9/11 denialist on "Hannity and Colmes"

senorpogo · 11th July 2006, 02:35 PM

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/07...n-hannity.html

Pardalis · 11th July 2006, 03:27 PM

This guy is thick. Accusing Fox, on the air, of spouting venim to the world.

What a **ick.

Mancman · 11th July 2006, 03:38 PM

He thinks the attacks in Madrid, London, Bali and all the suicide bombings in Iraq are all false flags too. What a surprise! (Not)

Regnad Kcin · 11th July 2006, 03:40 PM

How's this for a conspiracy theory?

Johnny C. · 11th July 2006, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

This guy is thick. Accusing Fox, on the air, of spouting venim to the world.

What a **ick.

I cant say I disagree with that. Fox News is the worst cable news network in America.

Hannity ripped that guy a new one. Im one his side for once.

pgwenthold · 11th July 2006, 04:04 PM

Hannity has a tendency to bring lightweights on his show to make himself look good. During the Cal governor recall, he had Gary Coleman on, and proceeded to hit him with all these big political issues (Coleman was on the ballot).

Of course, no one legitimate took Gary Coleman seriously in the first place and wouldn't waste their time. But Hannity really showed him! Great, Sean, you are so clever. Be sure to put it on your resume ("More politically savvy than Gary Coleman")

He's like the 6th grader who likes to prove how tough he is by beating up 3rd graders. But when the 8th graders show up...

Sal The Butcher · 11th July 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny C.

I cant say I disagree with that. Fox News is the worst cable news network in America.

Hannity ripped that guy a new one. Im one his side for once.

FOX news is bad for one reason, its known to be verry biased from a conservative viewpoint... which makes networks like NBC seem more credible to the general public

peoples distrust for FOX may lead to them believing something false reported by a rival network

Nate Whilk · 11th July 2006, 08:49 PM

Here's a link to the Youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hIe8YUw300

The guy is U. of Wisconsin instructor Kevin Barrett. He converted to Islam in 1992. Here are some choice quotes from that clip. I've bolded a couple of interesting words.

Quote:

1:05 I am convinced that 9/11 was, in fact, an inside job...I'm interested in training people how to use critical thinking skills to look at the evidence in any area and come to their own conclusions.

2:10 In the classroom I always present things in a fair and balanced manner. Outside of the classroom, when I'm an activist or a satirist, I'll tell it like it is.

2:45 I do know--I don't believe--that 9/11 was an inside job.

3:44 It's a question of science...You think it was 19 guys with boxcutters led by a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan? That's ridiculous. That's the craziest conspiracy theory of all of them.

To revise an old saying, a nut can use the words "critical thinking" and "science" for his own purposes.

Gravy · 11th July 2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Nate Whilk

Here's a link to the Youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hIe8YUw300

The guy is U. of Wisconsin instructor Kevin Barrett. He converted to Islam in 1992. Here are some choice quotes from that clip. I've bolded a couple of interesting words.

To revise an old saying, a nut can use the words "critical thinking" and "science" for his own purposes.

Jim Fetzer TEACHES critical thinking.

Regnad Kcin · 11th July 2006, 09:27 PM

Another example of why these kinds of topics can't be properly debated on just any forum. Podcasts also come to mind, for some reason.

Axiom_Blade · 11th July 2006, 10:22 PM

This guy's creepy. Way more lucid than Fetzer or the Loose Changers.

And Hannity doesn't bother to ask him for evidence, or challenge him on anything. He just sits there and lamely insults him! Pathetic.

Admiral · 11th July 2006, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade

This guy's creepy. Way more lucid than Fetzer or the Loose Changers.

And Hannity doesn't bother to ask him for evidence, or challenge him on anything. He just sits there and lamely insults him! Pathetic.

There was the residue of thermite- I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy buff, could someone who knows more than I do let me know how that's debunked, or whether the finding was questionable in the first place?

Senor_Pointy · 11th July 2006, 11:28 PM

The "thermite residue" conclusion is just based on the presence of sulphur in the steel. It's suspect because there wasn't the corresponding aluminum oxide or pure iron you'd expect to accompany the sulfur, and the sulphur is much more easily explained by the huge amount of gypsum sheetrock in the towers.

