Blame it all on NORAD, sure

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 08:36 AM

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A03

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Edited by Darat:

Breach of Rule 4 removed.

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 08:38 AM

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes

How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up. VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

Overman · 2nd August 2006, 08:56 AM

Funny, They are scrambling to cover up their ineptness, and doing a inept job at that even, and CTer's give them credit for pulling off the largest most cordinated coverup operation in history.

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 09:10 AM

So you do think there is a cover up afterall?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 2nd August 2006, 09:12 AM

Did you even read the Vanity Fair article with the transcripts?

Quote:

"The real story is actually better than the one we told," a NORAD general admitted to 9/11-commission staffers when confronted with evidence from the tapes that contradicted his original testimony. And so it seems.

Quote:

"When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" Nasypany later told me. The day's exercise was designed to run a range of scenarios, including a "traditional" simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum. "I actually said out loud, 'The hijack's not supposed to be for another hour,'" Nasypany recalled. (The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11 commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens of hours of recordings, so do I.)

Quote:

n tape, one hears as Nasypany, following standard hijack protocol, prepares to launch two fighters from Otis Air National Guard Base, on Cape Cod, to look for American 11, which is now off course and headed south. He orders his Weapons Team—the group on the ops floor that controls the fighters—to put the Otis planes on "battle stations." This means that at the air base the designated "alert" pilots—two in this case—are jolted into action by a piercing "battle horn." They run to their jets, climb up, strap in, and do everything they need to do to get ready to fly short of starting the engines.

Meanwhile, the communications team at NEADS—the ID techs Dooley, Rountree, and Watson—are trying to find out, as fast as possible, everything they can about the hijacked plane: the airline, the flight number, the tail number (to help fighter pilots identify it in the air), its flight plan, the number of passengers ("souls on board" in military parlance), and, most important, where it is, so Nasypany can launch the fighters. All the ID section knows is that the plane is American Airlines, Flight No. 11, Boston to Los Angeles, currently somewhere north of John F. Kennedy International Airport—the point of reference used by civilian controllers.

ID tech Watson places a call to the management desk at Boston Center, which first alerted NEADS to the hijack, and gets distressing news.

08:39:58WATSON: It's the inbound to J.F.K.?BOSTON CENTER: We—we don't know.WATSON: You don't know where he is at all?BOSTON CENTER: He's being hijacked. The pilot's having a hard time talking to the—I mean, we don't know. We don't know where he's goin'. He's heading towards Kennedy. He's—like I said, he's like 35 miles north of Kennedy now at 367 knots. We have no idea where he's goin' or what his intentions are.WATSON: If you could please give us a call and let us know—you know any information, that'd be great.BOSTON CENTER: Okay. Right now, I guess we're trying to work on—I guess there's been some threats in the cockpit. The pilot—WATSON: There's been what?! I'm sorry.UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Threat to the … ?BOSTON CENTER: We'll call you right back as soon as we know more info.
...
08:40:36DOOLEY: O.K., he said threat to the cockpit!

Quote:

In order to find a hijacked airliner—or any airplane—military controllers need either the plane's beacon code (broadcast from an electronic transponder on board) or the plane's exact coordinates. When the hijackers on American 11 turned the beacon off, intentionally losing themselves in the dense sea of airplanes already flying over the U.S. that morning (a tactic that would be repeated, with some variations, on all the hijacked flights), the NEADS controllers were at a loss.

"You would see thousands of green blips on your scope," Nasypany told me, "and now you have to pick and choose. Which is the bad guy out there? Which is the hijacked aircraft? And without that information from F.A.A., it's a needle in a haystack."

At this point in the morning, more than 3,000 jetliners are already in the air over the continental United States, and the Boston controller's direction—"35 miles north of Kennedy"—doesn't help the NEADS controllers at all.

