Exercise and fainting?

Luciana · 14th May 2006, 10:24 PM

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was.

Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise.

Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

TheChadd · 14th May 2006, 10:27 PM

How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills?
The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy.

Luciana · 14th May 2006, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by TheChadd

How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills?
The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy.

Nope, it's a bike, because it's underwater, but the strange thing is that both times I felt dizzy some good 30 minutes later (after showering, changing, walking 2 blocks) and it was more than dizziness, it was a distinct feeling of "my legs won't hold me and I'll fall soon".

CFLarsen · 14th May 2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days.

...why?

rjh01 · 14th May 2006, 11:32 PM

How can you exercise underwater with a bike?

Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water.

If you cannot work out the reason you can go see a doctor.

Dustin Kesselberg · 14th May 2006, 11:42 PM

I don't know exactly why it happens but it happens to me whenever I train for a long amount of time.

What helps is taking breaks every few minutes and keeping your body fueled with the nutrients it needs.

Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too.

Don't tain a few hours straight drinking only water. Water doesn't have the nutrients that your body has been burning during workout and needs.

Luciana · 15th May 2006, 12:52 AM

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

Originally Posted by rjh01

How can you exercise underwater with a bike?

It looks like this.

Quote:

Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water.

This is complicated because my swimsuit will be drenched after the workout, but not before.

And I always drink lots, lots, lots of water. But maybe not enough! Underwater workout fools you because you don't feel the sweat trickling down your neck, and yet you are sweating. But I wonder if lack of fluids is the whole story.

CFLarsen · 15th May 2006, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

Well, duh!

If you lose weight, the police will report you missing.

Luciana · 15th May 2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dustin

Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too.

Man, how can you eat and exercise at the same time?? I can eat only up to an hour before, and it must be sth light, otherwise I get reflux or the food gets stuck and weighs half a ton and I can't bend at all or... else.

I could try Gatorade (though I'm unhappy to get those extra calories...) if that's what it takes...

El Greco · 15th May 2006, 01:23 AM

I wouldn't worry, looks to me like lactic acid "poisoning". Basically this means that lactic acid is being produced at a rate higher than it can be cleared, the pH drops and you experience these symptoms. If you are healthy and you can put up with this, then you don't need to avoid it. In fact many athletes strive to achieve this because this is how they improve their "lactate threshold". In a few workouts your LT will have improved (you will be clearing lactate faster) or your lactate tolerance will increase. Ways to avoid it: Drink a few carbohydrates during exercise. Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body. Or wait longer between sets. Or split the exercise bouts in smaller periods.

I actually like that feeling, but then I'm a pervert

Aardvark · 15th May 2006, 01:51 AM

I am not convined that fluid intake is the full story here.

In your description of your diet, you do not mention any long or short chain carbs.

1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting. Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling.

2 Get some urine sticks and test your urine for ketones. On a low carb diet, your blood sugar is not maintained by carbs in the diet but by your liver making them from scratch by smashing up fatty acids tha it pulls from the blood stream. We call this gluco -neo -genesis or new glucose manufacture, the word is actually not hyphenated as I have done , gluconeogenesis. If this is the case, ketone bodies will be excreted in the urine and on the breath, do you have stinky breath like people on the Atkins diet?

3 Your symptoms may be due to an electrolite or salt imbalance. It is likley that you are loosing too much potassium.

4 You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise. May I suggest a smoothy made from Banana, ice and skimmed milk. The banana will give longer chain carbs and supply potassium. Equally, after excercise this would help to relieve the symptoms.

5 See a physician

El Greco · 15th May 2006, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Aardvark

1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting.

Not during exercise. Catecholamines prevent dramatic blood sugar drops.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling.

They are not overweight because of their insulin resistance, they are because they eat too much.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise.

Long chain/short chain has absolutely nothing to do with bioavailability or glycemic index.

Aardvark · 15th May 2006, 02:24 AM

Chicken and egg on the weight thing.

Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight.

Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating.

I have seen trilas where early detection of insulin signalling problems has identified NIDDM before they are overweight and before sympotoms would have taken them to consult their Physician.

Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut??

What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise??

How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle glycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet??

politas · 15th May 2006, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise.

