First computer invented c.100BC

[andyandy]

Quote:

It looks like a heap of rubbish, feels like flaky pastry and has been linked to aliens. For decades, scientists have puzzled over the complex collection of cogs, wheels and dials seen as the most sophisticated object from antiquity, writes Helena Smith. But 102 years after the discovery of the calcium-encrusted bronze mechanism on the ocean floor, hidden inscriptions show that it is the world's oldest computer, used to map the motions of the sun, moon and planets.
'We're very close to unlocking the secrets,' says Xenophon Moussas,an astrophysicist with a Anglo-Greek team researching the device. 'It's like a puzzle concerning astronomical and mathematical knowledge.'

Known as the Antikythera mechanism and made before the birth of Christ, the instrument was found by sponge divers amid the wreckage of a cargo ship that sunk off the tiny island of Antikythera in 80BC. To date, no other appears to have survived.

snip

But many experts say it could change how the history of science is written. 'In many ways, it was the first analogue computer,' said Professor Theodosios Tassios of the National Technical University of Athens. 'It will change the way we look at the ancients' technological achievements.'

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/new...854509,00.html

more information on the history of the Antikythera mechanism here and here

[Meffy]

One of my favorite technological gizzies, and apparently quite authentic.

The thing is, there's nothing to show it had any effect on scientific history. It's a one-shot deal, brilliant but isolated. :-( If only...

[Starthinker]

As the article said, it was probably a rich man's toy.

[Crossbow]

Actually, the abacus significantly pre-dates this device and the abacus is much more of a calculator than this Greek item.

[Meffy]

The abacus doesn't actually calculate, though, it's more like pencil and paper -- an aid to calculation.

[Bronze Dog]

Did it have kick[hiney] fighting games with action missiles?

[Meffy]

Pfft. Gears are hardware. You're talking software. For that you want Greek fire.

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

It does not seem to be a computer in the sense that we use the word, but rather a clockwork device for "computing" the position of the planets in the sky. It is a complicated and involved relative of the sextant. Its modern counterpart/descendant would be a clockwork model of the solar system or a planetarium's projector.

That's not to disparage its construction or the ingenuity of its designer and builder. It is a marvelous piece of equipment.

[Meffy]

I think it qualifies as a mechanical analog computer, like the Norden bombsight of WWII but nowhere near as complicated. Whatever we call it, it's a nice piece of work.

[hopfen]

Now that the Antikythera Mechanism has been (more or less) deciphered, I'm even more impressed with the genius who created it. But there is still that small, nagging doubt at the back of my mind that wonders whether this is actually a century-old hoax.

I would be extremely interested in any thoughts the membership might have on this remarkable object.

[Jim_MDP]

My first two thought were...

This sounds like a very early flatish astrolabe (I always envision the beautiful 3D types). Wiki seems to agree. Need to read more about it.

Second... the term "analog computer" made me think of MY Norden.
I'd post a pic but you can see one on Wiki.

[MRC_Hans]

Mmmm, I guess it could be a hoax or real, or a misinterpretation (how was it dated, really?).

I don't think such things are that sensational, however. While requireing an extraordinary gifted and visionary creator, it's not outside the capabilities of its era. If anything, it goes to show that an invention doesn't just need someone to think of it, it also needs the time to be ripe for it. This one was ahead of its time, and remained a curiosity.

Like da Vinci's flying machines, it was not made when the time was ready for it.

Hans

[andyandy]

do you have any links to the new data?

[sphenisc]

[derail]
I was surprised that heliocentrism was around this early, so I had a look at round and saw this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_a...#Heliocentrism

I'd no idea it dated back to the 8th century BC. And the estimate of the speed of light is quite astounding.

[/derail]

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

I don't think such things are that sensational, however. While requireing an extraordinary gifted and visionary creator, it's not outside the capabilities of its era.

Actually, Hans, it supposedly is - machines with gears weren't thought to have appeared until centuries after the Antikythera machine. To use a buzz-phrase, it is a paradigm-changing discovery.

However, I agree about the one-off aspect. Charles Babbage's calculating machines, for example, were way ahead of their time, but had little if any influence on the rest of the world.

The Colossus code-breaking machines were essentially electronic program-controlled calculators, as was ENIAC, regarded widely as the first electronic computer. However, although they beat ENIAC to the punch by some margin, their top secret status ensured thay would have no influence on the future of computing. ENIAC probably didn't either - at least, not directly - but it stirred the popular imagination and prompted arguably the most important computer paper since Turing's "On Computable Numbers": Von Neumann's "First Draft Of A Report on the EDVAC".

[andyandy]

here's the new report....

