911 CT Pentagon Strike Video on Google

Mr. Scott · 17th July 2006, 09:18 PM

Pentagon stike: Where is the plane? Where are the videos?

Has this five-minute video been discussed here on the JREF forum? Are all its claims disputed?

Regnad Kcin · 17th July 2006, 09:25 PM

1) Yes.

2) What "claims?"

What would you like to know?

empeake · 17th July 2006, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

Pentagon stike: Where is the plane? Where are the videos?

Has this five-minute video been discussed here on the JREF forum? Are all its claims disputed?

Not this particular video, as far as I know, but it doesn't offer anything that hasn't been discussed ad nauseum in the Loose Change threads:

Part I can be found here:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102
Part II can be found here:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57424
Part III can be found here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618

You may also want to look at the 9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide, particularly Section II: AA Flight 77 and the Pentagon. There you will find all the answers you are looking for.

Mr. Scott · 18th July 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

1) Yes.

2) What "claims?"

What would you like to know?

I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind:

1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage?
2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail?
3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC?

dubfan · 18th July 2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind:

1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage?
2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail?
3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC?

Oooh boy.

Welcome to our strange, strange little world.

empeake · 18th July 2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage?

No. The hole is large enough.

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail?

See above.

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations.

Most conspiracy theorists will base their arguments on the same grounds as the Loose Change movie. If you want to debate them, you'll find everything you need at the links I posted above and at 911myths.com.

Gravy · 18th July 2006, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind:

1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage?
2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail?
3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC?

Hi Mr. Scott. In brief:
1) No.
2) Huge damage from the wings. Less from the tail. Who says the tail was vertical by the time it hit the concrete?
3) The fires burned well into the next day. You're looking at the exterior of the building. In addition, the fires at the Pentagon were fought. Those at the WTC were not.

I recommend starting with the ASCE's Pentagon Building Performance Report, then moving on to the links above.

Psi Baba · 18th July 2006, 02:01 PM

I don't have figures (dimensions, weights, shear strengths, etc.) but airplanes are much flimsier things than a lot of people realize, and the Pentagon is not your typical office building--it's more like a concrete bunker. The plane was pulverized and/or shredded on impact. Do these nuts really expect to see a cartoon-like outline in the shape of an airplane neatly punched through the wall?

Class · 18th July 2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Psi Baba

I don't have figures (dimensions, weights, shear strengths, etc.) but airplanes are much flimsier things than a lot of people realize, and the Pentagon is not your typical office building--it's more like a concrete bunker. The plane was pulverized and/or shredded on impact. Do these nuts really expect to see a cartoon-like outline in the shape of an airplane neatly punched through the wall?

Sadly enough, yes.

These are also the same people who also question how a flimsy little airplane made of aluminum could cut through the WTC steel beams.

Overman · 18th July 2006, 02:52 PM

Oh no....here we go again!!!

I drop back in at post #438...

Mr. Scott · 18th July 2006, 04:05 PM

You guys are very kind to have shown me some useful links. I had no idea where to parachute into the 10,260 posts (literally) in the Loose Change thread series. Thanks!

Arkan_Wolfshade · 18th July 2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

You guys are very kind to have shown me some useful links. I had no idea where to parachute into the 10,260 posts (literally) in the Loose Change thread series. Thanks!

Gravy's been kind enough to help out with that too

Quote:

JREF 9-11 index download: http://tinyurl.com/p5ksb

17th July 2006, 09:18 PM	#1
Mr. Scott Under the Amazing One's Wing Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 930	911 CT Pentagon Strike Video on Google Pentagon stike: Where is the plane? Where are the videos? Has this five-minute video been discussed here on the JREF forum? Are all its claims disputed?
	__________________ Why is the world so different from what we think it is? - Ting-Ting, from the film Yi Yi.

