7-11 to Sell Canned Oxygen in Japan

SteveGrenard · 15th May 2006, 12:24 PM

How do you say rip-off in Japanese?

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003580082

Quote:

Canned Oxygen To Be Sold In 7-11 Stores In Japan

May 15, 2006 2:01 p.m. EST
Julie Farby - All Headline News Staff Writer

Japan (AHN)— Japanese convenience store operator Seven-Eleven Japan announces it will make an entry into the rapidly expanding oxygen market, and begin selling cans of oxygen on May 24.

According to the RapidNewsWire.com report, oxygen has emerged as a popular new product and sparked the creation of city "oxygen bars" that provide oxygen for customers to breathe in.

As the first retailer among Japanese convenience stores and supermarkets to enter the so-called oxygen market, Seven-Eleven will sell small portable cans.

The idea behind the product is to allow buyers to replenish their oxygen levels anytime they feel a lack of it due to stress, fatigue, or other factors.

According to the report, a drop in the amount of oxygen in the body can make people start to yawn and sigh. Normal air contains only about 21 percent oxygen, but the oxygen concentration in the cans is 95 percent, and breathing it in can reportedly bring on a feeling of invigoration.

bob_kark · 15th May 2006, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

How do you say rip-off in Japanese?

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003580082

[b][/color]

Yeah, I know! They totally did that in Spaceballs!

SteveGrenard · 15th May 2006, 12:36 PM

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20060513p2a00m0na027000c.html

This Guy · 15th May 2006, 12:55 PM

So, other than the potential for raging fires being fed by nearly pure oxygen, and the potential for oxygen overdosing, are there any negatives to this?

Hellbound · 15th May 2006, 02:15 PM

I dunno, I could see a use for this.

Open up a can and top-off on oxygen right before my 2-mile run test for the Army...

Ririon · 15th May 2006, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

I dunno, I could see a use for this.

Open up a can and top-off on oxygen right before my 2-mile run test for the Army...

Or even DURING the run test. Most people could use som "invigoration" then. The better you do at that test, the higher the chance that you will be sent somewhere horrible where people are shooting at you, right?

Athletes sometimes train in a low oxygen environment at (simulated) altitude to improve lung performance. What if you really wanted to work out your muscles and heart hard for a long time? Longer and harder than is normally possible because you will run out of oxygen?

If you used a treadmill and an oxygen tank, could you run 5000 m at 800 m-pace? Surely, it would not be good for you, but sport at the elite level never is. My question is: Would it increase some part of your performance in an air-breathing run?

I saw a Finnish cross-country skier using what looked like an oxygen bottle while skiing once. I don't remember if it was during warm-up or restitution.

Don't try this at home.
Ririon

SteveGrenard · 15th May 2006, 03:46 PM

Supplemental oxygen is not stored by the body in any meaningful way. A can holding 35 X 2-second whiffs (70 seconds) will, 10 seconds after you stop using it, buy psychological benefit only. I have no idea what 70 seconds worth of pure oxygen $ costs in this market (they are charging 600 yen) .......but its got to be at a considerable mark-up over any commercially available small cylinder of medical grade oxygen which could last an hour or more.

Maybe someone familiar with xchange rates could do the math. A pony of O2 that lasts an hour or nearly 60 times longer than this can costs roughly $20.00 in the U.S.

Dark Jaguar · 15th May 2006, 03:51 PM

Convenience stores being run the way they are, there will be a moment where they decide to store the tanks right next to some matches or lighters, and some patron will be compelled to "test" the little fire starting gizmos shortly afterwards...

BlackCat · 15th May 2006, 05:38 PM

600 en is about 6 dollars. (Yes, I wrote en instead of yen.)

BlackCat

SteveGrenard · 15th May 2006, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by BlackCat

600 en is about 6 dollars. (Yes, I wrote en instead of yen.)

BlackCat

So that comes to about $360.00 an hour for oxygen whereas a small
conventional tank of O2 that lasts an hour and you can carry costs $20 in the U.S.
Plus its worthless anyway since it has no permanent/beneficial
therapeutic effect when breathed for 2 seconds or even the whole can for 70 seconds.

