Gravy's "Loose Change" Critique, part deux

Gravy · 28th April 2006, 08:53 PM

Sorry for the new thread, but now you can download the higher-res Word file of my critique as a BitTorrent file. I've tested the download and it worked fine. This file is easier on the eyes, has working links where they should be, less sarcasm, and incorporates content changes suggested by JREFers. I would reformat it, but that's a big job and I'm working on a different critique for this weekend.

Those of you who know how BitTorrent works, download the torrent file by right-clicking here: http://www.prodigem.com/torrents/dow..._Guide.torrent, then open the torrent with your BitTorrent client to download the Word file.

If you're not familiar with BitTorrent, it's a peer-to-peer way of sharing large files that divides the bandwidth amongst user computers. When you download a file, you also are uploading bits of it that others need.

You need free BitTorrent client software to download torrent files. I use Azureus. There's a good FAQ for beginners here.

If you're using a firewall, you need to change its settings to open a port for your BitTorrent client to use, otherwise downloads are very slow. The FAQ above tells you how to do this. My download took about 4 minutes.

Suggestions for changes to the critique are always welcome. I did this thing in 6 nights and it's far from perfect.

CurtC · 28th April 2006, 10:14 PM

Gravy, do you need someone to host the DOC file for you? I just think there are a small proportion of people here who would have BitTorrent. I have extra space on my server.

Gravy · 29th April 2006, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Gravy, do you need someone to host the DOC file for you? I just think there are a small proportion of people here who would have BitTorrent. I have extra space on my server.

That would be wonderful, CurtC. I think I'll make those formatting changes over the weekend, and let you know by PM when it's finalized.

Dr Adequate · 29th April 2006, 05:16 AM

Let me know when it's hosted somewhere accessible, please.

RSLancastr · 30th April 2006, 11:38 AM

Gravy, have you considered uploading a .ZIP versio of the Word Doc somewhere?

It should be considerably smaller, and so not need BitTorrent or anything similar.

Gravy · 30th April 2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Gravy, have you considered uploading a .ZIP versio of the Word Doc somewhere?

It should be considerably smaller, and so not need BitTorrent or anything similar.

It's not that much smaller zipped. Once I do some formatting I'm going to take CurtC up on his offer of hosting. The proper thing to do would have been to correctly size the graphics to begin with, but I just didn't have the time. It was a rush job. I did come up with a snazzy addition to it today, though.

Did you watch any of the video?

RSLancastr · 30th April 2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Did you watch any of the video?

Sorry, which video? Loose Change?

Gravy · 30th April 2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Sorry, which video? Loose Change?

Yes.

RSLancastr · 30th April 2006, 12:46 PM

I have only seen parts of it. I have to watch my blood pressure.

Hawk one · 1st May 2006, 02:19 PM

You know, Robert, if it wasn't for that pages like 911myths.com already exist, I'd suggest your next project should be to go after the Loose Change people.

RSLancastr · 1st May 2006, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hawk one

You know, Robert, if it wasn't for that pages like 911myths.com already exist, I'd suggest your next project should be to go after the Loose Change people.

They're definitely a worthy target, but yes, it looks like it's already in capable hands, including those of Gravy.

Manny · 2nd May 2006, 07:21 AM

Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email.

Know any psych grad students? Bet s/he could earn a PhD going through those emails.

hellaeon · 2nd May 2006, 08:14 AM

I can host it on my bands site as a zip if you like, that way its a link you can use for future reference on a web site etc.

will be a good read - you rule mate.

kookbreaker · 2nd May 2006, 12:41 PM

Your critique made it to 911 Conpsiracy Smasher blog today.

Not the lone rather pathetic attempt at criticism. He seems to think that if he puts the word 'refute' in quotes that makes it unrefuted.

JLam · 2nd May 2006, 03:21 PM

Gravy,
Excellent work. I haven't been able to read all of it, but you do such a good job carefully and methodically tearing down each argument...it's great.

Gravy · 2nd May 2006, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by manny

Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email.

Know any psych grad students? Bet s/he could earn a PhD going through those emails.

Good! That's why I put my email on there. They know about on theUnited 93 forum, also. But guess what? No emails except from people who liked it and had suggestions for additions.

Manny · 2nd May 2006, 05:43 PM

Maybe that's a good sign. Even some of the Loosers are all like, "well, he's got some good points..."

