Free Spyware: extinct?

bigred · 5th August 2006, 08:09 AM

Oh sure, you can get free ones that will SCAN your system....but I've yet to find any that will CLEAN your system for free anymore. Even good ol Spybot has gone this route. Anyone know of any left that will clean for free?

tkingdoll · 5th August 2006, 08:55 AM

You mean free Spyware detectors, presumably. Free Spyware is on just about every porn site if you're willing

My version of Spybot Search and Destroy cleans for free, you sure you downloaded the right one? There is an interloper that sometimes comes up if you Google Spybot but it's a different prog.

bigred · 5th August 2006, 09:08 AM

lol and oops - obviously I meant something that will detect AND delete/kill spyware, adware, ad nauseum.

I went to spybot.com (now called "spywarebot") and the free version only detects. If you know of an older version avail that will clean, I'm all ears, although my orig reason for asking is now gone, ie #$%@!@ F.......reaking MIRAR. I want to personally break the legs of whoever came up w/it. I ultimately had to go into regedit and manaully delete a TON of crap to do it.

nescafe · 5th August 2006, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by bigred

lol and oops - obviously I meant something that will detect AND delete/kill spyware, adware, ad nauseum.

I went to spybot.com (now called "spywarebot") and the free version only detects. If you know of an older version avail that will clean, I'm all ears, although my orig reason for asking is now gone, ie #$%@!@ F.......reaking MIRAR. I want to personally break the legs of whoever came up w/it. I ultimately had to go into regedit and manaully delete a TON of crap to do it.

http://spybot.com seems to be legit -- are you sure your browser has not been hijacked? If that URL takes you to a website for "spywarebot", then it is likely that it has been.

bigred · 5th August 2006, 09:23 AM

!! You're correct, it was. Man that's a pisser. Oh well have downloaded it and stashed away for safekeeping.

Thx

LeCynthia · 5th August 2006, 10:54 AM

Adaware is still free. http://www.lavasoft.de

bigred · 5th August 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by LeCynthia

Adaware is still free. http://www.lavasoft.de

It won't clean for free though.

RayG · 5th August 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by bigred

It won't clean for free though.

Depends on which one you're using.

Ad-aware SE Personal is still free to download and use, and, according to Lavasoft, the product:

Quote:

Removes aggressive spyware and malicious content

RayG

ETA: I've found the best way to prevent spyware/trojans/worms from getting on my system in the first place is to:

switch to an alternate browser like Opera or Firefox
create and use a limited (user) account for day-to-day internet use

Further info on limited accounts:
http://nonadmin.editme.com/WhyNonAdmin
http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis...17/157962.aspx

Starthinker · 5th August 2006, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by bigred

It won't clean for free though.

The personal version is free, will update and scan for free, and works pretty darn well. Just go to the mirror site for download. It will update itself every time you run it.

bigred · 7th August 2006, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Starthinker

The personal version is free, will update and scan for free,

I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem.

bigred · 7th August 2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by RayG

Depends on which one you're using.

Ad-aware SE Personal is still free to download and use, and, according to Lavasoft, the product:

hmmmm

Well I've downloaded Spybot. Anyone real familiar w/both feel strongly one beats out the other?

Freethinker · 7th August 2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by bigred

hmmmm

Well I've downloaded Spybot. Anyone real familiar w/both feel strongly one beats out the other?

You'll need more than one to get a serious mess cleaned up.

Rat · 7th August 2006, 03:34 PM

Everyone always says that you need more than one, and as a best practice thing, I always put on Spybot and AdAware. But I've rarely or never had any problems (on others' machines; I've never had any at all on mine) that Spybot couldn't take care of. Running AdAware afterwards has often come up with a lot of tracking cookies and the like, but it's almost never found anything serious that Spybot missed.

Cheers,
Rat.

ihaunter · 7th August 2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by bigred

I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem.

With most anti-spyware programs, clean is part of the scan process.

I usually find myself recommending Microsoft's Defender. As to the recommendation of more than one program, it is because, in the past, these programs would not detect or be unable to remove adware/spyware that a different program would. I recall reading an article that stated the best any product did was detect and remove about 50% of all adware/spyware out there. Running two programs would increase the chance of one of the programs catching something. This was a while ago, and I'm sure these programs have improved to the point where running two all the time isn't necessary. But, if you think you're infected, but your program says you're not, it might be worth trying an extra scanner.

De_Bunk · 7th August 2006, 08:49 PM

Adaware and Spybot are both free and both remove spyware.

