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Old 20th April 2006, 05:46 AM   #1
LTC8K6
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P & T responsible for Sonoma Bigfoot video?

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/sononomafake/

Quote:
A teaser digital preview for their forthcoming "cryptozoology" episode on Showtime is broadcasting that they faked the "Sonoma video."
If so, the BFRO will look silly, even though it seems they have removed references to the video from their site, Google's cache still has their comments.

Quote:
Various people in the BFRO have seen sasquatches in the field and know what they look like. This looks like a real sasquatch.

We've seen plenty of hoaxed footage over the years -- footage of people in costumes (here's a recent example of hoaxed footage).

We don't think the figure in the Sonoma footage is a man in a costume. We would not be able to duplicate the anatomy of this figure, and we doubt anyone else can either.

The average person will look at this footage and dismiss it as a man in a dark costume who is pumping his arms in an exaggerated manner.

We see a skeletal anatomy that is not consistent with a human. For various reasons, the Sonoma figure would have to be a fairly simple costume. Yet a simple costume doesn't change the limb ratios of a human, only its surface appearance.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1
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Old 20th April 2006, 06:41 AM   #2
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*sigh* Man, I used to think the BFRO was the monkey's uncle (pun intended). Now there having no trouble at all making themselves look silly, are they.
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Old 20th April 2006, 07:07 AM   #3
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Hey, the second segment ("forgotten footage") somehow always reminded me of Teller... Its proof of my paranormal powers!

I want my one million dollars.

Its true
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Old 20th April 2006, 07:41 AM   #4
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Happy Birthday Correa! Any birthday wishes? Mine is for one crystal clear, with close-ups, non-shaky, non-blurry, doing something ruling out a man in suit, video of bigfoot. But, my B-Day's not too far away and I ain't gettin' my hopes up. (edited for typing like a git.)

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Old 20th April 2006, 07:52 AM   #5
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Thanks!

Wishes? Uhm... 1 million dollars. I think I deserve it.
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Old 20th April 2006, 08:01 AM   #6
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Million dollars? Feh...that's it? Take my BF video, pow, there's your million!
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Old 20th April 2006, 08:46 AM   #7
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Yep, I just saw Penn & Teller's video confession. They shot the video and made up the background story.

So, here we have another case of a bigfoot suit being good enough to fool people.
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Old 20th April 2006, 08:53 AM   #8
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http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/episodes.do
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Old 20th April 2006, 08:58 AM   #9
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That's just ... not... possible. No one can make a convincing fake bigfoot suit. Didn't you see that BBC documentary? That's the best the hoaxers can do. Penn and Teller are lying. That's a real bigfoot. It has to be.

Next you'll be telling me that the Easter Bunny didn't really leave me that basket of candy.
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Old 20th April 2006, 09:46 AM   #10
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Never mind. I predict some footers will never admit they've been fooled. When my prophecy is fullfilled, JREF must send the 1 million dollars to my bank account ASAP.
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Old 20th April 2006, 09:53 AM   #11
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Happy B, Correa.

Freakin' amazing the tolerance you have for the BF threads I've seen you in.

P&T really have guts. That's pretty much a prerequisite for being a skeptic, though.
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Old 20th April 2006, 09:59 AM   #12
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I'VE NEVER BEEEN FOOOOLED!!
Seriously though, anyone who would stand behind the....what is it this week?...oh yes, Sonoma video and submit it as evidence is just sad. Really sad. I thought the Memorial Day video, on the other hand...oh nevermind.
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Old 20th April 2006, 10:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yep, I just saw Penn & Teller's video confession. They shot the video and made up the background story.

So, here we have another case of a bigfoot suit being good enough to fool people.
And what is Penn & Teller's evidence that they shot the video?
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Old 20th April 2006, 10:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Freakin' amazing the tolerance you have for the BF threads I've seen you in.
Admirable is what I'd call that. I remember reading a post over at the BFF a while back by LAL commenting on Correa as being a tough critic to argue and asking for help to debate with him.
Quote:
P&T really have guts. That's pretty much a prerequisite for being a skeptic, though.
*cough* Just kidding, but it did make me think if that's always the case.