Looks like the new fallback position is going to be <>popol vuh's: "So a couple of young men barely out of high school... It's not the Bible, it's an amateur film... I don't pretend to know who did it, what their motives were." Which is all a tortured way of saying, "well, we know it's full of crap but it ASKS QUESTIONS!!!!!" And that from a super-mod over there.

HidariMak · 2nd May 2006, 06:12 PM

I'll be keeping an eye open for that DOC or ZIP link. Unfortunately for me, I'm one of relatively few people in my work group who doesn't believe in the various Loose Change conspiracy videos. Perhaps your document will do a better job at countering such stupidity than my attempts have.

WildCat · 2nd May 2006, 06:15 PM

Gravy, that is really fantastic, incredibly well done!

kookbreaker · 3rd May 2006, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by manny

Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email.

Interesting. I would have expected that they would have been all over this article with complaints. I would have expected it to be on page 4 by now. Instead they seem stunned and are merely making feeble objections. The usually vile complaints on 911conspiracy have been limited to a minor complaint that Gravy didn't debunk something that was nothing but allegation to begin with.

I don't get the 'vibe' at LC forum, have they been slowing down of late or something?

Manny · 3rd May 2006, 08:17 AM

They have been having more and more people who have been saying things like, "well, I agree that not all the questions are answered but (fill in particular crap) is just not true." I think LC is being chipped away rather than being demolished. Gravy's piece is perfect, because it is a billion chips rather than a single blow.

Also, Dylan has basically said that he doesn't read the message board. He hasn't undertaken to correct even the painfully obvious stuff like the tarp/tent. So I think his me-too corps is feeling left without a captain.

chipmunk stew · 3rd May 2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by manny

Maybe that's a good sign. Even some of the Loosers are all like, "well, he's got some good points..."

Looks like the new fallback position is going to be <>popol vuh's: "So a couple of young men barely out of high school... It's not the Bible, it's an amateur film... I don't pretend to know who did it, what their motives were." Which is all a tortured way of saying, "well, we know it's full of crap but it ASKS QUESTIONS!!!!!" And that from a super-mod over there.

I got suspended yesterday after asking a newbie to look at the PDF:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=4046773

Arkan_Wolfshade · 3rd May 2006, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

I got suspended yesterday after asking a newbie to look at the PDF:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=4046773

Oh, the irony. Those that are claiming the truth is being covered up are taking actions to surpress views other than the one they wish to promote.

chipmunk stew · 3rd May 2006, 09:01 AM

On Dylan's blog, he points out that Loose Change is on the front page of AOL.

I posted the document on the discussion board, in a thread called "Loose Change debunked!" and then I came across this excellent list of links:

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_...ws+AOL+Managed

bjb · 3rd May 2006, 12:43 PM

Here's a nice link about breakaway light poles:

http://www.transpo.com/Transpo_Sheets_PDF/Pole_safe.pdf

Here's my post about it on the Loose Change forum:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=3444

Kevin_Lowe · 4th May 2006, 12:01 AM

I've started an account over there and I'm pointing out the obvious here and there.

There are some serious loonies over there though.

Ramooone · 7th May 2006, 06:00 PM

heres some more evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon. heres the e-mail response i got back from steve riskus, he took some of the first photos of the pentagon after he watched the plane hit it

Quote:

Its too late about the contact info. Its already readily available even off my site so Ive been dealing with the harrassment for years now.

I am kind of tired of recounting the event over and over again but I will reitirate that it was indeed an American Airlines 757 that hit the pentagon and not a missle.

Steve

this is cross posted with the loose change thread, just figured i'd throw it in here too.

BTW good job on the new critique!

Gravy · 7th May 2006, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ramooone

heres some more evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon. heres the e-mail response i got back from steve riskus, he took some of the first photos of the pentagon after he watched the plane hit it

this is cross posted with the loose change thread, just figured i'd throw it in here too.

BTW good job on the new critique!

Thanks for doing that Ramooone.
By the way, if some of you haven't checked the Loose Change thread, I have a new version of my critique up. The address is in my sig. It's a 5 meg .doc file.

pgwenthold · 8th May 2006, 06:44 AM

I haven't had a chance to look at the new treatise yet, but was wondering, is it indexed?

Yeah, it would be a major task, but with an index, this could be a great general and easy to use source for all matters 9/11.

Just wondering...

CurtC · 8th May 2006, 07:49 AM

Another question I have - what is the best format? I know Gravy considered PDF, but couldn't get the hyperlinks to work in it, so stuck with DOC. I'm not crazy about DOCs because you get all the red squiggly underlines where Word tries to correct the grammar, and I'm not crazy about PDFs for computer viewing - PDFs are good for documents that you plan to print.

