Heroes of the CT wars?

Elizabeth I · 4th August 2006, 09:07 AM

How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation.

For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from?

Regnad Kcin · 4th August 2006, 09:25 AM

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61078

Welcome to the forum, Liz.

Beady · 4th August 2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation.

You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence!

c0rbin · 4th August 2006, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Beady

You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence!

Beady, you illustrate a great point about apealling to authority. I encounter posts from people who claim that because they or the source of their insipid information is a government employee the anecdote must be true.

As you demonstrate, just because someone is a government employee does not mean they are not a total f*cking nutjob. Everytime I hear "weel, my source, who works for the government says..." I think of the last time I was at the DMV being served by a government employee. Hard to take that source seriously.

And of course, the flip side is true. You claim to work for the gov and I am sure you are rational, intelligent and well informed.

JollyRoger · 4th August 2006, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Beady

You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence!

did you suggest wearing a foil hat, remember shiny side out to reflect ....

Beady · 4th August 2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by c0rbin

As you demonstrate, just because someone is a government employee does not mean they are not a total f*cking nutjob.

Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere?

Hellbound · 4th August 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Beady

Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere?

Now now, don't commit an Either-Or fallacy

c0rbin · 4th August 2006, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Beady

Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere?

You're the one who works in the Psy-Ops Dept analysing data. You should already know the answer to that.

Azure · 4th August 2006, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation.

For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from?

Just read through the numerous threads about Conspiracy Theories here on this forum, and you'll be amazed at the stupidity that some people can show.

You are correct when you refer to "circular reasoning" as that is all I have seen from the CT'ers in every single thread in this section.

Beady · 5th August 2006, 12:31 PM

I just posted this in another thread. It's a sort of follow-up to an earlier post I made here, so thought it would bear repeating:

Quote:

I just had a bit of fun. Was finishing up a bit of overtime when two cow-orkers came in to begin their OT. One sits on the other side of my cube partition and believes in remote viewing, 9/11 conspiracies, acupuncture, homeopathy, etc, and has generally been driving me out of my tree (I can't kill him, 'cause I'd probably get fired). The other cow-orker is an ultra-conservative, former cop, and sits a few cubes away. We were the only three in that part of the building.

Long story short, I mentioned to the cop that the woo believes 9/11 was a government plot. I participated in the ensuing discussion for all of 30 seconds, then tiptoed out and went home. Blood was on the floor as I left.

Brainster · 7th August 2006, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation.

For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from?

You ever see the bell curve demonstrated with marbles and nails? There are always going to be a few marbles that fall on either end. Loose marbles, we might call them.

CTs start with the conclusion and work backwards through the evidence to find what supports that conclusion, then desperately try to discount the rest as either misdirection or coverup.

The key to dealing with them without losing it is to remember this is an intellectual exercise. If you cannot leave the emotions behind, you are not ready to deal with them unless you get lucky and the opponents leave themselves wide open for an emotional response that wins.

Second, know where the opposition is weak and hammer at it. Every 9-11 nut knows that the passengers on the planes is the one thing they do not want to discuss. Alan Colmes asked Jim Fetzer about the passengers something like eight times, and each time Fetzer managed to steer the conversation away from the passengers and onto a CT point within two sentences, and yet when Colmes finally nailed him down he rattled off some nutbar stuff about he didn't know how many of them were paid. And the next time Colmes got him off into the Barbara Olson running Italian Lira along the Polish-Austria story.

4th August 2006, 09:07 AM	#1
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,255	Heroes of the CT wars? How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation. For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from?