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Old 20th April 2006, 10:29 AM   #15
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But are P and T responsible for this footage?
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Old 20th April 2006, 10:34 AM   #16
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hehehehe
Flattery as a b/d gift!
Cool!
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Old 20th April 2006, 11:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
And what is Penn & Teller's evidence that they shot the video?
I expect we'll see that when the show airs.

I would think that if someone else had shot it, they'd be making themselves known and contradicting P & T quite strongly by now.

The removal of the page about the video from the BFRO speaks volumes to me.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I expect we'll see that when the show airs.

I would think that if someone else had shot it, they'd be making themselves known and contradicting P & T quite strongly by now.

The removal of the page about the video from the BFRO speaks volumes to me.
I'm not saying that the video shows Bigfoot -- only that P&T haven't offered any proof that they shot the video. It could be that they put someone else up to it or were told by someone that the video is a fake. According to -- http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/sononomafake/ --
The following is BFRO director Matt Moneymaker’s online response to the new Showtime promotional teaser.

"Regarding the stupid claim by Penn & Teller that they faked the Sonoma footage:

Their claim is false. They didn’t have anything to do with the footage. They are just trying to get a buzz going about their show. They are trying to trick people into tuning into the program. It’s a ploy, don’t fall for it.

They were trying desperately to license the Sonoma footage. Mark Nelson agreed that it wasn’t a good idea to let them have it. He would have OK’d it, and even encouraged it, if he would have been involved with them. He’s a real person, yet they say it was only a front on a web site.

A clever route they are taking now … by claiming they shot it themselves in the Valley… They don’t live in the Valley. They live in Las Vegas, and work six nights per week there. They only have time to do voice-overs for their Showtime shows.

Notice how they only showed the web version of the footage on their promo. That’s the best clue that they are full of crap. They would have showed the guy in the costume holding the mask in his arms. They would have shown clips of how they set up the footage. They would have shown Mark Nelson … the person that a few us spoke with … but they can only show what is available on the web, because that’s all they have.

Keep in mind, as P&T see it, they are breaking no laws by perpetrating this hoax. The hoax is not the Sonoma footage itself, but rather their claim that they faked the Sonoma footage.

They won’t go to jail for that, or get sued for that, but they will probably increase their ratings by making that claim.

It’s a nicely clever ploy when you think about it … They know it will be difficult to show that they are lying. And any attempts to discredit their claims will only bring them attention as pranksters and help their ratings.

So they are pranksters if they faked the footage, and they are pranskters if they did not fake the footage.

Very clever.

… And Bigfoot do not exist, and all the witnesses over the centuries were lying or hallucinating the exact same things …

…. or Penn and Teller are full of sh*t and trying to boost the ratings of their Showtime program …."
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:34 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
I'm not saying that the video shows Bigfoot -- only that P&T haven't offered any proof that they shot the video. It could be that they put someone else up to it or were told by someone that the video is a fake. According to -- http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/sononomafake/ --
The following is BFRO director Matt Moneymaker’s online response to the new Showtime promotional teaser.

"<irrelevant ranting snipped>"
So, no evidence of the supposed "real" filmer, then?

K, I'm going back to sleep.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
So, no evidence of the supposed "real" filmer, then?
I.e., the same amount as supplied by P&T.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:45 PM   #21
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Rodney, that is the link I already posted.

You couldn't have read anything I posted at all.

If you watch the P & T clip, they specifically say they shot the video 20 minutes from their office in the San Fernando valley, and that they made up the Mark Nelson story. They claim they are lazy, that's why they didn't go far.

There is no wiggle room in the claim. Either they shot the video, or they are telling one whopper of a lie.

I will bet a lot of money that they aren't lying.

If Mnoeymaker is telling the truth, why did he remove the video from his website?
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Later, we investigate the latest mysterious Bigfoot footage posted on the internet.
Not real shocking. What is the source of the claim that P & T are going to announce that they faked the video? I'm at work, and can't watch video teasers. Does the teaser on the Showtime site say that P & T faked the Bigfoot footage?

