Loose Change on Triple M Australia

Strider1974 · 28th July 2006, 10:47 PM

On Thursday night on Triple M (Radio station in Australia) the program Spoonman discussed the loose change video giving it a favourable review.

In response I went to the Triple M forum page http://www.mmmelb.com.au/stuff/phpBB...forum.php?f=12 and posted a thread titled 'Loose Change - Just plain wrong", linking this forum and the Scientific American article
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...81809EC588EF21

My thread has now been deleted 4 times - the first 3 times a moderator 'abe' claimed I had posted 'hot' links ie conatins spyware, so I reposted without the links and now it has been deleted again. When I PMed Abe he first made the above claim, then edited my repost invisibly and deleted some more. In our PM's he first tried to take the moral high ground and then started on the personal attacks

I am fairly sure that this 'abe' is a looser and is using his position as a moderator to stop dissenting views.

Thoughts anyone?
Should I contact Triple M management? Would anything happen if I did?

jhunter1163 · 29th July 2006, 12:29 AM

Guess the "truth" movement can't handle the truth...

But anyway, I'd contact MMM management, ask them why their moderator is shutting down dissenting points of view.. if you get no satisfaction there you could contact another media outlet and tell them the whole sordid tale. I'm sure someone would be happy to jump on that for you.

rustytunes · 29th July 2006, 12:56 AM

Very disapointing, but I think all commercial FM stations in Oz are the same in this respect. I'd still take it further with them though.

I find the commercial AM talk-back here is full of woo much more than the FMs, especially psychics who do the phone-in readings.

arthwollipot · 29th July 2006, 03:12 AM

Can you phone them?

Strider1974 · 29th July 2006, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Can you phone them?

Yes, the site lists phone contacts and I have been thinking about calling them

Will have to wait till Monday in any case

Orphia Nay · 29th July 2006, 09:53 PM

Good effort, Strider1974, even if your posts were all deleted.

I did a search there but can't find LC being discussed anywhere, which is one good thing, unless I didn't do it right. Do you have any links?

"Abe" may just be trying not to make Spoonman look stupid, which is his job, I guess. You may have had more effect than you realise, if you've got him to follow the links.

Keep us posted.

a_unique_person · 29th July 2006, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Strider1974

On Thursday night on Triple M (Radio station in Australia) the program Spoonman discussed the loose change video giving it a favourable review.

In response I went to the Triple M forum page http://www.mmmelb.com.au/stuff/phpBB...forum.php?f=12 and posted a thread titled 'Loose Change - Just plain wrong", linking this forum and the Scientific American article
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...81809EC588EF21

My thread has now been deleted 4 times - the first 3 times a moderator 'abe' claimed I had posted 'hot' links ie conatins spyware, so I reposted without the links and now it has been deleted again. When I PMed Abe he first made the above claim, then edited my repost invisibly and deleted some more. In our PM's he first tried to take the moral high ground and then started on the personal attacks

I am fairly sure that this 'abe' is a looser and is using his position as a moderator to stop dissenting views.

Thoughts anyone?
Should I contact Triple M management? Would anything happen if I did?

What a loser. I'd follow it up, especially as this could make it onto "Media Watch". In fact, I'd pass it on to Media Watch.

There's enough trouble in the world as it is without idiots like these guys spreading lunatic likes like this.

princhester · 30th July 2006, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

What a loser. I'd follow it up, especially as this could make it onto "Media Watch". In fact, I'd pass it on to Media Watch.

This is a damn good idea. Mediawatch love this sort of stuff.

princhester · 30th July 2006, 12:37 AM

Another thought: Mediawatch no doubt have lots of complaints sent to them, and they have to worry about defamation etc, so you need to be able to present them with a bundle of evidence that will pique their interest and be reasonably verifiable. Start the thread again, then take a screenshot. Keep taking and saving screenshots as the thread develops, then again as soon as it is deleted. Also send them the PM's. You might want to post the PM's here as well: it's always useful to get a third party POV to make sure you and they come off as you think they do.

princhester · 30th July 2006, 12:41 AM

Another alternate idea (sorry about the triplepost, I'm enthused!): post your thread, and actually say in the thread that you have taken screenshots of your thread on the messageboard, and that if it gets deleted, you will go straight to Mediawatch. That might give this loser something to think about!

Orphia Nay · 30th July 2006, 11:15 PM

Media Watch - great suggestion, a_unique_person!!

I like your suggestions, too, princhester. I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Strider1974, if you do contact Media Watch, I'd suggest referring them to Gravy's 9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide which is a direct, point-by-point and comprehensive debunking of the film.

All the best.

Strider1974 · 2nd September 2006, 12:09 AM

Thanks to the people who responded, it was appreciated.
Just in case anyone is interested here is the outcome.

In the end I decided not to contact Media Watch as the show focuses on professional reporters and since this issue was with a forum I did not think that it would apply.

I called Triple M spoke to the General Managers secretary. Here are the emails and my responses.

I am writing in response to your complaint regarding the forum on Spoonman's website. Thank you for your feedback on this issue.

Austereo is in process of developing formal guidelines concerning suitable topics and content for posting on our forums. We hope to launch the forum content policy in draft form for community consultation and feedback in coming weeks.

In the interim, we acknowledge that our moderators do have to make some "line ball" calls regarding content which we recognise can lead to some forum participants feeling aggrieved.

Again, we thank you for your feedback and hope you will agree that the development of these guidelines will improve all participants experience on the forum.

We hope you continue to enjoy Spoonman's show on Triple M.

Yours sincerely,
Helen Davies
General Manager

My response

The moderator 'ABE' did not make a "line call", he used the position of moderator to remove a post he did not agree with ie censorship.
The post I made was in response to The Spoonman giving the 'Loose Change" video a favorable review. This video claims the 911 tragedy was actively caused by the US government. Now I do not support George Bush or his administration but this video is just plain "WRONG" not to mention highly insulting to the people who lost loved ones.
Here are copies of the links I provided in my posts in response the "Loose Change" video http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=60976 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000B7FEB-A88C-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21
The Spoonman has a right to discuss any topic his likes on his show but I feel that I should be able to respond on the Triple M forum without having a moderator abuse the position and remove contrary opinions, especially given the description of the forum ( Now The Spoonman Lets You Have Your Say Online. Nothing Is Sacred - No Topic Taboo - Everything Is Fair Game. So Start Your Own Topics And Air Your Grievance Here, Or Listen Monday To Thursday's.)

Could you please answer the following questions

1/ My original request was for my forum posting to be restored as it did not contain any offensive language, spyware, spam, porn or anything else that could be considered inappropriate for children (or anyone else) Could this still be done?
2/ Does Triple M/Austereo support the "Loose Change" video?
3/ Will the new forum rules contain provisions to stop moderators abusing their position and censoring posts they do not personally agree with?
4/ Could someone speak to the moderator "ABE' to let this person know that the post has been restored and that the action taken by this moderator was inappropriate and should not be repeated?

.....and the 2nd reply from Triple M

Thank you for your response of 23 August 2006.

I would like to confirm that the role of our moderator is to prevent people from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material. On the occasion in question, the moderator made the decision that the posts were either off-topic, or would move the discussion off-topic. We have, however, noted your disagreement of this assessment and passed your comments to the online programming manager.

I also advise that when a post is removed from the site, it is deleted from the forum system and therefore is unable to be 'restored'.

Michael, as mentioned previously, we are developing guidelines for the forums and trust these will improve the experience of all participants on the site.

Regards
Helen Davies

Since it seems that Triple M supports this moderator (I suspect it is either Spoonman himself or a senior Triple M employee), then no set of rules can change the situation. I think the best thing for me to do is just avoid listening to the Spoonman and not bother with the Triple M forum.

Brainache · 2nd September 2006, 12:58 AM

Well that'll teach you to listen to MMM.
You might as well listen to Alan Jones for a balanced view of the world.

Obviousman · 2nd September 2006, 04:48 AM

You might consider having a read over the radio code of practice and see if you feel any breach has been made.

Then complain to ACMA:

http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.131...%3Apc=PC_90101

Obviousman · 2nd September 2006, 04:52 AM

You should be able to find the code of practice here:

http://www.commercialradio.com.au/index.cfm

T.A.M. · 2nd September 2006, 05:35 AM

For every left...there is a right. My suggestion, would be to find a program with content that falls on the other side of the fence (ie Spoonmans competition locally), send them an email explaining thwe outrageousness of what has been done, and see if they will do a story, etc...

gtc · 4th September 2006, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

For every left...there is a right. My suggestion, would be to find a program with content that falls on the other side of the fence (ie Spoonmans competition locally), send them an email explaining thwe outrageousness of what has been done, and see if they will do a story, etc...

Unfortunately their biggest competition would be Fox FM (I think thats what it is called in Melbourne). Fox FM is owned by the same company.

Obviousman · 5th September 2006, 03:35 AM

If you have a look at the Conditions of Use for the forum, they can delete your post for no reason at all.

Foolmewunz · 5th September 2006, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

If you have a look at the Conditions of Use for the forum, they can delete your post for no reason at all.

And apparently they're exercising their whimsy as we write. If you look at the Steve Irwin threads, they're apparently tripping over themselves to accept Spoonman's apology for something (we won't know what, evidently) he said about Irwin.

They've deleted the threads that must've quoted what he said. I guess "ABE" is working overtime?

28th July 2006, 10:47 PM	#1
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155	Loose Change on Triple M Australia On Thursday night on Triple M (Radio station in Australia) the program Spoonman discussed the loose change video giving it a favourable review. In response I went to the Triple M forum page http://www.mmmelb.com.au/stuff/phpBB...forum.php?f=12 and posted a thread titled 'Loose Change - Just plain wrong", linking this forum and the Scientific American article http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...81809EC588EF21 My thread has now been deleted 4 times - the first 3 times a moderator 'abe' claimed I had posted 'hot' links ie conatins spyware, so I reposted without the links and now it has been deleted again. When I PMed Abe he first made the above claim, then edited my repost invisibly and deleted some more. In our PM's he first tried to take the moral high ground and then started on the personal attacks I am fairly sure that this 'abe' is a looser and is using his position as a moderator to stop dissenting views. Thoughts anyone? Should I contact Triple M management? Would anything happen if I did?
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155

29th July 2006, 03:12 AM	#4
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,024	Can you phone them?
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

29th July 2006, 04:11 AM	#5
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Can you phone them? Yes, the site lists phone contacts and I have been thinking about calling them Will have to wait till Monday in any case
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155

29th July 2006, 09:53 PM	#6
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,383	Good effort, Strider1974, even if your posts were all deleted. I did a search there but can't find LC being discussed anywhere, which is one good thing, unless I didn't do it right. Do you have any links? "Abe" may just be trying not to make Spoonman look stupid, which is his job, I guess. You may have had more effect than you realise, if you've got him to follow the links. Keep us posted.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

29th July 2006, 11:16 PM	#7
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,329	Originally Posted by Strider1974 On Thursday night on Triple M (Radio station in Australia) the program Spoonman discussed the loose change video giving it a favourable review. In response I went to the Triple M forum page http://www.mmmelb.com.au/stuff/phpBB...forum.php?f=12 and posted a thread titled 'Loose Change - Just plain wrong", linking this forum and the Scientific American article http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58618 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...81809EC588EF21 My thread has now been deleted 4 times - the first 3 times a moderator 'abe' claimed I had posted 'hot' links ie conatins spyware, so I reposted without the links and now it has been deleted again. When I PMed Abe he first made the above claim, then edited my repost invisibly and deleted some more. In our PM's he first tried to take the moral high ground and then started on the personal attacks I am fairly sure that this 'abe' is a looser and is using his position as a moderator to stop dissenting views. Thoughts anyone? Should I contact Triple M management? Would anything happen if I did? What a loser. I'd follow it up, especially as this could make it onto "Media Watch". In fact, I'd pass it on to Media Watch. There's enough trouble in the world as it is without idiots like these guys spreading lunatic likes like this.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

29th July 2006, 12:29 AM	#2
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,577	Guess the "truth" movement can't handle the truth... But anyway, I'd contact MMM management, ask them why their moderator is shutting down dissenting points of view.. if you get no satisfaction there you could contact another media outlet and tell them the whole sordid tale. I'm sure someone would be happy to jump on that for you.

29th July 2006, 12:56 AM	#3
rustytunes Thinker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 236	Very disapointing, but I think all commercial FM stations in Oz are the same in this respect. I'd still take it further with them though. I find the commercial AM talk-back here is full of woo much more than the FMs, especially psychics who do the phone-in readings.

30th July 2006, 12:29 AM	#8
princhester Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 321	Originally Posted by a_unique_person What a loser. I'd follow it up, especially as this could make it onto "Media Watch". In fact, I'd pass it on to Media Watch. This is a damn good idea. Mediawatch love this sort of stuff.

30th July 2006, 12:37 AM	#9
princhester Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 321	Another thought: Mediawatch no doubt have lots of complaints sent to them, and they have to worry about defamation etc, so you need to be able to present them with a bundle of evidence that will pique their interest and be reasonably verifiable. Start the thread again, then take a screenshot. Keep taking and saving screenshots as the thread develops, then again as soon as it is deleted. Also send them the PM's. You might want to post the PM's here as well: it's always useful to get a third party POV to make sure you and they come off as you think they do.

30th July 2006, 12:41 AM	#10
princhester Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 321	Another alternate idea (sorry about the triplepost, I'm enthused!): post your thread, and actually say in the thread that you have taken screenshots of your thread on the messageboard, and that if it gets deleted, you will go straight to Mediawatch. That might give this loser something to think about!

30th July 2006, 11:15 PM	#11
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,383	Media Watch - great suggestion, a_unique_person!! I like your suggestions, too, princhester. I appreciate your enthusiasm. Strider1974, if you do contact Media Watch, I'd suggest referring them to Gravy's 9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide which is a direct, point-by-point and comprehensive debunking of the film. All the best.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

2nd September 2006, 12:09 AM	#12
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155	Thanks to the people who responded, it was appreciated. Just in case anyone is interested here is the outcome. In the end I decided not to contact Media Watch as the show focuses on professional reporters and since this issue was with a forum I did not think that it would apply. I called Triple M spoke to the General Managers secretary. Here are the emails and my responses. I am writing in response to your complaint regarding the forum on Spoonman's website. Thank you for your feedback on this issue. Austereo is in process of developing formal guidelines concerning suitable topics and content for posting on our forums. We hope to launch the forum content policy in draft form for community consultation and feedback in coming weeks. In the interim, we acknowledge that our moderators do have to make some "line ball" calls regarding content which we recognise can lead to some forum participants feeling aggrieved. Again, we thank you for your feedback and hope you will agree that the development of these guidelines will improve all participants experience on the forum. We hope you continue to enjoy Spoonman's show on Triple M. Yours sincerely, Helen Davies General Manager My response The moderator 'ABE' did not make a "line call", he used the position of moderator to remove a post he did not agree with ie censorship. The post I made was in response to The Spoonman giving the 'Loose Change" video a favorable review. This video claims the 911 tragedy was actively caused by the US government. Now I do not support George Bush or his administration but this video is just plain "WRONG" not to mention highly insulting to the people who lost loved ones. Here are copies of the links I provided in my posts in response the "Loose Change" video http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=60976 and http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000B7FEB-A88C-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21 The Spoonman has a right to discuss any topic his likes on his show but I feel that I should be able to respond on the Triple M forum without having a moderator abuse the position and remove contrary opinions, especially given the description of the forum ( Now The Spoonman Lets You Have Your Say Online. Nothing Is Sacred - No Topic Taboo - Everything Is Fair Game. So Start Your Own Topics And Air Your Grievance Here, Or Listen Monday To Thursday's.) Could you please answer the following questions 1/ My original request was for my forum posting to be restored as it did not contain any offensive language, spyware, spam, porn or anything else that could be considered inappropriate for children (or anyone else) Could this still be done? 2/ Does Triple M/Austereo support the "Loose Change" video? 3/ Will the new forum rules contain provisions to stop moderators abusing their position and censoring posts they do not personally agree with? 4/ Could someone speak to the moderator "ABE' to let this person know that the post has been restored and that the action taken by this moderator was inappropriate and should not be repeated? .....and the 2nd reply from Triple M Thank you for your response of 23 August 2006. I would like to confirm that the role of our moderator is to prevent people from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material. On the occasion in question, the moderator made the decision that the posts were either off-topic, or would move the discussion off-topic. We have, however, noted your disagreement of this assessment and passed your comments to the online programming manager. I also advise that when a post is removed from the site, it is deleted from the forum system and therefore is unable to be 'restored'. Michael, as mentioned previously, we are developing guidelines for the forums and trust these will improve the experience of all participants on the site. Regards Helen Davies Since it seems that Triple M supports this moderator (I suspect it is either Spoonman himself or a senior Triple M employee), then no set of rules can change the situation. I think the best thing for me to do is just avoid listening to the Spoonman and not bother with the Triple M forum.
Strider1974 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155

2nd September 2006, 12:58 AM	#13
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Well that'll teach you to listen to MMM. You might as well listen to Alan Jones for a balanced view of the world.
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

2nd September 2006, 04:48 AM	#14
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 652	You might consider having a read over the radio code of practice and see if you feel any breach has been made. Then complain to ACMA: http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.131...%3Apc=PC_90101

2nd September 2006, 04:52 AM	#15
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 652	You should be able to find the code of practice here: http://www.commercialradio.com.au/index.cfm

2nd September 2006, 05:35 AM	#16
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	For every left...there is a right. My suggestion, would be to find a program with content that falls on the other side of the fence (ie Spoonmans competition locally), send them an email explaining thwe outrageousness of what has been done, and see if they will do a story, etc...

4th September 2006, 01:04 AM	#17
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	Originally Posted by T.A.M. For every left...there is a right. My suggestion, would be to find a program with content that falls on the other side of the fence (ie Spoonmans competition locally), send them an email explaining thwe outrageousness of what has been done, and see if they will do a story, etc... Unfortunately their biggest competition would be Fox FM (I think thats what it is called in Melbourne). Fox FM is owned by the same company.

5th September 2006, 03:35 AM	#18
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 652	If you have a look at the Conditions of Use for the forum, they can delete your post for no reason at all.

5th September 2006, 07:14 AM	#19
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by Obviousman If you have a look at the Conditions of Use for the forum, they can delete your post for no reason at all. And apparently they're exercising their whimsy as we write. If you look at the Steve Irwin threads, they're apparently tripping over themselves to accept Spoonman's apology for something (we won't know what, evidently) he said about Irwin. They've deleted the threads that must've quoted what he said. I guess "ABE" is working overtime?
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]