On tape, amid the confusion, one hears Major James Fox, then 32, the leader of the Weapons Team, whose composure will stand out throughout the attack, make an observation that, so far, ranks as the understatement of the morning.

08:43:06FOX: I've never seen so much real-world stuff happen during an exercise.
Less than two minutes later, frustrated that the controllers still can't pinpoint American 11 on radar, Nasypany orders Fox to launch the Otis fighters anyway.

08:44:59FOX: M.C.C. [Mission Crew Commander], I don't know where I'm scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination—NASYPANY: O.K., I'm gonna give you the Z point [coordinate]. It's just north of—New York City.FOX: I got this lat long, 41-15, 74-36, or 73-46.NASYPANY: Head 'em in that direction.FOX: Copy that.

Quote:

08:46:36NASYPANY: Hi, sir. O.K., what—what we're doing, we're tryin' to locate this guy. We can't find him via I.F.F. [the Identification Friend or Foe system]. What we're gonna do, we're gonna hit up every track within a 25-mile radius of this Z-point [coordinate] that we put on the scope. Twenty-nine thousand [feet] heading 1-9-0 [east]. We're just gonna do—we're gonna try to find this guy. They can't find him. There's supposedly been threats to the cockpit. So we're just doing the thing … [off-mic conversation] True. And probably right now with what's going on in the cockpit it's probably really crazy. So, it probably needs to—that will simmer down and we'll probably get some better information.PLAY | STOP

American 11 slammed into the north tower of the World Trade Center four seconds into this transmission.

Quote:

In light of this news, someone asks Nasypany what to do with the fighters—the two F-15s from Otis Air National Guard Base—which have now just blasted off for New York at full afterburner to find American 11. (The flying time at full speed from Cape Cod to New York is about 10 minutes.) Pumped with adrenaline, Nasypany doesn't miss a beat.

08:52:40NASYPANY: Send 'em to New York City still. Continue! Go!NASYPANY: This is what I got. Possible news that a 737 just hit the World Trade Center. This is a real-world. And we're trying to confirm this. Okay. Continue taking the fighters down to the New York City area, J.F.K. area, if you can. Make sure that the F.A.A. clears it— your route all the way through. Do what we gotta do, okay? Let's press with this. It looks like this guy could have hit the World Trade Center.

Quote:

As the tapes reveal in stark detail, parts of Scott's and Arnold's testimony were misleading, and others simply false. At 9:16 a.m., when Arnold and Marr had supposedly begun their tracking of United 93, the plane had not yet been hijacked. In fact, NEADS wouldn't get word about United 93 for another 51 minutes. And while NORAD commanders did, indeed, order the Langley fighters to scramble at 9:24, as Scott and Arnold testified, it was not in response to the hijacking of American 77 or United 93. Rather, they were chasing a ghost. NEADS was entering the most chaotic period of the morning.

etc

Shrinker · 2nd August 2006, 09:28 AM

So geggy are you coming around to the idea that the military tried to stop the planes crashing, and that the 9/11 Commision tried to find out what actually happened on that day, and that the popular press are not afraid to expose wrongdoing when they see it? That seems to be the point of your post.

Cylinder · 2nd August 2006, 09:28 AM

It was not NORAD that screwed the pooch - the best warning they got on Sept. 11 was the 8 minute lead time for AA11. NORAD was notified of AA 77 only three minutes before it impacted the Pentagon. For both UA175 and UA93, NORAD was notified that they were hijacked only after they had crashed.

There was some confusion at the AOCs, but that was because of conflicting information handed to them by the FAA centers.

gumboot · 2nd August 2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim?

Most CTers, from what I have seen, claim the "dozens of NORAD exercises" on 9/11 (one, actually...) amounted to a "stand-down" of NORAD. You don't even know what your own people are saying...

-Andrew

Cuddles · 2nd August 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes

How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up. VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

Would shooting down a fully loaded comercial jet in the middle of New York really have helped matter? I don't have 30 hours to listen to the tapes, but I would assume that any discussion on whether to shoot them down would last so long that it would be irrelevant by the time a descision was reached. As quite possibly happened.

