9-11 Conspiracy La La From Rockstars

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 11:52 AM

This past Monday (July 17, 2006), Rasputina -- a cello-based band very popular in the alternative and Goth music crowd -- played here in Albany, NY.

Although I couldn't make the show due to work-related responsibilities, several of my friends did go and saw the entire set.

I was informed the following day that towards the end of the set, the lead-singer and primary song-writer, Meloria Creager made the claim that "Bush orchestrated 9-11 disaster" immediately before going into a song "inspired by a speech made by Osama Bin Laden". I have confirmed this occurance with 3 individuals. This show was sponsored by WAMC -- the local public radio station and it was held at their auditorium.

All of my friends were glad I wasn't in attendance that night. I would have made a stink and asked for proof and that sort of a thing wouldn't have been expected.

I wonder if Bush invented the form of "free fall" which supposedly is observed in the collapse. Furthermore, is it really his face -- and not Satan's -- which was "clearly" seen in the plumes of smoke.

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by baron_army

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

Well, Rage Against the Machine and Chumbawumba both gleefully support a guy who undeniably shot a cop in the back. (Mumia-ABu-Jamal). RAM happily repeated the debunked nonsense about Mumia's trial and the claims of a frame-job.

RAM also happily supported the claim that Leonard Peltier was a 'politcal prisoner'. Leonard of course took a few pot shots at some FBI agents, and was unlucky enough to be caught after his buddies and so couldn't get off on the nonsense they did.

There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about.

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 24th July 2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

This past Monday (July 17, 2006), Rasputina -- a cello-based band very popular in the alternative and Goth music crowd -- played here in Albany, NY.

Although I couldn't make the show due to work-related responsibilities, several of my friends did go and saw the entire set.

I was informed the following day that towards the end of the set, the lead-singer and primary song-writer, Meloria Creager made the claim that "Bush orchestrated 9-11 disaster" immediately before going into a song "inspired by a speech made by Osama Bin Laden". I have confirmed this occurance with 3 individuals. This show was sponsored by WAMC -- the local public radio station and it was held at their auditorium.

All of my friends were glad I wasn't in attendance that night. I would have made a stink and asked for proof and that sort of a thing wouldn't have been expected.

I wonder if Bush invented the form of "free fall" which supposedly is observed in the collapse. Furthermore, is it really his face -- and not Satan's -- which was "clearly" seen in the plumes of smoke.

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

This reminds me of a quote I first saw in one of the forum member's signatures (Sorry, I forget who it was):

"When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the Rolling Stones as loud as I could. So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick. If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal."
-Alice Cooper

I think that sums it up beautifully.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 12:05 PM

Ooops. Wrong Thread.

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about.

I'm aware of those two examples. Rage and Chumbawumba were/are blatantly political bands with communist/anarchist leanings so the truth can be extremely irrelevant to them -- if it threatens their agenda. Rasputina, while being pretty "liberal" isn't really a political band -- at least not in my opinion.

I was thinking more of 9-11 conspiracy crap being spouted on stage.

I also wonder where they get their "information" (regardless of the conspiracy) and why are these people, at least seemingly, more gullable and willing to proclaim falsehoods as truth. Could they just be doing it to placate their audience or attract attention to themselves? G.G. Allen would threaten to kill himself on stage in an effort to draw a crowd. Could this be something like that?

senorpogo · 24th July 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine

"When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the Rolling Stones as loud as I could. So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick. If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal."
-Alice Cooper

I think that sums it up beautifully.

Amen. I've stopped listening to probably over two dozen bands in the last two years or so because of their non-stop desire to put politics, both left and right, into nearly everyone of their songs.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

Rasputina, while being pretty "liberal" isn't really a political band -- at least not in my opinion.

In all fairness, was Meloria being serious? She's kind of a wiseass on stage.

I like Rasputina, I really hope they don't go down that path.

senorpogo · 24th July 2006, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

One of the guys from Blink-182 buys into the 9/11 CTs.

Pardalis · 24th July 2006, 12:14 PM

I'm pretty sure the guys of Radiohead are rabbid CTers, especially Thom Yorke. That really bums me out, I really like their music.

karim · 24th July 2006, 12:17 PM

... At this rate the 911 CT is gonna become uncool pretty fast.

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

In all fairness, was Meloria being serious? She's kind of a wiseass on stage.

I like Rasputina, I really hope they don't go down that path.

She is quite a wise-ass. I saw them in Northampton, MA a couple of years ago and she was letting fly with all sorts of off-the-cuff jokes/insults (most of which went over the heads of the college student crowd). However, I asked everyone if they thought she was being serious and everyone I've spoken to agrees that she was being serious. However, having not been there, I can't say that for certain. I can say that everyone who I asked about this also said I would have reacted very negatively to the statement -- leading me to believe she was being serious.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

She is quite a wise-ass. I saw them in Northampton, MA a couple of years ago and she was letting fly with all sorts of off-the-cuff jokes/insults (most of which went over the heads of the college student crowd). However, I asked everyone if they thought she was being serious and everyone I've spoken to agrees that she was being serious. However, having not been there, I can't say that for certain. I can say that everyone who I asked about this also said I would have reacted very negatively to the statement -- leading me to believe she was being serious.