At least that's what I've heard.

gumboot · 12th July 2006, 04:56 AM

Not to mention thermite is a really dumb way of demolishing a building...

-Andrew

delphi_ote · 12th July 2006, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by gumboot

Not to mention thermite is a really dumb way of demolishing a building...

-Andrew

Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite.

Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite.

gumboot · 12th July 2006, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite.

Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite.

Isn't failure of internal logic a beautiful thing?

-Andrew

valis · 12th July 2006, 06:04 AM

I think the same person was discussed on O'Relilly last night as well.

Minor derail as to Fox News Bashing: All news outlets are staffed by humans and are therefore biased. As the news consumer you have to make up your own mind. The news outlets are there to sell advertising not deliver same sacred unbiased truth.

Of course you as the viewer are human and therefore also biased in your interpratation of what is presented.

Hellbound · 12th July 2006, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Admiral

There was the residue of thermite- I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy buff, could someone who knows more than I do let me know how that's debunked, or whether the finding was questionable in the first place?

Just to add to the explanations already given, only 3% of thermate is composed of sulphur (with none in thermite). And, contrary to assertions, the sulphur is not an enhancer. There's a barium compund (barium nitrate, IIRC) that's the actual enhancer, and makes up about 20 to 30% of thermate. You'd also expect to see residue from this.

Luke T. · 12th July 2006, 07:48 AM

Unfortunately, none of the students who attend this class will be presented with the overwhelming evidence which completely debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.

twinstead · 12th July 2006, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

Unfortunately, none of the students who attend this class will be presented with the overwhelming evidence which completely debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.

But Barrett promised to give them both sides of the story.

I can't for the life of me understand why you don't believe him

dubfan · 12th July 2006, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Senor_Pointy

The "thermite residue" conclusion is just based on the presence of sulphur in the steel. It's suspect because there wasn't the corresponding aluminum oxide or pure iron you'd expect to accompany the sulfur, and the sulphur is much more easily explained by the huge amount of gypsum sheetrock in the towers.

At least that's what I've heard.

That's correct. The only thing I would add is that there are other potential sources of sulfur apart from the wallboard that have not been ruled out. The wallboard is just the most obvious and most plentiful source.

Also, see Huntsman's post for the other compounds you'd expect to find in addition to the sulfur, if you were really at evidence of thermate.

DavidJames · 12th July 2006, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by dubfan

That's correct. The only thing I would add is that there are other potential sources of sulfur apart from the wallboard that have not been ruled out. The wallboard is just the most obvious and most plentiful source.

Also, see Huntsman's post for the other compounds you'd expect to find in addition to the sulfur, if you were really at evidence of thermate.

I quoted Huntsman's comments in the termite thread, no real responses.

Belz... · 12th July 2006, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Jim Fetzer TEACHES critical thinking.

You'd think someone thinks his expertise gives him WAY too much authority on the matter.

Kinda like a psychology teacher of mine who chimed for a few hours on the reality of subliminal messages and advertisement.

Belz... · 12th July 2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite.

Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite.

Doesn't thermite kinda just "eat" through metal, producing a fair amount of sparks ?

Well, kinda looked that way in the video I saw.

ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th July 2006, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Doesn't thermite kinda just "eat" through metal, producing a fair amount of sparks ?

Well, kinda looked that way in the video I saw.

ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me.

Thermate is thermite with sulfer and/or barium nitrate added iirc.

Kiwiwriter · 12th July 2006, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Hannity has a tendency to bring lightweights on his show to make himself look good. During the Cal governor recall, he had Gary Coleman on, and proceeded to hit him with all these big political issues (Coleman was on the ballot).

Of course, no one legitimate took Gary Coleman seriously in the first place and wouldn't waste their time. But Hannity really showed him! Great, Sean, you are so clever. Be sure to put it on your resume ("More politically savvy than Gary Coleman")

He's like the 6th grader who likes to prove how tough he is by beating up 3rd graders. But when the 8th graders show up...

He was the only guy with the stature for the job...after you consider previous occupants Ronald Reagan and Jerry Brown.

Pardalis · 12th July 2006, 10:44 AM

Arkan, is your avatar a ninja Larry David?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th July 2006, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Arkan, is your avatar a ninja Larry David?