P & T have a reputation to uphold. If they're going to claim that they faked it themselves, then they had better have a longer version of the video where Penn takes off the head and shouts "Fooled you!"

What's the actual claim in the teaser?
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:47 PM   #23
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Sorry LTC8K6--cross posting.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:49 PM   #24
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Keep in mind that most folks in the BF community believed the Sonoma footage was a hoax from day one. Matt Moneymaker was one of the few to accept the video as real.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:50 PM   #25
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The text that Rodney posted originally came from a BFRO message board and was posted yesterday here: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread....hreadid=787067

Not long afterward the link showed a blank page. That, plus the BFRO page where Moneymaker made all his strong claims about the authenticity of the Sonoma footage is all gone from the BFRO website.

I suspect Moneymaker reconsidered the wisdom of publicly claiming Penn and Teller are lying.

Of the P&T Showtime episodes I've seen, Penn and Teller always do a good job of showing just how they set up the scams they pull. I'm betting we will indeed see just how bad the "Sonoma Suit" really is.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:53 PM   #26
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So how many times does the claim about "No one could make a suit...." have to get busted before we stop hearing it?

It's clear that several cheap suits have been made since the PGF that were able to fool bigfoot experts.
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Old 20th April 2006, 12:57 PM   #27
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Cryptozoology is the answer!!!!

Bigfeet and mothmen were used by the Atlanteans to build the pyramids without using ramps! Bigfeet just carried the blocks using their huge strenght, while mothmen hovered bringing blocks to the pyramid's tops!

Now all I've gotta do is force fit Cayces prophecies in this...

Got it!

Look, bigfeet and mothmen were fed on almonds, so they never got cancer!!!!!!
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Old 20th April 2006, 01:03 PM   #28
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What I don't understand is what differences the believers are seeing in the acknowledged hoaxes. They all look equally unconvincing to me. On the BFRO home page they have pictures for comparison from Patterson and the BBC reconstruction. The BBC guy has shorter arms. That's their evidence: the BBC costume doesn't have padded arms.
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Old 20th April 2006, 01:05 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Quote:
And what is Penn & Teller's evidence that they shot the video?
I expect we'll see that when the show airs....
You'd better hope so. If it doesn't materialize, I'll be carving crow and serving it cold.

For a bunch of self-proclaimed "skeptics", there are an awful lot of folks here who seem quite giddy about accepting P&T's claims, with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

Now, what's that all about?

It will also be interesting to see if P&T get the flogging that they will deserve from this crowd if they can't produce that evidence. There seem to be plenty (within bigfootery as well as skepticdom) who delight in whipping BFRO at every opportunity.

The difference is that most of sasquatchery opined up front that the Sonoma video was likely a hoax.

Maybe we'll see if lying skeptics get the same kind of derision from the skeptical world that hoaxers get from sasquatchery.
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Old 20th April 2006, 01:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Keep in mind that most folks in the BF community believed the Sonoma footage was a hoax from day one. Matt Moneymaker was one of the few to accept the video as real.
Correct, and Loren Coleman was one of those who believed the video to be a hoax: But Coleman also has an interesting story about these two heroes of the skeptical community -- http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo...z-headhunting/ --

"Be forewarned that currently a certain cable program is looking for a cryptozoologist to hold up to ridicule on their show. They are stepping up their attempts to find someone for a cryptozoology attack episode.

I was approached by them before the Bates Symposium. They wanted to supposedly interview me about the history of cryptozoology. However, I knew their technique is one in which they use clips of experts on the subjects they wish to ridicule, then with vigor and in nasty interjects, brutally make fun of the individual and the subject.

They wanted me to sign a long release written to protect them. I merely required that they include a short paragraph in their multiple page release, for my protection too."

