What is this religion called?

[pipelineaudio]

For the last few years, especially on internet forums, but increasingly on TV and radio, I am witnessing a new religion. I dont know the name of it

I sometimes hear it refered to as "Euronazi" but its proponents are as often as not other than european, and not Nazi's in the strictest sense, but do allow biggotry and faith to think for them

Sometimes I hear them called " Cause-ulties" but often their only cause is to attack someone else's cause

I also hear them refered to as " libberwhacks " but that is an unfair characterization of liberals in general, and in fact many seem VERY fringe to any liberal idea of charity

The tennets of this religion seem to be:

Blind faith action. Things are the way they are because our media representatives say so, facts be dammed

Conspiracy Theory acceptance. The whackiest conspiracy theory is certainly true, as long as it paints america in a bad light

Selective religiosity: ALL religions are good, and are equally good, except christianity. But hey, they LOVED the pope, and fell all over themselves saying so

Moral equivalency: One jew refusing to yield the right of way in traffic on the jersey turnpike is JUST AS EVIL as a palestinian blowing himself up and taking out a bunch of kids enjoying a pizza or riding a buss.

Victimhood: All woes in the world, including stubbing oones toe while running barefoot, is the fault of america or "the jooooooooooooos"

Irresponsibility: No one, except possibly republicans, "the jooooooooos", or americans in general, need accept any responsibility for any action they do. Examples include "false esteem" legislation, where failing children are passed on to the next grade, in order not to hurt their self esteem.

"equality" in the face of all reason: Gender norming, even for firefighters is another goal of this group. It is believed that when a beam falls on a victim, if it is above the weight requirement of a female firefighter, but below the weight requirement of the male firefighter, this beam will magically drop into the females weight range. Upon encountering a male, it will subsequently gain its weight back.

The main antagonist to the religion is "the joooooooos"

"the joooos" may or may not be jewish, but can include publishers, hollywood (except rosie o donnel), historians, or americans in general. "the jooos" rule all of the world, especially america, control all money, and blew up the WTC to gain sympathy for Isarael

What groovy name should this religion be called? Or does it have one already?

[Dr Adequate]

I'm curious. Can you show me one of these people?

Otherwise, I think someone's been pulling your leg.

They seem to be a strange mix of the far right (antisemitism, hating hollywood, credulous of the media, believe in conspiracy theories), with a few lefty traits thrown in, for example "gender-norming", and then some really whacky stuff which no-one believes in that I've ever met.

I've never come across such a person.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

For the last few years, especially on internet forums, but increasingly on TV and radio, I am witnessing a new religion. I dont know the name of it

First, I don't think that what you see is a "religion" in any meaningful sense of the word.

Second, I don't think that what you see exists. It looks like a caricature of several aspects of modern liberal thought as portrayed -- lied about -- by narrow-minded conservative pundits such as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Sean Hannity.

So the name I would give to it is "Straw man."

[Dr Adequate]

Originally Posted by drkitten

Second, I don't think that what you see exists. It looks like a caricature of several aspects of modern liberal thought as portrayed -- lied about -- by narrow-minded conservative pundits such as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Sean Hannity."

Even then, what's this stuff about hating Hollywood? Or Jews? Or credulous belief in the media? Or conspiracy theories? C'mon, that's not even the left seen through magical right-wing whackjob spectacles. That's the right.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Even then, what's this stuff about hating Hollywood? Or Jews? Or credulous belief in the media? Or conspiracy theories? C'mon, that's not even the left seen through magical right-wing whackjob spectacles. That's the right.

Fair 'nough.

[c4ts]

Nothing the neo-Nazis weren't already doing, as far as I can tell. The racism appears to be missing, though.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

I'm curious. Can you show me one of these people?
I've never come across such a person.

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/u.../t/006575.html

This Matts Olsson character has always led an army of the "euronazi" sort across music recording forums

The Loose change forum is full of the "isreal did it" type of thinkers and CT types overall

Oprah's forum will include the gendernorm/muslims are victims/false esteem types

but they all seem quite tied together in anti-americanism

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/u.../t/006575.html

This Matts Olsson character has always led an army of the "euronazi" sort across music recording forums

The Loose change forum is full of the "isreal did it" type of thinkers and CT types overall

Oprah's forum will include the gendernorm/muslims are victims/false esteem types

but they all seem quite tied together in anti-americanism

Um, so, in other words.... you haven't actually seen all these traits present in any single person or group.....

