Scandinavians not welcome in Gaza

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

Ye Gads! I have heard of Lutefisk but was never quite sure what it was, so your post made me think to google it.

Lemme put it this way. Is there anything ELSE Norwegian I can buy?

Ooooh lots

[Lukretius]

Originally Posted by The Don

Ooooh lots [/url]

Here's some examples of Danish exporters:

- Arla Foods
- Bang & Olufsen
- Cabinplant (Capital equipment for fishing industries)
- Carlsberg (Liquid for thirsty souls)
- COWI
- Danfoss
- Danisco (foods)
- Danish Crown (foods)
- Danske Bank
- Grundfos
- HEMPEL
- J. Lauritzen
- LEGO
- Le Klint
- A.P. Moller - Maersk
- Nodea (arts)
- Novo Nordisk (medicin)
- Oticon
- VELUX
- Vestas

I especially like the last one. Vestas is one of the worlds leading windmill producers, so if anybody should happen to be in need of a 300 feet high windmill, Vestas is the firm to call

And of course - if you're a sucker for designer furnitures from the 50's and 60's we have loads of overpriced goods for sale

[The Don]

For our Northern Irish members, you can support Danske Bank by bankind at the Northern Irish Bank or the Northern Bank.

Beerwise, you could do worse than drinking Albani. On no account should you touch Gamel Dansk

[Lukretius]

Originally Posted by The Don

For our Northern Irish members, you can support Danske Bank by bankind at the Northern Irish Bank or the Northern Bank.

Beerwise, you could do worse than drinking Albani. On no account should you touch Gamel Dansk

In general Danish beer is ok, but quite boring. And the advise against Gammel Dansk is wise - I'll never forget the hellish hangover following a night with only Gammel Dansk on the menu, not to mention that it tastes like skunk piss.

(Gammel Dansk is a bitter, and the name translate into "Old Danish" - but they don't tell you that it's THAT old)

[zenith-nadir]

It is absolutely crazy what a few cartoons will motivate people to do....(from Yahoo News)

Quote:

Palestinian Hamas supporters attend a rally against the publication of cartoons in European newspapers depicting the Prophet Mohammad, in front of the Palestinian parliament in Gaza City, Friday, Feb, 3, 2006. AP Photo/Adel Hana



A Palestinian holds the Koran during a Hamas rally to protest against the publication of cartoons in European newspapers depicting the Prophet Mohammad, inside Palestinian parliament in Gaza City February 3, 2006. REUTERS/Ahmed Jadallah



Supporters of the Islamic group Hamas burn a French flag during a demonstration in the West Bank town of Ramallah Friday Feb. 3, 2006. (AP Photo/Muhammed Muheisen)



Supporters of the Islamic group Hamas burn a Danish flag during a demonstration in the West Bank town of Nablus Friday Feb. 3, 2006.



Palestinians burn European Union products during a Hamas demonstration in the West Bank city of Jenin February 3, 2006. REUTERS/Mohamed Torkoman



Palestinian Hamas supporters burn a Danish flag during a Hamas rally in Gaza February 3, 2006. (Mohammed Salem/Reuters)

Meanwhile in Lebanon....

Quote:

Palestinian children shout slogans during a demonstration against cartoons depicting Prophet Mohammad published in several European newspapers, after Friday prayers in Bourj al-Barajneh refugee camp in Beirut, Lebanon February 3, 2006. REUTERS/Jamal Saidi



A Palestinian woman from the Hamas group holds the Muslim holy book Koran and a banner calling for a boycott of European products during a demonstration after Friday prayers in Bourj al-Barajneh refugee camp in Beirut February 3, 2006.

Note to Scandinavians...your cartoonists have a very militant fanbase.

[Orwell]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Would he, now? Apart from my regrettable failure to attribute, why would he be offended? I'll have to check the copyright date, but that passage sure sounds to me like an intentional satire of the Palestinians.

There's a bit of the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax in a lot of folks, BP... And I'm pretty sure that that was what Adam's intended to satirise.

[BPSCG]

Have I missed something here? Why is it only the Palis who have their britches in such a twist about this? Why aren't they burning Danish flags in Damascus and Cairo and Riyadh and Peshawar and Teheran and...?

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by Orwell

There's a bit of the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax in a lot of folks, BP...

Truer words were never spoken; there is a bit of the Silastic Armorfiends in a lot of folks.

But there's a lot of it in the Palis.

