CIA, crack, Contras CT?

jimtron · 18th August 2006, 08:13 PM

The LA Times has an article about the CT involving the CIA, Contra Rebels, and crack cocaine in the U.S.:

Quote:

The three-part series by reporter Gary Webb linked the CIA and Nicaragua's Contras to the crack cocaine epidemic that ripped through South Los Angeles in the 1980s.

Most of the nation's elite newspapers at first ignored the story. A public uproar, especially among urban African Americans, forced them to respond. What followed was one of the most bizarre, unseemly and ultimately tragic scandals in the annals of American journalism, one in which top news organizations closed ranks to debunk claims Webb never made, ridicule assertions that turned out to be true and ignore corroborating evidence when it came to light. The whole shameful cycle was repeated when Webb committed suicide in December 2004.

pipelineaudio · 19th August 2006, 01:39 AM

This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking

Gravy · 19th August 2006, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking

Why not tell people what "slag fairy" means, instead of making them search for the meaning?

Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky"

Is that your characterization of everyone here except you and andyandy?

If this issue interests you, and you have some debunking to do, why not dispense with insults and present your case?

Stellafane · 19th August 2006, 05:22 AM

Ain't no slag fairy (well, maybe the "L") , and don't know much about the details of Webb's story. But the following quote gives me pause (bolding mine):

Quote:

...What followed was one of the most bizarre, unseemly and ultimately tragic scandals in the annals of American journalism, one in which top news organizations closed ranks to debunk claims Webb never made, ridicule assertions that turned out to be true and ignore corroborating evidence when it came to light...

From what I've seen, news organizations never close ranks -- they're at each other's throats in fierce competition. If a story has even the whiff of authenticity, and has the potential to draw eyeballs to the news provider, someone will run with it, the sooner the better. As soon as I see a theory that requires mass collusion on the part of the news industry, I immediately become extremely suspicious.

brodski · 19th August 2006, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Why not tell people what "slag fairy" means, instead of making them search for the meaning?

Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky"

Is that your characterization of everyone here except you and andyandy?

If this issue interests you, and you have some debunking to do, why not dispense with insults and present your case?

As reported sighting of the mythical SLAG FAIRY have begun to increase again, I think it's time to ink to this.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58937

jimtron · 19th September 2006, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking

OK, I won't. Anyone have any opinions on the article cited in the OP?

HeyLeroy · 19th September 2006, 09:58 PM

Here's the original article from '96.

G-K-4 · 20th September 2006, 01:07 PM

And a 1998 article from Mother Jones has a summary of story (and the various stages of its reporting) at http://www.motherjones.com/news/spec...rage/coke.html .

Don't forget that the charges that the contras had drug-smuggling ties got to the level of a Senate committee investigation (Kerry, 1987). Webb took things a bit farther, suggesting that this drug-smuggling was what brought crack to L.A. That may be an overstatement, but I am not familiar enough with the story to say.

But also watch out for some folks on the edge of the contra-cocaine story. In the 1990's, you will get a Michael Ruppert and a Cynthia McKinney interested in this. And Peter Dale Scott has a bit of a conspiracy theory habit, as well.

Pardalis · 20th September 2006, 01:44 PM

This is a thread for Childlike Empress.

G-K-4 · 20th September 2006, 07:07 PM

Who is she?

(And why do I picture that weird girl-queen from Neverending Story???)

Loss Leader · 20th September 2006, 07:31 PM

I don;t think there's any doubt that the CIA associated with some pretty disreputable people in the 1980's in the name of fighting "communism" in Latin America. And when your friends are disreputable, they're bound to do disreputable things. I have no trouble believing that the CIA knew they were in bed with some pretty disgusting people. Beyond that, I'd need to see a little more proof of actual government involvement in the drug trade.

Axiom_Blade · 20th September 2006, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky"

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
What fat beardo at the Free Republic came up with that one?!

CurtC · 21st September 2006, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I don;t think there's any doubt that the CIA associated with some pretty disreputable people in the 1980's in the name of fighting "communism" in Latin America. And when your friends are disreputable, they're bound to do disreputable things. I have no trouble believing that the CIA knew they were in bed with some pretty disgusting people. Beyond that, I'd need to see a little more proof of actual government involvement in the drug trade.

