The Oklahoma City Bombing Coverup

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 11:36 AM

University of Wisconson Army Math Building

Quote:

Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970
Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage,
no structural damage whatsoever, though truck
bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column!

But miraculously, it is capable of this.

General Ben Partin, Ex Head of Air Force Weapons Development

Quote:

"When I first saw the pictures of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal Building in Oklahoma City my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementing demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete column bases."

Intersting take on all this:

http://www.philipdru.com/okc_stream.html

Bronze Dog · 12th April 2006, 11:41 AM

At least this looks like it's one step up from the pixel pareidolia.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 11:46 AM

As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info...

Nyarlathotep · 12th April 2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

"When I first saw the pictures of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal Building in Oklahoma City my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementing demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete column bases."

Cuz we all know that looking at a picture gives one a far better idea of what happened than actually being there. So his analysis of the situtation trumps that of the investigators who were actually there.

How could I be so blind?

JPK · 12th April 2006, 11:48 AM

Good morning conspiracybeliever.

Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time?
JPK

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

Cuz we all know that looking at a picture gives one a far better idea of what happened than actually being there. So his analysis of the situtation trumps that of the investigators who were actually there.

How could I be so blind?

I don't know, honestly...lol

Quote:

Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970
Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage,
no structural damage whatsoever, though truck
bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column!

Bronze Dog · 12th April 2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info...

The usual misinterpretaton. I meant that this looks like this would take a bit more work to shoot down than your earlier instance of screaming bloody murder at every white pixel that wasn't where it should have been.

Then again, I know more about digital artifacts than I do about measuring explosive forces.

Nyarlathotep · 12th April 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

I don't know, honestly...lol

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

You're one liners don't negate the facts you fail to even address.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

screaming bloody murder at every white pixel that wasn't where it should have been.

Your pixel conspiracy is far from adequate.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970
Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage,
no structural damage whatsoever, though truck
bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column!

Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC?

Bronze Dog · 12th April 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

Your pixel conspiracy is far from adequate.

I doubt that. Of course, even if it did fall short, that would mean nothing: You still haven't proven that those whatevers are explosions. Just because a UFO isn't a weather balloon doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th April 2006, 11:59 AM

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sives-anfo.htm

Quote:

By one estimate, the bomb used to attack the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 consisted of an ANFO explosive main charge of approximately 4,000 pounds, based on an estimate of the Velocities of Detonation [VOD] of approximately 13,000 fps. Other estimates claim that the 1995 explosion that collapsed portions of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City contained 4,800 pounds of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil. Later estimates suggested that the bomb had in excess of 6,200 pounds of various energetic materials, including explosives other than ANFO, equivalent to 5,000 pounds of TNT. In the Salameh World Trade Center bombing case resulting from the bombing of the World Trade Center (WTC) on February 26, 1993, FBI Explosives Unit examiner David Williams opined that the main explosive used in the bombing consisted of 1,200 pounds of urea nitrate explosive. The FBI chemists specializing in the examination of explosive residue, however, did not find any residue identifying the explosive at the World Trade Center.

Bronze Dog · 12th April 2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC?

Way to straw man!

kookbreaker · 12th April 2006, 12:02 PM

Roxdog is dodging again:

http://www.leemark.com/featuredconte.../sterling.html

Quote:

a van loaded with six barrels of explosives blew up just outside the East Wing of Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin campus in Madison.

That's a van. Not a U-haul. And only six barrels of the stuff. By comparison, the OK City bomb was 5000 lbs.

Other points is that the bomb went off near the loading section (not exactly the most weakest section of the building) and was exploded near the edge of the building. Add to that is that the building was a brick structure, wheras the Murrah building had large glass windows. Even so, it seems that the building required supports to keep it from collapsing, note the pictures at this link:

http://www.madison.com/library/LEE/sterlinghall.html

The Wisconsin was also set by radicals with little clue. Given the fact that it ended the sizeable anti-war protests on the campus cold, it almost seems to be more likely to be the result of conspiracy than OK City.

Apples to Oranges. With a CT twist on top.

But hey. I'm just guessing with a bit logic. Let's hear all the Structural Engineers, Demolition Experts, and other relevant fields who've studied the cases for the past 10-30years and see how much they agree with the CT. Surely in all this time many of them have spoken out on this topic, right?

