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odorousrex · 6th February 2006, 09:55 AM

So I was at the gym, and saw a commercial for this migraine relief "GlueStick" (for lack of a better term) that you apply directly to your forehead (red flag #1 went up) to help relieve migraine pain. The happy migraine free woman on the commercial declares it's "all natural" (red flag #2)

I thought I'd look into it at least because my wife is a frequent sufferer of migraines, and the perscription medications such as Imitrix give her digestive distress.

Found it on the internet here:
http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...Y-PLST-0-BRAND

and immediately saw the "Homeopathic" (Red flag #3) which sealed the fate of this product as "snake oil" in my eyes.

Can anyone with homeopathic experience explain to me the ingriedient list in this thing?

Is medicine going thru the forehead, skull, to your brain even possible?

ChristineR · 6th February 2006, 10:06 AM

The homeopathic ingredients are a bad idea--Potassium Dichromate, ick! But one of its "inactive" ingredients is menthol--i.e., it works like Vicks Vap-o-Rub.

Hellbound · 6th February 2006, 10:43 AM

Actually, at the Homeopathic concentrations listed for this product, none of the active ingredients are contained in the product.

odorousrex · 6th February 2006, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChristineR

The homeopathic ingredients are a bad idea--Potassium Dichromate, ick! But one of its "inactive" ingredients is menthol--i.e., it works like Vicks Vap-o-Rub.

I noticed that. Lending me to beleive it's one of those "Ah, it smells like medicine so it MUST be working!" tricks these guys are so clever at.

ChristineR · 6th February 2006, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Actually, at the Homeopathic concentrations listed for this product, none of the active ingredients are contained in the product.

6X is 1 ppm, which is plenty high enough for Potassium Dichromate.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p5719.htm

Quote:

- OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL):
For chromic acid and chromates, as CrO3 = 0.1 mg/m3 (ceiling)
- ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV):
For water-soluble Cr(VI) compounds, as Cr = 0.05 mg/m3 (TWA), A1 - confirmed human carcinogen.

But I'm not sure how to read the label, it looks like they didn't start with pure K2Cr2O7. In any case, there are several menthol based rubs/patches out there which you can use to relieve a migrane, if you find it helps you.

Hellbound · 6th February 2006, 11:16 AM

Christine:

They started with a .03% (30,000 ppm) solution, though. Dilute that to 6X potency, if there's any left I'd be suprised

On second thought, there might be some, but not enough to be physiologically active. After a 6X dilution, that's, what, .0000000003% (.03 ppm)? It weighs 5.67 grams, so that makes about .0000017 milligrams for the entire tube.

If there's any effect at all (highly doubtful), it's from something supposedly "inactive".

Edited because I forgot to add two decimal places for a percent to convert to decimal

Lisa Simpson · 6th February 2006, 11:17 AM

Barb, one of the forum homeopaths, told me about this. It really worked wonders for my migraines. I went from having about 20 migraines per month to 3 or 4. It's a device worn over the front teeth while asleep to keep the user from clenching the back teeth. I didn't even know I was clenching and that the clenching was the cause of my migraines.

ChristineR · 6th February 2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Christine:

They started with a .03% solution, though. Dilute that to 6X potency, if there's any left I'd be suprised

On second thought, there might be some, but not enough to be physiologically active. After a 6X dilution, that's, what, .00000003%? It weighs 5.67 grams, so that makes about .00017 milligrams for the entire tube.

Going back to what I quoted before, .05 mg/m^3 solution would correspond to .05 mg / 1,000,000 g water, or one part per 20,000,000,000 (20 (US) billion) or .00000000005%. So it's way, way past the permissible levels, although I'm not totally sure how to interpret those guidelines. Of course you're not going to bathe in the stuff, so maybe the .00017 mg is acceptable. Still, we're talking about very, very nasty stuff.

Almo · 6th February 2006, 12:09 PM

Maxalt RPD. Works. Is damned expensive though.

