President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 03:46 PM

Radical leftists in the United States with their Stalinist allies in Europe for the past week have been attacking the Bush Administration for not providing evidence of Iraqi WMD.

President Bush said he is going to provide the proof.

I think the left is going to have a huge cream-pie in its face again. Or maybe a lard-pie lol.

Whatever the pie, the US has Iraqi WMD evidence and the left will cower when the evidence is revealed.

JK

no one in particular · 5th June 2003, 04:01 PM

Odd, Jedi. I found the word “proof” no where in the document. I certainly do hope that the final justification for the war is found. And the “mobile biological weapons facilities” are actually somewhat encouraging. Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue.

You should view your ability to find what you want out of this story as an example of your inability to look at a given situation with impartiality. The closest President Bush comes to meeting your claim is that he says:

Quote:

We're on the look. We'll reveal the truth.

I find this actually to be a step back from President Bush’s previous claims.

Nasarius · 5th June 2003, 04:02 PM

That's what I thought too when I saw the headline, JK. But then you actually read what he said and it's just another empty promise of "yeah, we'll find something...some day".

Segnosaur · 5th June 2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by no one in particular
Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue.

I have to agree here.... I too supported the war, partly for WMD (not because of Bush's claims, but because of Iraqi actions), and partly for other reasons (humanitarian, terrorism, and others.)

However, I feel the administraton went too far in their claims prior to the war, and continued insistance that 'proof is coming' damages credibility, especially if the 'proof' is not substantial. (I do consider the mobile labs important, but they've already been presented in the past.)

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by no one in particular
Odd, Jedi. I found the word “proof” no where in the document. I certainly do hope that the final justification for the war is found. And the “mobile biological weapons facilities” are actually somewhat encouraging. Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue.

You should view your ability to find what you want out of this story as an example of your inability to look at a given situation with impartiality. The closest President Bush comes to meeting your claim is that he says: I find this actually to be a step back from President Bush’s previous claims.

Well, the problem with dealing with socialist-terrorists like Saddam is that they have many allies in Europe (France and Germany are two).

You see, to France and Germany, 300,000 men, women and children tortured, gassed with sarin/VX and killed overall and buried in mass graves was not enough of a reason to invade. Plus the fact that the UN collectively weighed 56 UN resolutions against Iraq which Iraq disobeyed in their entirety also wasn't a reason to invade.

So between the 56 UN resolutions he ignored and the 300,000 people he killed, I can see why no excuse to go in and get him is really good enough for the radical left.

In fact, I am glad we invaded and took Saddam out. I didn't even need a reason to feel that we shouldn't.

JK

Malachi151 · 5th June 2003, 04:36 PM

To quote myself:

Quote:

Whether this war be right or wrong, and whether its immediate consequences be good or bad, there can be no denial that the nation was moved to war with lies.

The Fool · 5th June 2003, 04:40 PM

Hey JK.

WMD nave already been found remember? You said Blair had announced it remember? ooops..... I'm quite surprised that you have not got GWB announcing they have been found, after all, Blair saying he thinks they will be found was enough for you to fabricate a blair statement that they have actually been found....whats the difference here? Why are you comfortable with Fabricating statements from Blair but not Bush?

Tricky · 5th June 2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Well, the problem with dealing with socialist-terrorists like Saddam is that they have many allies in Europe (France and Germany are two).

This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth?

Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus?

Ion · 5th June 2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

...
...the US has Iraqi WMD evidence and the left will cower when the evidence is revealed.

JK

So:

there is no evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) in Iraq.

After Bush:

.) yelled "Iraq must disarm." 48 hours before attacking Iraq,

.) cut the U.N. inspections searching for WMD in Iraq,

.) bypassed the U.N. Security Council,

.) lied in Congress with a forged document that there were ties between Nigeria and Iraq in an Iraqi nuclear program, so based on this forged document the Congress declared war on Iraq,

.) attacked Iraq and killed Iraqis with $78 billion so far;

.) neglected the U.S. economy by not stimulating it with this $78 billion;

.) 'liberated' Iraq, U.S.S.R. style (i.e.: the invasion of Afghanistan in 1980);

.) gets the Iraqi oil to be traded in U.S. dollars and not Euros anymore.