I completely agree with this analysis. To take it the major step further and say that the CIA had an active hand in bringing crack to LA is another matter. Also part of the allegations by the Times was that they specifically targeted black people, which adds another level of conspiracy-ness that would require strong evidence.

Polaris · 21st September 2006, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

I completely agree with this analysis. To take it the major step further and say that the CIA had an active hand in bringing crack to LA is another matter. Also part of the allegations by the Times was that they specifically targeted black people, which adds another level of conspiracy-ness that would require strong evidence.

Not to mention, this one doesn't even have a motive. Even the 9/11 conspiracy garbage claims a motive to why the Evil Government did it. It's the same stretch to say "well they were just a bunch of racists" as it is to say the government blew up the levees in New Orleans "because they hate black people."

That's the only reason I can think of for "the CIA" (to speak of it as if it were the Borg like the CTs do). Getting blacks in Los Angeles hooked on some new cheap drug doesn't seem like it would help defeat Soviet communism, after all.

jimtron · 21st September 2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Getting blacks in Los Angeles hooked on some new cheap drug doesn't seem like it would help defeat Soviet communism, after all.

I don't believe that Webb or anyone made such a claim--if I'm mistaken, please advise.

Polaris · 22nd September 2006, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by jimtron

I don't believe that Webb or anyone made such a claim--if I'm mistaken, please advise.

The conspiracty theory is that the CIA deliberately introduced crack to blacks in South Central Los Angeles in the 1980s, but never gives a reason why. Since the CIA's main goal was operating against the Soviets, I can't think of a motive for them to do this.

dirtywick · 22nd September 2006, 03:47 PM

http://planetquo.com/How-The-CIA-Cre...Crack-Epidemic

Here's a site I found about it.

As I understood it they were using the profits from selling the crack to help finance the Cold War. They'd buy the crack cheap and sell it in ghettos. Why this worked was because it was cheap and powerfully addictive, and nobody of import really cared what went on there anyway.

I've also heard just to hold down the black man, but that's mostly on TV fiction and such.

According to that site, it was to combat Sandista in Nicaragua in order to keep the Soviets from getting a foothold there, and in order to finance that operation the CIA protected the drug dealers and the Contras and supplied them with cheap cocaine for a slice of the profits. Or something along those lines, it's there.

What doesn't make sense is to introduce a highly addictive drug and then start the "War on Drugs" which is expensive to maintain, and the high legal penalties for these drugs cost the government a lot in costs for imprisonment and the like. So the financing wars theory kind of falls apart when the government is spending significantly more on the War on Drugs than it could bring in selling crack.

jimtron · 22nd September 2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

The conspiracty theory is that the CIA deliberately introduced crack to blacks in South Central Los Angeles in the 1980s, but never gives a reason why. Since the CIA's main goal was operating against the Soviets, I can't think of a motive for them to do this.

There may be an urban legend along those lines, but I'm not sure if Webb made quite that claim. As dirtywick pointed out, the motive was financing CIA operations. Not unlike selling arms to Iran to support the Contras.

Polaris · 23rd September 2006, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

http://planetquo.com/How-The-CIA-Cre...Crack-Epidemic

Here's a site I found about it.

As I understood it they were using the profits from selling the crack to help finance the Cold War. They'd buy the crack cheap and sell it in ghettos. Why this worked was because it was cheap and powerfully addictive, and nobody of import really cared what went on there anyway.

I've also heard just to hold down the black man, but that's mostly on TV fiction and such.

According to that site, it was to combat Sandista in Nicaragua in order to keep the Soviets from getting a foothold there, and in order to finance that operation the CIA protected the drug dealers and the Contras and supplied them with cheap cocaine for a slice of the profits. Or something along those lines, it's there.

What doesn't make sense is to introduce a highly addictive drug and then start the "War on Drugs" which is expensive to maintain, and the high legal penalties for these drugs cost the government a lot in costs for imprisonment and the like. So the financing wars theory kind of falls apart when the government is spending significantly more on the War on Drugs than it could bring in selling crack.

I'd love to see how that kickback system would have worked. How would the money get from the dealers to Langley? How would the CIA keep that network from talking?