El Greco · 15th May 2006, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Chicken and egg on the weight thing.

Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight.

Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating.

Wrong causation. If we are to blame hunger for overeating then we can justify every obese person. Others may have disturbed NPY levels, others high leptin resistance, etc. ETA: There are extremely lean diabetics who have completed Ironman events...

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut??

Not only that, they may even get absorbed faster. It depends on a lot of factors, some of them unpredictable. See this page. Long chain/ Short chain is a superannuated categorization as far as the speed of raising blood sugar is concerned. Read the above page.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise??

Mainly through hepatic gluconeogenesis, but also by stimulating glycogenolysis in skeletal muscle and liver.

Originally Posted by Aardvark

How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle gycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet??

Irrelevant. Depleted or not, with a readily available carb source the lactic acid poisoning effects would be attenuated.

Camillus · 15th May 2006, 04:42 AM

Exercising in water may also be a factor. Water compresses the peripheral circulation and so the normal effects of hypovolaemia (caused in your case by exercise dehydration) are offset to some extent. It also prevents adequate clearence of lactate from the affected areas.

Once you leave the water and your circulation begins to return to normal in the peripheries any dehydration effects and post exercise lactate effects will be exagerated.

This is one of the reasons that crews generally try and rescue people who have been immersed in water in the horizontal position even if they appear well on scene.

rjh01 · 15th May 2006, 05:35 AM

Slight derail - For what reason do you do your exercises in water?

NeilC · 15th May 2006, 06:04 AM

Your diet doesn't mention many carbs other than the fruit and veg. Does it contain starches like potatoes, rice, bread etc?

Is it possible you didn't take in many carbs that day?

Also, I used to do some fairly manic swimming training that had lots of sprints and some hypoxic training. I used to really go for it. When I got out of the pool I would get an immediate colourful migrane and feel very hot. I learned to get back into the water to cool off for 10 mins before trying to leave.

Bikewer · 15th May 2006, 07:25 AM

I agree with some of the other posters, this sounds very much like "bonking" as we cyclists say. When you do aerobic exercise for long periods, it's essential to maintain fluid intake and maintain levels of nutrients in the bloodstream. Exercising in water will you give you a false sense of your perspiration, and it's very easy to get to a state where all the symptoms you describe occur.

Happens to highly-trained athletes as well.

Physiotherapist · 15th May 2006, 08:07 AM

I think the purpose of training in water is the increased resistance, so that you get a better training effect. However, surely the same effect could be obtained by going to the gym and using the weights and then doing cardiovascular work?

Crossbow · 15th May 2006, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was.

Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise.

Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

Perhaps your problem is that you are trying to exercise too much and too soon.

If you have not been regularly exercising at you the level you discuss, then an intense and extended workout coupled with a new diet program could cause the fainting and nausea problems you have been having. So try this, keep to your diet but use a shorter and less intense workout. Then, gradually work up to a longer and longer workout.

Please be careful, do not over do it, and if you keep having problems, then see a doctor.

strathmeyer · 15th May 2006, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

Most people want to lose fat, and not muscle.

Deetee · 15th May 2006, 10:50 AM

You have exercise-induced hypoglycaemia. Other posters above have indicated some of the metabolic background predisposing you to this. Basically your liver is unable to generate sufficient glucose (through gluconeogenesis) for your requirements. Your symptoms are fairly classical for hypoglycaemia, especially the dizziness, weakness and sweating.

See here and here. (The uncached page is inaccessible)

Luciana · 15th May 2006, 03:22 PM

Thanks, everybody. Some of you used words a tad too long, and lots of lingo that were entirely lost on me... but I guess I got the gist of it.

Why underwater workout? Because it was a fun and low-impact way of resuming exercise, something I slacked last year. And my gym is too crowded this day. You end up spending an hour on what you could do in 35 minutes just because you're taking turns in the equipment. And you can't even stretch without bumping into people.

In the past I have nearly passed out while at the treadmill (quite a few times, actually) but then it's only a matter of stopping and calling it a day. What I found strange this time is that the feeling came almost 30 minutes later, even though I felt perfectly fine while exercising. So if there's no warning, how am I supposed to know if I'm overdoing it?

