GPR test hailed by revisionists

WhiteLion · 16th May 2006, 05:17 PM

A current puppy of the Revisionism-movement would probably be the revisionist, electronics engineer Richard Krege.
His "group penetrating radar" study of Treblinka, though without any published data as far as I've been able to confirm, he did not find any "soil-disturbence" which should have been there due to the 870,000 jews who were buried there.

I would like to hear some opinions on the matter from people of science sans-revisionism loyalty.

http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/treblinka-lie.htm

And the award goes to:

http://www.nafcash.com/

Ducky · 16th May 2006, 05:20 PM

Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc.

As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review.

WhiteLion · 16th May 2006, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc.

As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review.

Yes, actual proof isn't revisionisms strong side, much like creationists they are oft content with finding missing holes and smaller details of incoherence, blowing them up out of proportion as so.

What's the link to the thread you mentioned btw?

Lamuella · 16th May 2006, 05:26 PM

revisionists hold their opinions not as concludions from fact but as articles of faith. That's why they're so joyful at nuggets that seem to confirm their opinion and so insulted by data that counters it.

CapelDodger · 16th May 2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteLion

Yes, actual proof isn't revisionisms strong side, much like creationists they are oft content with finding missing holes and smaller details of incoherence, blowing them up out of proportion as so.

Absolutely. This kind of argument is easily recognised, and the interesting question becomes : What is their motivation? Is it belief, as Lamuella thinks, or deliberate obfuscation?

Holocaust denial in the Western world generally has two aims : (a) to rehabilitate Hitler, and (b) to argue that Hitler was right about Jewish domination of the world. The "myth" of the Holocaust serves both aims.

Metullus · 16th May 2006, 07:14 PM

Addressed in painfull detail here.

This thread is also the source of the infamous "Chicken in the Basket Conundrum".

Doubt · 16th May 2006, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc.

As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review.

Same guy also showed up at skepticforum after he got banned here. He lasted a bit longer there.

Checked out the nafcash site and compared it to other GPR images of graves at a non-revisionist site. The only image on the nafcash site was of one side view which represents a very narrow slice of earth.

Real grave images with GPR can be stiched together to create an overview of the site looking down from above. Even then you cannot see any body parts that you can ID.

Also, from what I could gather, if you chewed up and landscaped a bunch of ground, you would not expcet to see any "distirbance". Everything would look the same. The pictures of supposed GPR work at Treblinka from the nafcash site were all on landscaped ground.

Also, IIRC, you may want to have your browser securtiy settings beefed up before going to nafcash. It could just be a cookie involved, but it does try to download something to your computer.

Doubt · 16th May 2006, 11:31 PM

http://www.du.edu/~lconyer/

A good source of info and images of GPR.

money · 17th May 2006, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Metullus

Addressed in painfull detail here.

This thread is also the source of the infamous "Chicken in the Basket Conundrum".

Well, I just read through that. Got my hackles up a bit. That guy made our resident "loosers" seem normal...

16th May 2006, 05:17 PM	#1
WhiteLion Muse Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 666	GPR test hailed by revisionists A current puppy of the Revisionism-movement would probably be the revisionist, electronics engineer Richard Krege. His "group penetrating radar" study of Treblinka, though without any published data as far as I've been able to confirm, he did not find any "soil-disturbence" which should have been there due to the 870,000 jews who were buried there. I would like to hear some opinions on the matter from people of science sans-revisionism loyalty. http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/treblinka-lie.htm And the award goes to: http://www.nafcash.com/
	__________________ "If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." -- Bruce Lee (1940-1973)

16th May 2006, 05:24 PM	#3
WhiteLion Muse Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 666	Originally Posted by fowlsound Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc. As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review. Yes, actual proof isn't revisionisms strong side, much like creationists they are oft content with finding missing holes and smaller details of incoherence, blowing them up out of proportion as so. What's the link to the thread you mentioned btw?
	__________________ "If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." -- Bruce Lee (1940-1973)

16th May 2006, 05:26 PM	#4
Lamuella Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 371	revisionists hold their opinions not as concludions from fact but as articles of faith. That's why they're so joyful at nuggets that seem to confirm their opinion and so insulted by data that counters it.
Lamuella Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 371

16th May 2006, 07:02 PM	#5
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 14,000	Originally Posted by WhiteLion Yes, actual proof isn't revisionisms strong side, much like creationists they are oft content with finding missing holes and smaller details of incoherence, blowing them up out of proportion as so. Absolutely. This kind of argument is easily recognised, and the interesting question becomes : What is their motivation? Is it belief, as Lamuella thinks, or deliberate obfuscation? Holocaust denial in the Western world generally has two aims : (a) to rehabilitate Hitler, and (b) to argue that Hitler was right about Jewish domination of the world. The "myth" of the Holocaust serves both aims.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

16th May 2006, 07:14 PM	#6
Metullus Forum ¾-Wit Pro Tem Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Waldo's Pond Posts: 3,303	Addressed in painfull detail here. This thread is also the source of the infamous "Chicken in the Basket Conundrum".
	__________________ "I DON'T SEE A CHICKEN IN MY BASKET, IF THERE WERE A CHICKEN IN MY BASKET I WOULD SEE IT THEREFORE THERE IS NO CHICKEN IN MY BASKET! DO YOU ADMIT THERE IS NO CHICKEN?" - fowlsound 9/19/2005 I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy

16th May 2006, 05:20 PM	#2
Ducky Titanium Superhero Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota Posts: 10,342	Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc. As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review.

16th May 2006, 10:55 PM	#7
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	Originally Posted by fowlsound Yeah we had a troll come through with that a while ago. IIRC, he posted a pic we showed to be inaccurate compared to the maker of the GPR equipment's site for depth of scan, etc. As for the "study" why hasn't he published the data? Seems suspect he would decree his data says one thing and not show his work for review. Same guy also showed up at skepticforum after he got banned here. He lasted a bit longer there. Checked out the nafcash site and compared it to other GPR images of graves at a non-revisionist site. The only image on the nafcash site was of one side view which represents a very narrow slice of earth. Real grave images with GPR can be stiched together to create an overview of the site looking down from above. Even then you cannot see any body parts that you can ID. Also, from what I could gather, if you chewed up and landscaped a bunch of ground, you would not expcet to see any "distirbance". Everything would look the same. The pictures of supposed GPR work at Treblinka from the nafcash site were all on landscaped ground. Also, IIRC, you may want to have your browser securtiy settings beefed up before going to nafcash. It could just be a cookie involved, but it does try to download something to your computer.
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Tolyatti, Russia again. Oct. 21 to Nov. something-or-other. Monterrey, Mexico? Russia again? Maybe? Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

16th May 2006, 11:31 PM	#8
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	http://www.du.edu/~lconyer/ A good source of info and images of GPR.
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Tolyatti, Russia again. Oct. 21 to Nov. something-or-other. Monterrey, Mexico? Russia again? Maybe? Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

17th May 2006, 02:09 AM	#9
money Muse Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 511	Originally Posted by Metullus Addressed in painfull detail here. This thread is also the source of the infamous "Chicken in the Basket Conundrum". Well, I just read through that. Got my hackles up a bit. That guy made our resident "loosers" seem normal...
money Muse Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 511	__________________ I am the first mammal to wear pants, yeah... - "Do the Evolution" - Pearl Jam www.stopsylvia.com