So Long, Kidney Stone!

[Wheezebucket]

Ok so I'm getting this 4 1/2cm stone "blasted" out of my bladder on Monday. It's been stuck in another section of my disqusting innards for the last year, and passed into my bladder last Friday (which sent me into the emergency room). Now I've passed 7-8 stones over the years, but this surgery thing is new to me and I have very little confidence in the hospital where it's being done. I had to see three different doctors, a rotating door of nurses, and several clerks - all of them, every single time, talked about my pain being on the right hand side (fun fact - it's on my left). They accidentally made two seperate files for me and kept seperating my information, and one nurse left me waiting for 55 minutes while she went to check a spelling error on some sheet - then sent a new nurse to take her place (who, what a shocker, misplaced my information).

In the end I guess that stuff doesn't worry me too badly. But I would like to know if anyone else here on the forum has had any kidney stone related surgeries, and if so, care to share the tale? So far they haven't really told me anything about the procedure, but I plan to quiz them all pretty intensely before they put me under on Monday.

(not so) Interesting side note - not a single solitary plant in that friggin' place. Not one! I always thought that was like nation-wide hospital law when I was kid. At least one plant, even a fake one. Ridiculous.

[casebro]

Suggest you Google "Lithotrypsy". Blasting is NOT surgery. More like ultrasonic watch cleaning. They use two 'speakers' in unison, the sound waves meet at the stone and it crumbles. Big amp, Bitchen balance control. All while you sit in a fancy chair. Then, the broken glass shards pass out, scratching the piss out of you all the way. More painful than childbirth and getting a sharp stick in the eye at the same time. I'm kidding about the pain, but what you are going through now will make the rest worth it for the relief.

[BillyJoe]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket

Ok so I'm getting this 4 1/2cm stone "blasted" out of my bladder on Monday. It's been stuck in another section of my disqusting innards for the last year, and passed into my bladder last Friday.

I think you meant 4 1/2 mm
(Unless your ureter is disgustingly large )

[Goshawk]

About lithotripsy.

[Wheezebucket]

Thanks for the info! It seems pretty straight forward and matches what little they did already tell me. Now let's just hope all these galstones they found sit tight and wait their turn.

[fuelair]

Many hospitals have banned plants due to their ability to carry bacteria,etc.
Last ten + years.

[Wheezebucket]

No kidding? Yeah I thought it was so nuts, every waiting room was identical. No plants, no pictures, nothing. Not even a fish tank! They do have copies sitting around of the local Braham newspaper, so I got to check out their sweet "Faith & Families" section, but other than that it's barren.

[BillyJoe]

So how large is that stone?

[Wheezebucket]

4 1/2mm, your correction was spot on. I go in tomorrow morning at 10:45 to get it taken care of.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket

No kidding? Yeah I thought it was so nuts, every waiting room was identical. No plants, no pictures, nothing. Not even a fish tank! They do have copies sitting around of the local Braham newspaper, so I got to check out their sweet "Faith & Families" section, but other than that it's barren.

No pictures, no old magazines - that's another matter!!! My doctor (who unfortunately has some woo tendencies in the area of nutrician (nutrients concentrated in pills and information provided by a continuous dvd in his waiting room) and the power of a blue light laser to reduce pain) had fish, has magazines and wooish or not, saved my life or at least lengthened it when he suggested after a small PSA rise that I should check with a urologist. I did, I had it, he cut it out. It had passed the capsule, but I am fine and, as best the tests show cancer free.

What material, assuming they have said, are your stones made of?

[Wheezebucket]

That's the problem so far, since they haven't been able to get at it, they have no idea. I was told they'd be analyzing it after the procedure to figure all that out, and I'm hoping they find something because as of early this morning I've been having trouble peeing. No blood or pain or anything, but it's like...difficult to coerce it into going (if that makes any sense).

Here's hoping I don't have an infection. But considering I carried this thing around for the past year with no problems I wouldn't be surprised if a new one jumped up now, just to slap me in the face, heh. Stupid body.

I should also mention as a sidenote that the only reason I'm able to afford any of this is because Complexity pointed me in the right direction of the Medicaid stuff a while back, so if you're reading this, thanks!

