100 Monkeys and glycerine

Plasmadog · 11th May 2006, 08:38 PM

Hi all.
I know that Lyall Watson's 100th monkey story has been pretty much debunked as fiction, but what about the story about glycerine crystals that he relates it to? Does anyone know the facts about this, and whether it actually happened the way he says it did? I think Rupert Sheldrake also refers to it in support of his Morphic Resonance theory.

For those unfamiliar with the story, it claims that glycerine was once thought by chemists to be impossible to crystalize, despite many attempts to do so by all the known methods. Then one day an entire shipment of glycerine spontaneously crystalized in transit. From that day forth, glycerine has allegedly been easy to crystalize by all the previously unsuccessful methods, even in samples that have never come in contact with the original crystals.
Sounds like crap to me, but does anyone here know for sure?

Dogdoctor · 11th May 2006, 09:09 PM

I am not sure what time frame they are talking about but in 1923 there was no problem. Even if that were true it may just be manufacturing techniques for glycerin changed.

Pup · 12th May 2006, 02:13 PM

Another data point, from Scientific Miscellany, Prof. John A. Church, The Galaxy magazine, June 1876:

"Glycerine has on a few occasions been crystallized, and a chemist who has investigated the circumstances finds that extreme cold and agitation are necessary, and that only the purest glycerine can be used for the purpose. If perfectly pure and anhydrous, crystallized glycerine is first melted and then cooled to 30 deg. Fahr., and the minutest crystal of glycerine dropped in the whole mass instantly solidifies. Or if the temperature is reduced to 24 deg. Fahr., vigorous stirring will produce crystallization. The crystals appear to be prismatic, but they are so small and the melting point so low that it is difficult to measure them."

Edited to add: If only the purest glycerine would crystallize, a reasonable conclusion would be that the method of producing glycerine improved to the point that most of it was significantly purer than before, and thus easier to crystallize. I've got some information on the production methods of glycerine for medical use in the mid-19th century, but until the date of the change is nailed down a bit more, it's not really worth going there.

Cecil · 12th May 2006, 02:19 PM

This so-called "evidence" is clear proof that chemists of the 19th century were deluded. They even thought that glycerine had been crystallized when it obviously hadn't.

Everyone knows that glycerine was unable to crystallize until the passing of planet Y in the mid-20th century.

11th May 2006, 08:38 PM	#1
Plasmadog Student Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 44	100 Monkeys and glycerine Hi all. I know that Lyall Watson's 100th monkey story has been pretty much debunked as fiction, but what about the story about glycerine crystals that he relates it to? Does anyone know the facts about this, and whether it actually happened the way he says it did? I think Rupert Sheldrake also refers to it in support of his Morphic Resonance theory. For those unfamiliar with the story, it claims that glycerine was once thought by chemists to be impossible to crystalize, despite many attempts to do so by all the known methods. Then one day an entire shipment of glycerine spontaneously crystalized in transit. From that day forth, glycerine has allegedly been easy to crystalize by all the previously unsuccessful methods, even in samples that have never come in contact with the original crystals. Sounds like crap to me, but does anyone here know for sure?

11th May 2006, 09:09 PM	#2
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 12,083	I am not sure what time frame they are talking about but in 1923 there was no problem. Even if that were true it may just be manufacturing techniques for glycerin changed.
	__________________

12th May 2006, 02:13 PM	#3
Pup Muse Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 554	Another data point, from Scientific Miscellany, Prof. John A. Church, The Galaxy magazine, June 1876: "Glycerine has on a few occasions been crystallized, and a chemist who has investigated the circumstances finds that extreme cold and agitation are necessary, and that only the purest glycerine can be used for the purpose. If perfectly pure and anhydrous, crystallized glycerine is first melted and then cooled to 30 deg. Fahr., and the minutest crystal of glycerine dropped in the whole mass instantly solidifies. Or if the temperature is reduced to 24 deg. Fahr., vigorous stirring will produce crystallization. The crystals appear to be prismatic, but they are so small and the melting point so low that it is difficult to measure them." Edited to add: If only the purest glycerine would crystallize, a reasonable conclusion would be that the method of producing glycerine improved to the point that most of it was significantly purer than before, and thus easier to crystallize. I've got some information on the production methods of glycerine for medical use in the mid-19th century, but until the date of the change is nailed down a bit more, it's not really worth going there.
Pup Muse Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 554	Last edited by Pup; 12th May 2006 at 02:18 PM.

12th May 2006, 02:19 PM	#4
Cecil Muse Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 990	This so-called "evidence" is clear proof that chemists of the 19th century were deluded. They even thought that glycerine had been crystallized when it obviously hadn't. Everyone knows that glycerine was unable to crystallize until the passing of planet Y in the mid-20th century.
	__________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein "The common man marvels at the uncommon; the wise man marvels at the commonplace." --Confucious "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." --Bertrand Russell