Manny · 12th April 2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

General Ben Partin, Ex Head of Air Force Weapons Development

Interesting. Do you agree with General Partin that UAL flight 93 was shot down, or with the Loosers that there was no civilian plane crashed into Shanksville, PA. If you disagree with the General there, on what basis to you agree with him here?

Huntster · 12th April 2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by JPK

....Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time?....

Probably very few, if any.

But it would be kinda nice if we could do the right thing afterwards (instead of being misdirected, or given half the story), wouldn't it?

Nyarlathotep · 12th April 2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC?

It requires no explanation from us as none of us are making a claim. BUt what the hey. Different explosions under different circumstances on differnet buildings will cause different effects.

Now perhaps you would care to explain what evidence you have that the explosion at the Alfred P Murrah building should have had the same effect as the one in your photo.

LTC8K6 · 12th April 2006, 12:08 PM

The van was not parked anywhere near that arrow though.

The bomb used AN & jet fuel.

Sterling Hall was devastated and 19 other buildings were damaged to varying degrees.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 12:11 PM

So the General that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart.

Listen to the link. Their were bombs in the Alfred P Murrah building.

LTC8K6 · 12th April 2006, 12:11 PM

Support the "8 ft from a column" bit please.

JPK · 12th April 2006, 12:12 PM

Good afternoon Huntster.

Originally Posted by Huntster

Probably very few, if any.

So no more attacks in the future? Great news. I'm glad the Big Bad Government has gotten that out of the way. No more worries.

Originally Posted by Huntster

But it would be kinda nice if we could do the right thing afterwards (instead of being misdirected, or given half the story), wouldn't it?

Who is this "we" that you speak of?
JPK

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The van was not parked anywhere near that arrow though.

The bomb used AN & jet fuel.

Sterling Hall was devastated and 19 other buildings were damaged to varying degrees.

So how many times more powerful is the air blast from a AN & nitromethane bomb to a AN & diesal fuel bomb?

Nyarlathotep · 12th April 2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

So the Genral that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart.

Who said that, excepting you automatic straw man generator? I frankly am not familiar with the guy. But I don't care WHO you are, a first impression from a picture is no substitute for actual examination of the wreckage. WHy does his examination from a picture trump the examination of the investigators who were there? Beyond the obvious fact that his words (and we don't even know wha the context of them was) favor your conspiracy theory?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th April 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

So how many times more powerful is the air blast from a AN & nitromethane bomb to a AN & diesal fuel bomb?

If you had bothered reading the link I provided, you would know that the VOD for an ANFO explosion is 13,000-15,000 fps, and, as is in the section I quoted, the Oklahoma bombing contained additional energetic materials besides the ANFO.

Kochanski · 12th April 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info...

What info? I see pictures with quotes. Hardly hypothesis there for us to analyse and respond to.

Provide a complete and cogent hypothesis with as much data as you have, then you can expect an answer. Otherwise go find some friends to agree with you and stop bothering us with your picture books.

At least Mas & Co. provide us with fun pics, yours are just meaningless.

LTC8K6 · 12th April 2006, 12:24 PM

Jet fuel is kerosene, btw.

Newspaper accounts have it as 1700 pounds, 4 - 55 gallon drums.

Mojo · 12th April 2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

Intelligent conspirators, these. At the WTC, where, we are told, the building should have fallen outwards, they set up the buildings so as to collapse in on themselves as in a controlled demolition, but in Oklahoma, where the building should have been "blown in", they set it up so that it would look as if it had been "blown out".

Can't they get anything right?

J. Arthur Hastur · 12th April 2006, 12:30 PM

Some of that data is incorrect, Timothy McVeigh's Ryder Truck (according to the Crime Library) carried a 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb, not 2,000LB. As we all hopefully know, doubling the amount of explosive increases exponentially the size of the blast. A 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb would have roughly 8x the explosive power of the 2,000LB blast.

I also found a site on the University of Wisconsin bombing, the van carrying the 2,000lb was not flush with the building,but parked in a delivery are. The picture that has been providecis the rebuilt portion of the University building, damaged bricks that were structurally sound were left in place.the damage to the building was mainly from concussion and fire.