You just gotta find the link on their sites for the free versions.

DB

RayG · 8th August 2006, 08:07 AM

It is possible to surf the net daily without ever having to run an anti-spyware program.

I've been doing so with four systems for months and months with no ill effects.

No spyware/adware, no viruses/trojans/worms, no hijackthis logs, no problems. Anyone can do the same.

RayG

Hutch · 8th August 2006, 08:39 AM

Concur with DeBunk, I run both AdAware and Spybot along with Norton Antivirus at least weekly and that seems to keep my machince pretty clear.

Zax63 · 8th August 2006, 08:51 AM

The free Spybot Search & Destroy is from safer-networking.org

Roadtoad · 8th August 2006, 09:12 AM

Similar problem: I can't get logged into Yahoo! to get my e-mail and into my content on Yahoo!. Something's blocking me, though I can get here.

Can anyone help? I'm running a bunch of stuff to clear it out, now.

Starthinker · 8th August 2006, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by bigred

I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem.

You need to download and run the program. Once it runs, if it finds anything, it will ask you if you want to clean them off, check off the items you want to remove and it will remove/clean/scour whatever you want to call it. It's not web based, you have to install the program and run it before you can clean. And yes, again, it's all free.

bigred · 8th August 2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Freethinker

You'll need more than one to get a serious mess cleaned up.

Not true. In fact you don't need any, necessarily.....friggin "Mirar" was the worst I'd ever seen and I got rid of it w/o any. Royal PITA though.

bigred · 8th August 2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by ihaunter

I usually find myself recommending Microsoft's Defender.

Thought I heard that was a beta version only.

Using a beta version of anything MS is scarier than any spyware.

scribble · 8th August 2006, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by RayG

It is possible to surf the net daily without ever having to run an anti-spyware program.

I've been doing so with four systems for months and months with no ill effects.

No spyware/adware, no viruses/trojans/worms,

Rhetorical question: how do you know?

It's rhetorical because there's only one possible answer. You don't. Even if you change your policy, install adware and virus scanners and run them, you STILL don't know.

Not all viruses cause visible performance degradation. The newest crop of viruses don't even run in your operating system... which means that you can run Norton or McAfee or your scanner of choice all year long and you'll never find it.

If you don't have any idea what I'm going on about, try a google search for virtual-machine or "vm"-based rootkits.

nescafe · 9th August 2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by scribble

Rhetorical question: how do you know?

Well, in my case, it is because I am really paranoid, and surf only with Firefox + Adblock + adblock settings I have been building for a couple of years now.

Originally Posted by scribble

It's rhetorical because there's only one possible answer. You don't. Even if you change your policy, install adware and virus scanners and run them, you STILL don't know.

Using Linux as my primary OS for the last 7 years doesn't hurt either.

Originally Posted by scribble

Not all viruses cause visible performance degradation. The newest crop of viruses don't even run in your operating system... which means that you can run Norton or McAfee or your scanner of choice all year long and you'll never find it.

Not exactly. One of my duties at work is to be the local expert for trojans, worms, viruses, spyware, etc. There are a couple that can run outside the OS, but they are proof-of-concept more than anything else -- most "uncleanable" malware uses kernelspace rootkits to cloak itself.
[/quote]

Originally Posted by scribble

If you don't have any idea what I'm going on about, try a google search for virtual-machine or "vm"-based rootkits.

It is an interesting development, but still a proof-of-concept thing -- it looks fairly fragile.

RayG · 9th August 2006, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by nescafe

Well, in my case, it is because I am really paranoid, and surf only with Firefox + Adblock + adblock settings I have been building for a couple of years now.

Using Linux as my primary OS for the last 7 years doesn't hurt either.

Not exactly. One of my duties at work is to be the local expert for trojans, worms, viruses, spyware, etc. There are a couple that can run outside the OS, but they are proof-of-concept more than anything else -- most "uncleanable" malware uses kernelspace rootkits to cloak itself.

It is an interesting development, but still a proof-of-concept thing -- it looks fairly fragile.

