Urban Sprawl

PygmyPlaidGiraffe · 30th May 2003, 05:42 PM

When human development and expansion encroaches on nature,

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/About_us/...ly10110001.asp

we try to reduce the impact,

http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002...wildlife020916

How much affect does urban sprawl have on biodiversity?

Do we kid ourselves when we use encourageing terms like ecosystem management, sustained growth, and allotting green spaces? Are growing urban centers impacting ecosystems in such a way that the organisms and species can not adapt fast enough?

Denise · 30th May 2003, 08:46 PM

Ed forbid one brings up the topic of population growth- not on this forum, but in general society.

Michael Redman · 31st May 2003, 09:24 AM

I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think.

PygmyPlaidGiraffe · 31st May 2003, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Redman
I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think.

good point.

agricutural practices have improved enormously.

I know in Canada the farmers can participate in a "natural heritage" program that pays them to leave, say for example, some wetlands on their land. This does not leave large pristine environments, but it does allow fowl to use traditional migration routes and use the areas for breading.

jj · 31st May 2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denise
Ed forbid one brings up the topic of population growth- not on this forum, but in general society.

Worst thing is, the people who should/need to reproduce are those who aren't, to a very real extent.

I have argued several times that understanding and intellegence select against breeding. People get upset with me when I say it, but I see no evidence to support any other view.

Jethro · 31st May 2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe
and use the areas for breading.

I wasn't aware that birds were into shake and bake...

PygmyPlaidGiraffe · 1st June 2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jethro
I wasn't aware that birds were into shake and bake...

yes, the elite birds have decided to take control of the fast food industry as it pertains to the use of fowl. Nothing like exploiting your fellow brothers and sisters

Dancing David · 2nd June 2003, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Redman
I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think.

Whamo!

In Illinois everyone acts like turning farmland into anything is against the Ten Comandments.

Ehgawds people, at the turn of the century there was pasture, wood lots and forests. The the DoAgriculture convinced everyone to grow corn and soy beans. Now all there is is corn and soybeans. Modern farming supports as much biodiversity as a kentucky blue grass lawn.

CSSMariner · 2nd June 2003, 05:26 PM

I encourage anyone who is concerned to read Rachel Carson's great work, Silent Spring, published in 1962. I graduated from high school in 1962, and have been an outdoorsman for all my life, until I arrived in S. Florida at least.

I remember when I was a pup listening to the songbirds of spring in North Carolina, and it was wonderful. I would open my window as soon as it was warm enough, and it would stay open until late fall made it too cold to continue the practice.

As a kid I would hear hundreds of birds, and could identify a lot of them by their calls. Carson's book depressed me then and I thought at the time, "ah, that's a bunch of crap."

Fast forward to today and here I sit in south Florida, next door, well within five miles anyway, to the Everglades. Now the reverse is true of the windows of my home, I wait for the cooler days of winter so I can open windows and not be a prisoner to the central AC that makes life possible down here in the sub tropics.

As winter becomes what passes for spring in S Florida, one may well expect that lots of birds would be coming up the flyway from South America across the keys and saturating the areas around the 'Glades. Not so, it is an almost silent spring even down here.

There is spraying for mosquitoes now and then, but that also takes out a lot of other insects. What is the major food source of songbirds? Insects of course. No food, no birds. That added to the destruction of habitat, and the proliferation of feral cats that decimate bird populations, and something that I would shoot on sight if possible, I am living Rachel Carson's book. We have flocks of green parrots, but they are not native and make a terrible noise. Doves coo, but are hard to find. Crows caw, but that is an intrusion. There are very few songbirds down here, and it is sad.

By default of monitoring the southern airways for drug smuggler's aircraft, the same radar units monitor the eastern flyway. In most species of migratory songbird there has been a 90% to 95% decrease in the songbird population.

A thousand people a day move to Florida, and a good percentage of them come to S Florida. In the ten years I have been here I have watched even small wild places get dozed down and condos built. The last natural spot in Plantation where I rode my trail bicycle was converted to housing about three years ago.

I am fed up with it, and Diane and I are going away, moving to be near grandchildren. We will be very near the L. B. J. National Grasslands Park near Decatur, Texas. 30,000 acres of parkland and nature away from the cities. Maybe I can recapture some of what I experienced as a North Carolina nature lover in the spring, but I am not too optimistic.