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 11:27 AM

Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report?

twinstead · 2nd August 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report?

Is it ever possible for you to take off the conspiracy glasses for just a second at least and view anything objectively?

Bronze Dog · 2nd August 2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report?

You speak as if the government was one monolithic entity where every part has the same attributes as every other part.

aggle-rithm · 2nd August 2006, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

So you do think there is a cover up afterall?

That's right! Until you blew the lid on it, NORAD had successfully convinced everyone that they had, in fact, successfully stopped the terrorist attacks on 9/11. They didn't count on the genius of geggy, though, to thwart their nefarious scheme!

aggle-rithm · 2nd August 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by geggy

Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) ...

Do YOU have an alibi?

Where were YOU on 9/11?

aggle-rithm · 2nd August 2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes

How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11?

The same way any large beauracracy does: Slowly.

Quote:

Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim?

It could if they had gotten there in time, which they apparently didn't.

Quote:

Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up.

Like, they said they ordered pepperoni pizza for lunch, but from the tapes you can totally hear them say "sausage".

Quote:

VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

Or click the "close" button to ignore it and get the hell on with your life.

Hellbound · 2nd August 2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report?

Treasonous?

Really, geggy, do you EVER do ANY research into anything, or do you just post whtever makes you feel better and assume it's fact?

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 08:03 PM

A team in the 102nd Fighter Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, finishes loading dummy missiles onto two fighters that are going to fly a training mission over the Atlantic. They take off sometime before the second WTC tower is hit. Shortly after that hit, the fighters on the training mission are recalled. The implication is that the fighters are then refitted with actual weapons instead of dummy ones.

http://www.capecodonline.com/special...pecodders8.htm

Otis is the base from which the two F-15s launch in response to the first hijacking (Flight 11) at roughly the same time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

A team in the 102nd Fighter Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, finishes loading dummy missiles onto two fighters that are going to fly a training mission over the Atlantic. They take off sometime before the second WTC tower is hit. Shortly after that hit, the fighters on the training mission are recalled. The implication is that the fighters are then refitted with actual weapons instead of dummy ones.

http://www.capecodonline.com/special...pecodders8.htm

Otis is the base from which the two F-15s launch in response to the first hijacking (Flight 11) at roughly the same time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007

Geggy, my ever-fixéd star of ignorance, are you suggesting that the two alert F-15s did not take off for New York at 8:52?

Do explain.

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 08:07 PM

One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11.

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11.

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm

Your point? And please address my question above.

defaultdotxbe · 2nd August 2006, 08:20 PM

hmm, geggy's last 2 posts here bear a striking resemblance to roger_sq's comments on the SLC blog

WildCat · 2nd August 2006, 08:20 PM

Do you ever think that geggy just has everyone on ignore?

R.Mackey · 2nd August 2006, 08:28 PM

More like everything.

Please, geggy, if you can read this, come to the point.

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

hmm, geggy's last 2 posts here bear a striking resemblance to roger_sq's comments on the SLC blog

"911coverup" made identical posts on SLC.

defaultdotxbe · 2nd August 2006, 08:36 PM

same difference, lol, they all blend together these days

aggle-rithm · 2nd August 2006, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11.

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm

Why are you speaking about 5-year-old events in the present tense all of a sudden? You're not hallucinating are you? I ask only for information.

gumboot · 2nd August 2006, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11.

Oh, I didn't know that. Well. That changes things. I'm completely convinced.

Clearly 9/11 was carried out by the...

wait...

Who do you think did it again?

-Andrew

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 08:48 PM

USA Today reports that at this time, "a joint FBI/CIA anti terorist task force that specifically prepared for this type of disaster" is on a "training exercise in Monterey, Calif." Consequently "as of late Tuesday, with airports closed around the country, the task force still hasn't found a way to fly back to Washington."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...1/security.htm

WildCat · 2nd August 2006, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

USA Today reports that at this time,

That settles it then...