Beat me to it. Bought my first computer in 1982 and I've been playing with them ever since. My wife thinks I'm uber-paranoid when it comes to the computers. I presently have five computers connected to net, four of them 24/7, and my wife, myself, and our eight children use all four of the 24/7 systems. Four are XP systems, one is a Linux box. I run them all as limited user accounts, have the XP systems behind both software/hardware firewalls, have locked down IE on all XP systems (to the point it cannot access the net), I only open email attachments I have asked for, OE is not used on any of the systems, I don't engage in P2P networking, and basically I try to put that little spongy thing between my ears to good use when it comes to the computer.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of spyware/adware/virus/trojan/worm problems people complain about on the geeky tech forums I visit. A few simple preventive measures, and most of those complaints would have been non-existent.

sribble: How do I know for certain I don't have some malicious tidbit hiding in the inner sanctums of my computer? I don't, though I'm reasonably certain there's nothing there. I do know all my systems run smoothly, any test HJT logs I run on the XP systems come back completely clean, and any malware wishing to install has to somehow grant itself administrative authority.

Any suggestions on how I might better lockdown my systems?

Also, please explain how an unauthorized vm-based rootkit can infiltrate my system and install the virtualization software to begin with.

There's a nice paper over here that goes into great depth about vm-based rootkits. Section 3.1, page 4, second paragraph, about the requirement for VMBR installation is especially interesting.

Quote:

To install a VMBR on a computer, an attacker must first gain access to the system with sufficient privileges to modify the system boot sequence.

That seems to be saying no privileges = no access.

RayG

5th August 2006, 08:09 AM	#1
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Free Spyware: extinct? Oh sure, you can get free ones that will SCAN your system....but I've yet to find any that will CLEAN your system for free anymore. Even good ol Spybot has gone this route. Anyone know of any left that will clean for free?

5th August 2006, 08:55 AM	#2
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	You mean free Spyware detectors, presumably. Free Spyware is on just about every porn site if you're willing My version of Spybot Search and Destroy cleans for free, you sure you downloaded the right one? There is an interloper that sometimes comes up if you Google Spybot but it's a different prog.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

5th August 2006, 06:30 PM	#8
RayG Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Somewhere in Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,326	Originally Posted by bigred It won't clean for free though. Depends on which one you're using. Ad-aware SE Personal is still free to download and use, and, according to Lavasoft, the product: Quote: Removes aggressive spyware and malicious content RayG ETA: I've found the best way to prevent spyware/trojans/worms from getting on my system in the first place is to: switch to an alternate browser like Opera or Firefox create and use a limited (user) account for day-to-day internet use Further info on limited accounts: http://nonadmin.editme.com/WhyNonAdmin http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis...17/157962.aspx
	__________________ Tell ya what. I'll hold my tongue as long as you stick to facts. -------------------- Scrutatio Et Quaestio Last edited by RayG; 5th August 2006 at 06:35 PM.

5th August 2006, 08:05 PM	#9
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	Originally Posted by bigred It won't clean for free though. The personal version is free, will update and scan for free, and works pretty darn well. Just go to the mirror site for download. It will update itself every time you run it.
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.

7th August 2006, 12:51 PM	#12
Freethinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 1,358	Originally Posted by bigred hmmmm Well I've downloaded Spybot. Anyone real familiar w/both feel strongly one beats out the other? You'll need more than one to get a serious mess cleaned up.
	__________________ "Did it indeed seem probable, as he had once overheard Dunbar ask, that the answers to the riddles of creation would be supplied by people too ignorant to understand the mechanics of rainfall? Had Almighty God, in all His infinite wisdom, really been afraid that men six thousand years ago would succeed in building a tower to heaven?" Thoughts of the Chaplain in Heller's Catch-22

5th August 2006, 09:08 AM	#3
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	lol and oops - obviously I meant something that will detect AND delete/kill spyware, adware, ad nauseum. I went to spybot.com (now called "spywarebot") and the free version only detects. If you know of an older version avail that will clean, I'm all ears, although my orig reason for asking is now gone, ie #$%@!@ F.......reaking MIRAR. I want to personally break the legs of whoever came up w/it. I ultimately had to go into regedit and manaully delete a TON of crap to do it.

5th August 2006, 09:20 AM	#4
nescafe Caffeinated Beverage Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Just above the coffeemaker Posts: 864	Originally Posted by bigred lol and oops - obviously I meant something that will detect AND delete/kill spyware, adware, ad nauseum. I went to spybot.com (now called "spywarebot") and the free version only detects. If you know of an older version avail that will clean, I'm all ears, although my orig reason for asking is now gone, ie #$%@!@ F.......reaking MIRAR. I want to personally break the legs of whoever came up w/it. I ultimately had to go into regedit and manaully delete a TON of crap to do it. http://spybot.com seems to be legit -- are you sure your browser has not been hijacked? If that URL takes you to a website for "spywarebot", then it is likely that it has been.

