NIDS investigation of Skinwalker Ranch, Utah

darrelljon · 8th March 2006, 05:49 AM

Hi I'm new here,
Do you think NIDS investigation of Skinwalker Ranch, Utah in 2002 could pass Randi's $1m challenge?

MRC_Hans · 8th March 2006, 06:01 AM

Welcome!

Please elaborate. This is an international forum. Lots of people have no idea what you are talking about.

Hans

Donks · 8th March 2006, 06:13 AM

There seems to be some info here.

From what I recall, UFOs are not considered aceptable for the challenge. Plus, I think a demonstration is required, not a report of a 4 year old investigation. I'll ask Jeff his opinion.

Jeff Wagg · 8th March 2006, 06:16 AM

You must perform a demonstration under controlled conditions. Can you think of a way to do that?

JamesM · 8th March 2006, 06:18 AM

Welcome to the forum, Darrelljon.

First, for those not familiar with the National Institute for Discovery Science, their website is here.

A good place to get the background on the Skinwalker Ranch story is George Knapp's articles, originally written for the Las Vegas Mercury, preserved as PDFs at the Hunt for the Skinwalker book web site.

Now, to the question as to whether the investigation qualifies for the million. In short, the answer is: no.

On a purely procedural basis, NIDS would have to come up with some protocol to test a paranormal claim. Check the FAQ for the sort of thing that would be necessary. An account of paranormal behaviour is not good enough: it would have to be repeatable under controlled conditions.

As for the specifics of the Skinwalker tale, let me prefix my comments by saying that it is one of my favourite accounts of weirdness. It is the most interesting Fortean event of the past few years by a country mile, and a classic of 'high strangeness' on par with Mothman.

That said, as it stands, that's all Skinwalker ranch is. A story. There is no evidence of any kind outside of the rumours that leaked onto the internet and elsewhere. We have no way of verifying that any of the outlandish events that are claimed to have happened really occurred. We don't even know the location of Skinwalker Ranch, except that it's somewhere in Utah. Are there even any confirmed photos? I recall that there may be one disputed image, but it didn't seem to show much of anything.

I though NIDS had pretty much stopped operating? They don't appear to even mention Skinwalker ranch on their website at all (according to Google).

A good start would be for NIDS to release the report that they supposedly compiled over their long study of the ranch. But that would only be a start. And it wouldn't merit the million. IMO, of course.

Marker · 8th March 2006, 06:30 AM

Incidentally, thanks for the link. I think the article in question needs a bit of tweaking to ensure NPOV. One to add to the watchlist.

Octothorpe · 8th March 2006, 08:09 AM

Although I guess NIDS still officially exists, everyone who worked there has quit and moved on. I doubt there's even anyone to answer the phone.

darrelljon · 8th March 2006, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by JamesM

As for the specifics of the Skinwalker tale, let me prefix my comments by saying that it is one of my favourite accounts of weirdness. It is the most interesting Fortean event of the past few years by a country mile, and a classic of 'high strangeness' on par with Mothman.

Totally agree. There's a good page about it on Wikipedia, but as I'm a new user I can't post links. I read about it in Fortean Times, but I think I'll get the book.

8th March 2006, 05:49 AM	#1
darrelljon New Blood Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2	NIDS investigation of Skinwalker Ranch, Utah Hi I'm new here, Do you think NIDS investigation of Skinwalker Ranch, Utah in 2002 could pass Randi's $1m challenge?
darrelljon New Blood Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2

8th March 2006, 06:01 AM	#2
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,602	Welcome! Please elaborate. This is an international forum. Lots of people have no idea what you are talking about. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

8th March 2006, 06:13 AM	#3
Donks vBulletin God Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,321	There seems to be some info here. From what I recall, UFOs are not considered aceptable for the challenge. Plus, I think a demonstration is required, not a report of a 4 year old investigation. I'll ask Jeff his opinion.
Donks vBulletin God Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,321

8th March 2006, 06:18 AM	#5
JamesM Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,823	Welcome to the forum, Darrelljon. First, for those not familiar with the National Institute for Discovery Science, their website is here. A good place to get the background on the Skinwalker Ranch story is George Knapp's articles, originally written for the Las Vegas Mercury, preserved as PDFs at the Hunt for the Skinwalker book web site. Now, to the question as to whether the investigation qualifies for the million. In short, the answer is: no. On a purely procedural basis, NIDS would have to come up with some protocol to test a paranormal claim. Check the FAQ for the sort of thing that would be necessary. An account of paranormal behaviour is not good enough: it would have to be repeatable under controlled conditions. As for the specifics of the Skinwalker tale, let me prefix my comments by saying that it is one of my favourite accounts of weirdness. It is the most interesting Fortean event of the past few years by a country mile, and a classic of 'high strangeness' on par with Mothman. That said, as it stands, that's all Skinwalker ranch is. A story. There is no evidence of any kind outside of the rumours that leaked onto the internet and elsewhere. We have no way of verifying that any of the outlandish events that are claimed to have happened really occurred. We don't even know the location of Skinwalker Ranch, except that it's somewhere in Utah. Are there even any confirmed photos? I recall that there may be one disputed image, but it didn't seem to show much of anything. I though NIDS had pretty much stopped operating? They don't appear to even mention Skinwalker ranch on their website at all (according to Google). A good start would be for NIDS to release the report that they supposedly compiled over their long study of the ranch. But that would only be a start. And it wouldn't merit the million. IMO, of course.
JamesM Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,823	__________________ "When we type away on discussion boards and post comments on our blogs, it feels like we’re sitting outside a pub in the evening sunshine with our attractive, cool friends – but we aren’t. That’s something we used to do before we got addicted to the internet." - Jon Ronson

8th March 2006, 06:30 AM	#6
Marker Lapidating the Pataphysical Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tuican Horn, Middlesaxan Posts: 115	Incidentally, thanks for the link. I think the article in question needs a bit of tweaking to ensure NPOV. One to add to the watchlist.
	__________________ I've just been playing against the computer. It beat me at chess but came off badly in the kick-boxing.

8th March 2006, 06:16 AM	#4
Jeff Wagg Eponymous Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,052	You must perform a demonstration under controlled conditions. Can you think of a way to do that?

8th March 2006, 08:09 AM	#7
Octothorpe Student Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 27	Although I guess NIDS still officially exists, everyone who worked there has quit and moved on. I doubt there's even anyone to answer the phone.
Octothorpe Student Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 27

8th March 2006, 10:31 AM	#8
darrelljon New Blood Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2	Originally Posted by JamesM As for the specifics of the Skinwalker tale, let me prefix my comments by saying that it is one of my favourite accounts of weirdness. It is the most interesting Fortean event of the past few years by a country mile, and a classic of 'high strangeness' on par with Mothman. Totally agree. There's a good page about it on Wikipedia, but as I'm a new user I can't post links. I read about it in Fortean Times, but I think I'll get the book.
darrelljon New Blood Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2