Robert Morrow · 3rd March 2012, 12:24 PM

Source: http://themoderatevoice.com/16490/cl...ma-drug-issue/

Quote:

There are a bunch of other super books where you can read about the bipartisan Bush/Clinton drug scandals of the 1980's:

1) Powerburns: Cocaine, Contras & the Drug War by former DEA agent Celerino Castillo, III
2) Dark Alliance by Gary Webb
3) Barry and the Boys: the CIA, the Mob and America's Secret History by Daniel Hopsicker

Edited by Locknar:

Edited, breach of rule 4.

13) Called to Serve by James “Bo” Gritz

Also, google the "The Crimes of Mena" by Sally Denton and Roger Morris which they had to publish in Penthouse in July, 1995 because the establishment Washington Post spiked this extremely embarrassing story to folks like Clinton and Bush #41. Another book to get is The Secret Life of Bill Clinton by Ambrose Evans Pritchard. Read that book and you will get a taste on how corrupt the Clintons are. L.D. Brown, Bill's favorite state trooper wrote a book called Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation in 1999. L.D. tells us wild Bill was fully aware of his very good friend Dan Lasater's drug involvement in Mena. In reality, Dan Lasater was in charge of laundering the drug money along with the help of ADFA where Bob Nash worked.

kookbreaker · 3rd March 2012, 12:42 PM

I'd rather read books about zombies.

BStrong · 3rd March 2012, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I'd rather read books about zombies.

Some of those are books written by zombies...

The Politics of Heroin... is the only thing on that list worth reading.

FWIW, whenever you have an empty mode of transhipment, a valuable transportable item and a system of turning blind eyes and not asking questions, monkey business follows.

Coke came back in empty planes. Coke was sold. Who it was sold to and where the money went were the operational decisions of the people bringing in the product, not higher authorities. The whole deal was facilitated by the culture of need-to-know and the institutional culture of not asking anyone questions you didn't know the answer to.

The guys in charge turned blind eyes to what was going on because at their level, the ends justified the means.

Scott Sommers · 4th March 2012, 07:23 AM

Has anybody actually read the OP's link? Or is this another one of those JREF threads where everyone assumes they know what everyone else is saying and just fly off the handle about the evils of conspiracy theory blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

If you actually read the thing, the whole claim is that this no CIA drug link. I shouldn't even waste my time posting the actual text, but if I don't, I know the thread will just continue on as if it did.

Quote:

All three major U.S. dailies, The Times included, debunked a claim that Webb actually never made -- that the CIA deliberately unleashed the crack epidemic on black America. The controversy over this non-assertion obscured Webb's substantive points about the CIA knowingly doing business south of the border with Nicaraguans involved in the drug trade up north...

Quote:

There is no denying that the papers were right on one serious count -- "Dark Alliance" contained major flaws of hyperbole that were both encouraged and ignored by his editors, who saw the story as a chance to win a Pulitzer Prize, according to Mercury News staffers I interviewed...Webb asserted, improbably, that the Blandon-Meneses-Ross drug ring opened "the first pipeline between Colombia's cocaine cartels and the black neighborhoods of Los Angeles," helping to "spark a crack explosion in urban America." The story offered no evidence to support such sweeping conclusions, a fatal error that would ultimately destroy Webb, if not his editors

Quote:

Meanwhile, spurred on by Webb's story, the CIA conducted an internal investigation that acknowledged in March 1998 that the agency had covered up Contra drug trafficking for more than a decade. Although the Washington Post and New York Times covered the report -- which confirmed key chunks of Webb's allegations -- the L.A. Times ignored it for four months, and largely portrayed it as disproving the "Dark Alliance" series. "We dropped the ball on that story," said Doyle McManus, the paper's Washington bureau chief, who helped supervise its response to "Dark Alliance."

This is just pathetic.

Incidentally, 9/11 CTers hate Nick Schou who write the LA Times article.
Nick Schou, OC Weekly reporter, Lies About 9/11 Evidence & Libels
Citizen Investigation Team
I can understand why. He points out that the whole idea that Dark Alliance actually says anything meaningful is crap. But then you'd actually have to read what Nick wrote to know that.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Cl1mh4224rd · 4th March 2012, 09:45 AM

Just because I know how observant some people on forums are, I feel the need to point out that this thread is 5.5 years old.

