Cellular/Tissue Memory

Physiotherapist · 17th May 2006, 10:41 AM

What do people think about this concept?

axon · 17th May 2006, 11:03 AM

It exists in the simple manner that if a cell receives an input, it can change it's state, and thus act as a pseudomemory. However, the term is usually banded about by people arguing for some sort of cellular consciousness which is where it all goes downhill.

MichelQC · 17th May 2006, 11:11 AM

Please bear with me because I am not much of a scientist but just for my own personnal knowledge, how do you define "memory"? Do you mean memory in the sense that a living cell will absorb some kind of information it didn't possess at the time it was formed and then be able to retain it and/or transmit it?

Just wondering,

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 17th May 2006, 11:52 AM

The history gene, the history gene!

~~ Paul

Flange Desire · 18th May 2006, 12:22 AM

It all depends on what you mean by memory.
But if you mean memory as in the popular function of our brains, then ...

These memories are complex and require the participation of many individual cells working in concert.

This is a sufficient reason to posit that one cell does not have a 'memory'.

Flange Desire · 18th May 2006, 12:43 AM

But if you define memory to mean some informational content that records or describes (some part of) the history of the cells ancestors ...

The genetic information contained in the cell could be viewed as SOMETHING LIKE this type of memory, as it describes in a VERY abstract way the history of (some aspects of) the environments experienced by the ancestor cells.
But this information (memory) can only be interpreted (recalled) via reproduction; not by consumption.

Personally I would not use this definition of cellular memory, as it is an unnatural forcing of the reality to fit the concept.

athon · 18th May 2006, 12:48 AM

There's a whole thread on this topic that was discussed recently. I'll try to find it.

Athon

El Greco · 18th May 2006, 12:51 AM

I agree with axon. When muscle fiber typing changes in response to exercise this is a form of "memory". Nothing more, nothing less.

SezMe · 18th May 2006, 01:42 AM

In the USA the National Science Foundation has been running a series of public service announcements to highlight scientific progress that has been funded by YOU, the taxpayer. This alone raises many issues, but let me ignore them and focus on a single ad I have heard 2-3 times.

Basically, the ad says that grandparents can pass characteristics on to their grandchildren through means that are NOT contained in the genes of the intermediate generation. IOW, there is extra-genetic "memory".

Sorry for the lack of a cite. I will listen more closely next time I hear the advert and try to find some relevant (read, better) information.

Mojo · 18th May 2006, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by athon

There's a whole thread on this topic that was discussed recently. I'll try to find it.

This one, perhaps: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55635

athon · 18th May 2006, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

This one, perhaps: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55635

That's the one.

Ah, memories. From the corners of my cytoplasm.

Athon

17th May 2006, 10:41 AM	#1
Physiotherapist Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 330	Cellular/Tissue Memory What do people think about this concept?

17th May 2006, 11:03 AM	#2
axon Student Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 30	It exists in the simple manner that if a cell receives an input, it can change it's state, and thus act as a pseudomemory. However, the term is usually banded about by people arguing for some sort of cellular consciousness which is where it all goes downhill.
axon Student Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 30

17th May 2006, 11:52 AM	#4
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Looking for Fountain of Smart Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 16,757	The history gene, the history gene! ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz

18th May 2006, 12:48 AM	#7
athon Kowalski TLA Winner Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Upside the Inside Posts: 8,704	There's a whole thread on this topic that was discussed recently. I'll try to find it. Athon
	__________________ "Whether you're soar-away Sun, or BBC 1, misinformation is a weapon of mass destruction." 'Mass Destruction', Faithless

18th May 2006, 12:51 AM	#8
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 11,147	I agree with axon. When muscle fiber typing changes in response to exercise this is a form of "memory". Nothing more, nothing less.
	__________________ "As though it were not I but someone else / I went way through life No matter how careful one is / No matter if one chases after things Always, it will always be too late / There is no second life." - The Complaint - Odysseas Elytis Kenya-Tanzania

17th May 2006, 11:11 AM	#3
MichelQC Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 95	Please bear with me because I am not much of a scientist but just for my own personnal knowledge, how do you define "memory"? Do you mean memory in the sense that a living cell will absorb some kind of information it didn't possess at the time it was formed and then be able to retain it and/or transmit it? Just wondering,

18th May 2006, 12:22 AM	#5
Flange Desire Muse Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 572	It all depends on what you mean by memory. But if you mean memory as in the popular function of our brains, then ... These memories are complex and require the participation of many individual cells working in concert. This is a sufficient reason to posit that one cell does not have a 'memory'.

18th May 2006, 12:43 AM	#6
Flange Desire Muse Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 572	But if you define memory to mean some informational content that records or describes (some part of) the history of the cells ancestors ... The genetic information contained in the cell could be viewed as SOMETHING LIKE this type of memory, as it describes in a VERY abstract way the history of (some aspects of) the environments experienced by the ancestor cells. But this information (memory) can only be interpreted (recalled) via reproduction; not by consumption. Personally I would not use this definition of cellular memory, as it is an unnatural forcing of the reality to fit the concept.

18th May 2006, 01:42 AM	#9
SezMe Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 8,787	In the USA the National Science Foundation has been running a series of public service announcements to highlight scientific progress that has been funded by YOU, the taxpayer. This alone raises many issues, but let me ignore them and focus on a single ad I have heard 2-3 times. Basically, the ad says that grandparents can pass characteristics on to their grandchildren through means that are NOT contained in the genes of the intermediate generation. IOW, there is extra-genetic "memory". Sorry for the lack of a cite. I will listen more closely next time I hear the advert and try to find some relevant (read, better) information.

18th May 2006, 03:52 AM	#10
Mojo Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 14,504	Originally Posted by athon There's a whole thread on this topic that was discussed recently. I'll try to find it. This one, perhaps: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55635
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield Ridicule is not an inappropriate response to the ridiculous.

18th May 2006, 03:54 AM	#11
athon Kowalski TLA Winner Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Upside the Inside Posts: 8,704	Originally Posted by Mojo This one, perhaps: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=55635 That's the one. Ah, memories. From the corners of my cytoplasm. Athon
	__________________ "Whether you're soar-away Sun, or BBC 1, misinformation is a weapon of mass destruction." 'Mass Destruction', Faithless