4th August 2006, 09:25 AM	#2
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,204	http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61078 Welcome to the forum, Liz.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

4th August 2006, 09:47 AM	#3
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation. You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence!
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson

4th August 2006, 09:57 AM	#4
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	Originally Posted by Beady You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence! Beady, you illustrate a great point about apealling to authority. I encounter posts from people who claim that because they or the source of their insipid information is a government employee the anecdote must be true. As you demonstrate, just because someone is a government employee does not mean they are not a total f*cking nutjob. Everytime I hear "weel, my source, who works for the government says..." I think of the last time I was at the DMV being served by a government employee. Hard to take that source seriously. And of course, the flip side is true. You claim to work for the gov and I am sure you are rational, intelligent and well informed.
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

4th August 2006, 10:04 AM	#5
JollyRoger Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Buggery's Island Posts: 543	Originally Posted by Beady You think you've got it bad? The cow-orker (yes, that's spelled correctly) on the other side of my cube partition is into remote viewing and 9/11 conspiracies. And he and I have government jobs where we evaluate evidence! did you suggest wearing a foil hat, remember shiny side out to reflect ....
	__________________ The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. Albert Einstein

4th August 2006, 10:55 AM	#6
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	Originally Posted by c0rbin As you demonstrate, just because someone is a government employee does not mean they are not a total f*cking nutjob. Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere?
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson

4th August 2006, 10:58 AM	#7
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,911	Originally Posted by Beady Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere? Now now, don't commit an Either-Or fallacy

4th August 2006, 01:06 PM	#8
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	Originally Posted by Beady Are you talking about him or me? And is there a compliment in there, somewhere? You're the one who works in the Psy-Ops Dept analysing data. You should already know the answer to that.
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

4th August 2006, 10:09 PM	#9
Azure Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 2,538	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation. For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from? Just read through the numerous threads about Conspiracy Theories here on this forum, and you'll be amazed at the stupidity that some people can show. You are correct when you refer to "circular reasoning" as that is all I have seen from the CT'ers in every single thread in this section.

5th August 2006, 12:31 PM	#10
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	I just posted this in another thread. It's a sort of follow-up to an earlier post I made here, so thought it would bear repeating: Quote: I just had a bit of fun. Was finishing up a bit of overtime when two cow-orkers came in to begin their OT. One sits on the other side of my cube partition and believes in remote viewing, 9/11 conspiracies, acupuncture, homeopathy, etc, and has generally been driving me out of my tree (I can't kill him, 'cause I'd probably get fired). The other cow-orker is an ultra-conservative, former cop, and sits a few cubes away. We were the only three in that part of the building. Long story short, I mentioned to the cop that the woo believes 9/11 was a government plot. I participated in the ensuing discussion for all of 30 seconds, then tiptoed out and went home. Blood was on the floor as I left.
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson

7th August 2006, 10:12 PM	#11
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,408	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I How do y'all do it? Just reading CT sites makes me kick and scream and fall down foaming at the mouth (a la John Belushi's editorials on classic SNL newscasts.) Forget logical refutation. For all that, I'm FASCINATED by conspiracy theorists - the illogicality, the muddled thinking, the refusal to inspect evidence, the circular reasoning. Any theories (conspiratorial or otherwise) about where conspiracy theorists come from? You ever see the bell curve demonstrated with marbles and nails? There are always going to be a few marbles that fall on either end. Loose marbles, we might call them. CTs start with the conclusion and work backwards through the evidence to find what supports that conclusion, then desperately try to discount the rest as either misdirection or coverup. The key to dealing with them without losing it is to remember this is an intellectual exercise. If you cannot leave the emotions behind, you are not ready to deal with them unless you get lucky and the opponents leave themselves wide open for an emotional response that wins. Second, know where the opposition is weak and hammer at it. Every 9-11 nut knows that the passengers on the planes is the one thing they do not want to discuss. Alan Colmes asked Jim Fetzer about the passengers something like eight times, and each time Fetzer managed to steer the conversation away from the passengers and onto a CT point within two sentences, and yet when Colmes finally nailed him down he rattled off some nutbar stuff about he didn't know how many of them were paid. And the next time Colmes got him off into the Barbara Olson running Italian Lira along the Polish-Austria story.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. Last edited by Brainster; 7th August 2006 at 10:26 PM.