Anyway, it's refreshing to know it's nothing really worrisome, though I'll sure try and avoid it. Unlike some perverts, I don't fancy reaching the point of nearly collapsing. If only it involved good wine.

politas: you find 1,200 too few calories? It's not, I assure you, because I want to lose weight. Actually, I wish I could keep this number forever, not for weight loss, but because eating small portions make me feel so much sharper. But I have a sweet tooth, unfortunately. It's a wonderful feeling to get ready to bed and find out I have some 300 calories to "use". Pass me the Oreos! No, kidding, but it goes to show that once you take your mind off food, 1,200 calories can even seem excessive.

Greco: "Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body." That's complicated in a bike, specially if I'm standing up with most of my body out of the water. So it's a lot of it in the quads.

I'll try Gatorade while exercising next time.

Soapy Sam · 15th May 2006, 04:31 PM

Or fish and chips afterwards.
It worked for Alf Tupper.

thaiboxerken · 15th May 2006, 04:42 PM

Need pictures of Luciana in a swimsuit to really get a grasp on what the problem is.

rdaneel · 15th May 2006, 07:07 PM

All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade.

IT'S AWFUL!!

Dustin Kesselberg · 16th May 2006, 02:02 AM

Trust me...Gatoraid is the key.

Also i'm not talking about eating a big meal. Just a power bar. Something small. You don't even need to eat all of it.

Do your workout and bring along a bottle of gatoraid. Once you start to feel faint and sick feeling then take a drink of the gatoriaid and rest a few minutes and it will go away.

Try it.

It will work

joe87 · 16th May 2006, 06:27 AM

Maybe you should try some canned oxygen when you feel faint.

Have you taken your pulse and blood pressure when you feel faint? Get a blood pressure monitor and see if your pressure gets very low, or your pulse is very slow or fast. That may give your doctors a clue as to what is happening. You REALLY should get a stress EKG test, to rule out heart abnormalities - you can have those at any age. Also, go off your diet for a week and see if the problem gets better.

Doubt · 16th May 2006, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by rdaneel

All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade.

IT'S AWFUL!!

True. Mostly when warm. But I still use it. There are other choices these days.

Hypoglycaemia is the most likely cause. You need to replace some of those calories you are burning right after the workout. Not a lot of food, but something with some suger and protein right after the workout. By right after I mean well under an hour afterwards.

And stay hydrated. You will lose fluids working out in the water. I don't know the mechanics of the fluid loss, but I have experienced it enough.

Having a sports drink during a one hour workout would not be a bad thing, but I bet they don't allow you to do that since the spinning is done in the water. However a sports drink may not really be needed assuming the rest of your diet is okay and the duration of the workout is not to long.

Dustin Kesselberg · 17th May 2006, 03:58 AM

The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do.

Try it and it will work.

Doubt · 17th May 2006, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dustin

The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do.

Try it and it will work.

No. Many of them have tried other sports drinks that taste better.

I still use gatoriad because my stomach is used to it and it is available at most of the longer races I do.

Also most people engaged in moderate physical activity don't need it. Those that are only doing moderate activity and do need it should take a closer look at their diet.

El Greco · 17th May 2006, 07:42 AM

Cold sweat and weakness are indeed symptoms of hypoglycemia but dizziness and nausea are much more characteristic of lactic acidosis.

Anyway, a sports drink during exercise or some other carbs pre-exercise may prevent that. A sports drink of course need not be a commercial one, it can be anything with 6-8% carbohydrates (when I want one I usually make my own with glucose and water). You could add protein or fruits or make it more or less thick, depending on what exactly you're after but this is rather off-topic.

Or you could get used to training in that state, it shouldn't take too long and the symptoms will subside.

Hellbound · 17th May 2006, 07:52 AM

When I was working out heavily (admittedly for gaining mass rather than weight loss), I'd make "shakes" of skim milk and fresh fruit for drinking after my workout. I usually added by protein powders and such to this

.

But anyway, might be an idea.