I have to wonder, I just haven't really heard her say *anything* on stage that was meant to be taken seriously. She's even (in a small way) poked fun at conspiracy theories. She used to have a whole list of comments used on the stage. I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I have to wonder, I just haven't really heard her say *anything* on stage that was meant to be taken seriously. She's even (in a small way) poked fun at conspiracy theories. She used to have a whole list of comments used on the stage. I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.

Whether or not it was meant as satire or to be mocking, the crowd took it seriously. I'm told they applauded and cheered the statement -- making my fairly level-headed friends uncomfortable.

chipmunk stew · 24th July 2006, 12:23 PM

Cake, too.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

Whether or not it was meant as satire or to be mocking, the crowd took it seriously. I'm told they applauded and cheered the statement -- making my fairly level-headed friends uncomfortable.

*Sigh!*

Maybe she needs a little talk with Rodney!

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Cake, too.

Could you tell me where their reference is to the 9-11 bilge? That's a long page and I didn't see anything when I scanned through it.

baron_army · 24th July 2006, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

*Sigh!*

Maybe she needs a little talk with Rodney!

I find it funny he reviews one of their albums on his "What to Listen To" page (I can't put up links yet).

How We Quit The Forest is a CD that not only stands as a high-water mark in women's Rock, but also in human achievement. Screw Stonehenge and the not-so-Great Pyramid - we need to make sure that this CD lands in the claw-like hands of our six-eyed, semi-aquatic, descendents.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

I find it funny he reviews one of their albums on his "What to Listen To" page (I can't put up links yet).

How We Quit The Forest is a CD that not only stands as a high-water mark in women's Rock, but also in human achievement. Screw Stonehenge and the not-so-Great Pyramid - we need to make sure that this CD lands in the claw-like hands of our six-eyed, semi-aquatic, descendents.

Indeed. More importantly, Rodney is about as anit-conspiracy as you can get. Between Awww, Screw Mumia and his rant against students wearing Che shirts was also magnificent. But hey, this guy gave us the classic conspiracy mocking songs 'Stuart' and 'Peter Bazooka'. He's got a forum there, maybe you might bring this to his attention.

Bronze Dog · 24th July 2006, 12:49 PM

At least you won't find Ryan and me doing anything like this.

chipmunk stew · 24th July 2006, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

Could you tell me where their reference is to the 9-11 bilge? That's a long page and I didn't see anything when I scanned through it.

I could've sworn I saw a link to the Loose Change video a while back. Perhaps not...I can't find it now.

But the Northwoods Document is on May 19, and there's an NWO paranoia piece on June 15.

Maybe they're not CTs, after all.

They appear to be knee-jerk leftists. Perhaps that's as far as they go.

ktesibios · 24th July 2006, 01:05 PM

Having "Operation the Cheese Stands Alone" suddenly recalled to my mind very nearly made me spew coffee all over Little Elvis. It's not nice to sneak up on a guy's sense of humor like that, Kookbreaker.

The tracking sessions for Stoney's Extra Stout (Pig) were the most fun I've ever had in the studio, and probably the most fun I've ever had while wearing clothes.

kookbreaker · 24th July 2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by ktesibios

Having "Operation the Cheese Stands Alone" suddenly recalled to my mind very nearly made me spew coffee all over Little Elvis. It's not nice to sneak up on a guy's sense of humor like that, Kookbreaker.

That song and Stuart should be required listening for any Skeptic, period.

"They DON'T KNOW, what the QUEERS are DOING to the SOIL!"

jon · 24th July 2006, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about.

Eminem, mos def etc. have done a '9/11 truth' track

- http://www.911truthla.org/audio/binl...eenlantern.mp3 and http://www.911truthla.org/ (btw, track does have swearing - shock

- so don't play if you don't want swearing...and website plays an annoying voice talking at you - so don't go there is you don't want that...)

Track's not bad, either

gumboot · 24th July 2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by baron_army

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

I try very hard to avoid knowing the political stance of most filmmakers, actors, and musicians I like. I stick to their art.

It would be too disappointing otherwise. So many of them seem to be complete pratts in la la land who honestly think their little album will affect the next election or whatever.

Right.

So while I've never personally heard of groups that believed 9/11 CT stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if some of my favourite groups were revealed to be hardcore 9/11 CTers.

It's all a bit sad. I just stick my fingers in my ears and go "ne-na ne-na" until the song starts.

-Andrew

R.Mackey · 24th July 2006, 08:40 PM

Yup.

I also think you guys are taking this too hard. Let's just think, for a moment, how many of our favorite artists are paragons of virtue? How many musicians don't have personal lives haunted by drugs, thuggery, drugs, statutory rape, drugs, petty squabbling over release rights, drugs, or drugs? Not too many, at least in my record collection. Way less than half.

Isaac Hayes remains one of my all-time favorite artists. This is unblemished by the thought of him being in the thrall of L. Ron Hubbard (nothing less than a tragedy).