R.Mackey · 2nd August 2006, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

USA Today reports that at this time,
[in signature]Not ONE structural engineer in America has any idea what had happened to WTC7. How do you conspiracy clowns explain that one?

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%...se%20Final.pdf

Either USA Today or you are lying. No link supplied... probably you.

Who's the "conspiracy clown?" Hmm?

ETA: Geggy screwed up his post and didn't fix it until after I'd replied... He no longer claims USA Today said that -- but he still does. Hence, a liar. QED.

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

USA Today reports that at this time,

223 posts, geggy. And every one showing your intellectual cowardice.

Do you have any shame at all?

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

(Sig line) Not ONE structural engineer in America has any idea what had happened to WTC7. How do you conspiracy clowns explain that one?

I explain that statement by the fact that you're a very ignorant person, as you demonstrate with every post. Remember the investigation, Sherlock?
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf

Not one psychiatrist in America knows the cause of geggy's delusions of competence.

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 09:21 PM

At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt Col Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base "buster" (as fast as aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchinson is told to take off immediately and does so at 10:33 am. The other two pilots Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney take off from Andrews at 10:42 am, after having loaded their planes with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 am.

http://web.archive.org/web/200209291...s/aw090971.xml

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 09:32 PM

geggy Scorecard

Posts: 224
Sense: 0

geggy · 2nd August 2006, 09:41 PM

From 9/10 to 9/14, The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of of the Russian exercise during Operation Northern Vigilance. At the some time between 10:32 am and 11:45 am on 9/11, Russian President Vladimar Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise.

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

From 9/10 to 9/14, The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of of the Russian exercise during Operation Northern Vigilance. At the some time between 10:32 am and 11:45 am on 9/11, Russian President Vladimar Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise.

Wow! That's cool! The Russians called!
225

defaultdotxbe · 2nd August 2006, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by geggy

At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt Col Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base "buster" (as fast as aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchinson is told to take off immediately and does so at 10:33 am. The other two pilots Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney take off from Andrews at 10:42 am, after having loaded their planes with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 am.

http://web.archive.org/web/200209291...s/aw090971.xml

the ironic thing is i dont believe andrews would have had any fighters on alert for that day, so had the three not been on excercise it would have been nearly 24 hours before they could have been checked out, armed, and fueled for patrol

but i guess that proves foreknowledge now, right?

Gravy · 2nd August 2006, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

the ironic thing is i dont believe andrews would have had any fighters on alert for that day, so had the three not been on excercise it would have been nearly 24 hours before they could have been checked out, armed, and fueled for patrol

but i guess that proves foreknowledge now, right?

I would guess, even though Andrews wasn't an alert base, that it often had fighters available on short notice for Air Force 1 escort duty.

gumboot · 3rd August 2006, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

I would guess, even though Andrews wasn't an alert base, that it often had fighters available on short notice for Air Force 1 escort duty.

In September 2001 Andrews AFB had two fighter squadrons based there:

121st Fighter Squadron of the 113th Fighter Wing, District of Columbia Air National Guard

and

Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 321 (VMFA-321), Marine Air Guard

Neither are full time squadrons, and neither was on duty on the morning of 9/11.

Pilots of these squadrons, on their own initiative, headed to Andrews after they knew about the attack and loaded up their aircraft.

-Andrew

Regnad Kcin · 3rd August 2006, 12:29 AM

geggy, my pet, remember...

They're watching you. From the computer you post and the cell phone you carry, they know where you are.

Sleep tight!

2nd August 2006, 08:38 AM	#2
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up. VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 08:56 AM	#3
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,607	Funny, They are scrambling to cover up their ineptness, and doing a inept job at that even, and CTer's give them credit for pulling off the largest most cordinated coverup operation in history.
	__________________ 'The Evolution EP' on Amazon! Or iTunes!!!