Would a conversion to HTML be better? I tend to think it would, and it would make hyperlinks very straightforward.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 8th May 2006, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Another question I have - what is the best format? I know Gravy considered PDF, but couldn't get the hyperlinks to work in it, so stuck with DOC. I'm not crazy about DOCs because you get all the red squiggly underlines where Word tries to correct the grammar, and I'm not crazy about PDFs for computer viewing - PDFs are good for documents that you plan to print.

Would a conversion to HTML be better? I tend to think it would, and it would make hyperlinks very straightforward.

Good idea. Also Word should do the HTML conversion w/o issue.

hurdygurdy · 8th May 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

By the way, if some of you haven't checked the Loose Change thread, I have a new version of my critique up. The address is in my sig. It's a 5 meg .doc file.

Thanks, Gravy. I'm sharing it on Emule as well.

Gravy · 8th May 2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I haven't had a chance to look at the new treatise yet, but was wondering, is it indexed?

Yeah, it would be a major task, but with an index, this could be a great general and easy to use source for all matters 9/11.

Just wondering...

Yes, it's indexed.

WildCat · 8th May 2006, 06:22 PM

Ha! In this thread chucksheen claims your paper has been debunked already...

He must have forgot to include the link!

jond · 9th May 2006, 05:30 AM

Gravy-

Just getting through your excellent work, and I must say: you've got WAY too much time on your hands, and we're all better off for it! It's efforts like yours (and many others on this forum) that make this such an enlightening place to hang out. Thanks.

Gravy · 9th May 2006, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by jond

Gravy-

Just getting through your excellent work, and I must say: you've got WAY too much time on your hands, and we're all better off for it! It's efforts like yours (and many others on this forum) that make this such an enlightening place to hang out. Thanks.

Thanks, Jond, but blame delphi, Randfan and Chipmunk Stew for all of this. In fact, here's what I wrote in one of my first posts on the subject, a month ago

Quote:

The main thing, I think, is not to play their game and debate the minutiae. There's no need to get bogged down in details when their arguments can't meet the most general standards of fact, logic or reason.

Oops. Guess I failed at that!

Regnad Kcin · 9th May 2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

The main thing, I think, is not to play their game and debate the minutiae. There's no need to get bogged down in details when their arguments can't meet the most general standards of fact, logic or reason.

It really is remarkable.

Take the JFK murder: reasonable people can discuss the variables and entertain possibilities, what with the various players as well as the physical event itself. But alternate 9/11 theories (as of this date), in part because they suggest the largest operation of its kind, unprecedented in history, are such non-starters that the mind can only be boggled.

Blue Mountain · 9th May 2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

Good idea. Also Word should do the HTML conversion w/o issue.

Please, no! As a computer professional who lovingly crafts his HTML by hand, I know how horrible Word's HTML is. It's easily 3x - 4x more verbose than any good HTML needs to be.

If you do use Word to convert the document to HTML, please find someone who can run the result through HTMLtidy to clean it up. (I could do it; I have a copy on my computer here at home.)

hellaeon · 10th May 2006, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

It really is remarkable.

Take the JFK murder: reasonable people can discuss the variables and entertain possibilities, what with the various players as well as the physical event itself. But alternate 9/11 theories (as of this date), in part because they suggest the largest operation of its kind, unprecedented in history, are such non-starters that the mind can only be boggled.

9/11 theories blow me away. They are immensly illogical. I cant even fathom how some of them came to be. My mind cant break reality that much. Even UFO's have more credence.

CurtC · 10th May 2006, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

Please, no! As a computer professional who lovingly crafts his HTML by hand, I know how horrible Word's HTML is. It's easily 3x - 4x more verbose than any good HTML needs to be.

I'm in the process of doing a decent HTML version right now. I saved the DOC file as HTML, which as you know produces horrible results, then used a regular-expression text editor to strip out all of Word's verbose formatting, except for the hyperlinks and image tags, which I've kept. Now I'm going through and tagging Gravy's notes and his third-party quotes with separate tags, using CSS.

You can get a preview of the work in progress: http://tinyurl.com/jnfp8

I'll welcome any suggestions. I'm just doing the formatting, not editing any of Gravy's work.