Quote:

. Detailed imaging of the mechanism suggests it dates back to 150-100 BC and had 37 gear wheels enabling it to follow the movements of the moon and the sun through the zodiac, predict eclipses and even recreate the irregular orbit of the moon.

snip

Remarkably, scans showed the device uses a differential gear, which was previously believed to have been invented in the 16th century. The level of miniaturisation and complexity of its parts is comparable to that of 18th century clocks.

Some researchers believe the machine, known as the Antikythera Mechanism, may have been among other treasure looted from Rhodes that was en route to Rome for a celebration staged by Julius Caesar.

One of the remaining mysteries is why the Greek technology invented for the machine seemed to disappear. No other civilisation is believed to have created anything as complex for another 1,000 years. One explanation could be that bronze was often recycled in the period the device was made, so many artefacts from that time have long ago been melted down and erased from the archaelogical record. The fateful sinking of the ship carrying the Antikythera Mechanism may have inadvertently preserved it. "This device is extraordinary, the only thing of its kind," said Professor Edmunds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/st...960316,00.html

[epepke]

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nudd

It does not seem to be a computer in the sense that we use the word, but rather a clockwork device for "computing" the position of the planets in the sky. It is a complicated and involved relative of the sextant. Its modern counterpart/descendant would be a clockwork model of the solar system or a planetarium's projector.

The secret word for today is "orrery."

[Jim_MDP]

Originally Posted by epepke

The secret word for today is "orrery."

Thank you. That is what I was envisioning when my mind said "astrolabe". But seeing the reconstruction... I think it's closer to the latter.

[Soapy Sam]

An orrery is a heliocentric model.
The Antikythera device apparently is terracentric.

I confess , I have long shared Hopfen's "nagging doubts" about this object.

[switchtech]

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nudd

It does not seem to be a computer in the sense that we use the word, but rather a clockwork device for "computing" the position of the planets in the sky. It is a complicated and involved relative of the sextant. Its modern counterpart/descendant would be a clockwork model of the solar system or a planetarium's projector.

That's not to disparage its construction or the ingenuity of its designer and builder. It is a marvelous piece of equipment.

Computers in the sense we use the term now of course only date from the first electronic computers. Mechanical computers, and of course human computers, were the norm before. Once such device that represents this order is the E-6B Flight Computer invented in the 1930's. Here's the wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6B

The ancient Greeks were certainly an ingenious bunch. Archimedes made bunches of clockwork like devices, Hipparchus had the astronomical knowledge needed to design such things, and Posidonius may have actually built them.

Of course that doesn't answer who built the Antikythera mechanism. We'll probably never know.

jbs

[sphenisc]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

An orrery is a heliocentric model.
The Antikythera device apparently is terracentric.

I confess , I have long shared Hopfen's "nagging doubts" about this object.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism


This wikipedia article suggests it's possible it is based on heliocentric principles (but doesn't have a reference). Do you have something indicating otherwise?

Thanks

[Soapy Sam]

Originally Posted by sphenisc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism


This wikipedia article suggests it's possible it is based on heliocentric principles (but doesn't have a reference). Do you have something indicating otherwise?

Thanks

A description in a newspaper, I'm afraid. (Which I should have made clear and I apologise for not doing so). Almost certainly the Scotsman.

It's not the sort of comment I'd expect a journalist to make unless he got it from a prepared briefing. (That said, it also said it might be used to calculate orbits of all the planets- now does that mean ALL the planets, or those known to the Greeks?)

I had not seen this stated anywhere else, but I had wondered whether the device was or was not heliocentric, as I felt if it was, it would prove it to be either a hoax or wrongly dated. Alternatively it might suggest the Greeks were more knowledgable than we had supposed.

But- do we know if the structure of the object is such that we can tell whether or not it requires a heliocentric solar system to work? Marine navigation until the 20th century worked on the model of fixed stars on a transparent sphere- and did so with consistently good results, even if everyone knew the model to be incorrect.

[kleinjahr]

Actually the Greeks had a pretty good handle on things. Knew the Earth was a sphere and came pretty close to the actual circumference etc. Unfortunately, much was lost over the millenia, Library of Alexandria being a case in point. Much of what we do have comes through the Arabs, back when they were more progressive than the Christians.
Another problem was the Greeks,and others, attitude toward anything that involved manual labour. Philosophers don't do that, slaves do.

[Jim_MDP]

I saw a single photo of the reproduction, complete with wood knobbed crank.

Terra/Geocentric.

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Big Al

However, I agree about the one-off aspect. Charles Babbage's calculating machines, for example, were way ahead of their time, but had little if any influence on the rest of the world.

The fact that the machining technology of his time was not precise enough to allow Babbage to actually build his analytical engine might've had something to do with that.

[advancedatheist]

The inventor should have built a bigger version on a mountain with instructions on how it works and how to repair it, like the current Clock of the Long Now project.