2nd August 2006, 09:10 AM	#4
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	So you do think there is a cover up afterall?
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 09:12 AM	#5
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Did you even read the Vanity Fair article with the transcripts? Quote: "The real story is actually better than the one we told," a NORAD general admitted to 9/11-commission staffers when confronted with evidence from the tapes that contradicted his original testimony. And so it seems. Quote: "When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" Nasypany later told me. The day's exercise was designed to run a range of scenarios, including a "traditional" simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum. "I actually said out loud, 'The hijack's not supposed to be for another hour,'" Nasypany recalled. (The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11 commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens of hours of recordings, so do I.) Quote: n tape, one hears as Nasypany, following standard hijack protocol, prepares to launch two fighters from Otis Air National Guard Base, on Cape Cod, to look for American 11, which is now off course and headed south. He orders his Weapons Team—the group on the ops floor that controls the fighters—to put the Otis planes on "battle stations." This means that at the air base the designated "alert" pilots—two in this case—are jolted into action by a piercing "battle horn." They run to their jets, climb up, strap in, and do everything they need to do to get ready to fly short of starting the engines. Meanwhile, the communications team at NEADS—the ID techs Dooley, Rountree, and Watson—are trying to find out, as fast as possible, everything they can about the hijacked plane: the airline, the flight number, the tail number (to help fighter pilots identify it in the air), its flight plan, the number of passengers ("souls on board" in military parlance), and, most important, where it is, so Nasypany can launch the fighters. All the ID section knows is that the plane is American Airlines, Flight No. 11, Boston to Los Angeles, currently somewhere north of John F. Kennedy International Airport—the point of reference used by civilian controllers. ID tech Watson places a call to the management desk at Boston Center, which first alerted NEADS to the hijack, and gets distressing news. 08:39:58WATSON: It's the inbound to J.F.K.?BOSTON CENTER: We—we don't know.WATSON: You don't know where he is at all?BOSTON CENTER: He's being hijacked. The pilot's having a hard time talking to the—I mean, we don't know. We don't know where he's goin'. He's heading towards Kennedy. He's—like I said, he's like 35 miles north of Kennedy now at 367 knots. We have no idea where he's goin' or what his intentions are.WATSON: If you could please give us a call and let us know—you know any information, that'd be great.BOSTON CENTER: Okay. Right now, I guess we're trying to work on—I guess there's been some threats in the cockpit. The pilot—WATSON: There's been what?! I'm sorry.UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Threat to the … ?BOSTON CENTER: We'll call you right back as soon as we know more info. ... 08:40:36DOOLEY: O.K., he said threat to the cockpit! Quote: In order to find a hijacked airliner—or any airplane—military controllers need either the plane's beacon code (broadcast from an electronic transponder on board) or the plane's exact coordinates. When the hijackers on American 11 turned the beacon off, intentionally losing themselves in the dense sea of airplanes already flying over the U.S. that morning (a tactic that would be repeated, with some variations, on all the hijacked flights), the NEADS controllers were at a loss. "You would see thousands of green blips on your scope," Nasypany told me, "and now you have to pick and choose. Which is the bad guy out there? Which is the hijacked aircraft? And without that information from F.A.A., it's a needle in a haystack." At this point in the morning, more than 3,000 jetliners are already in the air over the continental United States, and the Boston controller's direction—"35 miles north of Kennedy"—doesn't help the NEADS controllers at all. On tape, amid the confusion, one hears Major James Fox, then 32, the leader of the Weapons Team, whose composure will stand out throughout the attack, make an observation that, so far, ranks as the understatement of the morning. 08:43:06FOX: I've never seen so much real-world stuff happen during an exercise. Less than two minutes later, frustrated that the controllers still can't pinpoint American 11 on radar, Nasypany orders Fox to launch the Otis fighters anyway. 08:44:59FOX: M.C.C. [Mission Crew Commander], I don't know where I'm scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination—NASYPANY: O.K., I'm gonna give you the Z point [coordinate]. It's just north of—New York City.FOX: I got this lat long, 41-15, 74-36, or 73-46.NASYPANY: Head 'em in that direction.FOX: Copy that. Quote: 08:46:36NASYPANY: Hi, sir. O.K., what—what we're doing, we're tryin' to locate this guy. We can't find him via I.F.F. [the Identification Friend or Foe system]. What we're gonna do, we're gonna hit up every track within a 25-mile radius of this Z-point [coordinate] that we put on the scope. Twenty-nine thousand [feet] heading 1-9-0 [east]. We're just gonna do—we're gonna try to find this guy. They can't find him. There's supposedly been threats to the cockpit. So we're just doing the thing … [off-mic conversation] True. And probably right now with what's going on in the cockpit it's probably really crazy. So, it probably needs to—that will simmer down and we'll probably get some better information.PLAY \| STOP American 11 slammed into the north tower of the World Trade Center four seconds into this transmission. Quote: In light of this news, someone asks Nasypany what to do with the fighters—the two F-15s from Otis Air National Guard Base—which have now just blasted off for New York at full afterburner to find American 11. (The flying time at full speed from Cape Cod to New York is about 10 minutes.) Pumped with adrenaline, Nasypany doesn't miss a beat. 08:52:40NASYPANY: Send 'em to New York City still. Continue! Go!NASYPANY: This is what I got. Possible news that a 737 just hit the World Trade Center. This is a real-world. And we're trying to confirm this. Okay. Continue taking the fighters down to the New York City area, J.F.K. area, if you can. Make sure that the F.A.A. clears it— your route all the way through. Do what we gotta do, okay? Let's press with this. It looks like this guy could have hit the World Trade Center. Quote: As the tapes reveal in stark detail, parts of Scott's and Arnold's testimony were misleading, and others simply false. At 9:16 a.m., when Arnold and Marr had supposedly begun their tracking of United 93, the plane had not yet been hijacked. In fact, NEADS wouldn't get word about United 93 for another 51 minutes. And while NORAD commanders did, indeed, order the Langley fighters to scramble at 9:24, as Scott and Arnold testified, it was not in response to the hijacking of American 77 or United 93. Rather, they were chasing a ghost. NEADS was entering the most chaotic period of the morning. etc
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

