6 Year Old Suspended for Sexual Harassment

schplurg · 8th February 2006, 08:56 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html

Quote:

BROCKTON, Mass. — A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him.

The boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, said she "screamed" about last week's suspension from Downey Elementary School, and added her son doesn't know what sexual harassment is.

"He doesn't know those things," she told The Enterprise of Brockton. "He's only 6 years old."

Sexual harrassment? Not much info in the story, but even if a six year old grabbed a classmates butt I would think it a mighty big stretch to find any kind of sexual intent in it.

Supposing it was "sexual" in nature, shouldn't the charge be some sort of sexual assault?

Wouldn't "inappropriate touching" be good enough? Do we need the sexual connotation? What are these people thinking?

epepke · 8th February 2006, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by schplurg

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html

Sexual harrassment? Not much info in the story, but even if a six year old grabbed a classmates butt I would think it a mighty big stretch to find any kind of sexual intent in it.

Supposing it was "sexual" in nature, shouldn't the charge be some sort of sexual assault?

Wouldn't "inappropriate touching" be good enough? Do we need the sexual connotation? What are these people thinking?

Well, gay males keep telling me that they always knew they were gay. I have clear memories from six years old, so presumably, sexual orientation dates from before six.

(I'm not defending the action, just drawing attention to an issue.)

The Fool · 8th February 2006, 09:26 PM

This is all based on the statements of the suspended childs mother. The school has (rightly) refused to discuss the details of a 6 year old child with a newspaper reporter..

so who the hell knows what may have actually happened or if any of the things described by the mother have any truth behind them...

schplurg · 8th February 2006, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Fool

This is all based on the statements of the suspended childs mother. The school has (rightly) refused to discuss the details of a 6 year old child with a newspaper reporter..

Says who? From the article, and my quote in the OP:

Quote:

A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him.

Fool, this sentence is not a quote from the mother. The story says "school officials said", it does not say "mother alleges..."

Also...

Quote:

School officials declined comment to The Enterprise

This story is from AP, not The Enterprise. Some of her quotes were made to an Enterprise reporter in an interview.

Quote:

"They would have not suspended the child without doing an investigation," said spokeswoman Cynthia McNally.

Spokeswoman for whom, I wonder?

As far as 6 year olds having sexual intent in situations such as this, let's say it's possible. Should any unwanted contact made between a boy and a girl at such an age be considered sexual and be punishable as such? Let's say the description of what occurred is true, that he grabbed her waistband with 2 fingers. Isn't this a bit of an overreaction (barring any special circumstances such as the boy displaying some extreme "sexually oriented beahavior problems" in the past)?

This case isn't that surprising to me. We've had 10 year olds suspended or expelled for bringing aspirin to class. It's the added "sexual" aspect of this case that bothers me.

TragicMonkey · 8th February 2006, 11:02 PM

Is this story covered anywhere by anyone other than Fox News? Not that they aren't completely fair and balanced, of course. Perish the thought!

epepke · 8th February 2006, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Is this story covered anywhere by anyone other than Fox News? Not that they aren't completely fair and balanced, of course. Perish the thought!

I wondered about that, too, but it's on ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1591633

SixSixSix · 9th February 2006, 01:37 AM

Is there a euphemism I'm missing here? This doesn't sound substantially different from sticking pig tails in ink wells, or playing "kiss chasey".

Though I suppose in this modern society those would be considered sexual harrassment as well. Sigh.

CFLarsen · 9th February 2006, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by SixSixSix

Is there a euphemism I'm missing here? This doesn't sound substantially different from sticking pig tails in ink wells, or playing "kiss chasey".

Though I suppose in this modern society those would be considered sexual harrassment as well. Sigh.

Ever played "Doctor"?

ETA: I meant: As a kid?

El Greco · 9th February 2006, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Ever played "Doctor"?

ETA: I meant: As a kid?

I did, but I was so freaking idiot that I wasn't playing the gynecologist but the radiologist.

SixSixSix · 9th February 2006, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Ever played "Doctor"?

ETA: I meant: As a kid?

Of course, but at that age I'm not sure there was anything sexual about it. I realise that there has been some considerable psychological research into children's sexuality, and I do not mean to imply that it's all bollocks, but I'm sure I'm not the only boy here that tried to avoid "girl germs" when I was littler.

NeilC · 9th February 2006, 04:56 AM

Kids sometimes do sexual things at young ages. You just tell them what is and isn't appropriate and move on. You don't expel them, prosecute them, label them perverts or god forbid, let them within 100 miles of a child psychologist/social worker.

Christ, if people aren't medicalising life then they are legalising it.

CFLarsen · 9th February 2006, 05:00 AM

My point is: Today, that would be regarded as sexual harassment of a far worse kind than what this kid did.