UnrepentantSinner · 2nd June 2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CSSMariner
I am fed up with it, and Diane and I are going away, moving to be near grandchildren. We will be very near the L. B. J. National Grasslands Park near Decatur, Texas. 30,000 acres of parkland and nature away from the cities. Maybe I can recapture some of what I experienced as a North Carolina nature lover in the spring, but I am not too optimistic.

Great post CSSM!

The last time I drove through Decatur I noticed there had been an increase in the number of stores and resturaunts, but nothing that would indicate the massive spawl that the mid-cities and north of DFW are experiencing. There's still plenty of "not much" out that way.

At work in Plano, I frequently see and hear Mockingbirds, Doves, Cardinals, Chickadees, Blue Jays, Starlings and the ubiquitus Grackle. Out your way, they should be even more plentiful.

CurtC · 2nd June 2003, 07:50 PM

Here in suburbia, in the corner where Garland, Plano, and Richardson meet, we're overrun with house finches, blue jays, mockingbirds, titmice, cardinals, various sparrows, carolina chickadees, downy woodpeckers, red-bellied woodpeckers, mourning doves, the occasional carolina wren, and in the winter, dull-colored goldfinches. So you can't blame the lack of songbirds where you're living on sprawl.

30th May 2003, 05:42 PM	#1
PygmyPlaidGiraffe Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,289	Urban Sprawl When human development and expansion encroaches on nature, http://www.davidsuzuki.org/About_us/...ly10110001.asp we try to reduce the impact, http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002...wildlife020916 How much affect does urban sprawl have on biodiversity? Do we kid ourselves when we use encourageing terms like ecosystem management, sustained growth, and allotting green spaces? Are growing urban centers impacting ecosystems in such a way that the organisms and species can not adapt fast enough?
	__________________ DÃ©montrer habituellement mon fromage glissant outre de mon biscuit depuis 1976. ruminating artiodactyle ungulate http://www.ultimateungulate.com/index.html

30th May 2003, 08:46 PM	#2
Denise Succubus Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,869	Ed forbid one brings up the topic of population growth- not on this forum, but in general society.
Denise Succubus Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,869	__________________ Sundog- Do the words Biosphere 2 convey anything to anyone?

31st May 2003, 09:24 AM	#3
Michael Redman Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 3,063	I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think.
	__________________ The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain

31st May 2003, 10:15 AM	#4
PygmyPlaidGiraffe Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,289	Quote: Originally posted by Michael Redman I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think. good point. agricutural practices have improved enormously. I know in Canada the farmers can participate in a "natural heritage" program that pays them to leave, say for example, some wetlands on their land. This does not leave large pristine environments, but it does allow fowl to use traditional migration routes and use the areas for breading.
	__________________ DÃ©montrer habituellement mon fromage glissant outre de mon biscuit depuis 1976. ruminating artiodactyle ungulate http://www.ultimateungulate.com/index.html

31st May 2003, 07:18 PM	#5
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,520	Quote: Originally posted by Denise Ed forbid one brings up the topic of population growth- not on this forum, but in general society. Worst thing is, the people who should/need to reproduce are those who aren't, to a very real extent. I have argued several times that understanding and intellegence select against breeding. People get upset with me when I say it, but I see no evidence to support any other view.
	__________________ The Power to Quit

31st May 2003, 09:35 PM	#6
Jethro Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 142	Quote: Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe and use the areas for breading. I wasn't aware that birds were into shake and bake...
Jethro Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 142

1st June 2003, 08:30 PM	#7
PygmyPlaidGiraffe Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,289	Quote: Originally posted by Jethro I wasn't aware that birds were into shake and bake... yes, the elite birds have decided to take control of the fast food industry as it pertains to the use of fowl. Nothing like exploiting your fellow brothers and sisters
	__________________ DÃ©montrer habituellement mon fromage glissant outre de mon biscuit depuis 1976. ruminating artiodactyle ungulate http://www.ultimateungulate.com/index.html

2nd June 2003, 10:44 AM	#8
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,729	Quote: Originally posted by Michael Redman I wonder how much impact on biodiveristy sprawl has. I don't know about the rest fo the world, but it seems that most of the sprawl here is taking over farm land, which has already had it's biodiversity eliminated. Personally, I'm more concerned with the amount of land we use for agriculture. It dwarfs urban sprawl, I think. Whamo! In Illinois everyone acts like turning farmland into anything is against the Ten Comandments. Ehgawds people, at the turn of the century there was pasture, wood lots and forests. The the DoAgriculture convinced everyone to grow corn and soy beans. Now all there is is corn and soybeans. Modern farming supports as much biodiversity as a kentucky blue grass lawn.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

2nd June 2003, 05:26 PM	#9
CSSMariner Thinker Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 173	I encourage anyone who is concerned to read Rachel Carson's great work, Silent Spring, published in 1962. I graduated from high school in 1962, and have been an outdoorsman for all my life, until I arrived in S. Florida at least. I remember when I was a pup listening to the songbirds of spring in North Carolina, and it was wonderful. I would open my window as soon as it was warm enough, and it would stay open until late fall made it too cold to continue the practice. As a kid I would hear hundreds of birds, and could identify a lot of them by their calls. Carson's book depressed me then and I thought at the time, "ah, that's a bunch of crap." Fast forward to today and here I sit in south Florida, next door, well within five miles anyway, to the Everglades. Now the reverse is true of the windows of my home, I wait for the cooler days of winter so I can open windows and not be a prisoner to the central AC that makes life possible down here in the sub tropics. As winter becomes what passes for spring in S Florida, one may well expect that lots of birds would be coming up the flyway from South America across the keys and saturating the areas around the 'Glades. Not so, it is an almost silent spring even down here. There is spraying for mosquitoes now and then, but that also takes out a lot of other insects. What is the major food source of songbirds? Insects of course. No food, no birds. That added to the destruction of habitat, and the proliferation of feral cats that decimate bird populations, and something that I would shoot on sight if possible, I am living Rachel Carson's book. We have flocks of green parrots, but they are not native and make a terrible noise. Doves coo, but are hard to find. Crows caw, but that is an intrusion. There are very few songbirds down here, and it is sad. By default of monitoring the southern airways for drug smuggler's aircraft, the same radar units monitor the eastern flyway. In most species of migratory songbird there has been a 90% to 95% decrease in the songbird population. A thousand people a day move to Florida, and a good percentage of them come to S Florida. In the ten years I have been here I have watched even small wild places get dozed down and condos built. The last natural spot in Plantation where I rode my trail bicycle was converted to housing about three years ago. I am fed up with it, and Diane and I are going away, moving to be near grandchildren. We will be very near the L. B. J. National Grasslands Park near Decatur, Texas. 30,000 acres of parkland and nature away from the cities. Maybe I can recapture some of what I experienced as a North Carolina nature lover in the spring, but I am not too optimistic.
CSSMariner Thinker Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 173	__________________ "Never give in, never give in, never, never, never give in." Sir Winston S. Churchill

2nd June 2003, 07:40 PM	#10
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,361	Quote: Originally posted by CSSMariner I am fed up with it, and Diane and I are going away, moving to be near grandchildren. We will be very near the L. B. J. National Grasslands Park near Decatur, Texas. 30,000 acres of parkland and nature away from the cities. Maybe I can recapture some of what I experienced as a North Carolina nature lover in the spring, but I am not too optimistic. Great post CSSM! The last time I drove through Decatur I noticed there had been an increase in the number of stores and resturaunts, but nothing that would indicate the massive spawl that the mid-cities and north of DFW are experiencing. There's still plenty of "not much" out that way. At work in Plano, I frequently see and hear Mockingbirds, Doves, Cardinals, Chickadees, Blue Jays, Starlings and the ubiquitus Grackle. Out your way, they should be even more plentiful.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

2nd June 2003, 07:50 PM	#11
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Here in suburbia, in the corner where Garland, Plano, and Richardson meet, we're overrun with house finches, blue jays, mockingbirds, titmice, cardinals, various sparrows, carolina chickadees, downy woodpeckers, red-bellied woodpeckers, mourning doves, the occasional carolina wren, and in the winter, dull-colored goldfinches. So you can't blame the lack of songbirds where you're living on sprawl.