Play it again, Sam.

joobie · 25th July 2006, 12:17 AM

a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination.
b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you.

chipmunk stew · 25th July 2006, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by jon

Eminem, mos def etc. have done a '9/11 truth' track

- http://www.911truthla.org/audio/binl...eenlantern.mp3 and http://www.911truthla.org/ (btw, track does have swearing - shock

- so don't play if you don't want swearing...and website plays an annoying voice talking at you - so don't go there is you don't want that...)

Track's not bad, either

This is consistent with Immortal Technique's MO.
I think the Eminem bit is a sample. It's hard to say whether or not the Mos Def chorus is without seeing production credits.

"Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects"...uh, yeah, no s

t...was there any project housing at the WTC?

"...so I'm strapped like Lee Malvo, holding the sniper rifle--these bullets will touch your kids..."
Charming.

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 25th July 2006, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by joobie

a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination.
b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you.

OK, consider this scenario:
1) You really like this band
2) You spend a lot of your money on their concerts/albums
3) This band donates tons of money to Scientology
4) You hate Scientology

Are you not indirectly giving some of your money to Scientology? I don't lay awake at night wondering where money I spent is going, but at the same time I have a difficult time completely separating an artist from their beliefs. Especially when I'm giving this artist my money.

chillzero · 25th July 2006, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by joobie

a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination.
b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you.

Well, this was my initial reaction as well, but I have to reconsider. Because - I'm a glam chick. Always was. Love Marc Bolan, Sweet, all that stuff.

I was a major Gary Glitter fan for many many many years. Top of my list, and his stage gigs were brilliant to attend.

Now, he makes me feel ill. I can't bear to even think about they joy he used to bring me. I detest him on a level that should be reserved for people known to me, and involved in my personal life, not complete strangers. I would never ever take any action that I thought would bring him any extra income, or give him comfort in thinking he had my support or good will.

So yes, sometimes we can alter our opinion of people we initially respect in one arena, due to their beliefs and/or actions.

kookbreaker · 25th July 2006, 05:55 AM

Same here, I enjoyed a few Chumbawumba songs and I would care what their basic politics are. Everyone has the right to their politcal opinions, even if I consider them silly.

However, when they started donating to the defense of Mumia Abu Jamal, a guy who shot a cop int he back and somehow became a cause du jour among the less clueful leftists I got offended. This guy shot a cop in my town, he shot him in the back and then in the face, and now some buckethead from overseas is going to give his defense more money to pump out lies in the media that they dare not use in court for fear of being laughed out of it? Sorry, but I get mad.

As things stand, I will likely still listen to Rasputina, since her comments seem closer to the border between LIHOP and MIHOP than anything loose change or the 'Scholars' have come up with. Maybe someday she'll get a clue. Hey, if Spielberg can say he thinks that UFOs are probably all nonsense, anything can happen.

WildCat · 25th July 2006, 05:56 AM

Feh. Goth is all about divorcing yourself from reality and living in a world of vampires, witches, warlocks and mythical evil beings of all sorts. Why not throw in another mythical evil beast - the shadow world gov't that brought down the WTC, killed Kennedy, controls the world's resources and basically micromanages every aspect of everyones life so efficiently that you don't even know it?

It's just another vampire in their world.

baron_army · 25th July 2006, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Feh. Goth is all about divorcing yourself from reality and living in a world of vampires, witches, warlocks and mythical evil beings of all sorts. Why not throw in another mythical evil beast - the shadow world gov't that brought down the WTC, killed Kennedy, controls the world's resources and basically micromanages every aspect of everyones life so efficiently that you don't even know it?

It's just another vampire in their world.

I'll have to correct you here because I am a Goth. I've been one for quite some time. I'm also a Goth musician, a Goth DJ, and a webmaster for a Goth webpage. I'm active in the "scene" on a local and regional level and I've also participated in several national Goth events (Convergence, Gothcon, etc.). Furthermore, I've DJ'd internationally.

I'd also like to add that I am gainfully employed as a scientist in the New York State Department of Health, I'm a hardcore weightlifter, and I enjoy "normal" activies like ice fishing. Furthermore, I'm a Libertarian, Skeptic, and an Agnostic (relatively non-Goth attributes)

To say Goth is about divorcing oneself from reality is nothing more than an uneducated statement based in nothing more than stereotype. Goth is not about witches, worlocks, and "mythical evil beings of all sorts". It is a musically-based subculture. While some Goths may appreciate reading literature about these things, some don't -- the same as the rest of society. While some Goths may believe they are these things -- so does a portion of the rest of society. Being a subculture, Goth is a representative of its parent culture.

One could just as easily say you described "Dungeons and Dragons" or role players.

What separates Goth from the rest of society-at-large is it has a different set of aesthetics. A broad statement, yes, but a true one none the less. While it is true we like things a tad on the "morbid" or dark side (I, myself, have skulls decorating my apartment -- but I also collect antique cameras), I've known Goths of all walks of life from 60 to your basic high-school kid trying out things to annoy their parents. I know Librarians, Computer Programers, Electrical Engineers, other Scientists, Social Workers, Nurses, Florists, and many other professions.