Nyarlathotep · 12th April 2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Intelligent conspirators, these. At the WTC, where, we are told, the building should have fallen outwards, they set up the buildings so as to collapse in on themselves as in a controlled demolition, but in Oklahoma, where the building should have been "blown in", they set it up so that it would look as if it had been "blown out".

Can't they get anything right?

The Globalists are apparently the worlds cleverest morons.

LTC8K6 · 12th April 2006, 12:33 PM

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg

It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column".

Huntster · 12th April 2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by JPK

Good afternoon Huntster....

Howdy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Probably very few, if any.

So no more attacks in the future? Great news. I'm glad the Big Bad Government has gotten that out of the way. No more worries.

I'm confused. Maybe I misunderstood your post:

Quote:

....Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time?....

I took that to ask how we would know about sabotaged buildings ahead of time in order to do something about it before they blew.

I doubt that's often possible, but I think it would be good for us (as a society of free voters, not to mention the jury in a subsequent trial of the accused) to be given accurate and truthful information on what happened.

I'm not sure that occurred after the Oklahoma City attack.

LTC8K6 · 12th April 2006, 12:34 PM

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/muse...ves/001636.asp

Manny · 12th April 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever

So the General that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart.

Well, he believes the Murrah building was blown up by leftists to try to get America mad at the militias. He believes that TWA 800 was shot down by missiles, that someone (the government, the Branch Davidians themselves -- I'm not clear) placed a large demolitions charge in the Waco compound and that flight 93 was also shot down by missiles. He may be correct about all of these things, but yeah, I'd say that puts him into conspiracy theorist neighborhood.

But that's not relevant -- we address facts here, not people. I just found it interesting that he was being cited by someone who apparently doesn't believe that flight 93 was shot down. I was just curious as to how you weighed his evidence to come to agree with him about Oklahoma City but not about Shanksville, is all.

J. Arthur Hastur · 12th April 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg

It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column".

Yes, according to the police the van was parked near a loading area roughly 20ft from the building.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th April 2006, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg

It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column".

Am I the only one who had this mental dialogue upon viewing that pic?

"Gee Bob, there ain't much of this here thing left."
"Ayup."

Mojo · 12th April 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg

It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column".

That photo looks to me as if they've gathered together all the bits of the van etc. that they could find and put them together. It doesn't necessarily show where the van was when it blew up.

Hagrok · 12th April 2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by manny

Well, he believes the Murrah building was blown up by leftists to try to get America mad at the militias. He believes that TWA 800 was shot down by missiles, that someone (the government, the Branch Davidians themselves -- I'm not clear) placed a large demolitions charge in the Waco compound and that flight 93 was also shot down by missiles. He may be correct about all of these things, but yeah, I'd say that puts him into conspiracy theorist neighborhood.

But that's not relevant -- we address facts here, not people. I just found it interesting that he was being cited by someone who apparently doesn't believe that flight 93 was shot down. I was just curious as to how you weighed his evidence to come to agree with him about Oklahoma City but not about Shanksville, is all.

A vast number of highly placed Air Force people are... how can I say this politely... morons.

I have no idea how our military is as powerful as it is, having worked for the Air Force for a number of years.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by manny

But that's not relevant -- we address facts here, not people.

That is preposterous. Most of you guys will actually go and look for mostly irrelevent dirt on someone before you even address their assertions. You got a few badasses here, I will definitely give you that. Chipmunk comes to mind. But to say "oh, we address facts here, not people" is laughable at best.

And considering there were people yelling all this stuff at Clinton's Justice Department within days of the bombing with him ignoring it and blaming it on his "vast right wing conspiracy", I'd say there might be something to Partin's assessment.

conspiracybeliever · 12th April 2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hagrok

A vast number of highly placed Air Force people are... how can I say this politely... morons.

I have no idea how our military is as powerful as it is, having worked for the Air Force for a number of years.

Originally Posted by manny

we address facts here, not people.

azazal · 12th April 2006, 12:58 PM

What I find funny, I did a quick google on Gen. Partin and I'm finding all these CT web sites telling me about his record, but I'm not finding a copy of his record,assignments, etc.

