Frequently Dumb Theories - A 9/11 written document I'm doing

[MarkyX]

You know FAQs? I'm doing a FDT for 9/11.

All I need is some people to slap in a theory or two, and perhaps a source. I'll deal with the answers (although if it's somewhat complex, post it here).

So if you have any theories that are commonly bought in message boards by idiots, post it here and I may add it to the list.

Pictures will also do.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Oh gawd...

Where to begin?

If you're dealing with idiots, Spooked911 is an obvious place to start. While his theories themselves are no less stupid than the rest, his experiments are absolutely retarded.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...&mesg_id=56836

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com...ng-part-2.html

[MarkyX]

I'm looking for ones that are commonly used in message boards and debates. I don't care about KillTown's 200 lists or anything.

It needs to be common, not off the wall that even the deniers themselves think is stupid.

Here is an example

Some of the hijackers are still alive!

This is based on a BBC report on September 23, 2001. We are in the 2006, and much information has been gathered since then. Some of the hijackers listed on the BBC are simple mistaken identifications. Not every Arab name is unique, just like they are many "Marks" and "Michaels" in Western Societies.

In 2002, the Saudi Arabia embassy confirmed that 15 of the 19 hijackers were indeed Saudis and their families have been notified.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/02/06/saudi.htm

No one else has reported that the hijackers are still alive ever since that report. You think they would take the opportunity to destroy the official story and make the United States look like fools.

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html

[kookbreaker]

"It looks like demolition?"

"Why is the hole at the Pentagon too small?"

"Give me another building that collapsed from fire...no..that one doesn't count!"

"Squibs!"

[kookbreaker]

Is this a duplication of what 911myths covers or what?

[MarkyX]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Is this a duplication of what 911myths covers or what?

Somewhat. It's supposed to be a very quick breakdown instead of reading twenty sources about it. A summary if you will.

It's more focused on what's being talked about in message boards instead of just general theories though. I'm not trying to oust Mike here, but it's something I want to slap into 9/11 Deniers when they bring a stupid subject up. Not a lot of people bring up Barbara Olsen or the hijackers being trained by the government, but they sure like to bring up that "explosive quotes" often or the hijackings being alive.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The claim that the FBI is no longer seeking Osama Bin Laden for 9-11.

The nutters repeat it often but when asked where the FBI said "We no longer consider OBL a suspect in 9-11" they never deliver.

[Bronze Dog]

I'd like to know more about the dumptruck(s) full of gold.

[MarkyX]

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

The claim that the FBI is no longer seeking Osama Bin Laden for 9-11.

The nutters repeat it often but when asked where the FBI said "We no longer consider OBL a suspect in 9-11" they never deliver.

Going to need more info on that on. Any press releases?

[Joytown]

Just off the top of my head:

1) WTC 1 2 and 7 all fell faster than "free fall"

2) There were no "hot enough to melt steel", raging fires in the WTC towers 1 & 2 - usually accompanied with the shot of that poor lady standing in the gaping hole where the plane went in - ignoring that fact that a wide shot would show huge fires all around her and that no-one says that the steel melted.

3) How can 19 Hijackers with boxcutters defeat the largest, most expensive defense organization in the world.

4) There's no proof of a 757 at the Pentagon. You could play golf on the lawn in front of the raging fires!

5) The PEntagon is the most heavily defended building the the world, and had operational air defense batteries protecting it on 9/11.

6) No way Hani Hanjour could have made the manouvers he made and hit the Pentagon in the exact spot he hit it - right where they just completed upgrading the building!

[Bronze Dog]

Quote:

1) WTC 1 2 and 7 all fell faster than "free fall"

Because we all know every bit of rubble had a gyro stabilized rocket thruster adding downward acceleration attached to it.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Going to need more info on that on. Any press releases?

That's just it... there aren't any!


The nutters base this claim on two minor facts; some FBI guy said something about not having sufficient evidence against Bin Laden and OBLs wanted poster makes no mention of 9-11.