5th August 2006, 09:23 AM	#5
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	!! You're correct, it was. Man that's a pisser. Oh well have downloaded it and stashed away for safekeeping. Thx

5th August 2006, 10:54 AM	#6
LeCynthia Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mason City, IA Posts: 143	Adaware is still free. http://www.lavasoft.de

5th August 2006, 04:17 PM	#7
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Originally Posted by LeCynthia Adaware is still free. http://www.lavasoft.de It won't clean for free though.

7th August 2006, 12:43 PM	#10
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Originally Posted by Starthinker The personal version is free, will update and scan for free, I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem.

7th August 2006, 12:45 PM	#11
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Originally Posted by RayG Depends on which one you're using. Ad-aware SE Personal is still free to download and use, and, according to Lavasoft, the product: hmmmm Well I've downloaded Spybot. Anyone real familiar w/both feel strongly one beats out the other?

7th August 2006, 03:34 PM	#13
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,050	Everyone always says that you need more than one, and as a best practice thing, I always put on Spybot and AdAware. But I've rarely or never had any problems (on others' machines; I've never had any at all on mine) that Spybot couldn't take care of. Running AdAware afterwards has often come up with a lot of tracking cookies and the like, but it's almost never found anything serious that Spybot missed. Cheers, Rat.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

7th August 2006, 06:29 PM	#14
ihaunter Undead Skeptic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Middle of nowhere, Iowa Posts: 375	Originally Posted by bigred I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem. With most anti-spyware programs, clean is part of the scan process. I usually find myself recommending Microsoft's Defender. As to the recommendation of more than one program, it is because, in the past, these programs would not detect or be unable to remove adware/spyware that a different program would. I recall reading an article that stated the best any product did was detect and remove about 50% of all adware/spyware out there. Running two programs would increase the chance of one of the programs catching something. This was a while ago, and I'm sure these programs have improved to the point where running two all the time isn't necessary. But, if you think you're infected, but your program says you're not, it might be worth trying an extra scanner.
	__________________ "Omne ignotum pro magnifico" (Everything unknown passes for something splendid) - Publius Cornelius Tacitus "No two humans are created equal. They're like snowflakes with a 250° C combustion temperature." Freefall comic

7th August 2006, 08:49 PM	#15
De_Bunk Scourge of the Believer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,508	Adaware and Spybot are both free and both remove spyware. You just gotta find the link on their sites for the free versions. DB
	__________________ I've made nearly 20,000 posts on the JREF... Trouble is..over 14,000 have been deleted... And you think you're 'Hardcore'.. (DB)

8th August 2006, 08:07 AM	#16
RayG Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Somewhere in Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,326	It is possible to surf the net daily without ever having to run an anti-spyware program. I've been doing so with four systems for months and months with no ill effects. No spyware/adware, no viruses/trojans/worms, no hijackthis logs, no problems. Anyone can do the same. RayG
	__________________ Tell ya what. I'll hold my tongue as long as you stick to facts. -------------------- Scrutatio Et Quaestio

8th August 2006, 08:39 AM	#17
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,533	Concur with DeBunk, I run both AdAware and Spybot along with Norton Antivirus at least weekly and that seems to keep my machince pretty clear.
	__________________ If sheer righteous fury could accomplish anything worthwhile, Wolverines would have inherited the Galaxy long ago." -Web DuHavel, David Weber's "Honorverse" Series

8th August 2006, 08:51 AM	#18
Zax63 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,665	The free Spybot Search & Destroy is from safer-networking.org

8th August 2006, 09:12 AM	#19
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Similar problem: I can't get logged into Yahoo! to get my e-mail and into my content on Yahoo!. Something's blocking me, though I can get here. Can anyone help? I'm running a bunch of stuff to clear it out, now.

8th August 2006, 10:02 AM	#20
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	Originally Posted by bigred I didn't see "clean" in there anywhere. Scanning is worthless if it won't eliminate the problem. You need to download and run the program. Once it runs, if it finds anything, it will ask you if you want to clean them off, check off the items you want to remove and it will remove/clean/scour whatever you want to call it. It's not web based, you have to install the program and run it before you can clean. And yes, again, it's all free.
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.

8th August 2006, 01:08 PM	#21
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Originally Posted by Freethinker You'll need more than one to get a serious mess cleaned up. Not true. In fact you don't need any, necessarily.....friggin "Mirar" was the worst I'd ever seen and I got rid of it w/o any. Royal PITA though.