Nope. It is Lee Van Cleef from the TV series "The Master"

Kaarjuus · 12th July 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by valis

Minor derail as to Fox News Bashing: All news outlets are staffed by humans and are therefore biased. As the news consumer you have to make up your own mind. The news outlets are there to sell advertising not deliver same sacred unbiased truth.

I always found it extremely amusing when Fox News fans called CNN a leftist channel. And then I realized that from their point of view, this is actually correct. When you are on the far right, then everything else is to the left.

60hzxtl · 12th July 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me.

I still say it was Termites.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 12th July 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by 60hzxtl

I still say it was Termites.

No, it was Hermits.

DavidJames · 12th July 2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by 60hzxtl

I still say it was Termites.

If you feed Sulphur to Termites do they become Termates?

SirPhilip · 12th July 2006, 12:05 PM

Double post..

SirPhilip · 12th July 2006, 12:06 PM

In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes. Your interpretation never fell far from the consenus in class either. It was true, life made a comforting deal of sense. Looking back, I would have never guessed that a decade later, it would be such a rare life skill in American society. With that said, a lot of teachers around this country must feel like failures today. Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions:

1) Would they orchestrate the murder of American citizens as a stepping stone to dominating the middle east?

2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up.

Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted.

Extraordinary criminal versatility requires extraordinary big jumps to conclusions.

Pardalis · 12th July 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by SirPhilip

In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes. Your interpretation never fell far from the consenus in class either. It was true, life made a comforting deal of sense. Looking back, I would have never guessed that a decade later, it would be such a rare life skill in American society. With that said, a lot of teachers around this country must feel like failures today. Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions:

1) Would they orchestrate the murder of American citizens as a stepping stone to dominating the middle east?

2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up.

Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted.

Extraordinary criminal versatility requires extraordinary big jumps to conclusions.

I guess you didn't progress beyond elementary school to make so many fallacies in one post.

Senor_Pointy · 12th July 2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

I guess you didn't progress beyond elementary school to make so many fallacies in one post.

Now that's not nice. In defense of SirPhilip, those conditions do warrant speculation.

Enough speculation to realize all available evidence points to the official conclusion.

Belz... · 12th July 2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

Thermate is thermite with sulfer and/or barium nitrate added iirc.

AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

< runs around, screaming >

Belz... · 12th July 2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

Nope. It is Lee Van Cleef from the TV series "The Master"

NEAT! Between Bob_Kark's Eli Wallach, your Lee Van Cleef and another poster's Clint Eastwood, we have the entire trio!!

azazal · 12th July 2006, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

NEAT! Between Bob_Kark's Eli Wallach, your Lee Van Cleef and another poster's Clint Eastwood, we have the entire trio!!

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.. why does that sound like it would fit as the title for a "debate" with 9/11 CT nutcases??

Hellbound · 12th July 2006, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

Thermate is thermite with sulfer and/or barium nitrate added iirc.

Just to be pendantic, Thermate is the specific name for the formulation used by the U.S. military, and is composed of thermite (68.7%), barium nitrate (29%), sulphur (2%), and fillers (0.3%). It is used as an incendiary device (the Barium nitrate increases the incendiary effect) and can be used for welding.

Thermite, buy itself, has a small radius of effect and burns with little flame. Thermate is specially formulated to increases the flame and burn radius.

11th July 2006, 02:35 PM	#1
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,005	9/11 denialist on "Hannity and Colmes" http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/07...n-hannity.html
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,005

11th July 2006, 03:27 PM	#2
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 18,554	This guy is thick. Accusing Fox, on the air, of spouting venim to the world. What a **ick.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

11th July 2006, 03:40 PM	#4
Regnad Kcin Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 4,729	How's this for a conspiracy theory?
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

11th July 2006, 03:45 PM	#5
Johnny C. Scholar Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 79	Originally Posted by Pardalis This guy is thick. Accusing Fox, on the air, of spouting venim to the world. What a **ick. I cant say I disagree with that. Fox News is the worst cable news network in America. Hannity ripped that guy a new one. Im one his side for once.
Johnny C. Scholar Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 79