To imply we, because we enjoy a different type of music and may dress differently than the rest of you, are stuck in some woo woo land of escapist make-believe is nothing more than insulting. Furthermore, it adequately demonstrates your ignorance in the subject. May I suggest you pick up Goth: Identity, Style and Subculture (Dress, Body, Culture) by Paul Hodkinson at your local library. It is not one of those pulpy nonsense manuals one find out there on "how to be Goth". Instead, it is a sociological work which addresses a number of the different aspect of this subculture. I'm certain you'll be pleasently surprized by how "normal" Goths (and other subcultures for that matter) are.

baron_army · 25th July 2006, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by joobie

a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination.
b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you.

This comment reminds me of a conversation my girlfriend and I had the other day while driving home from dinner.

We some how had gotten on the subject of "extremist" attitudes and beliefs. She had commented on how she doesn't like people who hold belief so strongly (even if they are in agreement with her beliefs -- whether it be about the war in Iraq or dietary guidlines) that they alienate all others who disagree with them.

During the course of our conversation, I told her the one thing that pisses me off is the sort of evangelical, shove-it-down-your-throat absolutism these people take part in. I like making up my own mind. I like weighing the pro and cons and the various bits of evidence. When these people tell me how to think, they are trying to eliminate my free will.

Meloria Creager, by spouting her non-sense, was in effect negating the people in the audiences ability to make up their own minds. She wasn't telling them she thought Bush was responsible for 9-11 -- she was, in effect, telling them she knew he was responsible. No evidence. No discussion. She was preaching.

Some people may like that. But I certainly don't. Especially somewhere I was expecting to be entertained.

You are correct, she is only an entertainer but a lot of people don't recognize the fact that she is not an expert on middle-east relations or what have you.

baron_army · 25th July 2006, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by karim

... At this rate the 911 CT is gonna become uncool pretty fast.

One would hope but look where the JFK CT's are. This thing will never go away.

Overman · 25th July 2006, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by baron_army

While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

Are you kidding?!?

In order to get a record deal you have to be really lucky and a really good musician. Either that or really marketable. Not one of those categories has anything to do with critical thinking.

Nixon used an astrologer. WTF!?

60hzxtl · 25th July 2006, 08:10 AM

Being a singer, or an actor does not provide you with more wisdom about ANY subject. Always kep in mind that someone else writes the line that comes out of an actor's mouth, be it John Wayne or Sean Penn.

When you are on stage, the audience has already gathered, so you blubber out anything that is in your otherwise empty head, and listen for the approval.

Better to tell the future with a barometer, than a performer.

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 25th July 2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Overman

Are you kidding?!?

In order to get a record deal you have to be really lucky and a really good musician. Either that or really marketable. Not one of those categories has anything to do with critical thinking.

Nixon used an astrologer. WTF!?

I'll take that even a step further, and say that the average Rock Star is probably less intelligent than the average Joe on the street.

Most of the biggest musicians in the world worked for years and years touring in a van night after night for next to no money, in terrible working conditions, for a one in a million shot to actually become famous. Doesn't sound too smart to me.

I don't find the prevalence for woo in the entertainment industry surprising at all.

valis · 25th July 2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine

OK, consider this scenario:
1) You really like this band
2) You spend a lot of your money on their concerts/albums
3) This band donates tons of money to Scientology
4) You hate Scientology

Are you not indirectly giving some of your money to Scientology? I don't lay awake at night wondering where money I spent is going, but at the same time I have a difficult time completely separating an artist from their beliefs. Especially when I'm giving this artist my money.

Actually that describes something that happened to me. Beck is my favorite pop star type person and at one point I find out he is a Scientologist. I don't know how much money he does or does not give them but I figure it's pointless to worry about, it's like me trying to hate Futurama because Al Gore was on it. If you examine everything through a lens of 'does it meet my ideology' you can make a case that no entertainment is worthy of your attention. And you end up as a bitter old idealog.

Edit to add:
Yo soy un disco quebrado
Yo tengo chicle en el cerebro

baron_army · 28th July 2006, 06:55 AM

I've found footage of the song before which Meloria made the claim "Irrefutable proof that George W. Bush did indeed orchestrate the disasterous attacks of Sept. 11"

I can't post links yet so you'll need to go to YouTube.com and do a search on "Rasputina Albany". You'll find three songs and the one I'm referring to is called "Yellow Cake". I Googled for the "Yellow Cake" lyrics but haven't been able to find anything.

Unfortunately, the bootlegger didn't catch her making that statement. However, the song does appear to be full of all sorts of woo (from what I can make out). Judging from what they wrote, Meloria was stating the song itself was the proof of Bush's involvement.

baron_army · 28th July 2006, 07:00 AM

I just found these lyrics for "Yellow Cake" on the Rasputina Forum. I guess there had been some discussion about what the lyrics actually are.