2nd August 2006, 09:28 AM	#7
Cylinder Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,984	It was not NORAD that screwed the pooch - the best warning they got on Sept. 11 was the 8 minute lead time for AA11. NORAD was notified of AA 77 only three minutes before it impacted the Pentagon. For both UA175 and UA93, NORAD was notified that they were hijacked only after they had crashed. There was some confusion at the AOCs, but that was because of conflicting information handed to them by the FAA centers.
	__________________ If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm

2nd August 2006, 09:28 AM	#6
Shrinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,026	So geggy are you coming around to the idea that the military tried to stop the planes crashing, and that the 9/11 Commision tried to find out what actually happened on that day, and that the popular press are not afraid to expose wrongdoing when they see it? That seems to be the point of your post.

2nd August 2006, 09:49 AM	#8
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,387	Originally Posted by geggy How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Most CTers, from what I have seen, claim the "dozens of NORAD exercises" on 9/11 (one, actually...) amounted to a "stand-down" of NORAD. You don't even know what your own people are saying... -Andrew
gumboot Norad Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16,387	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. "My see-saw analogy renders any need for "calculations" moot." - Lyte Trip

2nd August 2006, 09:54 AM	#9
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 9,624	Originally Posted by geggy 9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up. VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01 Would shooting down a fully loaded comercial jet in the middle of New York really have helped matter? I don't have 30 hours to listen to the tapes, but I would assume that any discussion on whether to shoot them down would last so long that it would be irrelevant by the time a descision was reached. As quite possibly happened.