I'm not sure why Robert Morrow felt the need to resurrect two threads about the CIA and cocaine (the other one being only 3.5 years old), though.

Robert Morrow · 4th March 2012, 10:23 AM

Cl1m, I guess the better question would be why there were TWO threads on CIA drug smuggling. I am just trying to educate where I can.

I guess your real problem is my answer and not the double posting?

Cl1mh4224rd · 4th March 2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

I am just trying to educate where I can.

Resurrecting one long-forgotten thread would have been sufficient.

Quote:

I guess your real problem is my answer and not the double posting?

I honestly didn't even read your post; how could I have a problem with it?

Dcdrac · 5th March 2012, 04:28 AM

The CIa has done many things but I do not buy this it is an ultimtely self defeating and stupid strategy, why undermine your own population it is frankly insane

Robert Morrow · 11th March 2012, 09:54 PM

"Sanity" has not necessarily been a characteristic of all people in the operations of the CIA.

Some people (GHW Bush, Casey, Oliver North for example) think "national security" gives them carte blanche to do literally *anything* whether it is running drugs, committing a whole variety of crimes, murdering people, etc.

jimtron · 12th March 2012, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

"Sanity" has not necessarily been a characteristic of all people in the operations of the CIA.

Some people (GHW Bush, Casey, Oliver North for example) think "national security" gives them carte blanche to do literally *anything* whether it is running drugs, committing a whole variety of crimes, murdering people, etc.

Yes, also see the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" for evidence of very kooky behavior by the CIA and U.S. military agencies.

Robert Morrow · 18th March 2012, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by jimtron

Yes, also see the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" for evidence of very kooky behavior by the CIA and U.S. military agencies.

Not to mention the CIA's mind control programs. There are some people in goverment who put a picture of Joseph Mengele on their bedroom walls like I would Farrah Faucett when I was a kid.

Some people in "intelligence" are either "stupid" or bat **** crazy.

http://www.amazon.com/Terrible-Mista...1&sr=8-1-spell

A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA's Secret Cold War Experiments by H.P. Albarelli

Checkmite · 18th March 2012, 10:26 PM

The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money.

jimtron · 18th March 2012, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money.

I think that was made clear in the book I just mentioned.

Robert Morrow · 18th March 2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money.

And they literally went on for decades and involved tens of thousands of patients, subjects i.e. victims.

Gazpacho · 19th March 2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:

The CIa has done many things but I do not buy this it is an ultimtely self defeating and stupid strategy, why undermine your own population it is frankly insane

Oh I think you misjudge the Reagan administration's sense of "ownership" when it comes to dark people, and urban poors generally.

Gazpacho · 19th March 2012, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money.

Must... resist... Godwin...

Cl1mh4224rd · 19th March 2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

And they literally went on for decades and involved tens of thousands of patients, subjects i.e. victims.

That's not an argument for validity. Christianity, for example, beats those points by orders of magnitude. The 9/11 Truth is also well on its way.

18th August 2006, 08:13 PM	#1
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	CIA, crack, Contras CT? The LA Times has an article about the CT involving the CIA, Contra Rebels, and crack cocaine in the U.S.: Quote: The three-part series by reporter Gary Webb linked the CIA and Nicaragua's Contras to the crack cocaine epidemic that ripped through South Los Angeles in the 1980s. Most of the nation's elite newspapers at first ignored the story. A public uproar, especially among urban African Americans, forced them to respond. What followed was one of the most bizarre, unseemly and ultimately tragic scandals in the annals of American journalism, one in which top news organizations closed ranks to debunk claims Webb never made, ridicule assertions that turned out to be true and ignore corroborating evidence when it came to light. The whole shameful cycle was repeated when Webb committed suicide in December 2004.
	__________________

19th August 2006, 01:39 AM	#2
pipelineaudio Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wickenburg, AZ Posts: 3,670	This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking
	__________________ Can someone give me a better name for SLAG FAIRY?