ETA:

And screw that "all natural" crap. Botchulism is totally natural. I won't be having any of THAT though.

patnray · 6th February 2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by ChristineR

Going back to what I quoted before, .05 mg/m^3 solution would correspond to .05 mg / 1,000,000 g water, or one part per 20,000,000,000 (20 (US) billion) or .00000000005%. So it's way, way past the permissible levels, although I'm not totally sure how to interpret those guidelines. Of course you're not going to bathe in the stuff, so maybe the .00017 mg is acceptable. Still, we're talking about very, very nasty stuff.

Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"...

I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube.

ChristineR · 6th February 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by patnray

Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"...

I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube.

Unless they mean that .03% of the goop in the tube is the 6X solution.

Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding all this. If the goop is 1% "remedy" wouldn't that make is 6X1C?

Of course there's the added problem that you aren't eating the stuff. So you are rubbing an insignifigant amount of an chemically inert substance and supposedly getting the same result as if you had eaten a signifigant amount of the chemically inert substance?

It really irritates me when these guys can't even stick to their own rules.

Genesius · 6th February 2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Almo

Maxalt RPD. Works. Is damned expensive though.

Wish it worked for everybody. My wife can't take triptans - makes her heartbeat fast & irregular, and doesn't touch the migraine to boot.

Hellbound · 6th February 2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by patnray

Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"...

I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube.

Good point pat, I was considering the entire volume of the tube. No idea on the amounts (unless the .03 was the percent that was the 6x homeopathic rememdy....Ah hell).

Oh, yeah, it's .0000017mg, not .00017. Made a mistake in my initial math.

neuf08 · 17th September 2008, 05:47 AM

I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies when appropriate, but who also uses all sorts of natural remedies. Anyway, one good one for headaches is Petadolex for migraines. The site where I get my supplements,

Edited by Lisa Simpson:

Edited to remove ad.

sells it. It has butterbur in it, and it works in the brain to improve blood vessel tone and circulation. It's very good for helping to prevent migraines if you tend to suffer from them on a fairly regular basis. I would also recommend trying to determine what triggers them for you. Good luck.

Gravy · 17th September 2008, 06:32 AM

Zombie thread!

Welcome to the forums, neuf08.

Originally Posted by neuf08

I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies when appropriate, but who also uses all sorts of natural remedies.

Do you know how your naturopath decides if a homeopathic remedy is appropriate?

Quote:

Anyway, one good one for headaches is Petadolex for migraines. The site where I get my supplements, seacoastvitamins.com, sells it. It has butterbur in it, and it works in the brain to improve blood vessel tone and circulation. It's very good for helping to prevent migraines if you tend to suffer from them on a fairly regular basis. I would also recommend trying to determine what triggers them for you. Good luck.

Interesting. I took a look at some butterbur/migraine trial abstracts and they showed positive results in many cases, as compared to placebos.

Crundy · 17th September 2008, 06:55 AM

Dear god, have you seen the reviews of the product on the site? It's screaming out for a double blind trial using a menthol stick instead (oh wait, homeopathic treatments don't go through DBTs).

I did laugh at:

Quote:

**The letters H.P.U.S. indicate that the components in this product are officially monographed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States.

Oh thank god for that. Here I was thinking there were unlicensed drugs in this product, but now I know that they are listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia I feel much better.

Kuko 4000 · 17th September 2008, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by neuf08

It has butterbur in it, and it works in the brain to improve blood vessel tone and circulation. It's very good for helping to prevent migraines if you tend to suffer from them on a fairly regular basis.

I was under the impression that migraines happen because the vessels get too much blood? If this actually increases the blood flow and circulations, isn't it dangerous? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Here's where I got my info:

http://www.migraines.org/myth/mythreal.htm

Quote:

MYTH: A MIGRAINE IS JUST A BAD HEADACHE.

REALITY: MIGRAINE IS A DISEASE, A HEADACHE IS ONLY A SYMPTOM. IN ADDITION, THE CAUSE OF MIGRAINE PAIN IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE CAUSE OF HEADACHE PAIN.