Needless to say, that couldn't be done.
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Old 20th April 2006, 01:39 PM   #31
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Someone will -and probably already did- claim that footers considered Sonoma footage as a hoax since the begining. However, unless the Ministry of Truth says otherwise, the "its a hoax" position strenghtened ONLY after the second clip was released.
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Old 20th April 2006, 02:00 PM   #32
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[from Moneymaker]… And Bigfoot do not exist, and all the witnesses over the centuries were lying or hallucinating the exact same things …
... in fifty-one excitingly different varieties? :-D Or forty-some, excluding merfolk.
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Old 20th April 2006, 02:34 PM   #33
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Of course they were looking for a cryptozoologist to ridicule for their cryptozoology show. Who else should they look for when making a show ridiculing cryptozoology?

Duh!
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Old 20th April 2006, 02:36 PM   #34
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http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/marknelson/

Webpage shown in the P & T confession video.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 20th April 2006, 02:41 PM   #35
LTC8K6
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The footage is a hoax, anyway. BFRO still fell for it, whether made by P & T or not. So it still counts as another suit that fooled bigfooters.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 20th April 2006, 03:33 PM   #36
DeVega
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Just want to say - Starmaker - your clip just frightened the bejeezus out of my dog! She is hiding under the bed and won't come out!

Erm... thanks...
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Old 20th April 2006, 04:33 PM   #37
hellaeon
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Originally Posted by Huntster View Post
You'd better hope so. If it doesn't materialize, I'll be carving crow and serving it cold.

For a bunch of self-proclaimed "skeptics", there are an awful lot of folks here who seem quite giddy about accepting P&T's claims, with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

Now, what's that all about?

It will also be interesting to see if P&T get the flogging that they will deserve from this crowd if they can't produce that evidence. There seem to be plenty (within bigfootery as well as skepticdom) who delight in whipping BFRO at every opportunity.

The difference is that most of sasquatchery opined up front that the Sonoma video was likely a hoax.

Maybe we'll see if lying skeptics get the same kind of derision from the skeptical world that hoaxers get from sasquatchery.
P & T have a strong track record of showing their tricks. They have done it FOR YEARS before the bullsh*t show. Hence the confidence of the assumption.

Hunster, you should watch the Bible episode. And the Miracles episode.
Or the one that talked about NDE.

Is that why I feel the angst from you towards them? Hitting directly at your beliefs?
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Old 20th April 2006, 05:39 PM   #38
Rodney
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/marknelson/

Webpage shown in the P & T confession video.
Thanks for the link. There are two possibilities here:

(1) Penn and Teller posted, or had someone post for them, a fraudulent message about a Bigfoot sighting.

(2) Penn and Teller heard about the Nelson post and are now falsely claiming that they made the Bigfoot video attached to that post.

Either way, what they did was unethical.
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Old 20th April 2006, 05:39 PM   #39
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[quote=hellaeon;1588381]P & T have a strong track record of showing their tricks. They have done it FOR YEARS before the bullsh*t show. Hence the confidence of the assumption.

QUOTE]

I don't "have" Showtime, but I've seen the first season on DVD. They usually show the "set-up" for their con-jobs. A guy getting into or out of an ape suit makes for good visuals, and I expect to see it.

More importantly, where is Matt Moneymaker's evidence that Penn and Teller are liars?

If Moneymaker is genuine in his claims that the Sonoma video is for real then why did he take down the webpage ALMOST IMMEDIATELY? Why did Moneymaker apparently remove the BFRO discussion board page where he makes his "liar" accusations?

It is one thing to be taken in by a hoax. It is another thing to be a credulous person. But obviously Moneymaker shows the kind of gross arrogance that makes him a juicy target for this kind of thing.
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Old 20th April 2006, 07:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
Thanks for the link. There are two possibilities here:

(1) Penn and Teller posted, or had someone post for them, a fraudulent message about a Bigfoot sighting.

(2) Penn and Teller heard about the Nelson post and are now falsely claiming that they made the Bigfoot video attached to that post.

Either way, what they did was unethical.
What? You're not going to include the possibility that they may actually have been responsible, and someone else was lying?

I don't know what the facts are in this case, but it seems like you should at least list that as a possibility!
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