeping and a solid round of firings, but this can apply to any number of chains across the country. Santa
	__________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound

27th January 2006, 05:15 PM	#45
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	If the lightbulb is burned out Certainly if you were only interested in buying a lightbulb, then it would have been even more time-saving to run into Walgreens or CVS pharmacy. However, WalMart offers a range and variety of things that people know will be always available on the shelves and in-stock. And WalMart makes sure they have it in-stock, and at a great price. Were you aware that every WaMart manager, as part of their job, must go out mystery-shopping several times a month and scan items at competitor's stores! If the competition sells for less, Wal Mart in Arkansas immediately issues a report, and a price-cut is authorized and the product in question receives a tag saying "roll-back" (that smiley guy). Snowblower? WalMart. Camera? WalMart. Toy? WalMart. Wristwatch? Walmart. Shotgun? WalMart. What's the problem?

27th January 2006, 05:17 PM	#46
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,814	You'll rarely fine me in a Wal-Mart, I mostly go there if I need a video game or dvd at 3 in the morning. I grew up with Wal-marts close by and I've always associated them with white-trash. Visiting a Wal-mart confirms this, it's clear that Wal-Mart caters to the lowest common denominator. The giant parking lot, the cheap and ugly building design, and the cheap products. All characteristics that say "we only care about money and cater to those with the same concerns". Not only that, the places are very cluttered and trashy, the staff utterly clueless, and finding a particular item is hell. And *****, the place is owned by a slack-jawed redneck fundy from Arkansas. Wal-mart embodies everything that is bad and ugly about America.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

27th January 2006, 05:20 PM	#47
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by WildCat Same here. The Chicago City Council wouldn't let a Walmart open in a depressed area on the south side, though the alderman in whose ward it would have been in pushed hard for it. So it opened just across the border in Evergreen Park, and had over 12,000 applicants for 350 jobs. Apparently, people don't mind working there despite the city council's efforts to keep them from the horrors of gainful employment. And now Evergreen Park gets the millions in annual sales tax revenue... I get the 350 jobs point, but did the opening of a WalMart actually create jobs? One of the reasons WalMart can shift goods at a low price is their high volume/labour ratio. Unless the new WalMart actually created new shopping, that would not otherwise have been shopped, it has presumably drawn custom away from other outlets, some of which will either go out of business - empty shop, no taxes - or "down-size head-count". So there must be a trade-off. Those 12,000 applications - they weren't all from the jobless. Some (I'd bet) were from those who felt insecure in their existing positions.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 05:20 PM	#48
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,719	Originally Posted by ysabella I do find Target more pleasant, oddly enough, although mostly I stick to Fred Meyer (kind of like a grocery store and Target all in one, a Pacific NW chain now owned by Kroger) and buying things online. Oddly, we also go to Fred's and Target quite a bit. Of course, up here in Washington, I think Kroger owns everything.
	__________________ The Power to Quit

27th January 2006, 05:20 PM	#49
Anti_Hypeman Death Dealing Doom Machine Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,011	I admit that I grocery shop at walmart because its the only place left I can shop without a stupid card. Everywhere else I have to have a "fresh idea" or "super saver" card otherwise I face stiff financial penalties.

27th January 2006, 05:22 PM	#50
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by webfusion Were you aware that every WaMart manager, as part of their job, must go out mystery-shopping several times a month and scan items at competitor's stores! And were you aware he has to pay for his own gas and parking when he does so? (A wild guess, but ...)
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 05:23 PM	#51
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,719	Originally Posted by webfusion Snowblower? WalMart. Home Depot Quote: Camera? WalMart. B&H Photo Quote: Toy? WalMart. Toys'r'Us Quote: Wristwatch? Walmart. Duno, I only buy one every 10 years or so. Quote: Shotgun? WalMart. Again, duno. Quote: What's the problem? Well, I know I don't want the quality of toy, camera, or snowblower that I can get at MallWart.
	__________________ The Power to Quit