19th August 2006, 01:54 AM	#3
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by pipelineaudio This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking Why not tell people what "slag fairy" means, instead of making them search for the meaning? Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky" Is that your characterization of everyone here except you and andyandy? If this issue interests you, and you have some debunking to do, why not dispense with insults and present your case?
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

19th August 2006, 05:30 AM	#5
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,080	Originally Posted by Gravy Why not tell people what "slag fairy" means, instead of making them search for the meaning? Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky" Is that your characterization of everyone here except you and andyandy? If this issue interests you, and you have some debunking to do, why not dispense with insults and present your case? As reported sighting of the mythical SLAG FAIRY have begun to increase again, I think it's time to ink to this. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58937
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,080

19th September 2006, 08:35 PM	#6
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by pipelineaudio This one is near and dear to slag fairy hearts...dont expect to see too much debunking OK, I won't. Anyone have any opinions on the article cited in the OP?
	__________________

19th August 2006, 05:22 AM	#4
Stellafane Village Idiot. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Green Mountains Posts: 6,278	Ain't no slag fairy (well, maybe the "L") , and don't know much about the details of Webb's story. But the following quote gives me pause (bolding mine): Quote: ...What followed was one of the most bizarre, unseemly and ultimately tragic scandals in the annals of American journalism, one in which top news organizations closed ranks to debunk claims Webb never made, ridicule assertions that turned out to be true and ignore corroborating evidence when it came to light... From what I've seen, news organizations never close ranks -- they're at each other's throats in fierce competition. If a story has even the whiff of authenticity, and has the potential to draw eyeballs to the news provider, someone will run with it, the sooner the better. As soon as I see a theory that requires mass collusion on the part of the news industry, I immediately become extremely suspicious.

19th September 2006, 09:58 PM	#7
HeyLeroy Vegan Cannibal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Going off the rails on the Crazy Train. Posts: 5,565	Here's the original article from '96.
	__________________ Cows are in large numbers, and do not serve any other purpose, other than to eat grass, and moo -- makaya325 I ♥ my kids. I ♠ my dog. I ♣ my baby Harp Seal.

20th September 2006, 01:07 PM	#8
G-K-4 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 365	And a 1998 article from Mother Jones has a summary of story (and the various stages of its reporting) at http://www.motherjones.com/news/spec...rage/coke.html . Don't forget that the charges that the contras had drug-smuggling ties got to the level of a Senate committee investigation (Kerry, 1987). Webb took things a bit farther, suggesting that this drug-smuggling was what brought crack to L.A. That may be an overstatement, but I am not familiar enough with the story to say. But also watch out for some folks on the edge of the contra-cocaine story. In the 1990's, you will get a Michael Ruppert and a Cynthia McKinney interested in this. And Peter Dale Scott has a bit of a conspiracy theory habit, as well.
G-K-4 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 365

20th September 2006, 01:44 PM	#9
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	This is a thread for Childlike Empress.

20th September 2006, 07:07 PM	#10
G-K-4 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 365	Who is she? (And why do I picture that weird girl-queen from Neverending Story???)
G-K-4 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 365

20th September 2006, 07:31 PM	#11
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	I don;t think there's any doubt that the CIA associated with some pretty disreputable people in the 1980's in the name of fighting "communism" in Latin America. And when your friends are disreputable, they're bound to do disreputable things. I have no trouble believing that the CIA knew they were in bed with some pretty disgusting people. Beyond that, I'd need to see a little more proof of actual government involvement in the drug trade.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

20th September 2006, 11:22 PM	#12
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,748	Originally Posted by Gravy Here's what you and andyandy say it means: "Secular Liberal Anti-American Group Find America and Isreal Really Yucky" BWHAHAHAHAHAHA What fat beardo at the Free Republic came up with that one?!

21st September 2006, 07:01 AM	#13
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I don;t think there's any doubt that the CIA associated with some pretty disreputable people in the 1980's in the name of fighting "communism" in Latin America. And when your friends are disreputable, they're bound to do disreputable things. I have no trouble believing that the CIA knew they were in bed with some pretty disgusting people. Beyond that, I'd need to see a little more proof of actual government involvement in the drug trade. I completely agree with this analysis. To take it the major step further and say that the CIA had an active hand in bringing crack to LA is another matter. Also part of the allegations by the Times was that they specifically targeted black people, which adds another level of conspiracy-ness that would require strong evidence.

21st September 2006, 04:00 PM	#14
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by CurtC I completely agree with this analysis. To take it the major step further and say that the CIA had an active hand in bringing crack to LA is another matter. Also part of the allegations by the Times was that they specifically targeted black people, which adds another level of conspiracy-ness that would require strong evidence. Not to mention, this one doesn't even have a motive. Even the 9/11 conspiracy garbage claims a motive to why the Evil Government did it. It's the same stretch to say "well they were just a bunch of racists" as it is to say the government blew up the levees in New Orleans "because they hate black people." That's the only reason I can think of for "the CIA" (to speak of it as if it were the Borg like the CTs do). Getting blacks in Los Angeles hooked on some new cheap drug doesn't seem like it would help defeat Soviet communism, after all.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

21st September 2006, 04:15 PM	#15
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Quote: Getting blacks in Los Angeles hooked on some new cheap drug doesn't seem like it would help defeat Soviet communism, after all. I don't believe that Webb or anyone made such a claim--if I'm mistaken, please advise.
	__________________

22nd September 2006, 03:19 PM	#16
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by jimtron I don't believe that Webb or anyone made such a claim--if I'm mistaken, please advise. The conspiracty theory is that the CIA deliberately introduced crack to blacks in South Central Los Angeles in the 1980s, but never gives a reason why. Since the CIA's main goal was operating against the Soviets, I can't think of a motive for them to do this.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

22nd September 2006, 03:47 PM	#17
dirtywick Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,719	http://planetquo.com/How-The-CIA-Cre...Crack-Epidemic Here's a site I found about it. As I understood it they were using the profits from selling the crack to help finance the Cold War. They'd buy the crack cheap and sell it in ghettos. Why this worked was because it was cheap and powerfully addictive, and nobody of import really cared what went on there anyway. I've also heard just to hold down the black man, but that's mostly on TV fiction and such. According to that site, it was to combat Sandista in Nicaragua in order to keep the Soviets from getting a foothold there, and in order to finance that operation the CIA protected the drug dealers and the Contras and supplied them with cheap cocaine for a slice of the profits. Or something along those lines, it's there. What doesn't make sense is to introduce a highly addictive drug and then start the "War on Drugs" which is expensive to maintain, and the high legal penalties for these drugs cost the government a lot in costs for imprisonment and the like. So the financing wars theory kind of falls apart when the government is spending significantly more on the War on Drugs than it could bring in selling crack.

22nd September 2006, 04:09 PM	#18
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Quote: The conspiracty theory is that the CIA deliberately introduced crack to blacks in South Central Los Angeles in the 1980s, but never gives a reason why. Since the CIA's main goal was operating against the Soviets, I can't think of a motive for them to do this. There may be an urban legend along those lines, but I'm not sure if Webb made quite that claim. As dirtywick pointed out, the motive was financing CIA operations. Not unlike selling arms to Iran to support the Contras.
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23rd September 2006, 09:28 AM	#19
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by dirtywick http://planetquo.com/How-The-CIA-Cre...Crack-Epidemic Here's a site I found about it. As I understood it they were using the profits from selling the crack to help finance the Cold War. They'd buy the crack cheap and sell it in ghettos. Why this worked was because it was cheap and powerfully addictive, and nobody of import really cared what went on there anyway. I've also heard just to hold down the black man, but that's mostly on TV fiction and such. According to that site, it was to combat Sandista in Nicaragua in order to keep the Soviets from getting a foothold there, and in order to finance that operation the CIA protected the drug dealers and the Contras and supplied them with cheap cocaine for a slice of the profits. Or something along those lines, it's there. What doesn't make sense is to introduce a highly addictive drug and then start the "War on Drugs" which is expensive to maintain, and the high legal penalties for these drugs cost the government a lot in costs for imprisonment and the like. So the financing wars theory kind of falls apart when the government is spending significantly more on the War on Drugs than it could bring in selling crack. I'd love to see how that kickback system would have worked. How would the money get from the dealers to Langley? How would the CIA keep that network from talking?
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

3rd March 2012, 12:42 PM	#21
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	I'd rather read books about zombies.
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3rd March 2012, 01:02 PM	#22
BStrong Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 3,814	Originally Posted by kookbreaker I'd rather read books about zombies. Some of those are books written by zombies... *The Politics of Heroin...* is the only thing on that list worth reading. FWIW, whenever you have an empty mode of transhipment, a valuable transportable item and a system of turning blind eyes and not asking questions, monkey business follows. Coke came back in empty planes. Coke was sold. Who it was sold to and where the money went were the operational decisions of the people bringing in the product, not higher authorities. The whole deal was facilitated by the culture of need-to-know and the institutional culture of not asking anyone questions you didn't know the answer to. The guys in charge turned blind eyes to what was going on because at their level, the ends justified the means.