I've cut and pasted this from the site -- which I found by Googling "Raputina Lyrics Yellow Cake":

Smoke rises from a[n]ice factory on the edge,
On the edge of the city that exists in perpetual gloom.
I snatch a note from the basket of a passing bicycle.
It says, 'Come to the power factory;
There's something waiting there for you.'
Under the windows covered by curtains all lacy & spattered with blood
We find crutches in the corner and bullets on the shelves,
Which I dismiss at once as being equivalent,
Irrelevant, in and of themselves.

Oh, won't you be there with me for it, tonight?
In this hut-to-hut witch hunt
Down the tunnels of old yellow cake?
And all the souls in the city drowning past our light
It's a choice you make
It's a fierce fire fight
It's a new mistake

cell0

Inside of the room there's a cage
There's a cage and it's made out of chain/tin & glass
It's about 40 feet high & 3 feet wide
And it was meant/made to last
It's against a brick wall in the old muddy corner of a basement tunnel room
There's a man in the cage in the old muddy corner
He's asleep, but he'll wake up soon.

24th July 2006, 11:52 AM	#1
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	9-11 Conspiracy La La From Rockstars This past Monday (July 17, 2006), Rasputina -- a cello-based band very popular in the alternative and Goth music crowd -- played here in Albany, NY. Although I couldn't make the show due to work-related responsibilities, several of my friends did go and saw the entire set. I was informed the following day that towards the end of the set, the lead-singer and primary song-writer, Meloria Creager made the claim that "Bush orchestrated 9-11 disaster" immediately before going into a song "inspired by a speech made by Osama Bin Laden". I have confirmed this occurance with 3 individuals. This show was sponsored by WAMC -- the local public radio station and it was held at their auditorium. All of my friends were glad I wasn't in attendance that night. I would have made a stink and asked for proof and that sort of a thing wouldn't have been expected. I wonder if Bush invented the form of "free fall" which supposedly is observed in the collapse. Furthermore, is it really his face -- and not Satan's -- which was "clearly" seen in the plumes of smoke. While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise.

24th July 2006, 11:58 AM	#2
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by baron_army While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise. Well, Rage Against the Machine and Chumbawumba both gleefully support a guy who undeniably shot a cop in the back. (Mumia-ABu-Jamal). RAM happily repeated the debunked nonsense about Mumia's trial and the claims of a frame-job. RAM also happily supported the claim that Leonard Peltier was a 'politcal prisoner'. Leonard of course took a few pot shots at some FBI agents, and was unlucky enough to be caught after his buddies and so couldn't get off on the nonsense they did. There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 12:01 PM	#3
Ripley Twenty-Nine Muse Join Date: May 2005 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 867	Originally Posted by baron_army This past Monday (July 17, 2006), Rasputina -- a cello-based band very popular in the alternative and Goth music crowd -- played here in Albany, NY. Although I couldn't make the show due to work-related responsibilities, several of my friends did go and saw the entire set. I was informed the following day that towards the end of the set, the lead-singer and primary song-writer, Meloria Creager made the claim that "Bush orchestrated 9-11 disaster" immediately before going into a song "inspired by a speech made by Osama Bin Laden". I have confirmed this occurance with 3 individuals. This show was sponsored by WAMC -- the local public radio station and it was held at their auditorium. All of my friends were glad I wasn't in attendance that night. I would have made a stink and asked for proof and that sort of a thing wouldn't have been expected. I wonder if Bush invented the form of "free fall" which supposedly is observed in the collapse. Furthermore, is it really his face -- and not Satan's -- which was "clearly" seen in the plumes of smoke. While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise. This reminds me of a quote I first saw in one of the forum member's signatures (Sorry, I forget who it was): "When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the Rolling Stones as loud as I could. So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick. If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal." -Alice Cooper I think that sums it up beautifully.
	__________________ Ripley 29 "Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?" "Yes I would, Kent."

24th July 2006, 12:05 PM	#4
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Ooops. Wrong Thread.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people! Last edited by kookbreaker; 24th July 2006 at 12:10 PM.

24th July 2006, 12:11 PM	#7
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by baron_army Rasputina, while being pretty "liberal" isn't really a political band -- at least not in my opinion. In all fairness, was Meloria being serious? She's kind of a wiseass on stage. I like Rasputina, I really hope they don't go down that path.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 12:07 PM	#5
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by kookbreaker There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about. I'm aware of those two examples. Rage and Chumbawumba were/are blatantly political bands with communist/anarchist leanings so the truth can be extremely irrelevant to them -- if it threatens their agenda. Rasputina, while being pretty "liberal" isn't really a political band -- at least not in my opinion. I was thinking more of 9-11 conspiracy crap being spouted on stage. I also wonder where they get their "information" (regardless of the conspiracy) and why are these people, at least seemingly, more gullable and willing to proclaim falsehoods as truth. Could they just be doing it to placate their audience or attract attention to themselves? G.G. Allen would threaten to kill himself on stage in an effort to draw a crowd. Could this be something like that?