[Obsequious]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket

That's the problem so far, since they haven't been able to get at it, they have no idea. I was told they'd be analyzing it after the procedure to figure all that out, and I'm hoping they find something because as of early this morning I've been having trouble peeing. No blood or pain or anything, but it's like...difficult to coerce it into going (if that makes any sense).

I Am Not a Doctor, but I am a medical transcriptionist for a urologist's office, so I hear about this a lot. It sounds like you were developing urinary retention. I hope you called your doctor, or at least mentioned it when you went in for lithotripsy this morning.

Speaking of your lithotripsy, I hope they were able to fragment the stone easily and well!

As far as stone analysis is concerned, they won't be able to test the stone composition until he has passed and retrieved some of the fragments for them. Given the number of stones he says he has passed and any information gleaned from the stone analysis, they may do 24-hour urine tests to see if he's secreting too much or too little of certain things in his urine (citrate and calcium oxalate are the two I hear about). If that is the case, they may put him on dietary restrictions or medication in an effort to control the imbalance.

This reminds me to check Bpesta's kidney stone thread over in Forum Community....

Fuelair, it's good to hear that your doctor was so cautious and they caught it.

[BillyJoe]

On average, a 5mm stone will pass naturally. Yours is less than 5mm. Do you have a small urethra?

[Wheezebucket]

Generally they do pass at less than 5, yeah, but 4 1/2 isn't unheard of and my urethra is normal. Doesn't really matter anyways because I just got back from the hospital and - hey guess what - they didn't find anything. They saw it last time, it was the whole reason they set this up, and I damn sure don't remember passing it. Nothing. There was a fair amount of swearing. Good thing that cost me 8 billion dollars.

So now I have to schedule an appointment with some other doctor who will probably tell me just as much as the other ones did (nothing) and jerk me around even more while I sit here trying not to pass out when I pee. At least it'll cost me thousands of dollars a visit, which works out nicely in relation to the 5 minutes on average I spend with each doctor.

I'm about to just give up and live with it and hope for the best.

Oh and thanks for the info Obsequious, I did make sure to mention it to him today when I went in, he didn't seem to care much or touch on it in any way despite my repeated comments, and then when I woke up he was already gone, so I never even got to talk to him afterwards. The nurses just told me that it all looked fine and they had no idea what the pain was from and sent me on my way.

[Iamme]

I had a kidney stone and it brought me to my knees... and I was in the hospital for 6 1/2 hours. I passed it at home into one of those screened cups they give you. It was the size of a grain of pepper.

I have heard that if you drink lots of water, you reduce the risk of kidney stones, as you are more apt to be flush your system out, even if your body DOES retain certain things that would be cause for dietary restrictions.

I never drank a stitch of water, and I was only drinking coffee and beer; both diuretics during this period of my life.

[Verde]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket

So now I have to schedule an appointment with some other doctor who will probably tell me just as much as the other ones did (nothing) and jerk me around even more while I sit here trying not to pass out when I pee. At least it'll cost me thousands of dollars a visit, which works out nicely in relation to the 5 minutes on average I spend with each doctor.

I'm about to just give up and live with it and hope for the best.

Well, there you go. That's one thing you get for listening to the advice from these Western practitioners.

If you had just avoided all forms of municipal water supplies and obtained your liquid intake from real homeopathic sources you would likely never have had this problem.

BTW, the obligatory . I passed a stone a few years ago while on a camping trip a long way from anywhere. A great deal of merriment was had by all but me.
Good luck.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Obsequious

I Am Not a Doctor, but I am a medical transcriptionist for a urologist's office, so I hear about this a lot. It sounds like you were developing urinary retention. I hope you called your doctor, or at least mentioned it when you went in for lithotripsy this morning.

Speaking of your lithotripsy, I hope they were able to fragment the stone easily and well!

As far as stone analysis is concerned, they won't be able to test the stone composition until he has passed and retrieved some of the fragments for them. Given the number of stones he says he has passed and any information gleaned from the stone analysis, they may do 24-hour urine tests to see if he's secreting too much or too little of certain things in his urine (citrate and calcium oxalate are the two I hear about). If that is the case, they may put him on dietary restrictions or medication in an effort to control the imbalance.

This reminds me to check Bpesta's kidney stone thread over in Forum Community....