Try this experiment: Read the Silastic paragraph again, substituting "Palestinians" for "Silastic Armorfiends" throughout. Description still rings pretty true, doesn't it?

Now substitute "Canadians."

Doesn't work nearly as well, does it?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Have I missed something here? Why is it only the Palis who have their britches in such a twist about this? Why aren't they burning Danish flags in Damascus and Cairo and Riyadh and Peshawar and Teheran and...?

Oh they will be...

You just don't get it BPSCG that cartoons are taken very very seriously by some people... and...er....ahhhh....you'd better wake up.....and...er...ahhmmm... and you also must accept that WW3, "the cartoon war", is upon us!

Quote:

Muslims Again Protest Muhammad Caricatures Feb 03, 2006

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Tens of thousands of angry Muslims marched through Palestinian cities, burning the Danish flag and calling for vengeance Friday against European countries where caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad were published.

In Iraq, thousands demonstrated after Friday mosque services, and the country's leading Shiite cleric denounced the drawings. About 4,500 people rallied in Basra and hundreds at a Baghdad mosque. Danish flags were burned at both demonstrations.

Muslims in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia demonstrated against the European nations whose papers published them.

(edited to add)

Tell me everyone, these kind of protests are obviously staged and planned. I bet a weeks pay that most of the people burning these flags and calling for vengence never have read the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten or the Norwegian Christian newspaper Magazinet. So let's see the forest from the trees for a sec. Who is organizing these many over-the-top protests and what is their ultimate goal?

[Kopji]

Quote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

In Indonesia, 150 demonstrators hurled eggs at the building housing the Danish Embassy, then stormed in, pushing past security guards.

Shouting “God is Great,” they tried to enter elevators to reach the mission on the building’s 25th floor, but had to settle for tearing down a Danish flag and burning it on the pavement outside the building.

“We are not terrorists, we are not anarchists, but we are against those people who blaspheme Islam,” a protester wearing white Arabic-style robes shouted outside the building.

...

[Manny]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Have I missed something here? Why is it only the Palis who have their britches in such a twist about this? Why aren't they burning Danish flags in Damascus and Cairo and Riyadh and Peshawar and Teheran and...?

That's just where the photographers are. Protests in Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. And other places I'm too lazy to link.

[Darat]

I hope no one sees what someone has done with this Islamic prophet!

[plindboe]

As a dane I couldn't care less about their flag burning fun. I just scratch my neck and think to myself; "what a bunch of fanatics".

[Orwell]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Have I missed something here? Why is it only the Palis who have their britches in such a twist about this? Why aren't they burning Danish flags in Damascus and Cairo and Riyadh and Peshawar and Teheran and...?

There have been protests all around the world.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...701518,00.html

Reading the threads on this, it seems that it isn't only the offended Muslims (most of them seem to be of the fundamentalist persuasion) that need to calm down. Too much self-righteousness going around...

I liked this editorial on the subject:

Cartoons and their context

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by The Don

Ooooh lots

I wanna buy that helicopter on the web page.


I hope they'll take a check post-dated April 4, 2087, though.

[Elind]

Originally Posted by epepke

Gjetost cheese. A thin slice of it is equivalent in flavor to a cup of sweet milk paste, only without the sweetness. Delicious. Use it in moderation.

You can do better than that. Don't they have Sur Ströming in Norway? Mes Ost, Mes Smör?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally Posted by Orwell

I liked this editorial on the subject:

Cartoons and their context

Except that Guardian...cough...cough...editorial spins the responsibility for the over-the-top protests, boycotts, violence and flag burning on:

Quote:

"The cartoons, which are of very mixed quality (and which many newspapers would reject on those grounds alone), offend and provoke."

The cartoons.

Quote:

"That is why the defiant republication of the cartoons in some parts of Europe (some of them with far less good histories of intercommunal relations than this country) is more questionable than it may appear at first sight."

The republication of the cartoons.

Quote:

"So too is the political situation in Denmark itself, where the cartoons were first published, and where a large and strongly anti-immigrant party provides part of the parliamentary coalition supporting Denmark's centre-right government."

...and the political situation in Denmark.

Funny but that Guardian editorial forgot to address that the responsibility for the over-the-top protests, violence, boycotts, and flag burnings belongs to the protestors and not to A) the cartoon, B) the republication of the cartoons or C) the political situation in Denmark.

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by manny

That's just where the photographers are. Protests in Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. And other places I'm too lazy to link.