28th April 2006, 08:53 PM	#1
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Gravy's "Loose Change" Critique, part deux Sorry for the new thread, but now you can download the higher-res Word file of my critique as a BitTorrent file. I've tested the download and it worked fine. This file is easier on the eyes, has working links where they should be, less sarcasm, and incorporates content changes suggested by JREFers. I would reformat it, but that's a big job and I'm working on a different critique for this weekend. Those of you who know how BitTorrent works, download the torrent file by right-clicking here: http://www.prodigem.com/torrents/dow..._Guide.torrent, then open the torrent with your BitTorrent client to download the Word file. If you're not familiar with BitTorrent, it's a peer-to-peer way of sharing large files that divides the bandwidth amongst user computers. When you download a file, you also are uploading bits of it that others need. You need free BitTorrent client software to download torrent files. I use Azureus. There's a good FAQ for beginners here. If you're using a firewall, you need to change its settings to open a port for your BitTorrent client to use, otherwise downloads are very slow. The FAQ above tells you how to do this. My download took about 4 minutes. Suggestions for changes to the critique are always welcome. I did this thing in 6 nights and it's far from perfect.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

29th April 2006, 12:55 AM	#3
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by CurtC Gravy, do you need someone to host the DOC file for you? I just think there are a small proportion of people here who would have BitTorrent. I have extra space on my server. That would be wonderful, CurtC. I think I'll make those formatting changes over the weekend, and let you know by PM when it's finalized.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

29th April 2006, 05:16 AM	#4
Dr Adequate Professor Of The Bleedin' Obvious Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,598	Let me know when it's hosted somewhere accessible, please.
	__________________ "It is a mark of insincerity of purpose to spend one's time in looking for the sacred Emperor in low-class teashops."

30th April 2006, 11:38 AM	#5
RSLancastr Philosopher www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 8,071	Gravy, have you considered uploading a .ZIP versio of the Word Doc somewhere? It should be considerably smaller, and so not need BitTorrent or anything similar.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

30th April 2006, 11:45 AM	#6
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Gravy, have you considered uploading a .ZIP versio of the Word Doc somewhere? It should be considerably smaller, and so not need BitTorrent or anything similar. It's not that much smaller zipped. Once I do some formatting I'm going to take CurtC up on his offer of hosting. The proper thing to do would have been to correctly size the graphics to begin with, but I just didn't have the time. It was a rush job. I did come up with a snazzy addition to it today, though. Did you watch any of the video?
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

28th April 2006, 10:14 PM	#2
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,095	Gravy, do you need someone to host the DOC file for you? I just think there are a small proportion of people here who would have BitTorrent. I have extra space on my server.

30th April 2006, 12:04 PM	#7
RSLancastr Philosopher www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 8,071	Originally Posted by Gravy Did you watch any of the video? Sorry, which video? Loose Change?
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

30th April 2006, 12:05 PM	#8
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Sorry, which video? Loose Change? Yes.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

30th April 2006, 12:46 PM	#9
RSLancastr Philosopher www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 8,071	I have only seen parts of it. I have to watch my blood pressure.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

1st May 2006, 02:19 PM	#10
Hawk one Bond Villain Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Guitar Hero dressing room... Posts: 9,614	You know, Robert, if it wasn't for that pages like 911myths.com already exist, I'd suggest your next project should be to go after the Loose Change people.
	__________________ Every time you feed a troll, Jack Thompson files a motion. Think of the judges! I joined up on the forum solely because I am a big fan of Hawk One. - FSM From the chatroom: <Matt> Hawk, I am going to abduct you from wherever you happen to live and appoint you Minister of Humor. <--- Matt dared me to put in this

1st May 2006, 02:21 PM	#11
RSLancastr Philosopher www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 8,071	Originally Posted by Hawk one You know, Robert, if it wasn't for that pages like 911myths.com already exist, I'd suggest your next project should be to go after the Loose Change people. They're definitely a worthy target, but yes, it looks like it's already in capable hands, including those of Gravy.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

2nd May 2006, 07:21 AM	#12
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, New York, it's a helluva town. Posts: 3,295	Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email. Know any psych grad students? Bet s/he could earn a PhD going through those emails.