8th August 2006, 01:10 PM	#22
bigred Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 12,533	Originally Posted by ihaunter I usually find myself recommending Microsoft's Defender. Thought I heard that was a beta version only. Using a beta version of anything MS is scarier than any spyware.

8th August 2006, 02:32 PM	#23
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Originally Posted by RayG It is possible to surf the net daily without ever having to run an anti-spyware program. I've been doing so with four systems for months and months with no ill effects. No spyware/adware, no viruses/trojans/worms, Rhetorical question: how do you know? It's rhetorical because there's only one possible answer. You don't. Even if you change your policy, install adware and virus scanners and run them, you STILL don't know. Not all viruses cause visible performance degradation. The newest crop of viruses don't even run in your operating system... which means that you can run Norton or McAfee or your scanner of choice all year long and you'll never find it. If you don't have any idea what I'm going on about, try a google search for virtual-machine or "vm"-based rootkits.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

9th August 2006, 05:38 AM	#24
nescafe Caffeinated Beverage Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Just above the coffeemaker Posts: 864	Originally Posted by scribble Rhetorical question: how do you know? Well, in my case, it is because I am really paranoid, and surf only with Firefox + Adblock + adblock settings I have been building for a couple of years now. Originally Posted by scribble It's rhetorical because there's only one possible answer. You don't. Even if you change your policy, install adware and virus scanners and run them, you STILL don't know. Using Linux as my primary OS for the last 7 years doesn't hurt either. Originally Posted by scribble Not all viruses cause visible performance degradation. The newest crop of viruses don't even run in your operating system... which means that you can run Norton or McAfee or your scanner of choice all year long and you'll never find it. Not exactly. One of my duties at work is to be the local expert for trojans, worms, viruses, spyware, etc. There are a couple that can run outside the OS, but they are proof-of-concept more than anything else -- most "uncleanable" malware uses kernelspace rootkits to cloak itself. [/quote] Originally Posted by scribble If you don't have any idea what I'm going on about, try a google search for virtual-machine or "vm"-based rootkits. It is an interesting development, but still a proof-of-concept thing -- it looks fairly fragile.

9th August 2006, 08:00 AM	#25
RayG Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Somewhere in Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,326	Originally Posted by nescafe Well, in my case, it is because I am really paranoid, and surf only with Firefox + Adblock + adblock settings I have been building for a couple of years now. Using Linux as my primary OS for the last 7 years doesn't hurt either. Not exactly. One of my duties at work is to be the local expert for trojans, worms, viruses, spyware, etc. There are a couple that can run outside the OS, but they are proof-of-concept more than anything else -- most "uncleanable" malware uses kernelspace rootkits to cloak itself. It is an interesting development, but still a proof-of-concept thing -- it looks fairly fragile. Beat me to it. Bought my first computer in 1982 and I've been playing with them ever since. My wife thinks I'm uber-paranoid when it comes to the computers. I presently have five computers connected to net, four of them 24/7, and my wife, myself, and our eight children use all four of the 24/7 systems. Four are XP systems, one is a Linux box. I run them all as limited user accounts, have the XP systems behind both software/hardware firewalls, have locked down IE on all XP systems (to the point it cannot access the net), I only open email attachments I have asked for, OE is not used on any of the systems, I don't engage in P2P networking, and basically I try to put that little spongy thing between my ears to good use when it comes to the computer. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of spyware/adware/virus/trojan/worm problems people complain about on the geeky tech forums I visit. A few simple preventive measures, and most of those complaints would have been non-existent. sribble: How do I know for certain I don't have some malicious tidbit hiding in the inner sanctums of my computer? I don't, though I'm reasonably certain there's nothing there. I do know all my systems run smoothly, any test HJT logs I run on the XP systems come back completely clean, and any malware wishing to install has to somehow grant itself administrative authority. Any suggestions on how I might better lockdown my systems? Also, please explain how an unauthorized vm-based rootkit can infiltrate my system and install the virtualization software to begin with. There's a nice paper over here that goes into great depth about vm-based rootkits. Section 3.1, page 4, second paragraph, about the requirement for VMBR installation is especially interesting. Quote: To install a VMBR on a computer, an attacker must first gain access to the system with sufficient privileges to modify the system boot sequence. That seems to be saying no privileges = no access. RayG
	__________________ Tell ya what. I'll hold my tongue as long as you stick to facts. -------------------- Scrutatio Et Quaestio