Excellent.

Let's hear again how Islam is really a religion of peace that's been highjacked by a few radicals.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Excellent.

Let's hear again how Islam is really a religion of peace that's been highjacked by a few radicals.

You watch...if these Muslim lunatics do manage to eliminate foreign investment in their countries, they will then start screaming that the lack of foreign investment is a Zionist plot against Islam, and will start killing people over the idea.

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by Orwell

I liked this editorial on the subject:

Cartoons and their context

The money quote from that editorial:

Quote:

It is one thing to assert the right to publish an image of the prophet. As long as that is not illegal - and not even the government's amended religious hatred bill makes it so - then that right undoubtedly exists. But it is another thing to put that right to the test, especially when to do so inevitably causes offence to many Muslims...

Translation: You have rights. Just don't try to use them. Government Censorship = Bad. Self-Censorship = Good.

Funny how the Guardian is concerned that we not cause offense to Mulsims. Do Muslims care about whether or not they cause offense to the kafirs?

[Elind]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Have I missed something here? Why is it only the Palis who have their britches in such a twist about this? Why aren't they burning Danish flags in Damascus and Cairo and Riyadh and Peshawar and Teheran and...?

They have jobs not paid for by foreigners in those places.

[JPK71]

As I am also from Denmark I would like to make a comment also. Quite frankly - most danes don´t give a s..t, and neither do I. If they want to burn flags, well go ahead. But an excuse for something that in no way conflicts with danish laws is out of the question. Muslims need to get it into their heads, that Denmark is not a muslem country - and never will be. We have a constitution that puts freedom of speech at top level.
I have an urge to say something very nasty about the muslims - but I can´t really be bothered anymore with this annoying fit of hysteria the muslems are suffering from.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally Posted by plindboe

As a dane I couldn't care less about their flag burning fun. I just scratch my neck and think to myself; "what a bunch of fanatics".

Quote:

Palestinians stand on Danish and French flags to protest against caricatures of Prophet Mohammad published in several European newspapers in the port city of Sidon in south Lebanon February 3, 2006. REUTERS/Ali Hashisho

Who you callin' a fanatic? ....


p.s. Why do Palestinians - with green HAMAS bandana's - just happen to carry submachine guns in Sidon Lebanon?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Funny how the Guardian is concerned that we not cause offense to Mulsims. Do Muslims care about whether or not they cause offense to the kafirs?

Exactly. I am offended that these fanatics are demanding that people who live in a country thousands of miles away, who generally do not even subscribe to their religion., be forced to abide by these people's religious rules under threat of death. That offends me very much.

The difference is, I am not going to give voice to that offence by finding the nearest muslim and threatening to kill him if the Muslims do not stop doing these things. Nor am I threatening to blow up consulates of Islamic countries.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

Exactly. I am offended that these fanatics are demanding that people who live in a country thousands of miles away, who generally do not even subscribe to their religion., be forced to abide by these people's religious rules under threat of death. That offends me very much.

The difference is, I am not going to give voice to that offence by finding the nearest muslim and threatening to kill him if the Muslims do not stop doing these things. Nor am I threatening to blow up consulates of Islamic countries.

You are forgetting that in their minds God demands that they do these things. Fairness and logic have nothing to do with any of it.
They differ from the Religious Right in this country only by degree.

[zenith-nadir]

But don't feel left out Europe, there's enough "love" for everyone...

Quote:

Syrians walk over the Israeli flag on the pavement leading up to a mosque in Damascus February 3, 2006, where Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal delivered a speech on Friday. He demanded an apology for the cartoons published in some European papers that have sparked an escalating diplomatic standoff between Muslims and the offending European countries. REUTERS/ Khaled al-Hariri

(emphasis mine)

"leading up to a mosque"...how quaint....wait a sec...is that the same Hamas leader who now runs the Palestinian Authori....nevermind.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Orwell

There have been protests all around the world.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...701518,00.html

Reading the threads on this, it seems that it isn't only the offended Muslims (most of them seem to be of the fundamentalist persuasion) that need to calm down. Too much self-righteousness going around...

I liked this editorial on the subject:

Cartoons and their context

How disapointing of the Guardian. There was a time when a liberal leaning paper would have gone to the mat for freedom of speech.