2nd May 2006, 08:14 AM	#13
hellaeon Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: City of Burning Churches, Australia Posts: 1,493	I can host it on my bands site as a zip if you like, that way its a link you can use for future reference on a web site etc. will be a good read - you rule mate.
	__________________ Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan I don't exactly have a Phd in physics. I have something much better. Common sense. - pagan How does one change their mind without losing face after staunchly supporting a single point of view for years? It's quite alright, you are expected to maintain your opinion even if those responsible for 9/11 confess to their crimes. - Irony, MirageMemories style

2nd May 2006, 12:41 PM	#14
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,577	Your critique made it to 911 Conpsiracy Smasher blog today. Not the lone rather pathetic attempt at criticism. He seems to think that if he puts the word 'refute' in quotes that makes it unrefuted.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,577	__________________ My Webstore of Telescopes, Science Fun, and More: Spectrum Scientifics! Spectrum Scientifics Store Blog!

2nd May 2006, 03:21 PM	#15
JLam Proud Skepkid Parent Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Low and away Posts: 4,157	Gravy, Excellent work. I haven't been able to read all of it, but you do such a good job carefully and methodically tearing down each argument...it's great.
	__________________ Help take down Sylvia Browne. "what's dicksing? my dicksionary have no word for that" - Pillory

2nd May 2006, 05:33 PM	#16
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by manny Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email. Know any psych grad students? Bet s/he could earn a PhD going through those emails. Good! That's why I put my email on there. They know about on theUnited 93 forum, also. But guess what? No emails except from people who liked it and had suggestions for additions.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd May 2006, 05:43 PM	#17
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, New York, it's a helluva town. Posts: 3,295	Maybe that's a good sign. Even some of the Loosers are all like, "well, he's got some good points..." Looks like the new fallback position is going to be <>popol vuh's: "So a couple of young men barely out of high school... It's not the Bible, it's an amateur film... I don't pretend to know who did it, what their motives were." Which is all a tortured way of saying, "well, we know it's full of crap but it ASKS QUESTIONS!!!!!" And that from a super-mod over there.

2nd May 2006, 06:12 PM	#18
HidariMak Student Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 25	I'll be keeping an eye open for that DOC or ZIP link. Unfortunately for me, I'm one of relatively few people in my work group who doesn't believe in the various Loose Change conspiracy videos. Perhaps your document will do a better job at countering such stupidity than my attempts have.
HidariMak Student Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 25

2nd May 2006, 06:15 PM	#19
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 23,599	Gravy, that is really fantastic, incredibly well done!
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

3rd May 2006, 08:00 AM	#20
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,577	Originally Posted by manny Hang on tight, G. The Loosers have discovered the first version and want to drop you an email. Interesting. I would have expected that they would have been all over this article with complaints. I would have expected it to be on page 4 by now. Instead they seem stunned and are merely making feeble objections. The usually vile complaints on 911conspiracy have been limited to a minor complaint that Gravy didn't debunk something that was nothing but allegation to begin with. I don't get the 'vibe' at LC forum, have they been slowing down of late or something?
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,577	__________________ My Webstore of Telescopes, Science Fun, and More: Spectrum Scientifics! Spectrum Scientifics Store Blog!

3rd May 2006, 08:17 AM	#21
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, New York, it's a helluva town. Posts: 3,295	They have been having more and more people who have been saying things like, "well, I agree that not all the questions are answered but (fill in particular crap) is just not true." I think LC is being chipped away rather than being demolished. Gravy's piece is perfect, because it is a billion chips rather than a single blow. Also, Dylan has basically said that he doesn't read the message board. He hasn't undertaken to correct even the painfully obvious stuff like the tarp/tent. So I think his me-too corps is feeling left without a captain.

3rd May 2006, 08:40 AM	#22
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Media, PA Posts: 6,612	Originally Posted by manny Maybe that's a good sign. Even some of the Loosers are all like, "well, he's got some good points..." Looks like the new fallback position is going to be <>popol vuh's: "So a couple of young men barely out of high school... It's not the Bible, it's an amateur film... I don't pretend to know who did it, what their motives were." Which is all a tortured way of saying, "well, we know it's full of crap but it ASKS QUESTIONS!!!!!" And that from a super-mod over there. I got suspended yesterday after asking a newbie to look at the PDF: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=4046773
	__________________

3rd May 2006, 08:43 AM	#23
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew I got suspended yesterday after asking a newbie to look at the PDF: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=4046773 Oh, the irony. Those that are claiming the truth is being covered up are taking actions to surpress views other than the one they wish to promote.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

3rd May 2006, 09:01 AM	#24
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Media, PA Posts: 6,612	On Dylan's blog, he points out that Loose Change is on the front page of AOL. I posted the document on the discussion board, in a thread called "Loose Change debunked!" and then I came across this excellent list of links: http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_...ws+AOL+Managed
	__________________