El Greco: I'd have to disagree with you that nausea and dizziness are not symptoms of hypoglycemia. In fact, these usually affect me before the weakness, and I've never gotten cold sweats (this is in non-exercise hypoglycemic situations). From webmd:

Quote:

Mild hypoglycemia can cause nausea, a jittery or nervous feeling, cold and clammy skin, and a rapid heartbeat.

Moderate hypoglycemia often makes you feel irritable, anxious, or confused. You may have blurred vision, feel unsteady, and have difficulty walking.

Mrs. Hmmphries · 17th May 2006, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by politas

Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise.

Actually, that depends on her size to begin with.
2000 sounds about right for an active, adult male.

When I was pregnant and breast feeding, my doctor recommended uping my calorie intake by about 250 calories (to 1500 calories) a day. I hardly think cutting 50 calories qualifies as a "severe starvation diet".

Deetee · 17th May 2006, 08:06 AM

Luciana, apart from the hypoglycaemia and dehydration, be aware that if you hyperventilate (as some people can do during intense workouts) you will blow off too much CO2 (from the lungs, you people!) making your blood more alkaline, which results in the familiar symptoms of dizziness, disorientation and cramps/tingling in the extremities.

Perhaps you are experiencing a mix of overlapping symptoms from all 3 of these conditions.

Luciana · 17th May 2006, 01:57 PM

On Monday I only exercised for one hour and today will be the same, because I'm dealing with the flu. So chances are I won't know until Friday if Gatorade and a power bar will allow me to workout and not worry about collapsing like a Victorian lady later (but I'm sure they preferred horseback riding to water workout).

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

I found out they have bottle-holders for the bikes, so you can just ask to have those installed. I feel so unsmart for not having paid attention...

Huntsman - juice shops are big in Rio exactly because after workout everybody goes get some. They come up with the weirdest mixtures and yeah, lots of those protein powders. I was after a beet-carrot-acerola juice when the world started to spin around me.

blutoski · 17th May 2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by madmonk76

Actually, that depends on her size to begin with.
2000 sounds about right for an active, adult male.

When I was pregnant and breast feeding, my doctor recommended uping my calorie intake by about 250 calories (to 1500 calories) a day. I hardly think cutting 50 calories qualifies as a "severe starvation diet".

Yes, that's a common mistake. I'm an active male, but below average height, and I've determined that I maintain at about 12-1300cal/day.

I up it when I'm training two workouts a day, or doing an open-water swim on the weekend, but only to about 1500cal.

Hellbound · 17th May 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

Just wanted to address this. To my knowledge, nothing hydrates faster than water. Gatorade hydrates you slower, coconut water hydrates you slower, etc, etc,. When treating dehydration, we would give Normal Saline (water at a salt concentration equal to the body, about .9% IIRC), not Lactated Ringer's (which is basically gatorade IV without sugar, has added electrolytes).

Reason being, your cells absorb water via osmosis, and it's controlled by the relative concentrations inside the cell vs. outside. This is also the reason overhydration can cause problems (drinking too much water without getting food/salts.electrolytes), because the cells keep absorbing water long after they reached the amount they need (can cause brain swelling and eventual death).

In any case, pure water has a lower concentration of solute than water+anything, and gets absorbed more quickly.

Now, I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong in this, but to date, I've not found evidence of it (a lot of claims from various people selling miracle drinks, but no evidence). IF anyone more knowledgable can weigh in on it, feel free

Aardvark · 17th May 2006, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Luciana Nery

).

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

I am not sure of terminolgy here, but the clear liquid that comes from the inside of a coconut has some sugars and salts only, no fat.

Fats and oils do not mix with water, you would see a cloudy or muddy drink.

However if you press the white flesh of the coconut, you get a white milky liquid which we call coconut milk in the UK and this does contain oil.

Oils and fats are the same in most ways, except oils are in a liquid state at room termperiture, and fats are still solid.

I would still recommend you to make up your own drink with either water or fruit and water. I always avoid manufactured sugar, sucrose or corn syrup containing drinks, plus if you make your own with fruit, you are getting a portion of anti oxidant vitamins and friut sugars or fructoses which are less damaging to teeth than glucose or sucrose.

Just wait and watch me get shot down for these comments!!!!

We rely too much on convenience manufactured foods, why eat a food bar, nature makes them for you, nuts, bananas, seeds, sultanas or raisins from california.

When I ride my bike I do not use Gatorade, I drink water and carry fruit.

14th May 2006, 10:24 PM	#1
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,850	Exercise and fainting? I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple. I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked. Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this. I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range. I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

14th May 2006, 10:27 PM	#2
TheChadd Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 390	How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills? The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy.
TheChadd Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 390

14th May 2006, 10:36 PM	#3
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,850	Originally Posted by TheChadd How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills? The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy. Nope, it's a bike, because it's underwater, but the strange thing is that both times I felt dizzy some good 30 minutes later (after showering, changing, walking 2 blocks) and it was more than dizziness, it was a distinct feeling of "my legs won't hold me and I'll fall soon".
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

14th May 2006, 11:21 PM	#4
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,805	Originally Posted by Luciana Nery I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. ...why?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

15th May 2006, 12:52 AM	#7
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,850	Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why. Originally Posted by rjh01 How can you exercise underwater with a bike? It looks like this. Quote: Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water. This is complicated because my swimsuit will be drenched after the workout, but not before. And I always drink lots, lots, lots of water. But maybe not enough! Underwater workout fools you because you don't feel the sweat trickling down your neck, and yet you are sweating. But I wonder if lack of fluids is the whole story.
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

14th May 2006, 11:32 PM	#5
rjh01 Fire Warden Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 9,056	How can you exercise underwater with a bike? Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water. If you cannot work out the reason you can go see a doctor.

14th May 2006, 11:42 PM	#6
Dustin Kesselberg Usus magister est optimus Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Al Jumahiriyah al Arabiyah al Libiyah ash Shabiyah al Ishtirakiyah al Uzma Posts: 4,673	I don't know exactly why it happens but it happens to me whenever I train for a long amount of time. What helps is taking breaks every few minutes and keeping your body fueled with the nutrients it needs. Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too. Don't tain a few hours straight drinking only water. Water doesn't have the nutrients that your body has been burning during workout and needs.

15th May 2006, 12:56 AM	#8
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,805	Originally Posted by Luciana Nery Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why. Well, duh! If you lose weight, the police will report you missing.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

15th May 2006, 01:00 AM	#9
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,850	Originally Posted by Dustin Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too. Man, how can you eat and exercise at the same time?? I can eat only up to an hour before, and it must be sth light, otherwise I get reflux or the food gets stuck and weighs half a ton and I can't bend at all or... else. I could try Gatorade (though I'm unhappy to get those extra calories...) if that's what it takes...
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

15th May 2006, 01:23 AM	#10
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 11,147	I wouldn't worry, looks to me like lactic acid "poisoning". Basically this means that lactic acid is being produced at a rate higher than it can be cleared, the pH drops and you experience these symptoms. If you are healthy and you can put up with this, then you don't need to avoid it. In fact many athletes strive to achieve this because this is how they improve their "lactate threshold". In a few workouts your LT will have improved (you will be clearing lactate faster) or your lactate tolerance will increase. Ways to avoid it: Drink a few carbohydrates during exercise. Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body. Or wait longer between sets. Or split the exercise bouts in smaller periods. I actually like that feeling, but then I'm a pervert
	__________________ "As though it were not I but someone else / I went way through life No matter how careful one is / No matter if one chases after things Always, it will always be too late / There is no second life." - The Complaint - Odysseas Elytis Kenya-Tanzania

15th May 2006, 01:51 AM	#11
Aardvark Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 62	I am not convined that fluid intake is the full story here. In your description of your diet, you do not mention any long or short chain carbs. 1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting. Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling. 2 Get some urine sticks and test your urine for ketones. On a low carb diet, your blood sugar is not maintained by carbs in the diet but by your liver making them from scratch by smashing up fatty acids tha it pulls from the blood stream. We call this gluco -neo -genesis or new glucose manufacture, the word is actually not hyphenated as I have done , gluconeogenesis. If this is the case, ketone bodies will be excreted in the urine and on the breath, do you have stinky breath like people on the Atkins diet? 3 Your symptoms may be due to an electrolite or salt imbalance. It is likley that you are loosing too much potassium. 4 You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise. May I suggest a smoothy made from Banana, ice and skimmed milk. The banana will give longer chain carbs and supply potassium. Equally, after excercise this would help to relieve the symptoms. 5 See a physician
Aardvark Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 62