I'm afraid it's sounding more and more like a "straw man" to me.

[pipelineaudio]

[quote=drkitten;1533895]

Quote:

First, I don't think that what you see is a "religion" in any meaningful sense of the word.

I call it a religion as its actions and beliefs are fatih based rather than fact based. Yes organic food is cool, but there could never be enough of it to feed the entire planet for instance

Quote:

Second, I don't think that what you see exists.

Its quite prevalent, and even well represented here. The Iraq marine massacre thread seems to carry one

Quote:

It looks like a caricature of several aspects of modern liberal thought as portrayed -- lied about -- by narrow-minded conservative pundits such as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Sean Hannity.

Those are actually the antagonist of some parts of this religion, but not all, and not often enough for me to have included in the original post. "the joooos" are more readily the enemy than the fundies, but youre right, the fundies are getting up there

Quote:

So the name I would give to it is "Straw man."

interesting...

[pipelineaudio]

[quote=drkitten;1534055]

Quote:

Um, so, in other words.... you haven't actually seen all these traits present in any single person or group.....

Umm, no in other words, no I didnt say that in other words at all. MO there in the link and his followers espouse all these traits. Others seem to be louder about some parts than others but will toe the line just fine

Quote:

I'm afraid it's sounding more and more like a "straw man" to me

interesting....

[Dr Adequate]

But show me!

You seem to be claiming that there are people who are simultaneously (a) rightwing kooks (b) leftwing kooks (c) a rightwing kook's idea of a leftwing kook.

If there is some one person who has all these traits, then it should be possible to demonstrate it by quotation from that person.

Otherwise, why do you believe that such a fantastic chimera exists?

[pipelineaudio]

http://www.rense.com/

there is an apostle. Ill try and get quotes from only him for examples of all

[pipelineaudio]

Well, looks like the Loosechange forum is a perfect example of each bit of this religion

for you doubters/practitioners of it out there

[Dr Adequate]

Then I suggest that you name it Loose-Changism, rather than raving out hysterical nonsense

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Then I suggest that you name it Loose-Changism, rather than raving out hysterical nonsense

which hysterical nonsense?

[Rob Lister]

It wasn't hysterical, nor was it nonsense.

It was right.on.target

It comes complete with priests and sheep.

Practically a confession booth to boot

[Dr Adequate]

Originally Posted by Rob Lister

It wasn't hysterical, nor was it nonsense.

It was right.on.target

It comes complete with priests and sheep.

Practically a confession booth to boot

???

------------------------

One of the characteristics of this "religion" is excessive credulity towards the media.

I should have said that the CTs display excessive incredulity towards the media.

Because THEY control your television, you know.

[ChaoticLimbs]

Actually I work with a man who believes in ALL of that stuff. I wouldn't call him "liberal" and he SURE hates all things related to Republicans. And Jews, and Christians, and....well, lets just call him a professional malcontent. It's not really left or right, whatever it is, he's against it!
The conspiracy theories he comes up with are just ludicrous!

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Yes organic food is cool, but there could never be enough of it to feed the entire planet for instance

What an odd thing to say. Do you know of anyone on the planet who survives on inorganic food?

I might be reading too much between the lines, but it sounds like you are attempting to paint all those who dislike the USA with a full spectrum 'whack job' brush.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by Oolon Colluphid

What an odd thing to say. Do you know of anyone on the planet who survives on inorganic food?

Please, we all know what 'organic' means in this context.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by Oolon Colluphid

I might be reading too much between the lines, .

Yes , very much so

Quote:

but it sounds like you are attempting to paint all those who dislike the USA with a full spectrum 'whack job' brush

It would be much more accurate to use Israel as the country here not the USA, but I dont think it would matter much, if all of a suden a new target was found, as long as it is an irrational and disingenous dislike

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally Posted by JamesM

Please, we all know what 'organic' means in this context.