3rd May 2006, 12:43 PM	#25
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079	Here's a nice link about breakaway light poles: http://www.transpo.com/Transpo_Sheets_PDF/Pole_safe.pdf Here's my post about it on the Loose Change forum: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=3444
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079

4th May 2006, 12:01 AM	#26
Kevin_Lowe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Queensland Posts: 5,089	I've started an account over there and I'm pointing out the obvious here and there. There are some serious loonies over there though.
	__________________ "A ruler should not listen to those who believe in people having opinions of their own and in the importance of the individual. Such teachings cause men to withdraw to quiet places and hide away in caves or in mountains, there to rail at the prevailing government, sneer at those in authority, belittle the importance of rank and emoluments, and despise all who hold official posts." Walsey, The Way and its Power, p. 37.

7th May 2006, 06:00 PM	#27
Ramooone Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: brooklyn Posts: 134	heres some more evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon. heres the e-mail response i got back from steve riskus, he took some of the first photos of the pentagon after he watched the plane hit it Quote: Its too late about the contact info. Its already readily available even off my site so Ive been dealing with the harrassment for years now. I am kind of tired of recounting the event over and over again but I will reitirate that it was indeed an American Airlines 757 that hit the pentagon and not a missle. Steve this is cross posted with the loose change thread, just figured i'd throw it in here too. BTW good job on the new critique!
	__________________ "And I want to conquer the world, Give all the idiots a brand new religion"---Bad Religion "an astronomer tried to outwit a police officer by using the doppler affect, having been caught jumping a red light, the astronomer argued that the light appeared green to him because he was moving towards it and it blueshifted. the police office excused him of the red light ticket and promptly wrote him a speeding ticket."

7th May 2006, 09:00 PM	#28
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by Ramooone heres some more evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon. heres the e-mail response i got back from steve riskus, he took some of the first photos of the pentagon after he watched the plane hit it this is cross posted with the loose change thread, just figured i'd throw it in here too. BTW good job on the new critique! Thanks for doing that Ramooone. By the way, if some of you haven't checked the Loose Change thread, I have a new version of my critique up. The address is in my sig. It's a 5 meg .doc file.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

8th May 2006, 06:44 AM	#29
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,464	I haven't had a chance to look at the new treatise yet, but was wondering, is it indexed? Yeah, it would be a major task, but with an index, this could be a great general and easy to use source for all matters 9/11. Just wondering...
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,464	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

8th May 2006, 07:49 AM	#30
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,095	Another question I have - what is the best format? I know Gravy considered PDF, but couldn't get the hyperlinks to work in it, so stuck with DOC. I'm not crazy about DOCs because you get all the red squiggly underlines where Word tries to correct the grammar, and I'm not crazy about PDFs for computer viewing - PDFs are good for documents that you plan to print. Would a conversion to HTML be better? I tend to think it would, and it would make hyperlinks very straightforward.

8th May 2006, 08:10 AM	#31
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by CurtC Another question I have - what is the best format? I know Gravy considered PDF, but couldn't get the hyperlinks to work in it, so stuck with DOC. I'm not crazy about DOCs because you get all the red squiggly underlines where Word tries to correct the grammar, and I'm not crazy about PDFs for computer viewing - PDFs are good for documents that you plan to print. Would a conversion to HTML be better? I tend to think it would, and it would make hyperlinks very straightforward. Good idea. Also Word should do the HTML conversion w/o issue.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

8th May 2006, 09:17 AM	#32
hurdygurdy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huelva, Spain Posts: 152	Originally Posted by Gravy By the way, if some of you haven't checked the Loose Change thread, I have a new version of my critique up. The address is in my sig. It's a 5 meg .doc file. Thanks, Gravy. I'm sharing it on Emule as well.

8th May 2006, 11:38 AM	#33
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by pgwenthold I haven't had a chance to look at the new treatise yet, but was wondering, is it indexed? Yeah, it would be a major task, but with an index, this could be a great general and easy to use source for all matters 9/11. Just wondering... Yes, it's indexed.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

8th May 2006, 06:22 PM	#34
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 23,599	Ha! In this thread chucksheen claims your paper has been debunked already... He must have forgot to include the link!
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

9th May 2006, 05:30 AM	#35
jond Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 375	Gravy- Just getting through your excellent work, and I must say: you've got WAY too much time on your hands, and we're all better off for it! It's efforts like yours (and many others on this forum) that make this such an enlightening place to hang out. Thanks.
jond Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 375