[Orwell]

Quote:

But that is not the end of the matter. There are limits and boundaries - of taste, law, convention, principle or judgment. All these constraints matter and cannot be automatically overriden by invoking the larger principle. In any case, the right to publish does not imply any obligation to do so. Adults are entitled to make up their own minds about what they individually want to view or read, which is why we are publishing details of the internet links to the cartoons in the newspaper and on our website. But newspapers are not obliged to republish offensive material merely because it is controversial. It would not be appropriate, for instance, to publish an anti-semitic cartoon of the sort that was commonplace in Nazi Germany. Nor would we publish one which depicted black people in the way a Victorian caricature might have done. Every newspaper in the country regularly carries stories about child pornography, yet none has yet reproduced examples of such pornography as part of their coverage. Few people would argue that it is essential to an understanding of the issues that they should do so.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/st...700999,00.html

[zenith-nadir]

Originally Posted by Orwell

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/st...700999,00.html

I don't get your defense of the Guardian. Why? Because reproducing examples of child pornography is against the law. Therefore that analogy is useless, it simply grasping at straws. No credible news organization on earth would reproduce "examples of child pornography" in articles about child pornography. Meanwhile reproducing examples of Allah cartoons is not against any law.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by Orwell

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/st...700999,00.html

All well and good. Sometimes you have to stand up to a bully, though. RIght now, right now these muslims are attempting to be bullies. If the est of the world caves, they will just make more demands. Reprinting these cartoons shows that these other countries aren't going to cave.

If I had the money, I'd reprint the darn things on a billboard over Times Square or some other REALLY prominent location.

[Orwell]

Would you be offended if I posted anti-Semitic cartoons? Yes, and rightly so. You would probably accuse me of being an anti-Semite. There's a chance I would even get expelled from this forum. Is posting anti-Semitic cartoons against the law? No.

It is not necessary to repeatedly publish the offending cartoons to talk about the offending cartoons. They've become widely available, and anyone who wants to see them can see them.

In this case, the line between defending freedom of expression and bash-the-Muslim is a mighty fine one. There's a good chance that these cartoons were initially published by people whose specific intent was to offend Muslims and cause this kind of controversy: Muslim baiting, so to to speak. And these cartoons are mostly being reprinted by European right-wing papers who would probably never dare publish a cartoon making fun of christianism, which makes their alleged defence of freedom of speech a bit suspect... Intolerance from one side doesn't excuse insensitivity from the other.

To me, this whole affair sounds more like recuperating the events to push a certain political agenda, the agenda being either the fundamentalist's hatred of the west, or the Muslim bashing of certain elements of the European (and US) right wing. I don't feel like playing these kinds of games, you know? I've seen the cartoons, they don't offend me, but then again, I'm not Muslim. I don't approve of religious stupidity and intolerance (hell, I have quite a lot of contempt for religion in general), but I don't approve of gratuitous attacks against someone's core beliefs just for the sake of controversy either.

[Lukretius]

The reactions of these – seemingly ”ordinary” – Muslims, is without a doubt the most stupid actions I have ever seen. They DEMAND that we understand their thoughts and feelings, but the do NOTHING to understand why the pictures are legal, and why they MUST be legal. For f***’s sake.

Please Americans put some taxes on gasoline and demand that your government spend the revenue on research on alternative fuels. Then we can demand from our government that they spend the high taxes we’ve had here for years, for the same purposes (they have always just been behavioural taxes with the intend of making people consume less gasoline). Hopefully that would lead to a cheap alternative to oil in a hurry. As far as I understand, we’re not even that far away today.

The point being obviously that with no need for oil in our part of the world, the Arabic world will see – in a hurry – what good it does to base your society on religion. These people (with a maximum generalization) can’t do anything by themselves. They are on a broad scale ignorant, intolerant, uneducated, and downright idiotic. Let them have they stupidity for them selves, and let them feel what comes out of their kind of thinking.

That way WE won’t have to be as much hypocrites either. The Iraqi war was never about anything else than the fact, that the Iraqis has the second largest oil reserves in the world, and Bush wanted to put some pressure on the largest oil reserve – Saudi Arabia – after September 11.

Get rid of the oil dependency and let’s see the Arabic world turn even poorer than they are now, and let them have all the theocracies they want, just keep some heavy weapons pointed in that direction and some agents gathering real intelligence.

F*** I’m tired of this s***.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Lukretius

The reactions of these – seemingly ”ordinary” – Muslims, is without a doubt the most stupid actions I have ever seen. They DEMAND that we understand their thoughts and feelings, but the do NOTHING to understand why the pictures are legal, and why they MUST be legal. For f***’s sake.

Please Americans put some taxes on gasoline and demand that your government spend the revenue on research on alternative fuels. Then we can demand from our government that they spend the high taxes we’ve had here for years, for the same purposes (they have always just been behavioural taxes with the intend of making people consume less gasoline). Hopefully that would lead to a cheap alternative to oil in a hurry. As far as I understand, we’re not even that far away today.

The point being obviously that with no need for oil in our part of the world, the Arabic world will see – in a hurry – what good it does to base your society on religion. These people (with a maximum generalization) can’t do anything by themselves. They are on a broad scale ignorant, intolerant, uneducated, and downright idiotic. Let them have they stupidity for them selves, and let them feel what comes out of their kind of thinking.

That way WE won’t have to be as much hypocrites either. The Iraqi war was never about anything else than the fact, that the Iraqis has the second largest oil reserves in the world, and Bush wanted to put some pressure on the largest oil reserve – Saudi Arabia – after September 11.

Get rid of the oil dependency and let’s see the Arabic world turn even poorer than they are now, and let them have all the theocracies they want, just keep some heavy weapons pointed in that direction and some agents gathering real intelligence.

F*** I’m tired of this s***.

Our president, vice-president, secretary of state (people on this very board are already thrilled at the prospect of her becoming president), and many others are all oil executives. I agree with your sentiment, but ain't gonna happen in your lifetime or mine.

[Elind]

Originally Posted by Orwell

Would you be offended if I posted anti-Semitic cartoons? Yes, and rightly so. You would probably accuse me of being an anti-Semite. There's a chance I would even get expelled from this forum. Is posting anti-Semitic cartoons against the law? No.

If you published a cartoon of someone with dreadlocks and a box on his head, bashing his head against a wall, would you be expelled from this forum? No!

If I said I saw one once in an airport doing that and thought momentarily he was a pervert jerking off against the wall, would I be expelled? We'll see.

Yes, there is an issue of sensitivity and some may like to be more sensitive than others, but why should one group demand to be treated with more sensitivity than any other?

Poor Kurious Kathy has received a lot more insensitivity on this forum than any Muslims, and that is on religion too, but she is not asking for the death of anyone. (she says her god might, but she isn't)

This is a matter of treating people(s) like adults, not children. (or perhaps the reverse). They need to grow up, that's all.

[richardm]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

How disapointing of the Guardian. There was a time when a liberal leaning paper would have gone to the mat for freedom of speech.

Be fair; the article says:

Originally Posted by The Guardian

The cartoons, which are of very mixed quality (and which many newspapers would reject on those grounds alone), offend and provoke. But that is what cartoons do, whether they are good or bad. The right to freedom of speech which allows newspapers to publish such provocative cartoons has been hard won, is inextricably essential to liberty, must be robustly defended and has sometimes to be controversially asserted.

I don't believe that the Danes should have apologised for initially publishing them, but I don't see how, after hearing that people were offended by them, anyone can interpret the republishing of them as anything other than a provocation. It doesn't excuse what's going on, but honestly - who is surprised that this has been the reaction? I think this is all the Guardian is getting at - just because we can say it doesn't mean we have to keep on hammering the insult home.

[Elind]

Going south of the equator now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3561502a12,00.html

After posting this I tried the link that is supposed to give a bigger version of the cartoons, but can't connect. Perhaps overloaded?

Do others get the same?

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Orwell

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/st...700999,00.html

I didn't say they couldn't rationalize their decision.

[Orwell]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I didn't say they couldn't rationalize their decision.

Well, I happen to think that their position is reasonable. I've explained why in my previous post.

[Bjorn]

Washington Post/Reuters right now:

Quote:

US sides with Muslims in cartoon dispute

Quote:

Reuters
Friday, February 3, 2006; 11:55 AM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Washington on Friday condemned caricatures in European newspapers of Islam\'s Prophet Mohammad, siding with Muslims who are outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question. "We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Orwell

Would you be offended if I posted anti-Semitic cartoons? Yes, and rightly so.

It depends on the context. If you were promoting anti-Semitic steriotypes, then yes, I would be offended. If you were saying, "Hey, look at this anti-Semitic trash" then no, I wouldn't.

In fact, in that context, I believe I've posted anti-Semitic cartoons in this forum. Another user had linked to an anti-Israel article, I checked out the link, found some anti-Semitic cartoons, and I reposted them here saying, "Hey, look what else your source says!"