24th July 2006, 12:11 PM	#6
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,094	Originally Posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine "When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the Rolling Stones as loud as I could. So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick. If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal." -Alice Cooper I think that sums it up beautifully. Amen. I've stopped listening to probably over two dozen bands in the last two years or so because of their non-stop desire to put politics, both left and right, into nearly everyone of their songs.

24th July 2006, 12:12 PM	#8
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,094	Originally Posted by baron_army While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise. One of the guys from Blink-182 buys into the 9/11 CTs.

24th July 2006, 12:14 PM	#9
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	I'm pretty sure the guys of Radiohead are rabbid CTers, especially Thom Yorke. That really bums me out, I really like their music.

24th July 2006, 12:17 PM	#10
karim Scholar Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 50	... At this rate the 911 CT is gonna become uncool pretty fast.
karim Scholar Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 50

24th July 2006, 12:17 PM	#11
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by kookbreaker In all fairness, was Meloria being serious? She's kind of a wiseass on stage. I like Rasputina, I really hope they don't go down that path. She is quite a wise-ass. I saw them in Northampton, MA a couple of years ago and she was letting fly with all sorts of off-the-cuff jokes/insults (most of which went over the heads of the college student crowd). However, I asked everyone if they thought she was being serious and everyone I've spoken to agrees that she was being serious. However, having not been there, I can't say that for certain. I can say that everyone who I asked about this also said I would have reacted very negatively to the statement -- leading me to believe she was being serious.

24th July 2006, 12:20 PM	#12
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by baron_army She is quite a wise-ass. I saw them in Northampton, MA a couple of years ago and she was letting fly with all sorts of off-the-cuff jokes/insults (most of which went over the heads of the college student crowd). However, I asked everyone if they thought she was being serious and everyone I've spoken to agrees that she was being serious. However, having not been there, I can't say that for certain. I can say that everyone who I asked about this also said I would have reacted very negatively to the statement -- leading me to believe she was being serious. I have to wonder, I just haven't really heard her say anything on stage that was meant to be taken seriously. She's even (in a small way) poked fun at conspiracy theories. She used to have a whole list of comments used on the stage. I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 12:23 PM	#13
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by kookbreaker I have to wonder, I just haven't really heard her say anything on stage that was meant to be taken seriously. She's even (in a small way) poked fun at conspiracy theories. She used to have a whole list of comments used on the stage. I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise. Whether or not it was meant as satire or to be mocking, the crowd took it seriously. I'm told they applauded and cheered the statement -- making my fairly level-headed friends uncomfortable.

24th July 2006, 12:23 PM	#14
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Cake, too.
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24th July 2006, 12:24 PM	#15
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by baron_army Whether or not it was meant as satire or to be mocking, the crowd took it seriously. I'm told they applauded and cheered the statement -- making my fairly level-headed friends uncomfortable. Sigh! Maybe she needs a little talk with Rodney!
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 12:28 PM	#16
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew Cake, too. Could you tell me where their reference is to the 9-11 bilge? That's a long page and I didn't see anything when I scanned through it.

24th July 2006, 12:34 PM	#17
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Sigh! Maybe she needs a little talk with Rodney! I find it funny he reviews one of their albums on his "What to Listen To" page (I can't put up links yet). How We Quit The Forest is a CD that not only stands as a high-water mark in women's Rock, but also in human achievement. Screw Stonehenge and the not-so-Great Pyramid - we need to make sure that this CD lands in the claw-like hands of our six-eyed, semi-aquatic, descendents.

24th July 2006, 12:44 PM	#18
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by baron_army I find it funny he reviews one of their albums on his "What to Listen To" page (I can't put up links yet). How We Quit The Forest is a CD that not only stands as a high-water mark in women's Rock, but also in human achievement. Screw Stonehenge and the not-so-Great Pyramid - we need to make sure that this CD lands in the claw-like hands of our six-eyed, semi-aquatic, descendents. Indeed. More importantly, Rodney is about as anit-conspiracy as you can get. Between Awww, Screw Mumia and his rant against students wearing Che shirts was also magnificent. But hey, this guy gave us the classic conspiracy mocking songs 'Stuart' and 'Peter Bazooka'. He's got a forum there, maybe you might bring this to his attention.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 12:49 PM	#19
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	At least you won't find Ryan and me doing anything like this.
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24th July 2006, 01:02 PM	#20
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by baron_army Could you tell me where their reference is to the 9-11 bilge? That's a long page and I didn't see anything when I scanned through it. I could've sworn I saw a link to the Loose Change video a while back. Perhaps not...I can't find it now. But the Northwoods Document is on May 19, and there's an NWO paranoia piece on June 15. Maybe they're not CTs, after all. They appear to be knee-jerk leftists. Perhaps that's as far as they go.
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24th July 2006, 01:05 PM	#21
ktesibios Worthless Aging Hippie Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,493	Having "Operation the Cheese Stands Alone" suddenly recalled to my mind very nearly made me spew coffee all over Little Elvis. It's not nice to sneak up on a guy's sense of humor like that, Kookbreaker. The tracking sessions for Stoney's Extra Stout (Pig) were the most fun I've ever had in the studio, and probably the most fun I've ever had while wearing clothes.
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24th July 2006, 01:10 PM	#22
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by ktesibios Having "Operation the Cheese Stands Alone" suddenly recalled to my mind very nearly made me spew coffee all over Little Elvis. It's not nice to sneak up on a guy's sense of humor like that, Kookbreaker. That song and Stuart should be required listening for any Skeptic, period. "They DON'T KNOW, what the QUEERS are DOING to the SOIL!"
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th July 2006, 01:49 PM	#23
jon Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 923	Originally Posted by kookbreaker There may be others, doubtless, but those are the ones I know about. Eminem, mos def etc. have done a '9/11 truth' track - http://www.911truthla.org/audio/binl...eenlantern.mp3 and http://www.911truthla.org/ (btw, track does have swearing - shock - so don't play if you don't want swearing...and website plays an annoying voice talking at you - so don't go there is you don't want that...) Track's not bad, either
jon Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 923