2nd August 2006, 11:27 AM	#10
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report?
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 11:30 AM	#11
twinstead Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 5,950	Originally Posted by geggy Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report? Is it ever possible for you to take off the conspiracy glasses for just a second at least and view anything objectively?

2nd August 2006, 11:32 AM	#12
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Homebrew D&D Campaign Setting Posts: 5,007	Originally Posted by geggy Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report? You speak as if the government was one monolithic entity where every part has the same attributes as every other part.
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

2nd August 2006, 11:50 AM	#13
aggle-rithm Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,270	Originally Posted by geggy So you do think there is a cover up afterall? That's right! Until you blew the lid on it, NORAD had successfully convinced everyone that they had, in fact, successfully stopped the terrorist attacks on 9/11. They didn't count on the genius of geggy, though, to thwart their nefarious scheme!
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

2nd August 2006, 11:51 AM	#14
aggle-rithm Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,270	Originally Posted by geggy Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) ... Do YOU have an alibi? Where were YOU on 9/11?
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

2nd August 2006, 12:01 PM	#15
aggle-rithm Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,270	Originally Posted by geggy 9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? The same way any large beauracracy does: Slowly. Quote: Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? It could if they had gotten there in time, which they apparently didn't. Quote: Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast headquarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up. Like, they said they ordered pepperoni pizza for lunch, but from the tapes you can totally hear them say "sausage". Quote: VF.com exclusive: Hear excerpts from the September 11 NORAD tapes. Click PLAY after each transcript to listen http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01 Or click the "close" button to ignore it and get the hell on with your life.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

2nd August 2006, 12:04 PM	#16
Hellbound ex-Huntsman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A Luxury Handbasket Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by geggy Now that it's been publicly established that NORAD lied in their timesheet and the fact Pentagon covered it up, which both are treasonous offense (like anyone will be held accountable for it) what reasons do you have to believe in the commission report? Treasonous? Really, geggy, do you EVER do ANY research into anything, or do you just post whtever makes you feel better and assume it's fact?
	__________________ "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality."--Brain Greene, The Fabric of the Cosmos

2nd August 2006, 08:03 PM	#17
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	A team in the 102nd Fighter Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, finishes loading dummy missiles onto two fighters that are going to fly a training mission over the Atlantic. They take off sometime before the second WTC tower is hit. Shortly after that hit, the fighters on the training mission are recalled. The implication is that the fighters are then refitted with actual weapons instead of dummy ones. http://www.capecodonline.com/special...pecodders8.htm Otis is the base from which the two F-15s launch in response to the first hijacking (Flight 11) at roughly the same time. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 08:06 PM	#18
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by geggy A team in the 102nd Fighter Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, finishes loading dummy missiles onto two fighters that are going to fly a training mission over the Atlantic. They take off sometime before the second WTC tower is hit. Shortly after that hit, the fighters on the training mission are recalled. The implication is that the fighters are then refitted with actual weapons instead of dummy ones. http://www.capecodonline.com/special...pecodders8.htm Otis is the base from which the two F-15s launch in response to the first hijacking (Flight 11) at roughly the same time. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007 Geggy, my ever-fixéd star of ignorance, are you suggesting that the two alert F-15s did not take off for New York at 8:52? Do explain.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 08:07 PM	#19
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11. http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 08:10 PM	#20
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by geggy One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11. http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm Your point? And please address my question above.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 08:20 PM	#21
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 6,462	hmm, geggy's last 2 posts here bear a striking resemblance to roger_sq's comments on the SLC blog

2nd August 2006, 08:20 PM	#22
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 23,584	Do you ever think that geggy just has everyone on ignore?
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

2nd August 2006, 08:28 PM	#23
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 5,609	More like everything. Please, geggy, if you can read this, come to the point.