11th July 2006, 04:04 PM	#6
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,464	Hannity has a tendency to bring lightweights on his show to make himself look good. During the Cal governor recall, he had Gary Coleman on, and proceeded to hit him with all these big political issues (Coleman was on the ballot). Of course, no one legitimate took Gary Coleman seriously in the first place and wouldn't waste their time. But Hannity really showed him! Great, Sean, you are so clever. Be sure to put it on your resume ("More politically savvy than Gary Coleman") He's like the 6th grader who likes to prove how tough he is by beating up 3rd graders. But when the 8th graders show up...
pgwenthold Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,464	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

11th July 2006, 03:38 PM	#3
Mancman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 952	He thinks the attacks in Madrid, London, Bali and all the suicide bombings in Iraq are all false flags too. What a surprise! (Not)

11th July 2006, 04:06 PM	#7
Sal The Butcher Scholar Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 105	Originally Posted by Johnny C. I cant say I disagree with that. Fox News is the worst cable news network in America. Hannity ripped that guy a new one. Im one his side for once. FOX news is bad for one reason, its known to be verry biased from a conservative viewpoint... which makes networks like NBC seem more credible to the general public peoples distrust for FOX may lead to them believing something false reported by a rival network
Sal The Butcher Scholar Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 105

11th July 2006, 08:49 PM	#8
Nate Whilk Student Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 25	Here's a link to the Youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hIe8YUw300 The guy is U. of Wisconsin instructor Kevin Barrett. He converted to Islam in 1992. Here are some choice quotes from that clip. I've bolded a couple of interesting words. Quote: 1:05 I am convinced that 9/11 was, in fact, an inside job...I'm interested in training people how to use critical thinking skills to look at the evidence in any area and come to their own conclusions. 2:10 In the classroom I always present things in a fair and balanced manner. Outside of the classroom, when I'm an activist or a satirist, I'll tell it like it is. 2:45 I do know--I don't believe--that 9/11 was an inside job. 3:44 It's a question of science...You think it was 19 guys with boxcutters led by a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan? That's ridiculous. That's the craziest conspiracy theory of all of them. To revise an old saying, a nut can use the words "critical thinking" and "science" for his own purposes.
Nate Whilk Student Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 25	__________________ I can bend minds with my spoon. Last edited by Nate Whilk; 11th July 2006 at 08:58 PM. Reason: added link to Youtube page

11th July 2006, 09:16 PM	#9
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by Nate Whilk Here's a link to the Youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hIe8YUw300 The guy is U. of Wisconsin instructor Kevin Barrett. He converted to Islam in 1992. Here are some choice quotes from that clip. I've bolded a couple of interesting words. To revise an old saying, a nut can use the words "critical thinking" and "science" for his own purposes. Jim Fetzer TEACHES critical thinking.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

11th July 2006, 09:27 PM	#10
Regnad Kcin Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 4,729	Another example of why these kinds of topics can't be properly debated on just any forum. Podcasts also come to mind, for some reason.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

11th July 2006, 10:22 PM	#11
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,052	This guy's creepy. Way more lucid than Fetzer or the Loose Changers. And Hannity doesn't bother to ask him for evidence, or challenge him on anything. He just sits there and lamely insults him! Pathetic.

11th July 2006, 11:16 PM	#12
Admiral Commander of the Fleet of Justice Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 770	Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade This guy's creepy. Way more lucid than Fetzer or the Loose Changers. And Hannity doesn't bother to ask him for evidence, or challenge him on anything. He just sits there and lamely insults him! Pathetic. There was the residue of thermite- I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy buff, could someone who knows more than I do let me know how that's debunked, or whether the finding was questionable in the first place?
	__________________ "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner." -Locke, from Lost

11th July 2006, 11:28 PM	#13
Senor_Pointy Fruity Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sideways Posts: 332	The "thermite residue" conclusion is just based on the presence of sulphur in the steel. It's suspect because there wasn't the corresponding aluminum oxide or pure iron you'd expect to accompany the sulfur, and the sulphur is much more easily explained by the huge amount of gypsum sheetrock in the towers. At least that's what I've heard.