My mistake, there's no such thing as inorganic food. Ergo, qualifying food as 'organic' is redundant.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

It would be much more accurate to use Israel as the country here not the USA, but I dont think it would matter much, if all of a suden a new target was found, as long as it is an irrational and disingenous dislike

Aha. And who decides which dislikes are, in fact, irrational and disingenuous?

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by Oolon Colluphid

Aha. And who decides which dislikes are, in fact, irrational and disingenuous?

Logic I guess

Irrational-as in hating the country for reasons which are claimed without evidence

Disingenous - as in badmouthing the country to friends while holding a hand out to the country for national welfare when noones looking

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by Oolon Colluphid

My mistake, there's no such thing as inorganic food. Ergo, qualifying food as 'organic' is redundant.

Again, we all know what is meant by 'organic' in the context of food. It is not the usage employed by chemists.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

For the last few years, especially on internet forums, but increasingly on TV and radio, I am witnessing a new religion. I dont know the name of it

I sometimes hear it refered to as "Euronazi" but its proponents are as often as not other than european, and not Nazi's in the strictest sense, but do allow biggotry and faith to think for them

Sometimes I hear them called " Cause-ulties" but often their only cause is to attack someone else's cause

I also hear them refered to as " libberwhacks " but that is an unfair characterization of liberals in general, and in fact many seem VERY fringe to any liberal idea of charity

The tennets of this religion seem to be:

Blind faith action. Things are the way they are because our media representatives say so, facts be dammed

Conspiracy Theory acceptance. The whackiest conspiracy theory is certainly true, as long as it paints america in a bad light

Selective religiosity: ALL religions are good, and are equally good, except christianity. But hey, they LOVED the pope, and fell all over themselves saying so

Moral equivalency: One jew refusing to yield the right of way in traffic on the jersey turnpike is JUST AS EVIL as a palestinian blowing himself up and taking out a bunch of kids enjoying a pizza or riding a buss.

Victimhood: All woes in the world, including stubbing oones toe while running barefoot, is the fault of america or "the jooooooooooooos"

Irresponsibility: No one, except possibly republicans, "the jooooooooos", or americans in general, need accept any responsibility for any action they do. Examples include "false esteem" legislation, where failing children are passed on to the next grade, in order not to hurt their self esteem.

"equality" in the face of all reason: Gender norming, even for firefighters is another goal of this group. It is believed that when a beam falls on a victim, if it is above the weight requirement of a female firefighter, but below the weight requirement of the male firefighter, this beam will magically drop into the females weight range. Upon encountering a male, it will subsequently gain its weight back.

The main antagonist to the religion is "the joooooooos"

"the joooos" may or may not be jewish, but can include publishers, hollywood (except rosie o donnel), historians, or americans in general. "the jooos" rule all of the world, especially america, control all money, and blew up the WTC to gain sympathy for Isarael

What groovy name should this religion be called? Or does it have one already?

What ever it is, this guy should be in charge:

[pipelineaudio]

Ok it seems many practitioners of this religion take offense at being called "euronazis", but in the abscence of a better name Im kinda stuck, so I propose this

Find America and Isreal Really Yucky or FAIRY

if anyone has a better one lemme know

[andyandy]

well....sounds like the anti-american secular liberalism that's pretty rife throughout Europe.....

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

blind faith; hmmm as long as its anti american media coverage....

conspiracy theory; hmmm not really

Selective religiosity: CHECK

Moral equivalency: CHECK

Victimhood: CHECK

Irresponsibility: CHECK

"equality" in the face of all reason: umm kinda...

The main antagonist to the religion is "the joooooooos" CHECK

"the joooos" may or may not be jewish, but can include publishers, hollywood (except rosie o donnel), historians, or americans in general. "the jooos" rule all of the world, especially america, control all money, and blew up the WTC to gain sympathy for Isarael...umm kinda CHECK - but without the WTC conspiracy......

[andyandy]

good name.....

hmmm......

secular liberal anti-american group......or SLAG for short.....

people who prostitute themselves to the US....but try to regain their dignity by bitching once the US's back's turned....

or i may be trying to stretch an analogy too far lol

[pipelineaudio]

AWESOME!!!!