Migraine is disease, a headache is only a symptom. Migraine pain is caused by vasodilation in the cranial blood vessels (expansion of the blood vessels), while headache pain is caused by vasoconstriction (narrowing of the blood vessels). During a migraine, inflammation of the tissue surrounding the brain, i.e., neurogenic inflammation, exacerbates the pain. Therefore, medicine often prescribed to treat a headache, such as beta-blockers, dilate the blood vessels and therefore can make a Migraine worse.

Professor Yaffle · 17th September 2008, 07:10 AM

In the UK we have what is essentially an identical product (4head) without the homeopathy woo. They explicitly state that levomenthol is the active ingredient.

http://www.4headaches.co.uk/

Locknar · 17th September 2008, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by neuf08

I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches <snip>

A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website?

I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post.

Mojo · 17th September 2008, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Locknar

A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website?

I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post.

neuf08 also doesn't seem to know the difference between homoeopathy and herbal medicine, by the way.

Dragonrock · 17th September 2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Locknar

A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website?

I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post.

I suspect you're right and that he didn't even look at what type of forum this was.

Gravy · 17th September 2008, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

neuf08 also doesn't seem to know the difference between homoeopathy and herbal medicine, by the way.

I think you're missing that neuf08 stated that he/she hasn't used homeopathic remedies for headache, then recommended an herbal non-homeopathic remedy.

Bob Blaylock · 17th September 2008, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by neuf08

I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. …

There's one born every minute.

Ashles · 17th September 2008, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by neuf08

I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies when appropriate, but who also uses all sorts of natural remedies. Anyway, one good one for headaches is Petadolex for migraines. The site where I get my supplements, seacoastvitamins.com, sells it.

Apparently spam is good for migraines.

Soapy Sam · 17th September 2008, 04:00 PM

Almost anything can make you forget a migraine if you bang yourself on the head with it hard enough- but I'm sure rocks are cheaper.

ksbluesfan · 17th September 2008, 04:05 PM

Vicodin seems to relieve my headaches. I don't think it's all natural though.

Mojo · 17th September 2008, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ashles

Apparently spam is good for migraines.

And fritters.

Skeptic Ginger · 17th September 2008, 11:09 PM

Glue Stick.

Just wanted to add:

One) anything applied to the skin can affect about a millimeter or two locally and then it's absorbed into the bloodstream. It cannot affect the head except via the blood so this method of application is a fraud.

Two) The commercials only imply all these products do anything, apply to forehead, apply to scar etc. Listen carefully, no real claims are made.

Three) Head On has already lost a lawsuit for fraud. They've had to refund millions though they can continue to sell the product. Go figure.

JoeyDonuts · 17th September 2008, 11:15 PM

What?!? Head-On doesn't work?!? Crap.

Next you'll be telling me Enzyte is load of bull too.

Professor Yaffle · 17th September 2008, 11:35 PM

It basically works in the same way that putting a cool damp cloth or gel pack on your forehead works.

Gate2501 · 17th September 2008, 11:45 PM

I actually have a T shirt that is a parody of HeadOn.

HEADSHOT, APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD.

Its a gamer thing but yeah, I found it funny.

Locknar · 18th September 2008, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

Next you'll be telling me Enzyte is load of bull too.

The comment potential to this is just overwhelming!

The Enzyte commercials with "Smiling Bob" are priceless!

I was hoping that neuf08 would have more ~~spam~~ useful information to contribute to this thread...

GT/CS · 18th September 2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Kuko 4000

I was under the impression that migraines happen because the vessels get too much blood? If this actually increases the blood flow and circulations, isn't it dangerous? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Here's where I got my info:

http://www.migraines.org/myth/mythreal.htm

Yes, at least some (maybe all, I'm not sure) are caused by increased blood flow, so anything that reduces blood flow to the head should help relieve the pain. That's why caffeine helps some people.
If this product has something in it that is absorbed through the skin and reduces blood flow I suppose it could theoretically work. I doubt it does, just because the ads are so annoying, but it could be possible.

BTW, one common migraine trigger for many people is red wine. Anyone who suffers from migraines shouldn't have even a sip! White is fine but red is instant agony.