15th May 2006, 02:00 AM	#12
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 11,147	Originally Posted by Aardvark 1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting. Not during exercise. Catecholamines prevent dramatic blood sugar drops. Originally Posted by Aardvark Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling. They are not overweight because of their insulin resistance, they are because they eat too much. Originally Posted by Aardvark You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise. Long chain/short chain has absolutely nothing to do with bioavailability or glycemic index.
	__________________ "As though it were not I but someone else / I went way through life No matter how careful one is / No matter if one chases after things Always, it will always be too late / There is no second life." - The Complaint - Odysseas Elytis Kenya-Tanzania

15th May 2006, 02:24 AM	#13
Aardvark Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 62	Chicken and egg on the weight thing. Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight. Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating. I have seen trilas where early detection of insulin signalling problems has identified NIDDM before they are overweight and before sympotoms would have taken them to consult their Physician. Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut?? What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise?? How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle glycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet??
Aardvark Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 62	Last edited by Aardvark; 15th May 2006 at 03:07 AM.

15th May 2006, 02:53 AM	#14
politas Evil Atheist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 871	Starvation diet? Originally Posted by Luciana Nery I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked. Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise.
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15th May 2006, 03:17 AM	#15
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 11,147	Originally Posted by Aardvark Chicken and egg on the weight thing. Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight. Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating. Wrong causation. If we are to blame hunger for overeating then we can justify every obese person. Others may have disturbed NPY levels, others high leptin resistance, etc. ETA: There are extremely lean diabetics who have completed Ironman events... Originally Posted by Aardvark Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut?? Not only that, they may even get absorbed faster. It depends on a lot of factors, some of them unpredictable. See this page. Long chain/ Short chain is a superannuated categorization as far as the speed of raising blood sugar is concerned. Read the above page. Originally Posted by Aardvark What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise?? Mainly through hepatic gluconeogenesis, but also by stimulating glycogenolysis in skeletal muscle and liver. Originally Posted by Aardvark How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle gycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet?? Irrelevant. Depleted or not, with a readily available carb source the lactic acid poisoning effects would be attenuated.
	__________________ "As though it were not I but someone else / I went way through life No matter how careful one is / No matter if one chases after things Always, it will always be too late / There is no second life." - The Complaint - Odysseas Elytis Kenya-Tanzania Last edited by El Greco; 15th May 2006 at 03:25 AM.

15th May 2006, 04:42 AM	#16
Camillus Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	Exercising in water may also be a factor. Water compresses the peripheral circulation and so the normal effects of hypovolaemia (caused in your case by exercise dehydration) are offset to some extent. It also prevents adequate clearence of lactate from the affected areas. Once you leave the water and your circulation begins to return to normal in the peripheries any dehydration effects and post exercise lactate effects will be exagerated. This is one of the reasons that crews generally try and rescue people who have been immersed in water in the horizontal position even if they appear well on scene.
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15th May 2006, 05:35 AM	#17
rjh01 Fire Warden Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 9,056	Slight derail - For what reason do you do your exercises in water?

15th May 2006, 06:04 AM	#18
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	Your diet doesn't mention many carbs other than the fruit and veg. Does it contain starches like potatoes, rice, bread etc? Is it possible you didn't take in many carbs that day? Also, I used to do some fairly manic swimming training that had lots of sprints and some hypoxic training. I used to really go for it. When I got out of the pool I would get an immediate colourful migrane and feel very hot. I learned to get back into the water to cool off for 10 mins before trying to leave.

15th May 2006, 07:25 AM	#19
Bikewer Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 4,985	I agree with some of the other posters, this sounds very much like "bonking" as we cyclists say. When you do aerobic exercise for long periods, it's essential to maintain fluid intake and maintain levels of nutrients in the bloodstream. Exercising in water will you give you a false sense of your perspiration, and it's very easy to get to a state where all the symptoms you describe occur. Happens to highly-trained athletes as well.