27th January 2006, 05:25 PM	#52
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Originally Posted by specious_reasons Edited to add: I'm a liberal, and I support capitalism. And I don't like WalMart because I find the stores unappealing. While living in a small town, I would go shopping there on occasion because other stores were much farther away, and sometimes, you just need some milk. "Unappealing". ???? Really? How so? What kind of things do you buy? You must not like name brand big flat screen tv's for cheap, eh? Or cheap cd's, or cheap Hanes underwear, or a cheap Ron Popeil rotissierre ovens, or cheap toothpaste, or name brand toys, or cheap snow shovels, or cheap flashlights...all name brand items that other stores have...only cheaper. Are you for real?
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit.

27th January 2006, 05:28 PM	#53
Santa666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Pole/Hell Posts: 355	Originally Posted by jj Home Depot B&H Photo Toys'r'Us Duno, I only buy one every 10 years or so. Again, duno. Well, I know I don't want the quality of toy, camera, or snowblower that I can get at MallWart. See, now here is where I was speaking of Brand names. If you purchase a brand name snowblower, camera, toy, watch, or shotgun at Walmart, are you implying that those items are somehow of lesser quality than products from the identical manufacturer at the stores you listed? If you do, please explain how you know this. Santa
	__________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound

27th January 2006, 05:29 PM	#54
Santa666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Pole/Hell Posts: 355	Originally Posted by CapelDodger And were you aware he has to pay for his own gas and parking when he does so? (A wild guess, but ...) How do you know a Walmart manager would not get paid for these trips? And what stores charge for parking? Santa
	__________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound

27th January 2006, 05:38 PM	#55
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by Anti_Hypeman I admit that I grocery shop at walmart because its the only place left I can shop without a stupid card. Everywhere else I have to have a "fresh idea" or "super saver" card otherwise I face stiff financial penalties. Pimply-faced youth : "Do you have a ...?". Familiar woman at adjacent till : "He doesn't want a club-card". I smile, in a vaguely sinister manner ... The thing that pisses me off is that the pimply youths are just there for form, to either be ditched when gumment support runs out or destined for managerial things. While the familiar female has no pretensions, no false expectations, but recognises you and can exchange pleasantries and smiles in those few seconds of interaction. But hey, waddya gonna do.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 05:44 PM	#56
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Mileage-chits The managers just turn in a mileage-chit sheet, and get paid for the distance travelled, and it's on the clock. Don't guess blindly next time -- it makes me wonder what kind of a skeptic you are, OK CapelDodger? jj, c'mon, you must know that WalMart is the largest seller of almost any major product you can name --- from toys to tires. Gillette? WalMart. Sony? WalMart. Duracell? WalMart. Krylon? WalMart. Winchester? WalMart. Hey, they even sell pinatas! Who else do you know that sells pinatas?
	__________________ "You support Israel. Enough said." -- mxwarrior, a rabid anti-Israel JREF poster (now banned) offered this in trying to dismiss all comments offered in rebuttal to him by those JREF'ers who use logic, facts, valid sources, and reality.

27th January 2006, 05:48 PM	#57
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by Santa666 How do you know a Walmart manager would not get paid for these trips? And what stores charge for parking? Santa The "wild guess" surely excuses me from providing proof. When it comes to parking, there are shops that don't have parking space. That's often the case in towns, where parking is an entirely separate business. Presumably the WalMart manager is testing down-town outlets? Unless they're regarded as already toast, which is not unreasonable.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 05:50 PM	#58
Santa666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Pole/Hell Posts: 355	Originally Posted by CapelDodger The "wild guess" surely excuses me from providing proof. When it comes to parking, there are shops that don't have parking space. That's often the case in towns, where parking is an entirely separate business. Presumably the WalMart manager is testing down-town outlets? Unless they're regarded as already toast, which is not unreasonable. Very true, you did qualify the statement with a "wild guess" disclaimer. You are forgiven. Santa
	__________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound

27th January 2006, 06:05 PM	#59
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by webfusion The managers just turn in a mileage-chit sheet, and get paid for the distance travelled, and it's on the clock. Don't guess blindly next time -- it makes me wonder what kind of a skeptic you are, OK CapelDodger? The kind that announces wild guesses when he makes them. A cynic of long-standing, with an accountancy background , and on further consideration I see a potential tax-dodge. Private mileage - how close to a WalMart does a manager live? - paid as non-taxed expenses. All on the clock, and all filled-in on the forms. Just a thought.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 06:19 PM	#60
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by Santa666 Very true, you did qualify the statement with a "wild guess" disclaimer. You are forgiven. Santa Santa's forgiveness is his own business : I feel no more obliged to forgive Santa than I did all those years ago. Not even that Triang set will do now. Unless it's boxed and untouched ... I'll check this out on e-bay, we've maybe got a negotiating position.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 06:20 PM	#61
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,814	Originally Posted by webfusion Hey, they even sell pinatas! Who else do you know that sells pinatas? If you were in Texas, you wouldn't ask this question.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

27th January 2006, 06:27 PM	#62
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by Tony If you were in Texas, you wouldn't ask this question. Not being in Texas, I will inquire at the nearest American Deli.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

27th January 2006, 06:47 PM	#63
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	What does this all mean? "on further consideration I see a potential tax-dodge. Private mileage - how close to a WalMart does a manager live? - paid as non-taxed expenses. All on the clock, and all filled-in on the forms. Just a thought." ??? Two or three managers go over together as a 'spy crew' to the nearby Loews or Home Depot or Target and bring back their results logged into small hand-held scanners with specific competitive brand-name items and prices.The whole trip takes maybe forty minutes and you get an additional $2.27 in one paycheck for the trouble. How does this translate to a tax dodge? \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ http://www.laprensa-sandiego.org/arc...-04/pinata.htm The Pinata Story

27th January 2006, 07:48 PM	#64
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Belfort Posts: 5,182	Well, it's not just the way they treat their employees, but also their suppliers. They screwed over Rubberaid, for example. I try to avoid them, but they can be tolerable if you know exactly what you want and how to use it. If you need advice, cameras come as an example as that is close to home, HA!

27th January 2006, 08:54 PM	#65
Amapola Pirate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mora, New Mexico Posts: 8,260	I don't really think all Walmarts are evil, but I do think the one near me is very evil. (They don't have the lowest prices, either.) What burns me up is: they move everything around all the time so you can't find it. They treat my friends who work there like crap. The customer service is either a joke or non-existant. I would like to see the building turned into an ice skating rink. Mr. Amapola and I do not go there anymore and have not for several years. Every time we drive by we joke about how we are bringing them to their corporate knees by not shopping there...... Of course what we do makes no difference to Walmart, but it does make us feel better not to go there. I can't speak for other Walmarts, just the one I have experience with.

27th January 2006, 09:04 PM	#66
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,719	Originally Posted by rustypouch Well, it's not just the way they treat their employees, but also their suppliers. They screwed over Rubberaid, for example. If you need advice, cameras come as an example as that is close to home, HA! How about Vlasic? I think there's a list there.
	__________________ The Power to Quit

27th January 2006, 09:06 PM	#67
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,719	Originally Posted by Amapola I would like to see the building turned into an ice skating rink. Roller skating rink, please, not ice-skating rink!
	__________________ The Power to Quit

27th January 2006, 09:10 PM	#68
Amapola Pirate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mora, New Mexico Posts: 8,260	Originally Posted by jj Roller skating rink, please, not ice-skating rink! OK! I'll give you that. And maybe part of it could be a bowling alley. Just not that Walmart!

27th January 2006, 09:10 PM	#69
Orwell Nattering Nabob of Negativism Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,364	Yes, you are walmart evil.
	__________________ Charles de Gaulle fut arrêté par des journalistes devant un graffiti disant "mort aux cons". Il commenta: "Vaste programme..."