4th March 2012, 09:45 AM	#24
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Just because I know how observant some people on forums are, I feel the need to point out that this thread is 5.5 years old. I'm not sure why Robert Morrow felt the need to resurrect two threads about the CIA and cocaine (the other one being only 3.5 years old), though.

4th March 2012, 10:23 AM	#25
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157	Cl1m, I guess the better question would be why there were TWO threads on CIA drug smuggling. I am just trying to educate where I can. I guess your real problem is my answer and not the double posting?
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157

4th March 2012, 02:37 PM	#26
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Robert Morrow I am just trying to educate where I can. Resurrecting one long-forgotten thread would have been sufficient. Quote: I guess your real problem is my answer and not the double posting? I honestly didn't even read your post; how could I have a problem with it?

5th March 2012, 04:28 AM	#27
Dcdrac Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,678	The CIa has done many things but I do not buy this it is an ultimtely self defeating and stupid strategy, why undermine your own population it is frankly insane
Dcdrac Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,678

11th March 2012, 09:54 PM	#28
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157	"Sanity" has not necessarily been a characteristic of all people in the operations of the CIA. Some people (GHW Bush, Casey, Oliver North for example) think "national security" gives them carte blanche to do literally anything whether it is running drugs, committing a whole variety of crimes, murdering people, etc.
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157

12th March 2012, 12:14 AM	#29
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by Robert Morrow "Sanity" has not necessarily been a characteristic of all people in the operations of the CIA. Some people (GHW Bush, Casey, Oliver North for example) think "national security" gives them carte blanche to do literally anything whether it is running drugs, committing a whole variety of crimes, murdering people, etc. Yes, also see the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" for evidence of very kooky behavior by the CIA and U.S. military agencies.
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18th March 2012, 10:15 PM	#30
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157	Originally Posted by jimtron Yes, also see the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" for evidence of very kooky behavior by the CIA and U.S. military agencies. Not to mention the CIA's mind control programs. There are some people in goverment who put a picture of Joseph Mengele on their bedroom walls like I would Farrah Faucett when I was a kid. Some people in "intelligence" are either "stupid" or bat **** crazy. http://www.amazon.com/Terrible-Mista...1&sr=8-1-spell A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA's Secret Cold War Experiments by H.P. Albarelli
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157

18th March 2012, 10:26 PM	#31
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,883	The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money.
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18th March 2012, 10:47 PM	#32
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by Checkmite The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money. I think that was made clear in the book I just mentioned.
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18th March 2012, 11:17 PM	#33
Robert Morrow Thinker Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 157	Originally Posted by Checkmite The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money. And they literally went on for decades and involved tens of thousands of patients, subjects i.e. victims.
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19th March 2012, 12:05 AM	#34
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Quote: The CIa has done many things but I do not buy this it is an ultimtely self defeating and stupid strategy, why undermine your own population it is frankly insane Oh I think you misjudge the Reagan administration's sense of "ownership" when it comes to dark people, and urban poors generally.
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19th March 2012, 12:21 AM	#35
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by Checkmite The one fact that never seems to merit mention whenever the military's and government's historical and formerly-secret "psychic" and "mind control" experiment projects are brought up is the fact that all of these experiments failed entirely and were discontinued as wastes of money. Must... resist... Godwin...
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19th March 2012, 10:50 AM	#36
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Robert Morrow And they literally went on for decades and involved tens of thousands of patients, subjects i.e. victims. That's not an argument for validity. Christianity, for example, beats those points by orders of magnitude. The 9/11 Truth is also well on its way.
	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 19th March 2012 at 10:51 AM.