Fuelair, it's good to hear that your doctor was so cautious and they caught it.

There is also protein (I know because it's the only one of my three that was caught so it could be analysed). All of mine hurt in a crippling way so I sympathathise!!!!

[Iamme]

Originally Posted by fuelair

There is also protein (I know because it's the only one of my three that was caught so it could be analysed). All of mine hurt in a crippling way so I sympathathise!!!!

As in...a protein kidney stone? Really? Sounds like that would be more muscley rather than stone-like.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Iamme

As in...a protein kidney stone? Really? Sounds like that would be more muscley rather than stone-like.

I agree - but I didn't analyse it - the doctors did. I had never heard of one myself - but I guarantee it hurt like a .....

[BillyJoe]

Originally Posted by Iamme

I had a kidney stone and it brought me to my knees... and I was in the hospital for 6 1/2 hours. I passed it at home into one of those screened cups they give you.
It was the size of a grain of pepper.

You little weaky, Iamme

[Wheezebucket]

My water comes from a well. Hemeopathy can stuff it.

I made a new appointment with my doctor today. Here's hoping.

[Obsequious]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket

Generally they do pass at less than 5, yeah, but 4 1/2 isn't unheard of and my urethra is normal. Doesn't really matter anyways because I just got back from the hospital and - hey guess what - they didn't find anything. They saw it last time, it was the whole reason they set this up, and I damn sure don't remember passing it. Nothing. There was a fair amount of swearing. Good thing that cost me 8 billion dollars.

So now I have to schedule an appointment with some other doctor who will probably tell me just as much as the other ones did (nothing) and jerk me around even more while I sit here trying not to pass out when I pee. At least it'll cost me thousands of dollars a visit, which works out nicely in relation to the 5 minutes on average I spend with each doctor.

I'm about to just give up and live with it and hope for the best.

Oh and thanks for the info Obsequious, I did make sure to mention it to him today when I went in, he didn't seem to care much or touch on it in any way despite my repeated comments, and then when I woke up he was already gone, so I never even got to talk to him afterwards. The nurses just told me that it all looked fine and they had no idea what the pain was from and sent me on my way.

It's my pleasure to help in any small way I can! I'm sorry you're having such a rotten time.

I would say, don't give up. If he/they are not even going to explain to you what might cause urinary hesitancy, then you definitely need to find another urologist.

Again, I am not a doctor (so if any of the actual doctors on this board want to weigh in here, please do!), and I don't know your age or how much you might already know about this stuff, but there are several things I know of that might cause hesitancy. The most common, as far as I am aware, is benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). As men get older, their prostates may continue to grow. If the prostate gets too big or grows in certain directions, it can start to put pressure on the urethra where it passes through the prostate, which can cause all kinds of fun symptoms. There are medications and surgeries that may improve or correct this. Another possible cause could be urethral stricture, where the urethra narrows in certain spots for whatever reason (straddle injuries can cause them, but sometimes strictures just develop on their own). This can be surgically corrected if it's a problem, though I believe there is a fair chance of recurrence. Those are just the two most common, the first I'm remembering that can come on abruptly. There are others, but they seem not to be as common, at least where I work.

Are your voiding symptoms actually getting worse? IAmNotADoctor (one more time!), but that would concern me. If you become unable to pee at all, call your doctor, or if it's after hours and it was me, I'd go to the ER. They can catheterize your bladder. Probably not the most fun thing when performed by the ER, but you want to protect your upper tracts (kidneys and ureters) from reflux if the bladder becomes too full for too long.

But this really is stuff your doctors should be telling you. Since they're not, you're right to seek a second opinion. I hope you can find someone to help you, and soon, most especially as it sounds like you are still having pain and other symptoms. Don't give up! Write down your questions before you see the doctor and push until you get get answers, even if it's "I don't know but I'll try to find out/refer you to someone who might." If you're not feeling well enough to be persistent, can you bring along a friend/relative/spouse to advocate for you?

It also isn't unheard-of for stones to disappear between imaging studies without necessarily having passed. It happened to a friend of mine this past year, too, and he was also Not Pleased. His stone was eventually removed ureteroscopically because they couldn't see it well enough for lithotripsy.