2nd August 2006, 08:32 PM	#24
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe hmm, geggy's last 2 posts here bear a striking resemblance to roger_sq's comments on the SLC blog "911coverup" made identical posts on SLC.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 08:36 PM	#25
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 6,462	same difference, lol, they all blend together these days

2nd August 2006, 08:39 PM	#26
aggle-rithm Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,270	Originally Posted by geggy One of the pilots of these F15s nicknamed Nasty is reportedly standing in for the usual "alert" pilot, who is "scheduled for training" on 9/11. http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes...ithought21.htm Why are you speaking about 5-year-old events in the present tense all of a sudden? You're not hallucinating are you? I ask only for information.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

2nd August 2006, 08:48 PM	#28
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	USA Today reports that at this time, "a joint FBI/CIA anti terorist task force that specifically prepared for this type of disaster" is on a "training exercise in Monterey, Calif." Consequently "as of late Tuesday, with airports closed around the country, the task force still hasn't found a way to fly back to Washington." http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...1/security.htm
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	Last edited by geggy; 2nd August 2006 at 08:58 PM.

2nd August 2006, 08:53 PM	#29
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 23,584	Originally Posted by geggy USA Today reports that at this time, That settles it then...
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

2nd August 2006, 08:56 PM	#30
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 5,609	Originally Posted by geggy USA Today reports that at this time, [in signature]Not ONE structural engineer in America has any idea what had happened to WTC7. How do you conspiracy clowns explain that one? http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%...se%20Final.pdf Either USA Today or you are lying. No link supplied... probably you. Who's the "conspiracy clown?" Hmm? ETA: Geggy screwed up his post and didn't fix it until after I'd replied... He no longer claims USA Today said that -- but he still does. Hence, a liar. QED.
	Last edited by R.Mackey; 2nd August 2006 at 09:04 PM.

2nd August 2006, 08:58 PM	#31
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by geggy USA Today reports that at this time, 223 posts, geggy. And every one showing your intellectual cowardice. Do you have any shame at all?
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 09:09 PM	#32
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by geggy (Sig line) Not ONE structural engineer in America has any idea what had happened to WTC7. How do you conspiracy clowns explain that one? I explain that statement by the fact that you're a very ignorant person, as you demonstrate with every post. Remember the investigation, Sherlock? http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf Not one psychiatrist in America knows the cause of geggy's delusions of competence.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 09:21 PM	#33
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt Col Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base "buster" (as fast as aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchinson is told to take off immediately and does so at 10:33 am. The other two pilots Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney take off from Andrews at 10:42 am, after having loaded their planes with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 am. http://web.archive.org/web/200209291...s/aw090971.xml
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508

2nd August 2006, 09:32 PM	#34
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	geggy Scorecard Posts: 224 Sense: 0
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 09:41 PM	#35
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	From 9/10 to 9/14, The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of of the Russian exercise during Operation Northern Vigilance. At the some time between 10:32 am and 11:45 am on 9/11, Russian President Vladimar Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise.
geggy Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 508	Last edited by geggy; 2nd August 2006 at 09:43 PM.

2nd August 2006, 09:46 PM	#36
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Originally Posted by geggy From 9/10 to 9/14, The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of of the Russian exercise during Operation Northern Vigilance. At the some time between 10:32 am and 11:45 am on 9/11, Russian President Vladimar Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise. Wow! That's cool! The Russians called! 225
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

2nd August 2006, 09:56 PM	#37
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 6,462	Originally Posted by geggy At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt Col Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base "buster" (as fast as aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchinson is told to take off immediately and does so at 10:33 am. The other two pilots Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney take off from Andrews at 10:42 am, after having loaded their planes with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 am. http://web.archive.org/web/200209291...s/aw090971.xml the ironic thing is i dont believe andrews would have had any fighters on alert for that day, so had the three not been on excercise it would have been nearly 24 hours before they could have been checked out, armed, and fueled for patrol but i guess that proves foreknowledge now, right?