When arcade play pays off

kittynh · 9th August 2006, 10:44 PM

I'm watching the tv show "Mysteries of the Deep" ( or something like that)

These guys go diving to find out what has happened to "lost ships" . They try to find the ships first off, and then figure out why they went down.

They usually send down one of those robot subs with just a camera first. And ofcourse, the robot just kicks up a lot of silt and you can't see anything.

But this dive the robot sub was doing great. It was manuvering in bitty spaces. And you could hear the "driver" (on the ship) saying stuff like, "I"m going for it man!"

Finally they show him. He has a little joy stick box with some other little buttons. He has his ball cap on backwards, and is looking at the screen with an intensity Ive only seen in mall arcades or with kids playing Xbox.

The guy is very young, and he's really good. The scientist and divers are all but appaulding this dude as he controls this robot sub.

They then mention that he had spent a large part of his life playing games i narcades.

I'll bet his mother told him he would NEVER get a decent job if he spent all of his time playing those darn games.

I looked him up online and he's considered one of the best, even though he is one of the youngest.

So shove a joystick in your childs hand!

kittynh · 9th August 2006, 10:45 PM

which reminds me, Kitten needs an Xbox pronto!!!

Loon · 9th August 2006, 11:16 PM

More than one profession is moving this way. There was an article a few years back about how surgery and other medical procedures were becoming more and more like video games and how the training for those procedures resembled video games.

Fun fact: When I saw this article, I was working at a video game company.

alfaniner · 9th August 2006, 11:36 PM

Kinda the reason I built this thing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm-n_e3NPa8

for those adults, kids, and maybe even wheelchair-bound that still want to get some exercise without having to do the dance moves.

kittynh · 9th August 2006, 11:37 PM

the best part about this guy is he had not forgotten his roots, even on the ship. words like "dude" and "man, this is what I live for" came out of his mouth. He was dressed like a gamer in big pants and everything.

But his intensity while steering the robot, with currents, and manuvering!!

Plus he could not point the control jets where they would stir up the silt. He figured out why this one ship had been sunk, what the cargo was, everything! The scientists were going, "can you get it in there?" or "we need to see that...do you think you can do that?" He was just unblinking and saying, " no problem man...."

I loved it!

CFLarsen · 9th August 2006, 11:46 PM

Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea.

You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat...

falzer · 10th August 2006, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea.

You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat...

I remember that. Apparently what we saw in that movie was a real filesystem navigator called fsn by sgi. Since I can't post URLs, try Google searching for fsn sgi. It comes up first for me.

Cuddles · 10th August 2006, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea.

You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat...

I love films where they do that. Especially ones like Hackers where they go zooming around skyscraper type things. I wish my computer did that when I go on the net. All I get is some silly skeptic forum.

Not to derail the thread or anything...

Upchurch · 10th August 2006, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

I love films where they do that. Especially ones like Hackers where they go zooming around skyscraper type things. I wish my computer did that when I go on the net. All I get is some silly skeptic forum.

Not to derail the thread or anything...

Not to derail the thread a little more, but in Swordfish, Hugh Jackman plays a well-muscled and tan expert computer hacker who drinks wine while he works. That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything.

Overman · 10th August 2006, 08:22 AM

Many Doctors of surgery are required to play an hour of Videogames before they perform. Tightens up the ol' hand/eye.

Anacoluthon64 · 10th August 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Not to derail the thread a little more, but in Swordfish, Hugh Jackman plays a well-muscled and tan expert computer hacker who drinks wine while he works. That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything.

And not to derail the thread yet more, he manages to crack a 128-bit encryption scheme in one minute while receiving - ahem - unwelcome attention from a busty, lippy bimbo. He later breaks 512-bit encryption in the same time frame, but without the distraction. I think that we are expected to believe that 512-bit encryption is four times as strong as 128-bit, rather than 2³⁸⁴ times.

Either that, or something about the marvels of modern technology somehow ...

'Luthon64

Hellbound · 10th August 2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Anacoluthon64

And not to derail the thread yet more, he manages to crack a 128-bit encryption scheme in one minute while receiving - ahem - unwelcome attention from a busty, lippy bimbo. He later breaks 512-bit encryption in the same time frame, but without the distraction. I think that we are expected to believe that 512-bit encryption is four times as strong as 128-bit, rather than 2³⁸⁴ times.

Either that, or something about the marvels of modern technology somehow ...

'Luthon64

Well, admittedly, for some forms of 128-bit that time frame is believable (128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...). BUt yeah, pretty much unrealistic. OF course, I've never heard of encryption being broken by hand, on-the-fly either. It's typically the use of specialized code-breaking applications.

But that doesn't play well on a movie screen. Imagine an hour of the film being the main character getting a sandwich and watching a few TV sitcoms while he waits for the code-breaker program to finish

GreedyAlgorithm · 10th August 2006, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

(128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...)