NeilC · 9th February 2006, 05:06 AM

I agree. It points to a ******-up set of values don't you think. I remember when I was about 7 a girl I used to play with made me dress up, wear my dads aftershave and go into her garden shed so she could kiss me. I had no idea why. Hasn't scarred me but today it would be "inappropriate behaviour".

Having said that I do get sexual thoughts about lawn-mowers.

BPSCG · 9th February 2006, 09:03 AM

Life imitates South Park:

"Did you know that when one little panda pulls on another little panda's underwear, that's sexual harassment? That makes me a sa-a-a-a-ad panda."
-- Petey, the Sexual Harassment Panda

Beerina · 9th February 2006, 10:19 AM

I'll bet the girl whose pants were pulled out a bit probably suffered more psychological damage from the big f****** stink the adults made than from the activity itself, which, of course, offered mathematically zero damage to her psyche.

And the other little kid, they just made him destined for a lifelong spot warming a psychiatrist's chair. Giving him some idea that he's done a terrible, terrible evil at such an early age.

I don't want to be in the same species as some of you people.

TragicMonkey · 9th February 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Splossy

Kids sometimes do sexual things at young ages. You just tell them what is and isn't appropriate and move on. You don't expel them, prosecute them, label them perverts or god forbid, let them within 100 miles of a child psychologist/social worker.

Unfortunately, in a (I hope) rare number of such incidents, what happens is that a child who is sexually molested repeats the behavior on other children. You can't dismiss every incident so easily; there might be something behind it.

The Fool · 9th February 2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by schplurg

Says who? From the article, and my quote in the OP:
Fool, this sentence is not a quote from the mother. The story says "school officials said", it does not say "mother alleges..."

basically....says me.

The article says the school would not make a comment, rightly so.

The only person they are reporting is the mother...this is simply repeating what the mother says she was told.

pgwenthold · 9th February 2006, 02:58 PM

Since when is a single action considered harassment? I always figured harassment to be a persistent thing. Form the AmHer dico:

ha·rass v. –tr. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es. 1. To irritate or torment persistently. 2. To wear out; exhaust. 3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids

So all the definitions have this issue of persistence, repetition (or prolonged action, to wear out)

I don't know about the legal definition, but clearly sticking fingers in a waist band once is not harassment by any common definition.

8th February 2006, 08:56 PM	#1
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 923	6 Year Old Suspended for Sexual Harassment http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html Quote: BROCKTON, Mass. — A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him. The boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, said she "screamed" about last week's suspension from Downey Elementary School, and added her son doesn't know what sexual harassment is. "He doesn't know those things," she told The Enterprise of Brockton. "He's only 6 years old." Sexual harrassment? Not much info in the story, but even if a six year old grabbed a classmates butt I would think it a mighty big stretch to find any kind of sexual intent in it. Supposing it was "sexual" in nature, shouldn't the charge be some sort of sexual assault? Wouldn't "inappropriate touching" be good enough? Do we need the sexual connotation? What are these people thinking?
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 923

8th February 2006, 09:17 PM	#2
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Originally Posted by schplurg http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html Sexual harrassment? Not much info in the story, but even if a six year old grabbed a classmates butt I would think it a mighty big stretch to find any kind of sexual intent in it. Supposing it was "sexual" in nature, shouldn't the charge be some sort of sexual assault? Wouldn't "inappropriate touching" be good enough? Do we need the sexual connotation? What are these people thinking? Well, gay males keep telling me that they always knew they were gay. I have clear memories from six years old, so presumably, sexual orientation dates from before six. (I'm not defending the action, just drawing attention to an issue.)
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	__________________ "It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora "There's no evidence that the 9-11 attacks (whoever did them) were deliberately attacking civilians. On the contrary the targets appear to have been chosen as military." -DavidByron

8th February 2006, 09:26 PM	#3
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	This is all based on the statements of the suspended childs mother. The school has (rightly) refused to discuss the details of a 6 year old child with a newspaper reporter.. so who the hell knows what may have actually happened or if any of the things described by the mother have any truth behind them...
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

8th February 2006, 10:43 PM	#4
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 923	Originally Posted by The Fool This is all based on the statements of the suspended childs mother. The school has (rightly) refused to discuss the details of a 6 year old child with a newspaper reporter.. Says who? From the article, and my quote in the OP: Quote: A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him. Fool, this sentence is not a quote from the mother. The story says "school officials said", it does not say "mother alleges..." Also... Quote: School officials declined comment to The Enterprise This story is from AP, not The Enterprise. Some of her quotes were made to an Enterprise reporter in an interview. Quote: "They would have not suspended the child without doing an investigation," said spokeswoman Cynthia McNally. Spokeswoman for whom, I wonder? As far as 6 year olds having sexual intent in situations such as this, let's say it's possible. Should any unwanted contact made between a boy and a girl at such an age be considered sexual and be punishable as such? Let's say the description of what occurred is true, that he grabbed her waistband with 2 fingers. Isn't this a bit of an overreaction (barring any special circumstances such as the boy displaying some extreme "sexually oriented beahavior problems" in the past)? This case isn't that surprising to me. We've had 10 year olds suspended or expelled for bringing aspirin to class. It's the added "sexual" aspect of this case that bothers me.
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 923	Last edited by schplurg; 8th February 2006 at 10:46 PM.