JoeyDonuts · 21st September 2008, 05:16 PM

I wonder if it's too late to get my money back for all those Kinoki detox foot pads I bought. Maybe I should put them in a garage sale along with my Ginsu knife set, FlavorWave Oven, Enzyte pills, and buckets and buckets of HeadOn.

More-On! Apply directly to the consumer!

TheDaver · 22nd September 2008, 02:45 PM

Hey, Ginsu are decent knives. Just not really japanese.

Okay, it isn’t tough to make a decent knife.

tesscaline · 22nd September 2008, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by GT/CS

Yes, at least some (maybe all, I'm not sure) are caused by increased blood flow, so anything that reduces blood flow to the head should help relieve the pain. That's why caffeine helps some people.
If this product has something in it that is absorbed through the skin and reduces blood flow I suppose it could theoretically work. I doubt it does, just because the ads are so annoying, but it could be possible.

It doesn't. It has menthol in it, which is commonly used as a topical anesthetic.

Quote:

BTW, one common migraine trigger for many people is red wine. Anyone who suffers from migraines shouldn't have even a sip! White is fine but red is instant agony.

The trigger you are talking about is the tannin in the wine, and it isn't a trigger for everyone who has migraines. Even if it is a trigger for someone, any wine that is tannin free (and there are red wines that are tannin free) is fine for them to drink.

xinit · 22nd September 2008, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

What?!? Head-On doesn't work?!? Crap.

Next you'll be telling me Enzyte is load of bull too.

I'm just glad that the Head-On folks haven't moved into the same market as the Enzyte people. I mean, it would only involve changing one letter in the name on the packaging, and changing the commercial only a bit...

JoeyDonuts · 23rd September 2008, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by xinit

I'm just glad that the Head-On folks haven't moved into the same market as the Enzyte people. I mean, it would only involve changing one letter in the name on the packaging, and changing the commercial only a bit...

Two things, though.

1. Get Billy Mays as a pitchman/on-air huckster.

2. Sponsor a really sweet NASCAR whip.

JJM · 10th December 2008, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by neuf08

{snip} I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies {snip}

I consider naturopathy the ultimate in quackery. Some say that description belongs to homeopathy; but naturopaths employ homeopathy, as well as any other quack idea they encounter. You can read about the foolishness (free registration):
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/465994
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/471156

As well as at www.naturowatch.org

Bardy · 12th December 2008, 05:13 AM

As I understand it, although the pain above the eyes and in the head is caused by vasodilation, this is just an after-effect of the migraine, as such. The actual migraine is the constriction of blood vessels at the base/back of the brain. It is this lack of blood to the areas dealing with vision and sensation in the hands which lead to the aura and the numbness that particularly severe sufferers get.

And I talk from experience

Believe me, I understand why people having their first migraine can think they're having a stroke. Blindness, numbness, vomiting, severe pain - a wonderful combination!

Apparently, this constriction happens in pulses which can be either as rapid as one every minute or two, to long slow squeezes followed by periods of relative normalcy over hours. The cause of the pain is apparently the rush of blood to the head after the first constriction relaxes. This dilates the blood vessels and causes the, frankly, crippling pain that I any many others on this thread seems to exprience when we get hit by one!

My own, purely anecdotal, evidence supports all of the bumf above that I have gleaned from my doctor and various websites, as I definitely experience the periodic tightening and loosening at the base of the neck, accompanied by related worsening or easing of the symptoms.

I control mine through watching that I don't eat any of my triggers (cheese, large amounts of chocolate all at once and, weirdly, USA-sold orange fanta!) and by ensuring I sleep regularly and eat regularly.

For the record, IMHO, homeopathic remedies for migraines are just as effective as homeopathic remedies for anything else, which is why I don't take them

Anyway, that's the benefit of my experience and input for what it's worth. Ciaoski for nowski.

ETA : Oops! Let's not forget the low doses of beta-blockers I also take which have helped!