Security through obscurity is no security at all. Encryption shouldn't suffer if the encrypting algorithm is published. See Kerckhoff's principle.

Edit: or did you mean some bozo published an algorithm to break it? Because if so, change to "several bozos at several times".

Rassilon · 10th August 2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Overman

Many Doctors of surgery are required to play an hour of Videogames before they perform. Tightens up the ol' hand/eye.

Is this true? I've never heard this before.

senorpogo · 10th August 2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything.

Isn't that how computers work?

Hellbound · 10th August 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by GreedyAlgorithm

Security through obscurity is no security at all. Encryption shouldn't suffer if the encrypting algorithm is published. See Kerckhoff's principle.

Edit: or did you mean some bozo published an algorithm to break it? Because if so, change to "several bozos at several times".

You are correct, I was not quite accurate in my statement

Floyt · 10th August 2006, 01:31 PM

Look ye at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_WLVO-TgA

Quite neat, and eminently suitable for presentation in movies

Anacoluthon64 · 11th August 2006, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Well, admittedly, for some forms of 128-bit that time frame is believable (128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...). BUt yeah, pretty much unrealistic. OF course, I've never heard of encryption being broken by hand, on-the-fly either. It's typically the use of specialized code-breaking applications.

Actually, the audience gets a brief glimpse of the protagonist writing what looks to be a piece of code in C, all from memory of course, and compiling and working flawlessly first time. But then he was the world's premier hacker at one time in the past...

Originally Posted by Huntsman

But that doesn't play well on a movie screen. Imagine an hour of the film being the main character getting a sandwich and watching a few TV sitcoms while he waits for the code-breaker program to finish

Indeed, but the situation is in reality much, much more dramatic. By way of illustration, the erstwhile de facto standard symmetric encryption algorithm was DES with a bit-strength of 56. Triple-DES (a.k.a. 3-DES) is the DES en- and decryption algorithms applied three times over with two separate keys, and has an effective bit-strength of 112. According to Bruce Schneier, the NSA has a dedicated piece of hardware codenamed "Deep Crack" for breaking DES encrypted messages in an expected time of 2½ days per message. For 3-DES encrypted messages, the expected time requirement for the same hardware is 3·2⁵⁶·2½ = 540,431,955,284,459,520 days, or about 100,000 times the present age of the universe (±15·10⁹ years).

'Luthon64

Hellbound · 11th August 2006, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Anacoluthon64

Indeed, but the situation is in reality much, much more dramatic. By way of illustration, the erstwhile de facto standard symmetric encryption algorithm was DES with a bit-strength of 56. Triple-DES (a.k.a. 3-DES) is the DES en- and decryption algorithms applied three times over with two separate keys, and has an effective bit-strength of 112. According to Bruce Schneier, the NSA has a dedicated piece of hardware codenamed "Deep Crack" for breaking DES encrypted messages in an expected time of 2½ days per message. For 3-DES encrypted messages, the expected time requirement for the same hardware is 3·2⁵⁶·2½ = 540,431,955,284,459,520 days, or about 100,000 times the present age of the universe (±15·10⁹ years).

'Luthon64

Yeah, I was just setting the principle

Imagine realistic computer movies:

Non-techie: "Oh my God! They're hacking into the computer system that controls the nuclear missle launch codes! And we can't turn it off!"

Computer Tech: <reaches down, pulls network cables, gets another cup of coffee>

Non-techie: "Hurry, this virus is going to destroy our computer system!"

Computer Tech: <reaches down, pulls power plug, removes hard drive, restores from backup, gets another cup of coffee>

Might be good for a few scenes in a comedy....

9th August 2006, 10:44 PM	#1
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,707	When arcade play pays off I'm watching the tv show "Mysteries of the Deep" ( or something like that) These guys go diving to find out what has happened to "lost ships" . They try to find the ships first off, and then figure out why they went down. They usually send down one of those robot subs with just a camera first. And ofcourse, the robot just kicks up a lot of silt and you can't see anything. But this dive the robot sub was doing great. It was manuvering in bitty spaces. And you could hear the "driver" (on the ship) saying stuff like, "I"m going for it man!" Finally they show him. He has a little joy stick box with some other little buttons. He has his ball cap on backwards, and is looking at the screen with an intensity Ive only seen in mall arcades or with kids playing Xbox. The guy is very young, and he's really good. The scientist and divers are all but appaulding this dude as he controls this robot sub. They then mention that he had spent a large part of his life playing games i narcades. I'll bet his mother told him he would NEVER get a decent job if he spent all of his time playing those darn games. I looked him up online and he's considered one of the best, even though he is one of the youngest. So shove a joystick in your childs hand!
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

9th August 2006, 10:45 PM	#2
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,707	which reminds me, Kitten needs an Xbox pronto!!!
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

9th August 2006, 11:16 PM	#3
Loon Med Student Roberts Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: in ur base, killin' ur d00dz Posts: 2,105	More than one profession is moving this way. There was an article a few years back about how surgery and other medical procedures were becoming more and more like video games and how the training for those procedures resembled video games. Fun fact: When I saw this article, I was working at a video game company.
	__________________ Happiness is the worst teacher. Flush Bunk Forum WoW

9th August 2006, 11:36 PM	#4
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 11,390	Kinda the reason I built this thing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm-n_e3NPa8 for those adults, kids, and maybe even wheelchair-bound that still want to get some exercise without having to do the dance moves.
	__________________ Science doesn't lie.

9th August 2006, 11:37 PM	#5
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,707	the best part about this guy is he had not forgotten his roots, even on the ship. words like "dude" and "man, this is what I live for" came out of his mouth. He was dressed like a gamer in big pants and everything. But his intensity while steering the robot, with currents, and manuvering!! Plus he could not point the control jets where they would stir up the silt. He figured out why this one ship had been sunk, what the cargo was, everything! The scientists were going, "can you get it in there?" or "we need to see that...do you think you can do that?" He was just unblinking and saying, " no problem man...." I loved it!
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

9th August 2006, 11:46 PM	#6
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea. You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat...
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

10th August 2006, 12:13 AM	#7
falzer New Blood Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 15	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea. You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat... I remember that. Apparently what we saw in that movie was a real filesystem navigator called fsn by sgi. Since I can't post URLs, try Google searching for fsn sgi. It comes up first for me.

10th August 2006, 07:43 AM	#8
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,591	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Reminds me of the scene in Jurassic Park, where Alex, the girl, saves the day by plonking herself in front of a computer, says "I know this, it's a UNIX", and is able to find the needle-in-a-haystack file in moments, navigating through a 3D "file system", a thoroughly idiotic idea. You could hear groans from various parts of the theatre: That's where the computer people sat... I love films where they do that. Especially ones like Hackers where they go zooming around skyscraper type things. I wish my computer did that when I go on the net. All I get is some silly skeptic forum. Not to derail the thread or anything...
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

10th August 2006, 08:20 AM	#9
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,426	Originally Posted by Cuddles I love films where they do that. Especially ones like Hackers where they go zooming around skyscraper type things. I wish my computer did that when I go on the net. All I get is some silly skeptic forum. Not to derail the thread or anything... Not to derail the thread a little more, but in Swordfish, Hugh Jackman plays a well-muscled and tan expert computer hacker who drinks wine while he works. That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything.

10th August 2006, 08:22 AM	#10
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,630	Many Doctors of surgery are required to play an hour of Videogames before they perform. Tightens up the ol' hand/eye.
	__________________ Our new album 'The Future is Gonna be Great' on iTunes!!! Our old 'The Evolution EP' still on iTunes

10th August 2006, 09:17 AM	#11
Anacoluthon64 Defollyant Iconoclast Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sceptylvania Posts: 1,026	Originally Posted by Upchurch Not to derail the thread a little more, but in Swordfish, Hugh Jackman plays a well-muscled and tan expert computer hacker who drinks wine while he works. That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything. And not to derail the thread yet more, he manages to crack a 128-bit encryption scheme in one minute while receiving - ahem - unwelcome attention from a busty, lippy bimbo. He later breaks 512-bit encryption in the same time frame, but without the distraction. I think that we are expected to believe that 512-bit encryption is four times as strong as 128-bit, rather than 2³⁸⁴ times. Either that, or something about the marvels of modern technology somehow ... 'Luthon64
	__________________ "The cynics were watchdogs terrifying malefactors. They tried to expose falseness and conceit. That's why their name is still spoken with a snarl." — Petr Skrabanek, In Defence of Destructive Criticism.

10th August 2006, 10:35 AM	#12
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,930	Originally Posted by Anacoluthon64 And not to derail the thread yet more, he manages to crack a 128-bit encryption scheme in one minute while receiving - ahem - unwelcome attention from a busty, lippy bimbo. He later breaks 512-bit encryption in the same time frame, but without the distraction. I think that we are expected to believe that 512-bit encryption is four times as strong as 128-bit, rather than 2³⁸⁴ times. Either that, or something about the marvels of modern technology somehow ... 'Luthon64 Well, admittedly, for some forms of 128-bit that time frame is believable (128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...). BUt yeah, pretty much unrealistic. OF course, I've never heard of encryption being broken by hand, on-the-fly either. It's typically the use of specialized code-breaking applications. But that doesn't play well on a movie screen. Imagine an hour of the film being the main character getting a sandwich and watching a few TV sitcoms while he waits for the code-breaker program to finish

10th August 2006, 10:51 AM	#13
GreedyAlgorithm Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 569	Originally Posted by Huntsman (128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...) Security through obscurity is no security at all. Encryption shouldn't suffer if the encrypting algorithm is published. See Kerckhoff's principle. Edit: or did you mean some bozo published an algorithm to break it? Because if so, change to "several bozos at several times".
	__________________ while(true);

10th August 2006, 12:04 PM	#14
Rassilon Student Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ames, IA, USA Posts: 43	Originally Posted by Overman Many Doctors of surgery are required to play an hour of Videogames before they perform. Tightens up the ol' hand/eye. Is this true? I've never heard this before.

10th August 2006, 12:08 PM	#15
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,094	Originally Posted by Upchurch That aside, whatever it is he is supposed to be doing has an interface that looks more like a child's logic game (a la, place the round object in the round hole) than anything. Isn't that how computers work?

10th August 2006, 12:23 PM	#16
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,930	Originally Posted by GreedyAlgorithm Security through obscurity is no security at all. Encryption shouldn't suffer if the encrypting algorithm is published. See Kerckhoff's principle. Edit: or did you mean some bozo published an algorithm to break it? Because if so, change to "several bozos at several times". You are correct, I was not quite accurate in my statement

10th August 2006, 01:31 PM	#17
Floyt Chordate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cape Town! Not mugged yet. Looking for chameleons. Posts: 1,428	Look ye at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_WLVO-TgA Quite neat, and eminently suitable for presentation in movies
	__________________ They had no god; they had no gods; they had no faith. What they appear to have had is a working metaphor. - Ursula K. Le Guin, "Always Coming Home"

11th August 2006, 04:48 AM	#18
Anacoluthon64 Defollyant Iconoclast Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sceptylvania Posts: 1,026	Originally Posted by Huntsman Well, admittedly, for some forms of 128-bit that time frame is believable (128 bit WEP, for example, will go in about 7 to 12 seconds...mainly because some bozo published the algorithm...). BUt yeah, pretty much unrealistic. OF course, I've never heard of encryption being broken by hand, on-the-fly either. It's typically the use of specialized code-breaking applications. Actually, the audience gets a brief glimpse of the protagonist writing what looks to be a piece of code in C, all from memory of course, and compiling and working flawlessly first time. But then he was the world's premier hacker at one time in the past... Originally Posted by Huntsman But that doesn't play well on a movie screen. Imagine an hour of the film being the main character getting a sandwich and watching a few TV sitcoms while he waits for the code-breaker program to finish Indeed, but the situation is in reality much, much more dramatic. By way of illustration, the erstwhile de facto standard symmetric encryption algorithm was DES with a bit-strength of 56. Triple-DES (a.k.a. 3-DES) is the DES en- and decryption algorithms applied three times over with two separate keys, and has an effective bit-strength of 112. According to Bruce Schneier, the NSA has a dedicated piece of hardware codenamed "Deep Crack" for breaking DES encrypted messages in an expected time of 2½ days per message. For 3-DES encrypted messages, the expected time requirement for the same hardware is 3·2⁵⁶·2½ = 540,431,955,284,459,520 days, or about 100,000 times the present age of the universe (±15·10⁹ years). 'Luthon64
	__________________ "The cynics were watchdogs terrifying malefactors. They tried to expose falseness and conceit. That's why their name is still spoken with a snarl." — Petr Skrabanek, In Defence of Destructive Criticism.

11th August 2006, 07:00 AM	#19
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,930	Originally Posted by Anacoluthon64 Indeed, but the situation is in reality much, much more dramatic. By way of illustration, the erstwhile de facto standard symmetric encryption algorithm was DES with a bit-strength of 56. Triple-DES (a.k.a. 3-DES) is the DES en- and decryption algorithms applied three times over with two separate keys, and has an effective bit-strength of 112. According to Bruce Schneier, the NSA has a dedicated piece of hardware codenamed "Deep Crack" for breaking DES encrypted messages in an expected time of 2½ days per message. For 3-DES encrypted messages, the expected time requirement for the same hardware is 3·2⁵⁶·2½ = 540,431,955,284,459,520 days, or about 100,000 times the present age of the universe (±15·10⁹ years). 'Luthon64 Yeah, I was just setting the principle Imagine realistic computer movies: Non-techie: "Oh my God! They're hacking into the computer system that controls the nuclear missle launch codes! And we can't turn it off!" Computer Tech: <reaches down, pulls network cables, gets another cup of coffee> Non-techie: "Hurry, this virus is going to destroy our computer system!" Computer Tech: <reaches down, pulls power plug, removes hard drive, restores from backup, gets another cup of coffee> Might be good for a few scenes in a comedy....