Slag is perfect!

[andyandy]

thank you.....


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[pipelineaudio]

Hopefully we can find some of their sacred texts somewhere

[andyandy]

this is an edited article from www.theamericanenterprise.org

I think it expresses very eloquently the reasons for (and contradictions of) anti-americanism in europe.....

I'm a Guardian-reading UK liberal myself with some serious reservations about US foreign policy....but i find the anti-americanism that many European liberals slip into pretty embarrassing....it's pretty lazy intellectually.....IMO

http://www.theamericanenterprise.org...cle_detail.asp

Europe's Anti-American Obsession
By Jean-Francois Revel


What picture of American society is likely to be imprinted on the consciousness of average Europeans? Given what they read or hear every day from intellectuals and politicians, they can hardly have any choice in the unpleasant particulars, especially if they happen to be French. The picture repeatedly sketched for them is as follows:

...snip...

Edited by Darat:

Edited for Breach of Rule 4.

The fundamental role of anti-Americanism in Europe in general, and particularly among those on the Left, is to absolve themselves of their own moral failings and intellectual errors by heaping them onto the monster scapegoat, the United States of America.

[andyandy]

oops.....didnt realise about rule 4 lol

anyway - its a fantastic article....guess u'll just have to click on it yourselves.....

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by andyandy

anyway - its a fantastic article....guess u'll just have to click on it yourselves.....

Don't have time to read it right now, but were you aware that Revel died just last week? An appraisal of his work here.

Welcome to the forum!

[Dr Adequate]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Ok it seems many practitioners of this religion take offense at being called "euronazis"...

* sigh *

As you know what many of these people think, perhaps you could also tell us who they are?

[Hutch]

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

* sigh *

As you know what many of these people think, perhaps you could also tell us who they are?

Nah, doc, "we know who they are, in fact I have in my hand a list of 56 known EuroNazis..."

New Name--pipeline paranoidism.

[epepke]

Originally Posted by andyandy

this is an edited article from www.theamericanenterprise.org

I think it expresses very eloquently the reasons for (and contradictions of) anti-americanism in europe.....

I'm a Guardian-reading UK liberal myself with some serious reservations about US foreign policy....but i find the anti-americanism that many European liberals slip into pretty embarrassing....it's pretty lazy intellectually.....IMO

http://www.theamericanenterprise.org...cle_detail.asp

Thanks for linking to that. I could quibble with him about a few points, but not to many. What I like about it is that it captures a time in history, before the invasion of Iraq (and even before the action in Afghanistan) that nowadays has been whitewashed left, right, and center (but mostly left).

What people don't remember (or don't want others to remember) is that the hostility restarted and escalated almost immediately after 9/11. I went to New York to volunteer a couple of weeks after 9/11, and that crap got me so down that I was delighted to see an editorial in The Times, which I'd always thought of as pretty right-wing.

One good point he brought up was the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" attitude that the relentless hostility engenders.

Another was about the former Yugoslavia, though he didn't tell the whole story. I distinctly remember television footage of camp-emaciated people behind a hurricane fence a full two years before the US-led NATO action. If anythng, Clinton trusted too much in Europe before taking matters into his own hands. But Europe basically couldn't be arsed, though by the time of Srebrenica, they had advanced to the stage of being half-arsed.

[Dr Adequate]

Well, I'm slightly disappointed.

Over the course of more than one thread, I have given pipelineaudio all the rope that anyone could wish for. I have watched him hitch one end to a tree, tie the other end in a noose, stick his silly head through it, and grin.

And now that he has only one final office to perform for himself, he doesn't have enough courage to kick the mule.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

I'm curious. Can you show me one of these people?

Otherwise, I think someone's been pulling your leg.

They seem to be a strange mix of the far right (antisemitism, hating hollywood, credulous of the media, believe in conspiracy theories), with a few lefty traits thrown in, for example "gender-norming", and then some really whacky stuff which no-one believes in that I've ever met.

I've never come across such a person.

I believe his name is Straw Man.