27th January 2006, 09:24 PM	#70
peptoabysmal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,468	Originally Posted by DavidJames I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep. If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there. I never understood it either, until I realized that Wal-Mart is non-union and that's really what all this broo-ha-ha is all about. Of course, I could be a little biased, the Wal-Marts in my area are all clean and (in the super-store variety) have better quality food than I find at my local Raley's. The products are mostly the same brand names other stores carry and usually at quite a savings.
	__________________ OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

27th January 2006, 10:37 PM	#71
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Belfort Posts: 5,182	Originally Posted by jj How about Vlasic? I think there's a list there. Yeah, I forgot about that. It got to the point where it was either stand up for their rights and face certain bankruptcy because of lawyers' fees and loss of income, or face near bankruptcy because Wal-mart changed the deal....

28th January 2006, 05:48 AM	#72
shuize Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 2,322	Ah, it must be that time of year again. Another Walmart thread. I'll summarize what I've said in similar threads of Walmart past: 1) If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there. 2) If you think they treat their employees poorly, don't shop or work there. 3) Have the common courtesy to let others make that choice for themselves. 4) If you do work there and think it sucks, stop bitching about it and get a better job. 5) Note to self: Walmart is obviously doing something right. Buy their stock.

28th January 2006, 06:09 AM	#73
Mandy Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 35	I generally shop there for name brand products that are less expensive at Walmart than at other area stores. Because it's a large store, they also usually have a better selection of items to choose from than the smaller stores have on hand. Our Walmart is clean, parking isn't a problem, and they generally have enough cashiers so that waiting in line isn't a problem, either. If some shoppers feel that they are making the world a better place by paying more than they have to for a particular item, that is certainly their choice, of course.
Mandy Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 35

28th January 2006, 06:16 AM	#74
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Quote: Note to self: Walmart is obviously doing something right. Buy their stock. I had WalMart stock, when it was $68. It is now $45. Sure, buy now... some day they may again rise to the value I paid for them a few years ago!

28th January 2006, 06:50 AM	#75
specious_reasons Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,124	Originally Posted by Iamme "Unappealing". ???? Really? How so? What kind of things do you buy? You must not like name brand big flat screen tv's for cheap, eh? Or cheap cd's, or cheap Hanes underwear, or a cheap Ron Popeil rotissierre ovens, or cheap toothpaste, or name brand toys, or cheap snow shovels, or cheap flashlights...all name brand items that other stores have...only cheaper. Are you for real? Well, honestly, I've only been in ones in small towns in Louisiana. Other people mentioned that the stores are "clean", but that was not my experience. Not dirty, just not always tidy, and the floors were generally dull with dirt and wear. In terms of selection, it was pretty clear we were near the end of the distribution chain. The selection of fresh groceries was miserable and generally of dubious quality. (Of course, that was true of the other grocery store in town - you had to drive an hour for a decent grocery store.) Plus, I don't like my goods being examined as I'm leaving the store, as is my common experience with WalMart. They have an employee standing by the exit door, who asks to check your basket against your receipt. My wife shops at Sam's Club, I dislike that place also, for pretty much the same reasons. However, it's useful when buying diapers and other things we actually use in bulk. Typically, I haven't found WalMart's price differential significant on items that I buy, or I find that the price difference is hard to calculate, because the WalMart/Sam's Club item is different than can be found in other stores. For instance, I wound up buying a Dyson Vacuum cleaner from Sam's, but that version came with a different set of attachments than any other store. Hard to compare, because I had the option of: a base model form another store for less, the upgrade model from another store for more, but with more extras, or the Sam's club model. Oh, and thank you ysabella. I have been led to understand that WalMart's health benefits were less available than that, or I obviously wouldn't be arguing how I have. That's what I get for listening to Democracy Now.
	__________________ ta- DAVE!!!