Dark Jaguar · 15th May 2006, 06:15 PM

But does it have a TEMPORARY beneficial effect?

SteveGrenard · 15th May 2006, 06:23 PM

According to the press release the recommended dose is 2 seconds of use...if one were breathing 20 times a minute, in and out, that's 3 seconds for a single breath to put this into perspective. Any temporary beneficial effect with these numbers is nil. The volume you could inhale in two seconds would hardly even clear your anatomical deadspace. If you suck up the whole can there would be a beneficial effect of about 1 minute and then you'd be breathing that polluted air anyway. They actually had vending machines for oxygen in Japan where people would step up, fill them with money and take some oxygen. Even with these you still
couldn't get very far since whatever you inhale rapidly becomes used up and hence depleted.

Ducky · 15th May 2006, 09:59 PM

Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it!

If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles:

"Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!"

Ririon · 16th May 2006, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it!

If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles:

"Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!"

There probably is a warning text. It's not much worse than selling lighter gas to people. At least oxygen is supposed to be inhaled...

If anybody wants to try some oxygen, why not sign up for the next TAM? Las Vegas has plenty of oxygen bars. I didn't try them unfortunately, so no anecdote from me. When I felt like doing something silly, I had no need for "invigoration". And when I had that need, I didn't feel like doing something silly. A light breakfast, on the other hand...

Meffy · 16th May 2006, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

I dunno, I could see a use for this.

*glances at the tag under Huntsman's nick*

Don't get caught! :-}

Blue Bubble · 16th May 2006, 08:20 AM

But where are they getting the oxygen from ? They're probably using some impoverished third-world African country, which is now in serious trouble with excess nitrogen in their air.

I can see the headlines. Someone should inform Bob Geldof.

P.s. I'll get me coat

CACTUSJACKmankin · 17th May 2006, 04:12 AM

honestly, is it any sillier than selling bottled water? I've also seen one of those flavored oxygen bars, those r just as silly. When I see those I always think "you know, I've always wanted to look like a cancer patient!"

geni · 17th May 2006, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it!

People have been selling gas for stoves for years.

Quote:

If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles:

"Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!"

Umm how? I suppose you could heat it and get the pressure to cause it to explode by you could do that with a bottle of water.

Camillus · 17th May 2006, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it!

If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles:

"Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!"

Oxygen is not flammable - it certainly supports combustion but you cannot ignite O2 with a spark.

Admiral · 17th May 2006, 07:59 AM

Also, the word is inflammable- not flammable. (Yeah, I know, only losers care about the difference. But on another thread, people are arguing about whether the word jacuzzi has to be written with a ®.)

Hellbound · 17th May 2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Admiral

Also, the word is inflammable- not flammable. (Yeah, I know, only losers care about the difference. But on another thread, people are arguing about whether the word jacuzzi has to be written with a ®.)

Um....

From dictionary.com:

Quote:

Usage Note: Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means “not flammable” or “noncombustible.” The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in. This prefix also appears in the word enflame. But many people are not aware of this derivation, and for clarity's sake it is advisable to use only flammable to give warnings.

See flammable and inflammable.

Oxygen is neither. It's an oxidizer, oddly enough

Admiral · 17th May 2006, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Um....

From dictionary.com:

See flammable and inflammable.

Oxygen is neither. It's an oxidizer, oddly enough

I quote from my handy copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style:

Quote:

Flammable.An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning "combustible" is inflammable. But some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means "not combustible." For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline or explosives are now marked FLAMMABLE. Unless you are operating such a truck and are concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable.

Now, having quoted Strunk and White and unintentionally implied Huntsman was either a child or illiterate, I think I will escape this thread before I make myself look even more like a loser.

Hellbound · 17th May 2006, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Admiral

I quote from my handy copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style:

Now, having quoted Strunk and White and unintentionally implied Huntsman was either a child or illiterate, I think I will escape this thread before I make myself look even more like a loser.

LOL

Nah, we're just getting our pendanticness off our chests :P

I think current usage is leaning towards flammable, because of the possible confusions, at least for warning labels. For "official" papers, where confusion is not likely to be immediately harmful, I could see using inflammable.