From this they get "FBI sez Bin Laden didn't do 9-11".

[gumboot]

Originally Posted by Joytown

6) No way Hani Hanjour could have made the manouvers he made and hit the Pentagon in the exact spot he hit it - right where they just completed upgrading the building!

As an add on to that, the common claim that the section that was hit was "under construction" and only construction workers were killed.

A brief glance over the ranks of those killed will quickly dispell this myth... this section had been completely renovated and was fully occupied.

-Andrew

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

I'm not trying to oust Mike here

s'okay, more formats, presentations and styles we have, the better!

[defaultdotxbe]

one that has been particularly annoying me of late:

"we're the skeptics"

not really a "theory," per se, but its soemthing they commonly throw out

am i wrong is assuming a skeptic should be considerate of all possibilities? Cters never consider the notion that they might be wrong, i brought this up at the LC boards (asking how they would react to a second investigation that upheld the conclusions of the first) and must have hit a nerve, not only was i suspended but the whole thread was removed

anyone who disagrees with them is automatically a sheep, shill or short sighted....but THEY'RE the skeptics

[Brainster]

The official story is a conspiracy theory!

Why were there so few people on the planes?

The cellphone calls could not have been made.

[Joytown]

The WTC Towers fell symmetically into neat little piles in their own footprints.

[MarkyX]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4EO3SJ2G

This is what I have so far. In PDF format.

[defaultdotxbe]

mirrored, because things like megaupload piss me off:

http://xbehome.com/screwloosechange/...oronsPart1.pdf

[Blue Mountain]

Minor nit in an otherwise excellent document:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

The steel framed McCormick Center was at the time the World's largest exhibition center. It like the WTC used long steel trusses to create a large open space without columns. Those trusses were unprotected but of course the WTC lost it's fire protection due to the impacts.

(It's/its mixup)

[tacodaemon]

You've definitely got to get "pools of molten metal" vs. "pools of molten steel" in there. But check up on these CT'er references.

[gumboot]

Ooooh...

You're missing one...

"Multiple wargames caused NORAD to stand down"

False! There was a real-world operation called "Operation Northern Vigilance" which involved moving aircraft to Alaska and Canada to keep an eye on a major Russian long-range bomber exercise in Siberia.

There was also a NORAD sponsored yearly exercise called "Guardian" consisting of two CPXs (Command Post Exercises) - US Space Command ("Vigilant Guardian") and US Strategic Command ("Global Guardian"). This exercise did not involve any operational units, however it did mean all command post staff were at their desks when the hijackings occured, resulting in a rapid transition from exercise to real-world.

Neither the Guardian Exercises nor Operation Northern Vigilance involved the 14 fighter aircraft rostered for Armed Alert Station duty across the Continental USA.

-Andrew

[Class]

Pentagon security gate camera does not show a 757

Hole in Shanksville is too small for a 757 to have crashed there

President Bush stayed in the school in Florida instead of being evacuated by the Secret Service because he knew about 9/11

Larry Silverstein admitting on national television to have "pulled" WTC 7

President Bush admitted to seeing first plane crash into WTC live before going into Florida classroom

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4EO3SJ2G

This is what I have so far. In PDF format.

You might want to name the 'High Rise in Philadelphia' it was the Meridian Plaza.

[MustangGT]

Bumble Planes?

[eeyore1954]

Picture of WTC with top 10 percent diagrammed saying this had to crush this (rest of tower) in 13 seconds If you are not sure of what i mean ( although I would suspect you have seen it) See the picture in Loose change debating forum post by Jenabell on Aug 11 2006, 12:08 AM in pancake theory dead to rights. As if it would be physically impossible without explosives. This diagram bothers me because people look at it and think gee maybe that is true.

I should link them to a video of one domino knocking over 1000 saying this (a picture of a domino) did this. even though the analogy has some faults.

[Johnny Pixels]

Originally Posted by eeyore1954

Picture of WTC with top 10 percent diagrammed saying this had to crush this (rest of tower) in 13 seconds If you are not sure of what i mean ( although I would suspect you have seen it) See the picture in Loose change debating forum post by Jenabell on Aug 11 2006, 12:08 AM in pancake theory dead to rights. As if it would be physically impossible without explosives. This diagram bothers me because people look at it and think gee maybe that is true.

I should link them to a video of one domino knocking over 1000 saying this (a picture of a domino) did this. even though the analogy has some faults.

Welcome to the forum eeyore, I've read some of your posts over at the LC forums, hopefully you'll find more logic and less, well, rubbish here.

[chipmunk stew]

Norman Mineta testified that Dick Cheney gave an order not to shoot down flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon.


The truth: Mineta testified that he overheard a conversation between Cheney and a young man, in which the young man was giving updates on a plane's approach. The young man asked Cheney, "Does the order still stand?" Cheney responded affirmatively.

Mineta made the assumption that the plane was flight 77 and that the order was a shoot down order.

CTers make the assumption that the plane was flight 77 and that the order was a do not shoot down order.

[MarkyX]

Anyone got a good scientist site talking about the molten metal in the WTC?

And I saw the picture in the Usual Suspects where Osama is writing with his right hand, where can I find that?

[MarkyX]

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Norman Mineta testified that Dick Cheney gave an order not to shoot down flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon.


The truth: Mineta testified that he overheard a conversation between Cheney and a young man, in which the young man was giving updates on a plane's approach. The young man asked Cheney, "Does the order still stand?" Cheney responded affirmatively.

Mineta made the assumption that the plane was flight 77 and that the order was a shoot down order.

CTers make the assumption that the plane was flight 77 and that the order was a do not shoot down order.

I'm giong to need hard evidence for this one. Got a link to the Mineta assuming it was a shoot down?

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

And I saw the picture in the Usual Suspects where Osama is writing with his right hand, where can I find that?

I've a picture at http://www.911myths.com/html/bin_lad...t_handed_.html , plus a smaller clip to download if you like.

[MarkyX]

It wasn't specifically that one, it was just a picture. It is shown before that small clip in The Usual Suspects

EDIT: Nevermind, screenscapped instead. Hopefully it's clear enough.

[negativ]

WTC owner had gazillion dollar insurance policy

Mark Bingham isn't on the Filght 93 manifest

Phonecalls were faked

Flight 93 landed in Ohio

PNAC

Bush simultaneously evil genius criminal mastermind, and bumbling inept moron dumber than box of hammers

[chipmunk stew]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

I'm giong to need hard evidence for this one. Got a link to the Mineta assuming it was a shoot down?

From http://www.9-11commission.gov/archiv....htm#panel_one

Quote:

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.
And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

[MarkyX]

http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/Fre...heories-D1.pdf

Updated

[Legalduck]

Thermite was used to bring down the WTC (and associated BS such that thermite is an explosive) ...OR that the WTC was constructed using explosives as building materials (C4 mixed with concrete or wrapped around the supports). I can't remember if it was geggy or christophera who proposed that one. I'm too lazy to look.

[MarkyX]

Okay, need some good information on the wargames, from official sources and the timeline for each one.

[Kent1]

Originally Posted by MarkyX

http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/Fre...heories-D1.pdf

Updated

One possible error, Jones believes that SUPER-thermite was used. Super-thermite explodes.
(I've never seen this in action of cource, but thats the claim.)
He explains some of his ideas here
http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Fetzer/0608/2...hu_Fetzer2.mp3

You'll here some other crappy myths in this audio file. The Michael Chertoff myth etc.....

[MarkyX]

Going to need some help with Flight 93. It's probably my weakest one.

Does anyone know some good 'common theories' and answers to them? Anything will do.

[T.A.M.]

Pulverized Concrete prior to complete colapse = Controlled Demolition. This one always rots me.