12th July 2006, 04:56 AM	#14
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,396	Not to mention thermite is a really dumb way of demolishing a building... -Andrew
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,396	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. "My see-saw analogy renders any need for "calculations" moot." - Lyte Trip

12th July 2006, 05:06 AM	#15
delphi_ote needs a drink. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,924	Originally Posted by gumboot Not to mention thermite is a really dumb way of demolishing a building... -Andrew Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite. Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite.
	__________________ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

12th July 2006, 05:08 AM	#16
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,396	Originally Posted by delphi_ote Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite. Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite. Isn't failure of internal logic a beautiful thing? -Andrew
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,396	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. "My see-saw analogy renders any need for "calculations" moot." - Lyte Trip

12th July 2006, 06:04 AM	#17
valis Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: sebastian. fl Posts: 578	I think the same person was discussed on O'Relilly last night as well. Minor derail as to Fox News Bashing: All news outlets are staffed by humans and are therefore biased. As the news consumer you have to make up your own mind. The news outlets are there to sell advertising not deliver same sacred unbiased truth. Of course you as the viewer are human and therefore also biased in your interpratation of what is presented.
	__________________ After the rapture you can use my pool, if it isn't boiling. Yo soy un disco quebrado Yo tengo chicle en el cerebro

12th July 2006, 07:01 AM	#18
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Admiral There was the residue of thermite- I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy buff, could someone who knows more than I do let me know how that's debunked, or whether the finding was questionable in the first place? Just to add to the explanations already given, only 3% of thermate is composed of sulphur (with none in thermite). And, contrary to assertions, the sulphur is not an enhancer. There's a barium compund (barium nitrate, IIRC) that's the actual enhancer, and makes up about 20 to 30% of thermate. You'd also expect to see residue from this.
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

12th July 2006, 07:48 AM	#19
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Unfortunately, none of the students who attend this class will be presented with the overwhelming evidence which completely debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

12th July 2006, 07:54 AM	#20
twinstead Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 5,952	Originally Posted by Luke T. Unfortunately, none of the students who attend this class will be presented with the overwhelming evidence which completely debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories. But Barrett promised to give them both sides of the story. I can't for the life of me understand why you don't believe him

12th July 2006, 08:12 AM	#21
dubfan Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	Originally Posted by Senor_Pointy The "thermite residue" conclusion is just based on the presence of sulphur in the steel. It's suspect because there wasn't the corresponding aluminum oxide or pure iron you'd expect to accompany the sulfur, and the sulphur is much more easily explained by the huge amount of gypsum sheetrock in the towers. At least that's what I've heard. That's correct. The only thing I would add is that there are other potential sources of sulfur apart from the wallboard that have not been ruled out. The wallboard is just the most obvious and most plentiful source. Also, see Huntsman's post for the other compounds you'd expect to find in addition to the sulfur, if you were really at evidence of thermate.
dubfan Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	__________________ "I'd rather be Locked up with those throat slitting terrorists, then with JREF." -- e-dog@Loose Change "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into." -- Jonathan Swift

12th July 2006, 08:19 AM	#22
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,562	Originally Posted by dubfan That's correct. The only thing I would add is that there are other potential sources of sulfur apart from the wallboard that have not been ruled out. The wallboard is just the most obvious and most plentiful source. Also, see Huntsman's post for the other compounds you'd expect to find in addition to the sulfur, if you were really at evidence of thermate. I quoted Huntsman's comments in the termite thread, no real responses.
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,562	__________________ Talk about quality audio/video/home theater on a budget here. Blogging on my hobbies here.

12th July 2006, 10:28 AM	#23
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a multiverse of my own creation Posts: 15,537	Originally Posted by Gravy Jim Fetzer TEACHES critical thinking. You'd think someone thinks his expertise gives him WAY too much authority on the matter. Kinda like a psychology teacher of mine who chimed for a few hours on the reality of subliminal messages and advertisement.
	__________________ - "To kill and be king, is that all?" - "Perhaps not even that." -- Uther and Merlin, Excalibur Current avatar from Jaestudio.com

12th July 2006, 10:30 AM	#24
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a multiverse of my own creation Posts: 15,537	Originally Posted by delphi_ote Especially a building as big as the WTC. I would think that would take a hell of a lot of thermite. Also, there are no explosions with thermite. So someone rambling about squibs and loud booms that day can't also ramble about thermite. Doesn't thermite kinda just "eat" through metal, producing a fair amount of sparks ? Well, kinda looked that way in the video I saw. ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me.
	__________________ - "To kill and be king, is that all?" - "Perhaps not even that." -- Uther and Merlin, Excalibur Current avatar from Jaestudio.com