So it seems both our sources actually agree; the words are used to mean the same thing, but flammable is preferred for warning labels.

So we both get to be right

Admiral · 17th May 2006, 11:46 AM

Who saw the Simpsons episode when Dr. Nick says, as his clinic is burning to the ground, "Inflammable means flammable? What a country..."

CaveDave · 17th May 2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Camillus

Oxygen is not flammable - it certainly supports combustion but you cannot ignite O2 with a spark.

I once saw a demonstration where a jet of oxygen was shown to combust quite readily.

Did I neglect to mention that it occured in a fluorine environment?

Cheers,
Dave

Meffy · 17th May 2006, 07:52 PM

Heh, I don't doubt it. :-D

ISTR a Scientific American article, mid-1970s most likely, showing backwards flames -- jets of oxygen or air (I forget which) burning in vessels filled with various combustible* gases. The flames didn't look or behave identically to those made by burning the gases in air or oxygen. I don't recall whether they explained why. Several possible reasons come to mind: differing densities, viscosities, thermal characteristics...

blutoski · 17th May 2006, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by bob_kark

Yeah, I know! They totally did that in Spaceballs!

Mel Brooks. Comedian. Prophet.

http://www.1115.org/archives/perriair.jpg

This Guy · 18th May 2006, 06:56 AM

The flame hazard is caused by the fact that Oxygen greatly enhances any fire. It takes three things to have a normal fire (leaving out such things as metals that burn by suppling their own oxygen, though they technically still play by the same rules). Those things are Heat, Fuel, and Oxygen. Remove any of those, and there is no fire. Increase any of them and guess what?

Oxygen can turn a normal lit cigarette into a torch (well, it will make it burn a WHOLE LOT FASTER anyway).

Ever notice all the warning signs around homes and hospital rooms where there are patients on Oxygen? Ever wonder why?

I've heard the term "Explosive combustion" used to describe flames fed with pure Oxygen. I'm not sure that is technically correct, but I think it fairly accurately describes the effect. Oxygen will make anything burn MUCH faster.

I think selling cans of 95% pure Oxygen at the local corner store may not be the wisest thing to do. There will likely be deaths from burns, caused by some kid, or older idiot playing around with his/her can of Oxygen.

DarkMagician · 18th May 2006, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

How do you say rip-off in Japanese?

ぼったくり, or bottakuri.

Meffy · 18th May 2006, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by DarkMagician

ぼったくり, or bottakuri.

Cool. *thumbs up* Service above and beyond the call of rhetoric!

geni · 18th May 2006, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by CaveDave

Did I neglect to mention that it occured in a fluorine environment?

Almost anything will combust under those conditions.

15th May 2006, 12:24 PM	#1
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	7-11 to Sell Canned Oxygen in Japan How do you say rip-off in Japanese? http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003580082 Quote: Canned Oxygen To Be Sold In 7-11 Stores In Japan May 15, 2006 2:01 p.m. EST Julie Farby - All Headline News Staff Writer Japan (AHN)— Japanese convenience store operator Seven-Eleven Japan announces it will make an entry into the rapidly expanding oxygen market, and begin selling cans of oxygen on May 24. According to the RapidNewsWire.com report, oxygen has emerged as a popular new product and sparked the creation of city "oxygen bars" that provide oxygen for customers to breathe in. As the first retailer among Japanese convenience stores and supermarkets to enter the so-called oxygen market, Seven-Eleven will sell small portable cans. The idea behind the product is to allow buyers to replenish their oxygen levels anytime they feel a lack of it due to stress, fatigue, or other factors. According to the report, a drop in the amount of oxygen in the body can make people start to yawn and sigh. Normal air contains only about 21 percent oxygen, but the oxygen concentration in the cans is 95 percent, and breathing it in can reportedly bring on a feeling of invigoration.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

15th May 2006, 12:25 PM	#2
bob_kark Person of Hench Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Globalist H.Q., 25th floor, 5th room on the right. Posts: 3,899	Originally Posted by SteveGrenard How do you say rip-off in Japanese? http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003580082 [b][/color] Yeah, I know! They totally did that in Spaceballs!
	__________________ "You may balk at this, but bob_kark's argument that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders" is hopelessly flawed and totally circuitous." - Shemp

15th May 2006, 12:36 PM	#3
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20060513p2a00m0na027000c.html
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

15th May 2006, 02:15 PM	#5
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	I dunno, I could see a use for this. Open up a can and top-off on oxygen right before my 2-mile run test for the Army...
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

15th May 2006, 02:32 PM	#6
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,268	Originally Posted by Huntsman I dunno, I could see a use for this. Open up a can and top-off on oxygen right before my 2-mile run test for the Army... Or even DURING the run test. Most people could use som "invigoration" then. The better you do at that test, the higher the chance that you will be sent somewhere horrible where people are shooting at you, right? Athletes sometimes train in a low oxygen environment at (simulated) altitude to improve lung performance. What if you really wanted to work out your muscles and heart hard for a long time? Longer and harder than is normally possible because you will run out of oxygen? If you used a treadmill and an oxygen tank, could you run 5000 m at 800 m-pace? Surely, it would not be good for you, but sport at the elite level never is. My question is: Would it increase some part of your performance in an air-breathing run? I saw a Finnish cross-country skier using what looked like an oxygen bottle while skiing once. I don't remember if it was during warm-up or restitution. Don't try this at home. Ririon
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

15th May 2006, 12:55 PM	#4
This Guy Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 1,939	So, other than the potential for raging fires being fed by nearly pure oxygen, and the potential for oxygen overdosing, are there any negatives to this?

15th May 2006, 03:46 PM	#7
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	Supplemental oxygen is not stored by the body in any meaningful way. A can holding 35 X 2-second whiffs (70 seconds) will, 10 seconds after you stop using it, buy psychological benefit only. I have no idea what 70 seconds worth of pure oxygen $ costs in this market (they are charging 600 yen) .......but its got to be at a considerable mark-up over any commercially available small cylinder of medical grade oxygen which could last an hour or more. Maybe someone familiar with xchange rates could do the math. A pony of O2 that lasts an hour or nearly 60 times longer than this can costs roughly $20.00 in the U.S.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov Last edited by SteveGrenard; 15th May 2006 at 04:20 PM.

15th May 2006, 03:51 PM	#8
Dark Jaguar Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,666	Convenience stores being run the way they are, there will be a moment where they decide to store the tanks right next to some matches or lighters, and some patron will be compelled to "test" the little fire starting gizmos shortly afterwards...

15th May 2006, 05:38 PM	#9
BlackCat Notorious Path Crosser Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 331	600 en is about 6 dollars. (Yes, I wrote en instead of yen.) BlackCat
	__________________ We are star stuff which has taken its own destiny into its hands. -Carl Sagan I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -Stephen Roberts

15th May 2006, 06:03 PM	#10
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	Originally Posted by BlackCat 600 en is about 6 dollars. (Yes, I wrote en instead of yen.) BlackCat So that comes to about $360.00 an hour for oxygen whereas a small conventional tank of O2 that lasts an hour and you can carry costs $20 in the U.S. Plus its worthless anyway since it has no permanent/beneficial therapeutic effect when breathed for 2 seconds or even the whole can for 70 seconds.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

15th May 2006, 06:15 PM	#11
Dark Jaguar Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,666	But does it have a TEMPORARY beneficial effect?

15th May 2006, 06:23 PM	#12
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	According to the press release the recommended dose is 2 seconds of use...if one were breathing 20 times a minute, in and out, that's 3 seconds for a single breath to put this into perspective. Any temporary beneficial effect with these numbers is nil. The volume you could inhale in two seconds would hardly even clear your anatomical deadspace. If you suck up the whole can there would be a beneficial effect of about 1 minute and then you'd be breathing that polluted air anyway. They actually had vending machines for oxygen in Japan where people would step up, fill them with money and take some oxygen. Even with these you still couldn't get very far since whatever you inhale rapidly becomes used up and hence depleted.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov Last edited by SteveGrenard; 15th May 2006 at 06:28 PM.

15th May 2006, 09:59 PM	#13
Ducky Titanium Superhero Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota Posts: 10,341	Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it! If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles: "Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!"

16th May 2006, 03:29 AM	#14
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,268	Originally Posted by fowlsound Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it! If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles: "Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!" There probably is a warning text. It's not much worse than selling lighter gas to people. At least oxygen is supposed to be inhaled... If anybody wants to try some oxygen, why not sign up for the next TAM? Las Vegas has plenty of oxygen bars. I didn't try them unfortunately, so no anecdote from me. When I felt like doing something silly, I had no need for "invigoration". And when I had that need, I didn't feel like doing something silly. A light breakfast, on the other hand...
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

16th May 2006, 08:03 AM	#15
Meffy Anthropomorphic Skunk Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Unincorporated Territory of Croatan Posts: 4,232	Originally Posted by Huntsman I dunno, I could see a use for this. glances at the tag under Huntsman's nick Don't get caught! :-}

16th May 2006, 08:20 AM	#16
Blue Bubble Sharper than a thorn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Great Chesterford, Essex, UK Posts: 961	But where are they getting the oxygen from ? They're probably using some impoverished third-world African country, which is now in serious trouble with excess nitrogen in their air. I can see the headlines. Someone should inform Bob Geldof. P.s. I'll get me coat

17th May 2006, 04:12 AM	#17
CACTUSJACKmankin Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 223	honestly, is it any sillier than selling bottled water? I've also seen one of those flavored oxygen bars, those r just as silly. When I see those I always think "you know, I've always wanted to look like a cancer patient!"
CACTUSJACKmankin Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 223

17th May 2006, 05:31 AM	#18
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 19,857	Originally Posted by fowlsound Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it! People have been selling gas for stoves for years. Quote: If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles: "Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!" Umm how? I suppose you could heat it and get the pressure to cause it to explode by you could do that with a bottle of water.

17th May 2006, 07:49 AM	#19
Camillus Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	Originally Posted by fowlsound Hey you know what's a good idea? Selling highly flammable gasses in pressurized bottles to anyone that wants it! If McDonald's has to warn about coffee, 7/11 will have to put this warning on the oxygen bottles: "Warning: Acting like a twat can cause this bottle to explode and remove yourself from the gene pool. Cheers, asshat!" Oxygen is not flammable - it certainly supports combustion but you cannot ignite O2 with a spark.
Camillus Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	__________________ Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

17th May 2006, 07:59 AM	#20
Admiral Commander of the Fleet of Justice Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 770	Also, the word is inflammable- not flammable. (Yeah, I know, only losers care about the difference. But on another thread, people are arguing about whether the word jacuzzi has to be written with a ®.)
	__________________ "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner." -Locke, from Lost

17th May 2006, 08:06 AM	#21
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Admiral Also, the word is inflammable- not flammable. (Yeah, I know, only losers care about the difference. But on another thread, people are arguing about whether the word jacuzzi has to be written with a ®.) Um.... From dictionary.com: Quote: Usage Note: Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means “not flammable” or “noncombustible.” The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in. This prefix also appears in the word enflame. But many people are not aware of this derivation, and for clarity's sake it is advisable to use only flammable to give warnings. See flammable and inflammable. Oxygen is neither. It's an oxidizer, oddly enough
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

17th May 2006, 08:22 AM	#22
Admiral Commander of the Fleet of Justice Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 770	Originally Posted by Huntsman Um.... From dictionary.com: See flammable and inflammable. Oxygen is neither. It's an oxidizer, oddly enough I quote from my handy copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style: Quote: Flammable.An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning "combustible" is inflammable. But some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means "not combustible." For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline or explosives are now marked FLAMMABLE. Unless you are operating such a truck and are concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable. Now, having quoted Strunk and White and unintentionally implied Huntsman was either a child or illiterate, I think I will escape this thread before I make myself look even more like a loser.
	__________________ "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner." -Locke, from Lost

17th May 2006, 08:50 AM	#23
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Admiral I quote from my handy copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style: Now, having quoted Strunk and White and unintentionally implied Huntsman was either a child or illiterate, I think I will escape this thread before I make myself look even more like a loser. LOL Nah, we're just getting our pendanticness off our chests :P I think current usage is leaning towards flammable, because of the possible confusions, at least for warning labels. For "official" papers, where confusion is not likely to be immediately harmful, I could see using inflammable. So it seems both our sources actually agree; the words are used to mean the same thing, but flammable is preferred for warning labels. So we both get to be right
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

17th May 2006, 11:46 AM	#24
Admiral Commander of the Fleet of Justice Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 770	Who saw the Simpsons episode when Dr. Nick says, as his clinic is burning to the ground, "Inflammable means flammable? What a country..."
	__________________ "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner." -Locke, from Lost

17th May 2006, 03:48 PM	#25
CaveDave Semicentenarian Troglodyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Buddy Holly's home, Surrounded by tumbleweeds, duststorms, and tornados. Posts: 1,364	Originally Posted by Camillus Oxygen is not flammable - it certainly supports combustion but you cannot ignite O2 with a spark. I once saw a demonstration where a jet of oxygen was shown to combust quite readily. Did I neglect to mention that it occured in a fluorine environment? Cheers, Dave
	__________________ I, for one, welcome our new Authoritarian Socialist Overlords! . . . All Hail, Comrade Obama! WHO IS JOHN GALT? . . . Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. "Some say that I'm a wise man, some think that I'm a fool. It doesn't matter either way: I'll be a wise man's fool." Procol Harum "In Held 'Twas In I"

17th May 2006, 07:52 PM	#26
Meffy Anthropomorphic Skunk Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Unincorporated Territory of Croatan Posts: 4,232	Heh, I don't doubt it. :-D ISTR a Scientific American article, mid-1970s most likely, showing backwards flames -- jets of oxygen or air (I forget which) burning in vessels filled with various combustible* gases. The flames didn't look or behave identically to those made by burning the gases in air or oxygen. I don't recall whether they explained why. Several possible reasons come to mind: differing densities, viscosities, thermal characteristics...

17th May 2006, 09:52 PM	#27
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,158	Originally Posted by bob_kark Yeah, I know! They totally did that in Spaceballs! Mel Brooks. Comedian. Prophet. http://www.1115.org/archives/perriair.jpg
blutoski Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,158

18th May 2006, 06:56 AM	#28
This Guy Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 1,939	The flame hazard is caused by the fact that Oxygen greatly enhances any fire. It takes three things to have a normal fire (leaving out such things as metals that burn by suppling their own oxygen, though they technically still play by the same rules). Those things are Heat, Fuel, and Oxygen. Remove any of those, and there is no fire. Increase any of them and guess what? Oxygen can turn a normal lit cigarette into a torch (well, it will make it burn a WHOLE LOT FASTER anyway). Ever notice all the warning signs around homes and hospital rooms where there are patients on Oxygen? Ever wonder why? I've heard the term "Explosive combustion" used to describe flames fed with pure Oxygen. I'm not sure that is technically correct, but I think it fairly accurately describes the effect. Oxygen will make anything burn MUCH faster. I think selling cans of 95% pure Oxygen at the local corner store may not be the wisest thing to do. There will likely be deaths from burns, caused by some kid, or older idiot playing around with his/her can of Oxygen.
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

18th May 2006, 07:58 AM	#29
DarkMagician Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 1,539	Originally Posted by SteveGrenard How do you say rip-off in Japanese? ぼったくり, or bottakuri.
	__________________ Sometimes going by "Nyke" \| "Pascal's Wager: Believe in Unicorns, or one might kick you in the nads!" \| "There is no hope for humanity. Reason is dead and we dance on the corpse. Tra la la la la!" --c4ts \| Intelligent Design & Expelled Exposed \| I'm on dial-up. If you want to reply to me, summarize please.

18th May 2006, 08:03 AM	#30
Meffy Anthropomorphic Skunk Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Unincorporated Territory of Croatan Posts: 4,232	Originally Posted by DarkMagician ぼったくり, or bottakuri. Cool. thumbs up Service above and beyond the call of rhetoric!

18th May 2006, 09:45 AM	#31
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 19,857	Originally Posted by CaveDave Did I neglect to mention that it occured in a fluorine environment? Almost anything will combust under those conditions.