24th July 2006, 05:01 PM	#24
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,127	Originally Posted by baron_army While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise. I try very hard to avoid knowing the political stance of most filmmakers, actors, and musicians I like. I stick to their art. It would be too disappointing otherwise. So many of them seem to be complete pratts in la la land who honestly think their little album will affect the next election or whatever. Right. So while I've never personally heard of groups that believed 9/11 CT stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if some of my favourite groups were revealed to be hardcore 9/11 CTers. It's all a bit sad. I just stick my fingers in my ears and go "ne-na ne-na" until the song starts. -Andrew
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24th July 2006, 08:40 PM	#25
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	Yup. I also think you guys are taking this too hard. Let's just think, for a moment, how many of our favorite artists are paragons of virtue? How many musicians don't have personal lives haunted by drugs, thuggery, drugs, statutory rape, drugs, petty squabbling over release rights, drugs, or drugs? Not too many, at least in my record collection. Way less than half. Isaac Hayes remains one of my all-time favorite artists. This is unblemished by the thought of him being in the thrall of L. Ron Hubbard (nothing less than a tragedy). Play it again, Sam.

25th July 2006, 12:17 AM	#26
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in my dreams, i am still in perú Posts: 2,517	a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination. b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you.

25th July 2006, 04:35 AM	#27
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by jon Eminem, mos def etc. have done a '9/11 truth' track - http://www.911truthla.org/audio/binl...eenlantern.mp3 and http://www.911truthla.org/ (btw, track does have swearing - shock - so don't play if you don't want swearing...and website plays an annoying voice talking at you - so don't go there is you don't want that...) Track's not bad, either This is consistent with Immortal Technique's MO. I think the Eminem bit is a sample. It's hard to say whether or not the Mos Def chorus is without seeing production credits. "Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects"...uh, yeah, no st...was there any project housing at the WTC? "...so I'm strapped like Lee Malvo, holding the sniper rifle--these bullets will touch your kids..." Charming.
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25th July 2006, 05:29 AM	#28
Ripley Twenty-Nine Muse Join Date: May 2005 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 867	Originally Posted by joobie a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination. b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you. OK, consider this scenario: 1) You really like this band 2) You spend a lot of your money on their concerts/albums 3) This band donates tons of money to Scientology 4) You hate Scientology Are you not indirectly giving some of your money to Scientology? I don't lay awake at night wondering where money I spent is going, but at the same time I have a difficult time completely separating an artist from their beliefs. Especially when I'm giving this artist my money.
	__________________ Ripley 29 "Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?" "Yes I would, Kent."

25th July 2006, 05:45 AM	#29
chillzero Domestic Godless Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Top of the world, ma! Posts: 15,235	Originally Posted by joobie a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination. b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you. Well, this was my initial reaction as well, but I have to reconsider. Because - I'm a glam chick. Always was. Love Marc Bolan, Sweet, all that stuff. I was a major Gary Glitter fan for many many many years. Top of my list, and his stage gigs were brilliant to attend. Now, he makes me feel ill. I can't bear to even think about they joy he used to bring me. I detest him on a level that should be reserved for people known to me, and involved in my personal life, not complete strangers. I would never ever take any action that I thought would bring him any extra income, or give him comfort in thinking he had my support or good will. So yes, sometimes we can alter our opinion of people we initially respect in one arena, due to their beliefs and/or actions.

25th July 2006, 05:55 AM	#30
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Same here, I enjoyed a few Chumbawumba songs and I would care what their basic politics are. Everyone has the right to their politcal opinions, even if I consider them silly. However, when they started donating to the defense of Mumia Abu Jamal, a guy who shot a cop int he back and somehow became a cause du jour among the less clueful leftists I got offended. This guy shot a cop in my town, he shot him in the back and then in the face, and now some buckethead from overseas is going to give his defense more money to pump out lies in the media that they dare not use in court for fear of being laughed out of it? Sorry, but I get mad. As things stand, I will likely still listen to Rasputina, since her comments seem closer to the border between LIHOP and MIHOP than anything loose change or the 'Scholars' have come up with. Maybe someday she'll get a clue. Hey, if Spielberg can say he thinks that UFOs are probably all nonsense, anything can happen.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

25th July 2006, 05:56 AM	#31
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,139	Feh. Goth is all about divorcing yourself from reality and living in a world of vampires, witches, warlocks and mythical evil beings of all sorts. Why not throw in another mythical evil beast - the shadow world gov't that brought down the WTC, killed Kennedy, controls the world's resources and basically micromanages every aspect of everyones life so efficiently that you don't even know it? It's just another vampire in their world.