12th April 2006, 11:36 AM	#1
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	The Oklahoma City Bombing Coverup University of Wisconson Army Math Building Quote: Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970 Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage, no structural damage whatsoever, though truck bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column! But miraculously, it is capable of this. General Ben Partin, Ex Head of Air Force Weapons Development Quote: "When I first saw the pictures of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal Building in Oklahoma City my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementing demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete column bases." Intersting take on all this: http://www.philipdru.com/okc_stream.html

12th April 2006, 11:41 AM	#2
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	At least this looks like it's one step up from the pixel pareidolia.
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

12th April 2006, 11:48 AM	#5
JPK Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,162	Good morning conspiracybeliever. Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time? JPK
JPK Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,162	__________________ "I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... A belief's a dangerous thing. People die for it. People kill for it." Rufus, the 13th apostle, Dogma "You can't prove air." Sylvia Browne www.StopSylvia.com John Kardel

12th April 2006, 11:52 AM	#7
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info... The usual misinterpretaton. I meant that this looks like this would take a bit more work to shoot down than your earlier instance of screaming bloody murder at every white pixel that wasn't where it should have been. Then again, I know more about digital artifacts than I do about measuring explosive forces.
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

12th April 2006, 11:59 AM	#11
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever Your pixel conspiracy is far from adequate. I doubt that. Of course, even if it did fall short, that would mean nothing: You still haven't proven that those whatevers are explosions. Just because a UFO isn't a weather balloon doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

12th April 2006, 11:46 AM	#3
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info...

12th April 2006, 11:47 AM	#4
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Quote: "When I first saw the pictures of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal Building in Oklahoma City my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementing demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete column bases." Cuz we all know that looking at a picture gives one a far better idea of what happened than actually being there. So his analysis of the situtation trumps that of the investigators who were actually there. How could I be so blind?

12th April 2006, 11:51 AM	#6
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep Cuz we all know that looking at a picture gives one a far better idea of what happened than actually being there. So his analysis of the situtation trumps that of the investigators who were actually there. How could I be so blind? I don't know, honestly...lol Quote: Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970 Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage, no structural damage whatsoever, though truck bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column!

12th April 2006, 11:54 AM	#8
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever I don't know, honestly...lol Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever You're one liners don't negate the facts you fail to even address.

12th April 2006, 11:55 AM	#9
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	Quote: screaming bloody murder at every white pixel that wasn't where it should have been. Your pixel conspiracy is far from adequate.

12th April 2006, 11:58 AM	#10
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	Quote: Bombed with 2,000 lb ANFO bomb in 1970 Discolored bricks show repaired area of damage, no structural damage whatsoever, though truck bomb was against wall only 8 ft from column! Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC?

12th April 2006, 11:59 AM	#12
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sives-anfo.htm Quote: By one estimate, the bomb used to attack the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 consisted of an ANFO explosive main charge of approximately 4,000 pounds, based on an estimate of the Velocities of Detonation [VOD] of approximately 13,000 fps. Other estimates claim that the 1995 explosion that collapsed portions of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City contained 4,800 pounds of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil. Later estimates suggested that the bomb had in excess of 6,200 pounds of various energetic materials, including explosives other than ANFO, equivalent to 5,000 pounds of TNT. In the Salameh World Trade Center bombing case resulting from the bombing of the World Trade Center (WTC) on February 26, 1993, FBI Explosives Unit examiner David Williams opined that the main explosive used in the bombing consisted of 1,200 pounds of urea nitrate explosive. The FBI chemists specializing in the examination of explosive residue, however, did not find any residue identifying the explosive at the World Trade Center.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th April 2006, 12:00 PM	#13
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC? Way to straw man!
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

12th April 2006, 12:02 PM	#14
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Roxdog is dodging again: http://www.leemark.com/featuredconte.../sterling.html Quote: a van loaded with six barrels of explosives blew up just outside the East Wing of Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin campus in Madison. That's a van. Not a U-haul. And only six barrels of the stuff. By comparison, the OK City bomb was 5000 lbs. Other points is that the bomb went off near the loading section (not exactly the most weakest section of the building) and was exploded near the edge of the building. Add to that is that the building was a brick structure, wheras the Murrah building had large glass windows. Even so, it seems that the building required supports to keep it from collapsing, note the pictures at this link: http://www.madison.com/library/LEE/sterlinghall.html The Wisconsin was also set by radicals with little clue. Given the fact that it ended the sizeable anti-war protests on the campus cold, it almost seems to be more likely to be the result of conspiracy than OK City. Apples to Oranges. With a CT twist on top. But hey. I'm just guessing with a bit logic. Let's hear all the Structural Engineers, Demolition Experts, and other relevant fields who've studied the cases for the past 10-30years and see how much they agree with the CT. Surely in all this time many of them have spoken out on this topic, right?
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