15th May 2006, 08:07 AM	#20
Physiotherapist Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 330	I think the purpose of training in water is the increased resistance, so that you get a better training effect. However, surely the same effect could be obtained by going to the gym and using the weights and then doing cardiovascular work?

15th May 2006, 08:24 AM	#21
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,223	Originally Posted by Luciana Nery I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple. I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked. Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this. I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range. I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later? Perhaps your problem is that you are trying to exercise too much and too soon. If you have not been regularly exercising at you the level you discuss, then an intense and extended workout coupled with a new diet program could cause the fainting and nausea problems you have been having. So try this, keep to your diet but use a shorter and less intense workout. Then, gradually work up to a longer and longer workout. Please be careful, do not over do it, and if you keep having problems, then see a doctor.
	__________________ President Bush recently said: "It's a joy to be your President. It's not only an honor, it's a joy, because I truly believe the decisions I am making will yield the peace we want and the prosperity that we all desire." http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0071003-3.html A man's best friend is his dogma.

15th May 2006, 08:26 AM	#22
strathmeyer seriously unable to be serious Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 2,382	Originally Posted by Luciana Nery Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why. Most people want to lose fat, and not muscle.

15th May 2006, 10:50 AM	#23
Deetee Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,386	You have exercise-induced hypoglycaemia. Other posters above have indicated some of the metabolic background predisposing you to this. Basically your liver is unable to generate sufficient glucose (through gluconeogenesis) for your requirements. Your symptoms are fairly classical for hypoglycaemia, especially the dizziness, weakness and sweating. See here and here. (The uncached page is inaccessible)
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15th May 2006, 03:22 PM	#24
Luciana Skeptical Carioca Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,850	Thanks, everybody. Some of you used words a tad too long, and lots of lingo that were entirely lost on me... but I guess I got the gist of it. Why underwater workout? Because it was a fun and low-impact way of resuming exercise, something I slacked last year. And my gym is too crowded this day. You end up spending an hour on what you could do in 35 minutes just because you're taking turns in the equipment. And you can't even stretch without bumping into people. In the past I have nearly passed out while at the treadmill (quite a few times, actually) but then it's only a matter of stopping and calling it a day. What I found strange this time is that the feeling came almost 30 minutes later, even though I felt perfectly fine while exercising. So if there's no warning, how am I supposed to know if I'm overdoing it? Anyway, it's refreshing to know it's nothing really worrisome, though I'll sure try and avoid it. Unlike some perverts, I don't fancy reaching the point of nearly collapsing. If only it involved good wine. politas: you find 1,200 too few calories? It's not, I assure you, because I want to lose weight. Actually, I wish I could keep this number forever, not for weight loss, but because eating small portions make me feel so much sharper. But I have a sweet tooth, unfortunately. It's a wonderful feeling to get ready to bed and find out I have some 300 calories to "use". Pass me the Oreos! No, kidding, but it goes to show that once you take your mind off food, 1,200 calories can even seem excessive. Greco: "Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body." That's complicated in a bike, specially if I'm standing up with most of my body out of the water. So it's a lot of it in the quads. I'll try Gatorade while exercising next time.
	__________________ Regards, Luciana

15th May 2006, 04:31 PM	#25
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 17,390	Or fish and chips afterwards. It worked for Alf Tupper.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 17,390

15th May 2006, 04:42 PM	#26
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 13,273	Need pictures of Luciana in a swimsuit to really get a grasp on what the problem is.
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15th May 2006, 07:07 PM	#27
rdaneel Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I'M IN THE PHONEBOOK!!! I'M SOMEBODY!!! Posts: 1,389	All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade. *IT'S AWFUL!!*
	__________________ "Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne

16th May 2006, 02:02 AM	#28
Dustin Kesselberg Usus magister est optimus Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Al Jumahiriyah al Arabiyah al Libiyah ash Shabiyah al Ishtirakiyah al Uzma Posts: 4,673	Trust me...Gatoraid is the key. Also i'm not talking about eating a big meal. Just a power bar. Something small. You don't even need to eat all of it. Do your workout and bring along a bottle of gatoraid. Once you start to feel faint and sick feeling then take a drink of the gatoriaid and rest a few minutes and it will go away. Try it. It will work

16th May 2006, 06:27 AM	#29
joe87 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 89	Maybe you should try some canned oxygen when you feel faint. Have you taken your pulse and blood pressure when you feel faint? Get a blood pressure monitor and see if your pressure gets very low, or your pulse is very slow or fast. That may give your doctors a clue as to what is happening. You REALLY should get a stress EKG test, to rule out heart abnormalities - you can have those at any age. Also, go off your diet for a week and see if the problem gets better.
joe87 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 89

16th May 2006, 06:56 AM	#30
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	Originally Posted by rdaneel All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade. *IT'S AWFUL!!* True. Mostly when warm. But I still use it. There are other choices these days. Hypoglycaemia is the most likely cause. You need to replace some of those calories you are burning right after the workout. Not a lot of food, but something with some suger and protein right after the workout. By right after I mean well under an hour afterwards. And stay hydrated. You will lose fluids working out in the water. I don't know the mechanics of the fluid loss, but I have experienced it enough. Having a sports drink during a one hour workout would not be a bad thing, but I bet they don't allow you to do that since the spinning is done in the water. However a sports drink may not really be needed assuming the rest of your diet is okay and the duration of the workout is not to long.
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Tolyatti, Russia again. Oct. 21 to Nov. something-or-other. Monterrey, Mexico? Russia again? Maybe? Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

17th May 2006, 03:58 AM	#31
Dustin Kesselberg Usus magister est optimus Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Al Jumahiriyah al Arabiyah al Libiyah ash Shabiyah al Ishtirakiyah al Uzma Posts: 4,673	The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do. Try it and it will work.

17th May 2006, 06:53 AM	#32
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	Originally Posted by Dustin The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do. Try it and it will work. No. Many of them have tried other sports drinks that taste better. I still use gatoriad because my stomach is used to it and it is available at most of the longer races I do. Also most people engaged in moderate physical activity don't need it. Those that are only doing moderate activity and do need it should take a closer look at their diet.
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Tolyatti, Russia again. Oct. 21 to Nov. something-or-other. Monterrey, Mexico? Russia again? Maybe? Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist! Last edited by Doubt; 17th May 2006 at 06:55 AM.

17th May 2006, 07:42 AM	#33
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 11,147	Cold sweat and weakness are indeed symptoms of hypoglycemia but dizziness and nausea are much more characteristic of lactic acidosis. Anyway, a sports drink during exercise or some other carbs pre-exercise may prevent that. A sports drink of course need not be a commercial one, it can be anything with 6-8% carbohydrates (when I want one I usually make my own with glucose and water). You could add protein or fruits or make it more or less thick, depending on what exactly you're after but this is rather off-topic. Or you could get used to training in that state, it shouldn't take too long and the symptoms will subside.
	__________________ "As though it were not I but someone else / I went way through life No matter how careful one is / No matter if one chases after things Always, it will always be too late / There is no second life." - The Complaint - Odysseas Elytis Kenya-Tanzania

17th May 2006, 07:52 AM	#34
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	When I was working out heavily (admittedly for gaining mass rather than weight loss), I'd make "shakes" of skim milk and fresh fruit for drinking after my workout. I usually added by protein powders and such to this . But anyway, might be an idea. El Greco: I'd have to disagree with you that nausea and dizziness are not symptoms of hypoglycemia. In fact, these usually affect me before the weakness, and I've never gotten cold sweats (this is in non-exercise hypoglycemic situations). From webmd: Quote: Mild hypoglycemia can cause nausea, a jittery or nervous feeling, cold and clammy skin, and a rapid heartbeat. Moderate hypoglycemia often makes you feel irritable, anxious, or confused. You may have blurred vision, feel unsteady, and have difficulty walking.
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

17th May 2006, 08:04 AM	#35
Mrs. Hmmphries AKA madmonk76 Join Date: May 2005 Location: O-Town Posts: 5,045	Originally Posted by politas Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise. Actually, that depends on her size to begin with. 2000 sounds about right for an active, adult male. When I was pregnant and breast feeding, my doctor recommended uping my calorie intake by about 250 calories (to 1500 calories) a day. I hardly think cutting 50 calories qualifies as a "severe starvation diet".
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