25th July 2006, 06:58 AM	#32
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Do Not Imply Goths are Woo Woos Originally Posted by WildCat Feh. Goth is all about divorcing yourself from reality and living in a world of vampires, witches, warlocks and mythical evil beings of all sorts. Why not throw in another mythical evil beast - the shadow world gov't that brought down the WTC, killed Kennedy, controls the world's resources and basically micromanages every aspect of everyones life so efficiently that you don't even know it? It's just another vampire in their world. I'll have to correct you here because I am a Goth. I've been one for quite some time. I'm also a Goth musician, a Goth DJ, and a webmaster for a Goth webpage. I'm active in the "scene" on a local and regional level and I've also participated in several national Goth events (Convergence, Gothcon, etc.). Furthermore, I've DJ'd internationally. I'd also like to add that I am gainfully employed as a scientist in the New York State Department of Health, I'm a hardcore weightlifter, and I enjoy "normal" activies like ice fishing. Furthermore, I'm a Libertarian, Skeptic, and an Agnostic (relatively non-Goth attributes) To say Goth is about divorcing oneself from reality is nothing more than an uneducated statement based in nothing more than stereotype. Goth is not about witches, worlocks, and "mythical evil beings of all sorts". It is a musically-based subculture. While some Goths may appreciate reading literature about these things, some don't -- the same as the rest of society. While some Goths may believe they are these things -- so does a portion of the rest of society. Being a subculture, Goth is a representative of its parent culture. One could just as easily say you described "Dungeons and Dragons" or role players. What separates Goth from the rest of society-at-large is it has a different set of aesthetics. A broad statement, yes, but a true one none the less. While it is true we like things a tad on the "morbid" or dark side (I, myself, have skulls decorating my apartment -- but I also collect antique cameras), I've known Goths of all walks of life from 60 to your basic high-school kid trying out things to annoy their parents. I know Librarians, Computer Programers, Electrical Engineers, other Scientists, Social Workers, Nurses, Florists, and many other professions. To imply we, because we enjoy a different type of music and may dress differently than the rest of you, are stuck in some woo woo land of escapist make-believe is nothing more than insulting. Furthermore, it adequately demonstrates your ignorance in the subject. May I suggest you pick up Goth: Identity, Style and Subculture (Dress, Body, Culture) by Paul Hodkinson at your local library. It is not one of those pulpy nonsense manuals one find out there on "how to be Goth". Instead, it is a sociological work which addresses a number of the different aspect of this subculture. I'm certain you'll be pleasently surprized by how "normal" Goths (and other subcultures for that matter) are.

25th July 2006, 07:16 AM	#33
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by joobie a) rasputina (who?) ain't rock stars by any stretch of the imagination. b) who cares what the singer thinks? do you listen to music because of what the musicians believe or because you like their music? if the former, i feel very, very sorry for you. This comment reminds me of a conversation my girlfriend and I had the other day while driving home from dinner. We some how had gotten on the subject of "extremist" attitudes and beliefs. She had commented on how she doesn't like people who hold belief so strongly (even if they are in agreement with her beliefs -- whether it be about the war in Iraq or dietary guidlines) that they alienate all others who disagree with them. During the course of our conversation, I told her the one thing that pisses me off is the sort of evangelical, shove-it-down-your-throat absolutism these people take part in. I like making up my own mind. I like weighing the pro and cons and the various bits of evidence. When these people tell me how to think, they are trying to eliminate my free will. Meloria Creager, by spouting her non-sense, was in effect negating the people in the audiences ability to make up their own minds. She wasn't telling them she thought Bush was responsible for 9-11 -- she was, in effect, telling them she knew he was responsible. No evidence. No discussion. She was preaching. Some people may like that. But I certainly don't. Especially somewhere I was expecting to be entertained. You are correct, she is only an entertainer but a lot of people don't recognize the fact that she is not an expert on middle-east relations or what have you.

25th July 2006, 07:27 AM	#34
baron_army New Blood Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 24	Originally Posted by karim ... At this rate the 911 CT is gonna become uncool pretty fast. One would hope but look where the JFK CT's are. This thing will never go away.

25th July 2006, 07:38 AM	#35
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,630	Originally Posted by baron_army While I wouldn't be surprized to hear this sort of uninformed bilge from high-school hardcore bands, I would never have expected it from a nationally touring outfit. I was curious if anyone else has heard any of this kind of conspiracy lunacy from other bands -- rock or otherwise. Are you kidding?!? In order to get a record deal you have to be really lucky and a really good musician. Either that or really marketable. Not one of those categories has anything to do with critical thinking. Nixon used an astrologer. WTF!?
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