12th April 2006, 12:02 PM	#15
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever General Ben Partin, Ex Head of Air Force Weapons Development Interesting. Do you agree with General Partin that UAL flight 93 was shot down, or with the Loosers that there was no civilian plane crashed into Shanksville, PA. If you disagree with the General there, on what basis to you agree with him here?
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295

12th April 2006, 12:03 PM	#16
Huntster Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alaska Posts: 6,798	Originally Posted by JPK ....Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time?.... Probably very few, if any. But it would be kinda nice if we could do the right thing afterwards (instead of being misdirected, or given half the story), wouldn't it?

12th April 2006, 12:04 PM	#17
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever Any thoughts? Maybe the sun caused the damage to the columns at OKC? It requires no explanation from us as none of us are making a claim. BUt what the hey. Different explosions under different circumstances on differnet buildings will cause different effects. Now perhaps you would care to explain what evidence you have that the explosion at the Alfred P Murrah building should have had the same effect as the one in your photo.

12th April 2006, 12:08 PM	#18
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,661	The van was not parked anywhere near that arrow though. The bomb used AN & jet fuel. Sterling Hall was devastated and 19 other buildings were damaged to varying degrees.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

12th April 2006, 12:11 PM	#19
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	So the General that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart. Listen to the link. Their were bombs in the Alfred P Murrah building.

12th April 2006, 12:12 PM	#21
JPK Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,162	Good afternoon Huntster. Originally Posted by Huntster Probably very few, if any. So no more attacks in the future? Great news. I'm glad the Big Bad Government has gotten that out of the way. No more worries. Originally Posted by Huntster But it would be kinda nice if we could do the right thing afterwards (instead of being misdirected, or given half the story), wouldn't it? Who is this "we" that you speak of? JPK
JPK Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,162	__________________ "I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... A belief's a dangerous thing. People die for it. People kill for it." Rufus, the 13th apostle, Dogma "You can't prove air." Sylvia Browne www.StopSylvia.com John Kardel

12th April 2006, 12:14 PM	#22
conspiracybeliever Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 109	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 The van was not parked anywhere near that arrow though. The bomb used AN & jet fuel. Sterling Hall was devastated and 19 other buildings were damaged to varying degrees. So how many times more powerful is the air blast from a AN & nitromethane bomb to a AN & diesal fuel bomb?

12th April 2006, 12:15 PM	#23
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever So the Genral that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart. Who said that, excepting you automatic straw man generator? I frankly am not familiar with the guy. But I don't care WHO you are, a first impression from a picture is no substitute for actual examination of the wreckage. WHy does his examination from a picture trump the examination of the investigators who were there? Beyond the obvious fact that his words (and we don't even know wha the context of them was) favor your conspiracy theory?

12th April 2006, 12:23 PM	#24
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever So how many times more powerful is the air blast from a AN & nitromethane bomb to a AN & diesal fuel bomb? If you had bothered reading the link I provided, you would know that the VOD for an ANFO explosion is 13,000-15,000 fps, and, as is in the section I quoted, the Oklahoma bombing contained additional energetic materials besides the ANFO.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th April 2006, 12:23 PM	#25
Kochanski Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anonymous Unimportant Place (not a secret Scorpion training facility for Shosuro ninjas) Posts: 2,662	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever As usual a one-liner instead of addressing the info... What info? I see pictures with quotes. Hardly hypothesis there for us to analyse and respond to. Provide a complete and cogent hypothesis with as much data as you have, then you can expect an answer. Otherwise go find some friends to agree with you and stop bothering us with your picture books. At least Mas & Co. provide us with fun pics, yours are just meaningless.
	__________________ The faith of a skeptic is always in doubt Ninja weasel courtesy of http://www.cheeseweasel.net I-con 31 - March 30 - April, 1, 2012 - There is no place like home - Stony Brook http://www.iconsf.org/