12th July 2006, 10:36 AM	#25
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by Belz... Doesn't thermite kinda just "eat" through metal, producing a fair amount of sparks ? Well, kinda looked that way in the video I saw. ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me. Thermate is thermite with sulfer and/or barium nitrate added iirc.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th July 2006, 10:40 AM	#26
Kiwiwriter Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Newark, NJ Posts: 1,110	The Honorable Gary Coleman Originally Posted by pgwenthold Hannity has a tendency to bring lightweights on his show to make himself look good. During the Cal governor recall, he had Gary Coleman on, and proceeded to hit him with all these big political issues (Coleman was on the ballot). Of course, no one legitimate took Gary Coleman seriously in the first place and wouldn't waste their time. But Hannity really showed him! Great, Sean, you are so clever. Be sure to put it on your resume ("More politically savvy than Gary Coleman") He's like the 6th grader who likes to prove how tough he is by beating up 3rd graders. But when the 8th graders show up... He was the only guy with the stature for the job...after you consider previous occupants Ronald Reagan and Jerry Brown.
	__________________ "When you hate, the only one that suffers is you because most of the people you hate don't know it and the rest don't care." -- Medgar Evers "My intensity is intense." -- Roger Clemens Check out my writing at http://www.usswashington.com/dl_index.htm and my blog at http://davidhlippman.wildbillguarnere.com

12th July 2006, 10:44 AM	#27
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 18,554	Arkan, is your avatar a ninja Larry David?
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

12th July 2006, 10:54 AM	#28
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by Pardalis Arkan, is your avatar a ninja Larry David? Nope. It is Lee Van Cleef from the TV series "The Master"
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th July 2006, 11:19 AM	#29
Kaarjuus Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 250	Originally Posted by valis Minor derail as to Fox News Bashing: All news outlets are staffed by humans and are therefore biased. As the news consumer you have to make up your own mind. The news outlets are there to sell advertising not deliver same sacred unbiased truth. I always found it extremely amusing when Fox News fans called CNN a leftist channel. And then I realized that from their point of view, this is actually correct. When you are on the far right, then everything else is to the left.
Kaarjuus Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 250

12th July 2006, 11:54 AM	#30
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 698	Originally Posted by Belz... ETA: And is it "thermite" or "thermate" ? Huntsman's confusing me. I still say it was Termites.
	__________________ Loose Change, own all the versions!

12th July 2006, 11:56 AM	#31
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by 60hzxtl I still say it was Termites. No, it was Hermits.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

12th July 2006, 12:00 PM	#32
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,562	Originally Posted by 60hzxtl I still say it was Termites. If you feed Sulphur to Termites do they become Termates?
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,562	__________________ Talk about quality audio/video/home theater on a budget here. Blogging on my hobbies here.

12th July 2006, 12:05 PM	#33
SirPhilip Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens, Ohio Posts: 2,444	Bah. Double post..

12th July 2006, 12:06 PM	#34
SirPhilip Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens, Ohio Posts: 2,444	(Cold) Reading Skills - Are Our Children Learning? In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes. Your interpretation never fell far from the consenus in class either. It was true, life made a comforting deal of sense. Looking back, I would have never guessed that a decade later, it would be such a rare life skill in American society. With that said, a lot of teachers around this country must feel like failures today. Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions: 1) Would they orchestrate the murder of American citizens as a stepping stone to dominating the middle east? 2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up. Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted. Extraordinary criminal versatility requires extraordinary big jumps to conclusions.

12th July 2006, 12:11 PM	#35
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 18,554	Originally Posted by SirPhilip In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes. Your interpretation never fell far from the consenus in class either. It was true, life made a comforting deal of sense. Looking back, I would have never guessed that a decade later, it would be such a rare life skill in American society. With that said, a lot of teachers around this country must feel like failures today. Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions: 1) Would they orchestrate the murder of American citizens as a stepping stone to dominating the middle east? 2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up. Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted. Extraordinary criminal versatility requires extraordinary big jumps to conclusions. I guess you didn't progress beyond elementary school to make so many fallacies in one post.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos