Cards

tomgv15 · 15th August 2006, 03:55 PM

I've just started working card tricks. The cards get marked, altered and worn. How do magicians treat their card decks? I recently visited Magicopolis in L.A. and asked the attending gentleman this question and he showed me a seriously worked over deck;some good tricks with it, too.

Is it necessary to perform with a crisp clean full deck?

I've been practicing with Bicycle cards.

I've also started having fun buying novelty cards. Two of my favorites are made by U.S. Games Systems - Highlanders - 1864 Poker Deck & The Square Deal - the cards are squares.
.

Dinsdale Piranha · 15th August 2006, 04:17 PM

I just try to keep my hands clean and not get the deck wet. This can be a problem when working a bar.

Some sleights are easier to do with a deck in good condition. For me it's especially difficult when the cards are worn and tend to stick together.
If someone hands me a deck in that condition, I try to do tricks with easy or no sleights.

I usually don't like a brand new deck. For me, they tend to be a little too slick. I like to break in a new deck a bit first.

In general, Bicycle is the way to go. People recognize them and don't automatically think "trick cards".

tomgv15 · 15th August 2006, 04:26 PM

Thank you, DP, your comments are helpful. Do you have a large number of cards on hand, or just buy them as you need?

Dinsdale Piranha · 15th August 2006, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by tomgv15

Thank you, DP, your comments are helpful. Do you have a large number of cards on hand, or just buy them as you need?

I usually get mine from Costco. They come in a box of 12 (IIRC) decks, half red, half blue.

My old cards I'll use to practice tricks like card warp, torn and restored card, or if I need duplicates for any reason.

tomgv15 · 15th August 2006, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dinsdale Piranha

I usually get mine from Costco. They come in a box of 12 (IIRC) decks, half red, half blue.

My old cards I'll use to practice tricks like card warp, torn and restored card, or if I need duplicates for any reason.

Thanks for the organizational tip. It helps me figure out how to manage this wonderful skill.

Dinsdale Piranha · 15th August 2006, 06:11 PM

Glad to help.

If there are any instructional books/videos you'd like recommended just let me know.

tomgv15 · 15th August 2006, 07:14 PM

Thanks again. Time for more progress.

BPScooter · 16th August 2006, 10:41 PM

I've always had trouble because I have rather narrow hands, and so many of the classic sleights seem to assume that you can easily cover a deck with your hand. I don't like poker decks for that reason, and the narrower (is it "bridge") decks work out best for me. On another note, I do have a plastic coated deck that I treated with fanning powder and it's really fun to do fans and flourishes with, I save it just for that and try not to mess with it too much.

tomgv15 · 17th August 2006, 10:01 PM

Fanning powder...cool. Cheap, too!

Tim Van Haitsma · 18th August 2006, 08:04 AM

I use my decks till the pack case falls apart. I always carry it in my pocket and usually my card case is the first to go.

I also use the old cards to practice card warp, mercury fold and torn and restored.

There is a metal clip that is very popular for cardicans. It is basicly a U shaped stainless steel clip. It covers the hole deck in a vise like grip. So it protects and takes out any crips/brigdes out of the car.

rwp · 8th September 2006, 04:57 PM

I might stop trying to learn card tricks from books and pick up a few DVDs soon.

A book I have mentions the Kelly Bottom Replacement/Ovette's Master Move as a small part of another trick but I have been unable to find the move in the same book or another that I own (the Expert at the Card Table).

It is mentioned casually as if I should have been born with this knowledge and I imagine it is somewhat simple yet I want to be sure of it. I have found some workarounds for this move but it would be nice to understand the original. If you know this move, could you please let me know the basics of it?

Thanks for reading.

Josh Redstone · 11th September 2006, 09:47 AM

rwp - DVDs are nice since you get to see a real live effect being done, instead of trying to figure it out from pictures in a book (books are still very helpful though)

Anyway, I use bicycle cards and I try to keep the sweat from my hands from getting all over them. In my very limited magical experience, nothing makes cards more unusable than getting them all gummed up with sweat. So I guess my advice would be to try to keep your hands dry when performing, and to put the cards away when your not doing an effect. That way you're not getting them all sweaty by holding onto them.

Stray Cat · 12th September 2006, 05:38 PM

I also use Bridge sized cards mostly - One advantage when performing for magicians is that Bicycle cards are the standard but to my knowledge no one produces 'trick' decks in bridge size.

I always try to have at least two decks on the go (one I use constantly in quiet moments for practicing moves and flourishes maybe while watching TV or some other mindless pastime and one in my coat pocket so I'm always ready when out and about to perform if required). I do break them in quite a bit before using them to perform and I find that rotating the decks helps get most use out of them.
Brand new: Practice Moves and Flourishes
Broken in: Perform tricks for audiences
Dead: Use for torn and restord, card warp etc

I have a drawer full of dead cards.

Yes novelty cards can be good but not just for the sake of novelty. Try and use their novelty to emphasise a storyline in a trick, or maybe they have unique qualities. I have a deck that is printed on clear acetate so they are actually see through, this makes a great effect when full advantage of it is utilised.

Good Luck

Bob Klase · 12th September 2006, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

I also use Bridge sized cards mostly - One advantage when performing for magicians is that Bicycle cards are the standard but to my knowledge no one produces 'trick' decks in bridge size.

In the 60's and 70's (even into the 80's), it was almost impossible to find 'trick' decks or cards in poker size. It was also very hard to find any non-standard cards with Bicycle backs. When US Playing Card Co relaxed their ban on making 'magic' decks, it didn't take long before it got more difficult to find anything that wasn't poker size Bicycle backs.

But you can still get trick decks/cards in bridge size, usually with Aviator/Fox Lake backs.

I think when performing for magicians it makes no difference whether you're using Bicycle cards or not.

Stray Cat · 13th September 2006, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

In the 60's and 70's (even into the 80's), it was almost impossible to find 'trick' decks or cards in poker size. It was also very hard to find any non-standard cards with Bicycle backs. When US Playing Card Co relaxed their ban on making 'magic' decks, it didn't take long before it got more difficult to find anything that wasn't poker size Bicycle backs.

But you can still get trick decks/cards in bridge size, usually with Aviator/Fox Lake backs.

I think when performing for magicians it makes no difference whether you're using Bicycle cards or not.

Yes point taken Bob - Maybe I wasn't being clear enough, I know that you can get 'unbranded' bridge size cards which are 'trick' decks, usually cheap chinese imports or the 'Marvin's Magic' kind. I'd be interested to find out where I could get bicycle quality (US playing card Co.) 'blank' bridge sized cards from as this is the only thing I miss using bridge sized cards and none of my usual magic suppliers seem to be able to help? Cheers.

Bob Klase · 13th September 2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

I'd be interested to find out where I could get bicycle quality (US playing card Co.) 'blank' bridge sized cards from as this is the only thing I miss using bridge sized cards and none of my usual magic suppliers seem to be able to help? Cheers.

Have you checked with with Haines House of Card
http://www.haineshoc.com/
They have blank face bridge cards listed on their web site, but I can't determine if they're Bicycles. You might have to call them, but they're helpful.

Stray Cat · 13th September 2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Have you checked with with Haines House of Card
http://www.haineshoc.com/
They have blank face bridge cards listed on their web site, but I can't determine if they're Bicycles. You might have to call them, but they're helpful.

Thanks

I will do when I get a minute.

MagicFan · 14th September 2006, 10:25 PM

I guess that's another advantage to the so-called "self-working" effects...no sleights requiring crisp cards, so any old deck will do.

Alareth · 20th September 2006, 12:58 AM

Any reccomendations on "breaking in" a new deck?

Stray Cat · 20th September 2006, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by Alareth

Any reccomendations on "breaking in" a new deck?

McBride goes into his method in the video series "The Art of Card Manipulation" but that's way too over the top unless your routine requires back palming lots of cards and other moves that require a very flexible deck.

Like I said earlier, my best way is to sit watching TV with a deck in my hands and just practice shuffling and fanning them, one hand cuts, one hand shuffles, fancy flourishes. This achieves several things in my opinion:
1. Breaks the cards in quite naturally
2. Allows you to develop and improve your shuffles and flourishes without missing out on all that mindless TV
3. It helps you to handle cards as if it's second nature to you. If you can do all the moves whilst watching TV, it means you're not going to be "Burning Your Own Hands" when doing a trick.

Hope this helps.

15th August 2006, 03:55 PM	#1
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239	Cards I've just started working card tricks. The cards get marked, altered and worn. How do magicians treat their card decks? I recently visited Magicopolis in L.A. and asked the attending gentleman this question and he showed me a seriously worked over deck;some good tricks with it, too. Is it necessary to perform with a crisp clean full deck? I've been practicing with Bicycle cards. I've also started having fun buying novelty cards. Two of my favorites are made by U.S. Games Systems - Highlanders - 1864 Poker Deck & The Square Deal - the cards are squares. .
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239

15th August 2006, 04:17 PM	#2
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	I just try to keep my hands clean and not get the deck wet. This can be a problem when working a bar. Some sleights are easier to do with a deck in good condition. For me it's especially difficult when the cards are worn and tend to stick together. If someone hands me a deck in that condition, I try to do tricks with easy or no sleights. I usually don't like a brand new deck. For me, they tend to be a little too slick. I like to break in a new deck a bit first. In general, Bicycle is the way to go. People recognize them and don't automatically think "trick cards".
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

15th August 2006, 04:26 PM	#3
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239	Thank you, DP, your comments are helpful. Do you have a large number of cards on hand, or just buy them as you need?
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239

15th August 2006, 04:30 PM	#4
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	Originally Posted by tomgv15 Thank you, DP, your comments are helpful. Do you have a large number of cards on hand, or just buy them as you need? I usually get mine from Costco. They come in a box of 12 (IIRC) decks, half red, half blue. My old cards I'll use to practice tricks like card warp, torn and restored card, or if I need duplicates for any reason.
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

15th August 2006, 05:56 PM	#5
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239	Originally Posted by Dinsdale Piranha I usually get mine from Costco. They come in a box of 12 (IIRC) decks, half red, half blue. My old cards I'll use to practice tricks like card warp, torn and restored card, or if I need duplicates for any reason. Thanks for the organizational tip. It helps me figure out how to manage this wonderful skill.
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239

15th August 2006, 06:11 PM	#6
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	Glad to help. If there are any instructional books/videos you'd like recommended just let me know.
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

15th August 2006, 07:14 PM	#7
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239	Thanks again. Time for more progress.
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239

16th August 2006, 10:41 PM	#8
BPScooter Muse Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 783	I've always had trouble because I have rather narrow hands, and so many of the classic sleights seem to assume that you can easily cover a deck with your hand. I don't like poker decks for that reason, and the narrower (is it "bridge") decks work out best for me. On another note, I do have a plastic coated deck that I treated with fanning powder and it's really fun to do fans and flourishes with, I save it just for that and try not to mess with it too much.
BPScooter Muse Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 783

17th August 2006, 10:01 PM	#9
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239	Fanning powder...cool. Cheap, too!
tomgv15 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 239

18th August 2006, 08:04 AM	#10
Tim Van Haitsma New Blood Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 7	I use my decks till the pack case falls apart. I always carry it in my pocket and usually my card case is the first to go. I also use the old cards to practice card warp, mercury fold and torn and restored. There is a metal clip that is very popular for cardicans. It is basicly a U shaped stainless steel clip. It covers the hole deck in a vise like grip. So it protects and takes out any crips/brigdes out of the car.
	__________________ "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

8th September 2006, 04:57 PM	#11
rwp Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 209	Kelly Bottom Replacement/Ovette's Master Move I might stop trying to learn card tricks from books and pick up a few DVDs soon. A book I have mentions the Kelly Bottom Replacement/Ovette's Master Move as a small part of another trick but I have been unable to find the move in the same book or another that I own (the Expert at the Card Table). It is mentioned casually as if I should have been born with this knowledge and I imagine it is somewhat simple yet I want to be sure of it. I have found some workarounds for this move but it would be nice to understand the original. If you know this move, could you please let me know the basics of it? Thanks for reading.

11th September 2006, 09:47 AM	#12
Josh Redstone Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 205	rwp - DVDs are nice since you get to see a real live effect being done, instead of trying to figure it out from pictures in a book (books are still very helpful though) Anyway, I use bicycle cards and I try to keep the sweat from my hands from getting all over them. In my very limited magical experience, nothing makes cards more unusable than getting them all gummed up with sweat. So I guess my advice would be to try to keep your hands dry when performing, and to put the cards away when your not doing an effect. That way you're not getting them all sweaty by holding onto them.

12th September 2006, 05:38 PM	#13
Stray Cat Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 668	I also use Bridge sized cards mostly - One advantage when performing for magicians is that Bicycle cards are the standard but to my knowledge no one produces 'trick' decks in bridge size. I always try to have at least two decks on the go (one I use constantly in quiet moments for practicing moves and flourishes maybe while watching TV or some other mindless pastime and one in my coat pocket so I'm always ready when out and about to perform if required). I do break them in quite a bit before using them to perform and I find that rotating the decks helps get most use out of them. Brand new: Practice Moves and Flourishes Broken in: Perform tricks for audiences Dead: Use for torn and restord, card warp etc I have a drawer full of dead cards. Yes novelty cards can be good but not just for the sake of novelty. Try and use their novelty to emphasise a storyline in a trick, or maybe they have unique qualities. I have a deck that is printed on clear acetate so they are actually see through, this makes a great effect when full advantage of it is utilised. Good Luck

12th September 2006, 06:19 PM	#14
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by Stray Cat I also use Bridge sized cards mostly - One advantage when performing for magicians is that Bicycle cards are the standard but to my knowledge no one produces 'trick' decks in bridge size. In the 60's and 70's (even into the 80's), it was almost impossible to find 'trick' decks or cards in poker size. It was also very hard to find any non-standard cards with Bicycle backs. When US Playing Card Co relaxed their ban on making 'magic' decks, it didn't take long before it got more difficult to find anything that wasn't poker size Bicycle backs. But you can still get trick decks/cards in bridge size, usually with Aviator/Fox Lake backs. I think when performing for magicians it makes no difference whether you're using Bicycle cards or not.

13th September 2006, 12:51 AM	#15
Stray Cat Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 668	Originally Posted by Bob Klase In the 60's and 70's (even into the 80's), it was almost impossible to find 'trick' decks or cards in poker size. It was also very hard to find any non-standard cards with Bicycle backs. When US Playing Card Co relaxed their ban on making 'magic' decks, it didn't take long before it got more difficult to find anything that wasn't poker size Bicycle backs. But you can still get trick decks/cards in bridge size, usually with Aviator/Fox Lake backs. I think when performing for magicians it makes no difference whether you're using Bicycle cards or not. Yes point taken Bob - Maybe I wasn't being clear enough, I know that you can get 'unbranded' bridge size cards which are 'trick' decks, usually cheap chinese imports or the 'Marvin's Magic' kind. I'd be interested to find out where I could get bicycle quality (US playing card Co.) 'blank' bridge sized cards from as this is the only thing I miss using bridge sized cards and none of my usual magic suppliers seem to be able to help? Cheers.

13th September 2006, 08:32 AM	#16
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by Stray Cat I'd be interested to find out where I could get bicycle quality (US playing card Co.) 'blank' bridge sized cards from as this is the only thing I miss using bridge sized cards and none of my usual magic suppliers seem to be able to help? Cheers. Have you checked with with Haines House of Card http://www.haineshoc.com/ They have blank face bridge cards listed on their web site, but I can't determine if they're Bicycles. You might have to call them, but they're helpful.

13th September 2006, 10:27 AM	#17
Stray Cat Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 668	Originally Posted by Bob Klase Have you checked with with Haines House of Card http://www.haineshoc.com/ They have blank face bridge cards listed on their web site, but I can't determine if they're Bicycles. You might have to call them, but they're helpful. Thanks I will do when I get a minute.

14th September 2006, 10:25 PM	#18
MagicFan Student Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 26	I guess that's another advantage to the so-called "self-working" effects...no sleights requiring crisp cards, so any old deck will do.
MagicFan Student Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 26	__________________ Why must flowers die? So that others may have a chance to bloom. Why is that so hard for us to accept?

20th September 2006, 12:58 AM	#19
Alareth Sarcasm Distribution System Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mississippi Posts: 4,045	Any reccomendations on "breaking in" a new deck?
	__________________ Stellar Visions \| Stop Sylvia Browne \| Alareth Does Art! Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak "Hi mjd[1982]. Don't worry about breaking any news to us, you're really in very little danger of ever doing that." - Stellafane

20th September 2006, 03:50 AM	#20
Stray Cat Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 668	Originally Posted by Alareth Any reccomendations on "breaking in" a new deck? McBride goes into his method in the video series "The Art of Card Manipulation" but that's way too over the top unless your routine requires back palming lots of cards and other moves that require a very flexible deck. Like I said earlier, my best way is to sit watching TV with a deck in my hands and just practice shuffling and fanning them, one hand cuts, one hand shuffles, fancy flourishes. This achieves several things in my opinion: 1. Breaks the cards in quite naturally 2. Allows you to develop and improve your shuffles and flourishes without missing out on all that mindless TV 3. It helps you to handle cards as if it's second nature to you. If you can do all the moves whilst watching TV, it means you're not going to be "Burning Your Own Hands" when doing a trick. Hope this helps.