12th April 2006, 12:24 PM	#26
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,661	Jet fuel is kerosene, btw. Newspaper accounts have it as 1700 pounds, 4 - 55 gallon drums.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

12th April 2006, 12:29 PM	#27
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,092	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever Intelligent conspirators, these. At the WTC, where, we are told, the building should have fallen outwards, they set up the buildings so as to collapse in on themselves as in a controlled demolition, but in Oklahoma, where the building should have been "blown in", they set it up so that it would look as if it had been "blown out". Can't they get anything right?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th April 2006, 12:30 PM	#28
J. Arthur Hastur Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 495	Some of that data is incorrect, Timothy McVeigh's Ryder Truck (according to the Crime Library) carried a 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb, not 2,000LB. As we all hopefully know, doubling the amount of explosive increases exponentially the size of the blast. A 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb would have roughly 8x the explosive power of the 2,000LB blast. I also found a site on the University of Wisconsin bombing, the van carrying the 2,000lb was not flush with the building,but parked in a delivery are. The picture that has been providecis the rebuilt portion of the University building, damaged bricks that were structurally sound were left in place.the damage to the building was mainly from concussion and fire.
	Last edited by J. Arthur Hastur; 12th April 2006 at 12:34 PM.

12th April 2006, 12:31 PM	#29
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Originally Posted by Mojo Intelligent conspirators, these. At the WTC, where, we are told, the building should have fallen outwards, they set up the buildings so as to collapse in on themselves as in a controlled demolition, but in Oklahoma, where the building should have been "blown in", they set it up so that it would look as if it had been "blown out". Can't they get anything right? The Globalists are apparently the worlds cleverest morons.

12th April 2006, 12:33 PM	#30
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,661	http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column".
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

12th April 2006, 12:33 PM	#31
Huntster Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alaska Posts: 6,798	Originally Posted by JPK Good afternoon Huntster.... Howdy! Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Huntster : Probably very few, if any. So no more attacks in the future? Great news. I'm glad the Big Bad Government has gotten that out of the way. No more worries. I'm confused. Maybe I misunderstood your post: Quote: ....Since you seem to believe that you are on to something, can you kindly tell us what other buildings are wired to blow so we can do something about it ahead of time?.... I took that to ask how we would know about sabotaged buildings ahead of time in order to do something about it before they blew. I doubt that's often possible, but I think it would be good for us (as a society of free voters, not to mention the jury in a subsequent trial of the accused) to be given accurate and truthful information on what happened. I'm not sure that occurred after the Oklahoma City attack.

12th April 2006, 12:34 PM	#32
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,661	http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/muse...ves/001636.asp
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

12th April 2006, 12:37 PM	#33
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Originally Posted by conspiracybeliever So the General that was Head of Air Force Weapons Development is a conspiracy theorist? Good to know. You guys are so smart. Well, he believes the Murrah building was blown up by leftists to try to get America mad at the militias. He believes that TWA 800 was shot down by missiles, that someone (the government, the Branch Davidians themselves -- I'm not clear) placed a large demolitions charge in the Waco compound and that flight 93 was also shot down by missiles. He may be correct about all of these things, but yeah, I'd say that puts him into conspiracy theorist neighborhood. But that's not relevant -- we address facts here, not people. I just found it interesting that he was being cited by someone who apparently doesn't believe that flight 93 was shot down. I was just curious as to how you weighed his evidence to come to agree with him about Oklahoma City but not about Shanksville, is all.
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295

12th April 2006, 12:37 PM	#34
J. Arthur Hastur Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 495	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column". Yes, according to the police the van was parked near a loading area roughly 20ft from the building.

12th April 2006, 12:39 PM	#35
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column". Am I the only one who had this mental dialogue upon viewing that pic? "Gee Bob, there ain't much of this here thing left." "Ayup."
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th April 2006, 12:49 PM	#36
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,092	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/w...99004526-l.jpg It looks like the van was considerably further away than "8ft from a column". That photo looks to me as if they've gathered together all the bits of the van etc. that they could find and put them together. It doesn't necessarily show where the van was when it blew up.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky