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#1 |
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Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a multiverse of my own creation
Posts: 15,537
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9/11 "Trooth" : There IS hope.
About an hour ago, a friend of mine called me, and during the course of our conversation he said he had watched a video that showed that the official story of 9/11 was a lie.
Although I'm not sure that video was Loose Change, I smiled to myself, happy to use the opportunity to do my own solo debunking. I used the knowledge I've earned reading the 9/11-themed threads on this forum to demolish every point he brought from the video (and made a few pre-emptive strikes, knowing in advance some of the other points he'd bring to bear.) In less than an hour, he went from troother to skeptic, angry to have been deceived by such a load of nonsense. Well, at least SOME people can tell a logical argument from a fallacious one, and draw conclusion based on facts and evidence. There IS hope, after all. |
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__________________
- "To kill and be king, is that all?" - "Perhaps not even that." -- Uther and Merlin, Excalibur Current avatar from Jaestudio.com |
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#2 |
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NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 23,599
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Sounds like you got to him before he finished the Kool-Aid. Good job!
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#3 |
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Drunken Shikigami
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Dark Side of the Sun
Posts: 6,466
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this is the main reason i debunk, because i see friends of mine being taken in by the snake oil salesmen of the "truth" movement and i dont like it
good job rescuing another from ignorance
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#4 |
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Muse
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 508
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Belz...do you know who Democratic Senator Bob Graham is?
In a PBS interview in 2002, he has claimed that a soverienty foreign government was responsible for financing the 9/11 operation. Yet the information has been suppressed and kept classified by the Bush administration. Currently the information is being held in the archives and will be so for the next 20-30 years. Any idea which foreign government Bob Graham was referring to? And why is the Bush administration so reluctant to release the information to the public? |
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#5 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,984
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__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm |
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#6 |
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Muse
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 508
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Google?
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#7 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,984
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__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm |
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#8 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The ol' Same place
Posts: 4,729
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Congrats, Belz.
The hopeless cases (geggy, anyone?) may just be a lost cause (each of whom seemingly revel in their ignorance). But those who aren't deserve attention. |
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__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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#9 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: the downunderverse
Posts: 6,792
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#10 |
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Decoy
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies
Posts: 9,624
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The obvious answer here is that they won't release the information because it doesn't exist. Without proof that this information is being supressed there is no reason to ask the question. I can ask all day why people won't talk about invisible squirrels, but without proof of an invisible squirrel no-one will see a reason to talk about them.
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#11 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers
Posts: 5,951
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[decloak]
I also would like some evidence that "information has been suppressed and kept classified by the Bush administration". Sounds to me like a desperate attack with low-grade ammunition to try to stem the tide of exposing the 911 truth movement for what it really is: an ideological and not fact-finding movement. [cloak] |
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#12 |
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Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a multiverse of my own creation
Posts: 15,537
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Geggy, do you know who Bill Renard is ? He's the one who funded the faked lunar landings. Word has it that he's a freemason and a JOOOOO!!!! He's also the former president of Moonco, inc. (don't you think that name's kinda ironic ?) and in the 60s owed money to the russian government. Obviously, something fishy's going on, here, so why is TEH gubmint so reluctant to release this information and follow with an impartial investigation ?
Yap, yap, yap, geggy. You can say whatever you want. |
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__________________
- "To kill and be king, is that all?" - "Perhaps not even that." -- Uther and Merlin, Excalibur Current avatar from Jaestudio.com |
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#13 |
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Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a multiverse of my own creation
Posts: 15,537
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__________________
- "To kill and be king, is that all?" - "Perhaps not even that." -- Uther and Merlin, Excalibur Current avatar from Jaestudio.com |
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#14 |
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Incurable Optimist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Almost in the New Forest, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,390
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Betz
One of my friends is convinced that Diana's death was a conspiracy. Is there a debunking of that on this site? |
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#15 |
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Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In the argyle
Posts: 17,062
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You can use the thread search function to check past threads and posts. Here's one Di conspiracy thread: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...ht=Princess+Di
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links |
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#16 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers
Posts: 5,951
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#17 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,341
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__________________
"We must favour verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth." Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason |
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#18 |
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Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: India
Posts: 179
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Totally agree. No argument can shake a convinced Lady Di CT believer.
What I generally find is that they do not even listen to arguments |
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If there is a God, it's going to be a whole lot bigger and a whole lot more incomprehensible than anything that any theologian of any religion has ever proposed.- Richard Dawkins |
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#19 |
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ex-Huntsman
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: A Luxury Handbasket
Posts: 5,622
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__________________
"The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos |
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#20 |
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Incurable Optimist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Almost in the New Forest, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,390
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gravy - Thanks for the link.
dragon and burrahobbit - My friend tends to pause for a moment and then repeat her belief in the conspiracy...and she is a very sensible, practical, intelligent person and a lovely, ear friend. |
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#21 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,341
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Yup, that sounds very much like the Diana-was-murdered believers I've met. The only thing to do is to have some pointed questions to ask of the "who, what, when, where, why and how" type. Don't push it, just leave her to think.
Just as you hint at - it's not worth spoiling a friendship over. |
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__________________
"We must favour verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth." Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason |
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#22 |
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Scholar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 100
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How much could it have cost?
I'm sure this has already been done but...
We know how many there were and what their tickets were likely to cost. We know how expensive a box cutter is. We know the price of a PC and a copy of MS Flight Simulator. We know the price of some flying lessons. Add in some sundries for pizza and coke for the planning, some satchels, some travelling expenses and some barber money for pre-paradise beard maintenance. Does it really require the funding of a foreign government???? It's amazing to me how conspiricies all seem to start with people not having enough imagination, "I can't believe these guys did it on there own", "It's just not possible we could have got to the moon", "Some guys with a plank and string could never make these patterns in crops". But then, once the conspiracy has taken off there is absolutely no end to the imagination brought in to play by the same people "Clearly the op was funded by the NSA and the steel supports of the building has a central core of C4", "Clearly it was all filmed on a set somewhere in Nevada, everyone is in on it and it's been kept perfectly secret for 37 years." and "Space aliens are manipulating Mother Earth to make patterns in the crops to grant us advance warning of an impending disaster". Can't these fools show a little consistency! |
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#23 |
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Norad Ninja
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,396
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__________________
![]() O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. "My see-saw analogy renders any need for "calculations" moot." - Lyte Trip |
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#24 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18,553
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__________________
"It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos |
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