8th February 2006, 11:02 PM	#5
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,059	Is this story covered anywhere by anyone other than Fox News? Not that they aren't completely fair and balanced, of course. Perish the thought!
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

8th February 2006, 11:43 PM	#6
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Is this story covered anywhere by anyone other than Fox News? Not that they aren't completely fair and balanced, of course. Perish the thought! I wondered about that, too, but it's on ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1591633
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	__________________ "It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora "There's no evidence that the 9-11 attacks (whoever did them) were deliberately attacking civilians. On the contrary the targets appear to have been chosen as military." -DavidByron

9th February 2006, 01:37 AM	#7
SixSixSix Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 456	Is there a euphemism I'm missing here? This doesn't sound substantially different from sticking pig tails in ink wells, or playing "kiss chasey". Though I suppose in this modern society those would be considered sexual harrassment as well. Sigh.
	__________________ Though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.

9th February 2006, 03:38 AM	#8
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by SixSixSix Is there a euphemism I'm missing here? This doesn't sound substantially different from sticking pig tails in ink wells, or playing "kiss chasey". Though I suppose in this modern society those would be considered sexual harrassment as well. Sigh. Ever played "Doctor"? ETA: I meant: As a kid?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

9th February 2006, 03:53 AM	#9
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,259	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Ever played "Doctor"? ETA: I meant: As a kid? I did, but I was so freaking idiot that I wasn't playing the gynecologist but the radiologist.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

9th February 2006, 04:20 AM	#10
SixSixSix Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 456	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Ever played "Doctor"? ETA: I meant: As a kid? Of course, but at that age I'm not sure there was anything sexual about it. I realise that there has been some considerable psychological research into children's sexuality, and I do not mean to imply that it's all bollocks, but I'm sure I'm not the only boy here that tried to avoid "girl germs" when I was littler.
	__________________ Though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.

9th February 2006, 04:56 AM	#11
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,331	Kids sometimes do sexual things at young ages. You just tell them what is and isn't appropriate and move on. You don't expel them, prosecute them, label them perverts or god forbid, let them within 100 miles of a child psychologist/social worker. Christ, if people aren't medicalising life then they are legalising it.

9th February 2006, 05:00 AM	#12
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	My point is: Today, that would be regarded as sexual harassment of a far worse kind than what this kid did.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

9th February 2006, 05:06 AM	#13
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,331	I agree. It points to a ******-up set of values don't you think. I remember when I was about 7 a girl I used to play with made me dress up, wear my dads aftershave and go into her garden shed so she could kiss me. I had no idea why. Hasn't scarred me but today it would be "inappropriate behaviour". Having said that I do get sexual thoughts about lawn-mowers.

9th February 2006, 09:03 AM	#14
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Life imitates South Park: "Did you know that when one little panda pulls on another little panda's underwear, that's sexual harassment? That makes me a sa-a-a-a-ad panda." -- Petey, the Sexual Harassment Panda
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

9th February 2006, 10:19 AM	#15
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	I'll bet the girl whose pants were pulled out a bit probably suffered more psychological damage from the big f****** stink the adults made than from the activity itself, which, of course, offered mathematically zero damage to her psyche. And the other little kid, they just made him destined for a lifelong spot warming a psychiatrist's chair. Giving him some idea that he's done a terrible, terrible evil at such an early age. I don't want to be in the same species as some of you people.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

9th February 2006, 10:29 AM	#16
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,059	Originally Posted by Splossy Kids sometimes do sexual things at young ages. You just tell them what is and isn't appropriate and move on. You don't expel them, prosecute them, label them perverts or god forbid, let them within 100 miles of a child psychologist/social worker. Unfortunately, in a (I hope) rare number of such incidents, what happens is that a child who is sexually molested repeats the behavior on other children. You can't dismiss every incident so easily; there might be something behind it.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

9th February 2006, 02:17 PM	#17
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by schplurg Says who? From the article, and my quote in the OP: Fool, this sentence is not a quote from the mother. The story says "school officials said", it does not say "mother alleges..." basically....says me. The article says the school would not make a comment, rightly so. The only person they are reporting is the mother...this is simply repeating what the mother says she was told.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

9th February 2006, 02:58 PM	#18
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,066	Since when is a single action considered harassment? I always figured harassment to be a persistent thing. Form the AmHer dico: ha·rass v. –tr. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es. 1. To irritate or torment persistently. 2. To wear out; exhaust. 3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids So all the definitions have this issue of persistence, repetition (or prolonged action, to wear out) I don't know about the legal definition, but clearly sticking fingers in a waist band once is not harassment by any common definition.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)