And don't give up because they couldn't find anything causing your pain. Keep trying. Good luck!

Fuelair: Our office also tests for proteinuria. The two I mentioned are just the two I hear about the most often.

And drinking lots of water is important! It keeps things moving along so they have less chance to collect and make mischief.

[Wheezebucket]

Thanks again for the info! I'm not sure if things are getting worse in that area at the moment, but that's because when I pee it feels like it's filled with razor blades. I'm told that's normal after the procedure. Regardless, I've been drinking a lot of water and I'll be making a new appointment in a few minutes.

Are there any other painful stones that I can get besides the galstones and kidney stones? If so, please advise so I can *avoid them at all costs*. This sucks, heh.

[Obsequious]

It is possible to have stones in the bladder, although I can't remember if they actually form in the bladder or if they're just passed on from the kidneys. (My brain is totally foggy today, sorry....) It's also possible to develop stones in an Indiana pouch, but I'm pretty sure you don't have one of those since you sound like you're urinating the traditional way and not through a catheterizable stoma.

I'm not aware of any others off the top of my head, but I'm pretty specialized to the GU stuff so I wouldn't necessarily know about them if they did exist.

I do know men can get prostatoliths and calcifications in the epididymis and tunica albuginea, but I don't think those are generally symptomatic and may not be in the same league as kidney or galls stones, but IANAD so I could be wrong. I believe they're usually just bumps encountered on exam. I also don't know of any way to prevent them.

Lots of water = Good! Sorry it's going to make you pee more, what with the razor blades. That totally sucks. I don't know if there's anything to be done about that; probably not, unfortunately. But it might be something to ask about when you make your appointment.

[Obsequious]

This seems like a pretty good informational site for kidney stones.


h t t p ://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/index.htm

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Obsequious

It is possible to have stones in the bladder, although I can't remember if they actually form in the bladder or if they're just passed on from the kidneys. (My brain is totally foggy today, sorry....) It's also possible to develop stones in an Indiana pouch, but I'm pretty sure you don't have one of those since you sound like you're urinating the traditional way and not through a catheterizable stoma.

I'm not aware of any others off the top of my head, but I'm pretty specialized to the GU stuff so I wouldn't necessarily know about them if they did exist.

I do know men can get prostatoliths and calcifications in the epididymis and tunica albuginea, but I don't think those are generally symptomatic and may not be in the same league as kidney or galls stones, but IANAD so I could be wrong. I believe they're usually just bumps encountered on exam. I also don't know of any way to prevent them.

Lots of water = Good! Sorry it's going to make you pee more, what with the razor blades. That totally sucks. I don't know if there's anything to be done about that; probably not, unfortunately. But it might be something to ask about when you make your appointment.

And cranberry juice (reduces infection chances).

[Obsequious]

Originally Posted by fuelair

And cranberry juice (reduces infection chances).

Yes, for some people, cranberry juice can help prevent infections, or so I hear. (No, I have no evidence!)

For some types of kidney stones, lemonade can also be helpful in prevention. (No evidence here, either! Hey, I'm tired.)

I've been drinking a lot of lemonade lately. Just cause. Lemonade is awesome. Awesomely delicious!

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Obsequious

Yes, for some people, cranberry juice can help prevent infections, or so I hear. (No, I have no evidence!)

For some types of kidney stones, lemonade can also be helpful in prevention. (No evidence here, either! Hey, I'm tired.)

I've been drinking a lot of lemonade lately. Just cause. Lemonade is awesome. Awesomely delicious!

At Siggraph several years ago one of the demo digis on their show of really cool computer animation for that year was of the specific action cranberry juice achieves blocking the bad stuff. Wish I remembered the details for you(and hate to say take my word for it). The digi was for medical personnel not advertising - which it was too involved to successfully do.

[Obsequious]

Originally Posted by fuelair

At Siggraph several years ago one of the demo digis on their show of really cool computer animation for that year was of the specific action cranberry juice achieves blocking the bad stuff. Wish I remembered the details for you(and hate to say take my word for it). The digi was for medical personnel not advertising - which it was too involved to successfully do.

That sounds really cool. Siggraph, you say? Maybe I'll google it when I've got some free time.

[fuelair]

www.siggraph.com