17th July 2006, 09:25 PM	#2
Regnad Kcin Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 4,729	1) Yes. 2) What "claims?" What would you like to know?
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

17th July 2006, 09:30 PM	#3
empeake Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Querétaro Posts: 505	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott Pentagon stike: Where is the plane? Where are the videos? Has this five-minute video been discussed here on the JREF forum? Are all its claims disputed? Not this particular video, as far as I know, but it doesn't offer anything that hasn't been discussed ad nauseum in the Loose Change threads: Part I can be found here:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102 Part II can be found here:http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57424 Part III can be found here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618 You may also want to look at the 9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide, particularly Section II: AA Flight 77 and the Pentagon. There you will find all the answers you are looking for.
	__________________ Cogito ergo dunno

18th July 2006, 01:28 PM	#5
dubfan Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind: 1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage? 2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail? 3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC? Oooh boy. Welcome to our strange, strange little world.
dubfan Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	__________________ "I'd rather be Locked up with those throat slitting terrorists, then with JREF." -- e-dog@Loose Change "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into." -- Jonathan Swift

18th July 2006, 01:28 PM	#6
empeake Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Querétaro Posts: 505	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott 1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage? No. The hole is large enough. Originally Posted by Mr. Scott 2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail? See above. Originally Posted by Mr. Scott I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Most conspiracy theorists will base their arguments on the same grounds as the Loose Change movie. If you want to debate them, you'll find everything you need at the links I posted above and at 911myths.com.
	__________________ Cogito ergo dunno Last edited by empeake; 18th July 2006 at 01:31 PM.

18th July 2006, 12:56 PM	#4
Mr. Scott Under the Amazing One's Wing Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 930	Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin 1) Yes. 2) What "claims?" What would you like to know? I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind: 1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage? 2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail? 3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC?
	__________________ Why is the world so different from what we think it is? - Ting-Ting, from the film Yi Yi.

18th July 2006, 01:34 PM	#7
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott I'm not a CT but I do debate them sometimes and need to know the prevailing refutations. Three come to mind: 1) Is the hole in the Pentagon really too small to have fit the plane's fuselage? 2) Why no apparent damage from the wings and tail? 3) The photos of the edge of Pentagon collapse seem to show unsinged furniture and paper. Why was there apparently so little fire damage to the Pentagon compared to the WTC? Hi Mr. Scott. In brief: 1) No. 2) Huge damage from the wings. Less from the tail. Who says the tail was vertical by the time it hit the concrete? 3) The fires burned well into the next day. You're looking at the exterior of the building. In addition, the fires at the Pentagon were fought. Those at the WTC were not. I recommend starting with the ASCE's Pentagon Building Performance Report, then moving on to the links above.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

18th July 2006, 02:01 PM	#8
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: On a recumbent bike Posts: 2,202	I don't have figures (dimensions, weights, shear strengths, etc.) but airplanes are much flimsier things than a lot of people realize, and the Pentagon is not your typical office building--it's more like a concrete bunker. The plane was pulverized and/or shredded on impact. Do these nuts really expect to see a cartoon-like outline in the shape of an airplane neatly punched through the wall?
	__________________ "I was afraid of this enormous emptiness, but my personal view is that when we die, we die, and we go from a state of something to a state of absolute nothingness; and I don’t believe for a second that there’s anything above or beyond or anything like that; and this makes me enormously secure." -- Ingmar Bergman

18th July 2006, 02:10 PM	#9
Class Meatball Skeptic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: A few miles south of the 38th parallel, sipping on a dry martini Posts: 257	Originally Posted by Psi Baba I don't have figures (dimensions, weights, shear strengths, etc.) but airplanes are much flimsier things than a lot of people realize, and the Pentagon is not your typical office building--it's more like a concrete bunker. The plane was pulverized and/or shredded on impact. Do these nuts really expect to see a cartoon-like outline in the shape of an airplane neatly punched through the wall? Sadly enough, yes. These are also the same people who also question how a flimsy little airplane made of aluminum could cut through the WTC steel beams.
	Last edited by Class; 18th July 2006 at 03:17 PM.

18th July 2006, 02:52 PM	#10
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,607	Oh no....here we go again!!! I drop back in at post #438...
	__________________ 'The Evolution EP' on Amazon! Or iTunes!!!

18th July 2006, 04:05 PM	#11
Mr. Scott Under the Amazing One's Wing Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 930	You guys are very kind to have shown me some useful links. I had no idea where to parachute into the 10,260 posts (literally) in the Loose Change thread series. Thanks!
	__________________ Why is the world so different from what we think it is? - Ting-Ting, from the film Yi Yi.

18th July 2006, 04:07 PM	#12
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott You guys are very kind to have shown me some useful links. I had no idea where to parachute into the 10,260 posts (literally) in the Loose Change thread series. Thanks! Gravy's been kind enough to help out with that too Quote: JREF 9-11 index download: http://tinyurl.com/p5ksb
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.