6th February 2006, 09:55 AM	#1
odorousrex Scholar Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90	HeadOn Migraine Relief (Homeopathic) So I was at the gym, and saw a commercial for this migraine relief "GlueStick" (for lack of a better term) that you apply directly to your forehead (red flag #1 went up) to help relieve migraine pain. The happy migraine free woman on the commercial declares it's "all natural" (red flag #2) I thought I'd look into it at least because my wife is a frequent sufferer of migraines, and the perscription medications such as Imitrix give her digestive distress. Found it on the internet here: http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...Y-PLST-0-BRAND and immediately saw the "Homeopathic" (Red flag #3) which sealed the fate of this product as "snake oil" in my eyes. Can anyone with homeopathic experience explain to me the ingriedient list in this thing? Is medicine going thru the forehead, skull, to your brain even possible?
odorousrex Scholar Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90

6th February 2006, 11:04 AM	#4
odorousrex Scholar Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90	Originally Posted by ChristineR The homeopathic ingredients are a bad idea--Potassium Dichromate, ick! But one of its "inactive" ingredients is menthol--i.e., it works like Vicks Vap-o-Rub. I noticed that. Lending me to beleive it's one of those "Ah, it smells like medicine so it MUST be working!" tricks these guys are so clever at.
odorousrex Scholar Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90

6th February 2006, 11:09 AM	#5
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Originally Posted by Huntsman Actually, at the Homeopathic concentrations listed for this product, none of the active ingredients are contained in the product. 6X is 1 ppm, which is plenty high enough for Potassium Dichromate. http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p5719.htm Quote: - OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL): For chromic acid and chromates, as CrO3 = 0.1 mg/m3 (ceiling) - ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV): For water-soluble Cr(VI) compounds, as Cr = 0.05 mg/m3 (TWA), A1 - confirmed human carcinogen. But I'm not sure how to read the label, it looks like they didn't start with pure K2Cr2O7. In any case, there are several menthol based rubs/patches out there which you can use to relieve a migrane, if you find it helps you.
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189

6th February 2006, 11:16 AM	#6
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 9,030	Christine: They started with a .03% (30,000 ppm) solution, though. Dilute that to 6X potency, if there's any left I'd be suprised On second thought, there might be some, but not enough to be physiologically active. After a 6X dilution, that's, what, .0000000003% (.03 ppm)? It weighs 5.67 grams, so that makes about .0000017 milligrams for the entire tube. If there's any effect at all (highly doubtful), it's from something supposedly "inactive". Edited because I forgot to add two decimal places for a percent to convert to decimal
	Last edited by Hellbound; 6th February 2006 at 11:21 AM.

6th February 2006, 11:17 AM	#7
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,111	Barb, one of the forum homeopaths, told me about this. It really worked wonders for my migraines. I went from having about 20 migraines per month to 3 or 4. It's a device worn over the front teeth while asleep to keep the user from clenching the back teeth. I didn't even know I was clenching and that the clenching was the cause of my migraines.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

6th February 2006, 10:06 AM	#2
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	The homeopathic ingredients are a bad idea--Potassium Dichromate, ick! But one of its "inactive" ingredients is menthol--i.e., it works like Vicks Vap-o-Rub.
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189

6th February 2006, 10:43 AM	#3
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 9,030	Actually, at the Homeopathic concentrations listed for this product, none of the active ingredients are contained in the product.

6th February 2006, 11:28 AM	#8
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Originally Posted by Huntsman Christine: They started with a .03% solution, though. Dilute that to 6X potency, if there's any left I'd be suprised On second thought, there might be some, but not enough to be physiologically active. After a 6X dilution, that's, what, .00000003%? It weighs 5.67 grams, so that makes about .00017 milligrams for the entire tube. Going back to what I quoted before, .05 mg/m^3 solution would correspond to .05 mg / 1,000,000 g water, or one part per 20,000,000,000 (20 (US) billion) or .00000000005%. So it's way, way past the permissible levels, although I'm not totally sure how to interpret those guidelines. Of course you're not going to bathe in the stuff, so maybe the .00017 mg is acceptable. Still, we're talking about very, very nasty stuff.
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189

6th February 2006, 12:09 PM	#9
Almo Masterblazer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 6,414	Maxalt RPD. Works. Is damned expensive though. ETA: And *screw* that "all natural" crap. Botchulism is totally natural. I won't be having any of THAT though.
	__________________ Almo! My Blog "No society ever collapsed because the poor had too much." — LeftySergeant "It may be that there is no body really at rest, to which the places and motions of others may be referred." –Issac Newton in the Principia

6th February 2006, 12:18 PM	#10
patnray Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,008	Originally Posted by ChristineR Going back to what I quoted before, .05 mg/m^3 solution would correspond to .05 mg / 1,000,000 g water, or one part per 20,000,000,000 (20 (US) billion) or .00000000005%. So it's way, way past the permissible levels, although I'm not totally sure how to interpret those guidelines. Of course you're not going to bathe in the stuff, so maybe the .00017 mg is acceptable. Still, we're talking about very, very nasty stuff. Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"... I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube.
	__________________ Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali A powerful and moving story of a strong and courageous woman’s struggle to free herself from a culture that treats women as property. Despite repeated death threats from religious zealots, she campaigns tirelessly for the rights of Muslim women. A tearful, chilling, yet inspiring, tale of personal triumph and dedication to free expression.

6th February 2006, 12:49 PM	#11
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Originally Posted by patnray Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"... I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube. Unless they mean that .03% of the goop in the tube is the 6X solution. Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding all this. If the goop is 1% "remedy" wouldn't that make is 6X1C? Of course there's the added problem that you aren't eating the stuff. So you are rubbing an insignifigant amount of an chemically inert substance and supposedly getting the same result as if you had eaten a signifigant amount of the chemically inert substance? It really irritates me when these guys can't even stick to their own rules.
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189

6th February 2006, 12:52 PM	#12
Genesius Apathetic Agnostic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 1,535	Originally Posted by Almo Maxalt RPD. Works. Is damned expensive though. Wish it worked for everybody. My wife can't take triptans - makes her heartbeat fast & irregular, and doesn't touch the migraine to boot.
	__________________ "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the same extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." - H. L. Mencken "Why believe in things that make it tough on you?" - Devo, "Love Without Anger" GoogleBomb Sylvia Browne now! www.StopSylvia.com

6th February 2006, 01:32 PM	#13
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 9,030	Originally Posted by patnray Since we don't know how much of the homeopathic remedies each tube contains, we don't know the actual mg per tube. I suspect that it is mostly menthol and other ingredients (carriers and stabilizers) with a few drops of the "remedy"... I suspect there is much less than .00017 mg of Cr per tube. Good point pat, I was considering the entire volume of the tube. No idea on the amounts (unless the .03 was the percent that was the 6x homeopathic rememdy....Ah hell). Oh, yeah, it's .0000017mg, not .00017. Made a mistake in my initial math.

17th September 2008, 06:32 AM	#15
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Zombie thread! Welcome to the forums, neuf08. Originally Posted by neuf08 I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies when appropriate, but who also uses all sorts of natural remedies. Do you know how your naturopath decides if a homeopathic remedy is appropriate? Quote: Anyway, one good one for headaches is Petadolex for migraines. The site where I get my supplements, seacoastvitamins.com, sells it. It has butterbur in it, and it works in the brain to improve blood vessel tone and circulation. It's very good for helping to prevent migraines if you tend to suffer from them on a fairly regular basis. I would also recommend trying to determine what triggers them for you. Good luck. Interesting. I took a look at some butterbur/migraine trial abstracts and they showed positive results in many cases, as compared to placebos.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

17th September 2008, 06:55 AM	#16
Crundy Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 475	Dear god, have you seen the reviews of the product on the site? It's screaming out for a double blind trial using a menthol stick instead (oh wait, homeopathic treatments don't go through DBTs). I did laugh at: Quote: **The letters H.P.U.S. indicate that the components in this product are officially monographed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States. Oh thank god for that. Here I was thinking there were unlicensed drugs in this product, but now I know that they are listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia I feel much better.
Crundy Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 475	__________________ "You see, that is why we never do double-blind testing anymore. It never works!" - Chiropractor

17th September 2008, 07:04 AM	#17
Kuko 4000 Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 1,569	Originally Posted by neuf08 It has butterbur in it, and it works in the brain to improve blood vessel tone and circulation. It's very good for helping to prevent migraines if you tend to suffer from them on a fairly regular basis. I was under the impression that migraines happen because the vessels get too much blood? If this actually increases the blood flow and circulations, isn't it dangerous? Correct me if I'm wrong here. Here's where I got my info: http://www.migraines.org/myth/mythreal.htm Quote: MYTH: A MIGRAINE IS JUST A BAD HEADACHE. REALITY: MIGRAINE IS A DISEASE, A HEADACHE IS ONLY A SYMPTOM. IN ADDITION, THE CAUSE OF MIGRAINE PAIN IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE CAUSE OF HEADACHE PAIN. Migraine is disease, a headache is only a symptom. Migraine pain is caused by vasodilation in the cranial blood vessels (expansion of the blood vessels), while headache pain is caused by vasoconstriction (narrowing of the blood vessels). During a migraine, inflammation of the tissue surrounding the brain, i.e., neurogenic inflammation, exacerbates the pain. Therefore, medicine often prescribed to treat a headache, such as beta-blockers, dilate the blood vessels and therefore can make a Migraine worse.
	__________________ Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." Last edited by Kuko 4000; 17th September 2008 at 07:48 AM.

17th September 2008, 07:10 AM	#18
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,450	In the UK we have what is essentially an identical product (4head) without the homeopathy woo. They explicitly state that levomenthol is the active ingredient. http://www.4headaches.co.uk/
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat

17th September 2008, 07:40 AM	#19
Locknar Sum of all evils ^tm Deputy Admin Join Date: May 2007 Location: 25.50 N, 77.54 W Posts: 14,499	Originally Posted by neuf08 I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches <snip> A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website? I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post.
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17th September 2008, 08:37 AM	#20
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,489	Originally Posted by Locknar A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website? I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post. neuf08 also doesn't seem to know the difference between homoeopathy and herbal medicine, by the way.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

17th September 2008, 08:40 AM	#21
Dragonrock Militant Elvisian Tacoist Join Date: May 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 9,859	Originally Posted by Locknar A new user, on their 1st (and thus far only post) tracks down a thread from 6 FEB 06...and the "meaningful" contribution is the suggestion folks try a product bought from a website? I'm thinking this is nothing more then a ad for the website & product mentioned in neuf08's post. I suspect you're right and that he didn't even look at what type of forum this was.
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17th September 2008, 11:44 AM	#22
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by Mojo neuf08 also doesn't seem to know the difference between homoeopathy and herbal medicine, by the way. I think you're missing that neuf08 stated that he/she hasn't used homeopathic remedies for headache, then recommended an herbal non-homeopathic remedy.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

17th September 2008, 12:13 PM	#23
Bob Blaylock Forklift Operator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N38°35' W121°29' Posts: 3,013	Originally Posted by neuf08 I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. … There's one born every minute.

17th September 2008, 12:14 PM	#24
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Originally Posted by neuf08 I haven't used homeopathic meds for headaches, but do like them a lot for the other things I use them for. I have a great naturopath who suggests homeopathic rememdies when appropriate, but who also uses all sorts of natural remedies. Anyway, one good one for headaches is Petadolex for migraines. The site where I get my supplements, seacoastvitamins.com, sells it. Apparently spam is good for migraines.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

17th September 2008, 04:00 PM	#25
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929	Almost anything can make you forget a migraine if you bang yourself on the head with it hard enough- but I'm sure rocks are cheaper.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929

17th September 2008, 04:05 PM	#26
ksbluesfan Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,384	Vicodin seems to relieve my headaches. I don't think it's all natural though.

17th September 2008, 04:23 PM	#27
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,489	Originally Posted by Ashles Apparently spam is good for migraines. And fritters.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

17th September 2008, 11:09 PM	#28
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Glue Stick. Just wanted to add: One) anything applied to the skin can affect about a millimeter or two locally and then it's absorbed into the bloodstream. It cannot affect the head except via the blood so this method of application is a fraud. Two) The commercials only imply all these products do anything, apply to forehead, apply to scar etc. Listen carefully, no real claims are made. Three) Head On has already lost a lawsuit for fraud. They've had to refund millions though they can continue to sell the product. Go figure.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

17th September 2008, 11:15 PM	#29
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	What?!? Head-On doesn't work?!? Crap. Next you'll be telling me Enzyte is load of bull too.

17th September 2008, 11:35 PM	#30
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,450	It basically works in the same way that putting a cool damp cloth or gel pack on your forehead works.
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat

17th September 2008, 11:45 PM	#31
Gate2501 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,377	I actually have a T shirt that is a parody of HeadOn. HEADSHOT, APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD. Its a gamer thing but yeah, I found it funny.

18th September 2008, 04:44 AM	#32
Locknar Sum of all evils ^tm Deputy Admin Join Date: May 2007 Location: 25.50 N, 77.54 W Posts: 14,499	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts Next you'll be telling me Enzyte is load of bull too. The comment potential to this is just overwhelming! The Enzyte commercials with "Smiling Bob" are priceless! I was hoping that neuf08 would have more ~~spam~~ useful information to contribute to this thread...
	__________________ Member Simpson 15 and Ex-defendant in Simpson v. Randi, et al. \| StopSylvia.com \| JREF Forum Twitter

18th September 2008, 02:47 PM	#33
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,630	Originally Posted by Kuko 4000 I was under the impression that migraines happen because the vessels get too much blood? If this actually increases the blood flow and circulations, isn't it dangerous? Correct me if I'm wrong here. Here's where I got my info: http://www.migraines.org/myth/mythreal.htm Yes, at least some (maybe all, I'm not sure) are caused by increased blood flow, so anything that reduces blood flow to the head should help relieve the pain. That's why caffeine helps some people. If this product has something in it that is absorbed through the skin and reduces blood flow I suppose it could theoretically work. I doubt it does, just because the ads are so annoying, but it could be possible. BTW, one common migraine trigger for many people is red wine. Anyone who suffers from migraines shouldn't have even a sip! White is fine but red is instant agony.
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,630	__________________ SweatyYeti or Bill Munns would be my vote for looking at this - BFSleuth @ BFF I've got plenty of common sense! I just choose to ignore it. - Calvin; October 15, 1986 Last edited by GT/CS; 18th September 2008 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Spelling

21st September 2008, 05:16 PM	#34
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	I wonder if it's too late to get my money back for all those Kinoki detox foot pads I bought. Maybe I should put them in a garage sale along with my Ginsu knife set, FlavorWave Oven, Enzyte pills, and buckets and buckets of HeadOn. More-On! Apply directly to the consumer!

22nd September 2008, 02:45 PM	#35
TheDaver hairy farting brute Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montréal Posts: 972	Hey, Ginsu are decent knives. Just not really japanese. Okay, it isn’t tough to make a decent knife.

22nd September 2008, 03:21 PM	#36
tesscaline Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,037	Originally Posted by GT/CS Yes, at least some (maybe all, I'm not sure) are caused by increased blood flow, so anything that reduces blood flow to the head should help relieve the pain. That's why caffeine helps some people. If this product has something in it that is absorbed through the skin and reduces blood flow I suppose it could theoretically work. I doubt it does, just because the ads are so annoying, but it could be possible. It doesn't. It has menthol in it, which is commonly used as a topical anesthetic. Quote: BTW, one common migraine trigger for many people is red wine. Anyone who suffers from migraines shouldn't have even a sip! White is fine but red is instant agony. The trigger you are talking about is the tannin in the wine, and it isn't a trigger for everyone who has migraines. Even if it is a trigger for someone, any wine that is tannin free (and there are red wines that are tannin free) is fine for them to drink.