Nice:

'Ace Ventura, Pet Detective' and his supporters in these facts, are not comic anymore.

They are tragic, as in lives that are lost and maimed, because of 'Ace Ventura' Bush's lies, faith and incompetence.

corplinx · 5th June 2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth?

Most employed Iraqis worked for the state. Currently its a source of tension since now the majority of employed Iraqis were layed off as a result of their employer filing chapter 86.

What do you call a country like Iraq? Communist? Socialist? I call it a cluster-f*ck.

a_unique_person · 5th June 2003, 05:29 PM

First of all it took ages to present the evidence to the UN, now it is taking ages to present the evidence again.

I think the truth is easy to say, it is the lies that take a while to work out.

Gem · 5th June 2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

.) 'liberated' Iraq, U.S.S.R. style (i.e.: the invasion of Afghanistan in 1980);

I would have to disagree on this point. the USSR Afgan invasion is a lot different fromt he Iraq war, in terms of military strategy, time and humanitarian treatment of civilians. If you want to compare Soviet invasion of Afganistan to a US war, compare it to Viet-Nam.

Gem

Ion · 5th June 2003, 05:46 PM

My point there, is that according to the news of the fights and protests in Iraq, the Iraqis feel as much 'liberated' by Bush in this war, as they would have been by the former U.S.S.R., or by Japan, China or any other culture that has nothing in common with them.

The Iraqis say to this kind of 'liberation':

no, thanks.

And by the way:

there are no WMD, imminent threat WMD -mind you-, either.

But gee:

there is oil in Iraq, and there is Halliburton in U.S. where the U.S. Vice-President Cheney was C.E.O. in 2000.

The Fool · 5th June 2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus?

Tricky..... When all the worlds problems are caused by an evil conspiracy of socialists then anyone who causes a problem must be a socialist. Thats how JK can comfortably label totalitarian dictators as socialists....

Anyway, why not join me in a song?

Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay
Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay
Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious!
Even though the sound of it
Is something quite atrocious
If you say it loud enough
You'll always sound precocious
Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious!

no one in particular · 5th June 2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion

there is oil in Iraq, and there is Halliburton in the U.S. where the U.S. Vice-President Cheney used to be C.E.O. in 2000.

My, my Ion . You certainly are pessimistic. I would think you would be more positive .

I herby declare that this joke should never be used again!

edited to bold/size4/underline/color the main premises of the joke.

Ion · 5th June 2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by no one in particular

...
I herby declare that this joke should never be used again!

OK.

Tell this "...this joke should never be used again!" to Bush:

this joke of a war went way too far.

no one in particular · 5th June 2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion

OK.

Tell this "...this joke should never be used again!" to Bush:

this joke of a war went way too far.

Chuckle, I assumed you would get the joke, sorry. Would someone else like to explain to “Ion” what he/she missed?

Ion · 5th June 2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by no one in particular

...
Would someone else like to explain to “Ion” what he/she missed?

Start with what you missed.

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth?

Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus?

Gosh, you mean to say Iraq was a democracy before we invaded?

JK

Bjorn · 5th June 2003, 06:35 PM

I don't believe what I'm reading.

Are there only two alternatives - democracy or socialist?

What about all the americans here claiming that the US is not a democracy? It must be socialist then ...

Ion · 5th June 2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

...you mean to say Iraq was a democracy before we invaded?

JK

You mean to say that Iraq is a democracy after U.S. invaded it?

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bjorn
I don't believe what I'm reading.

Are there only two alternatives - democracy or socialist?

What about all the americans here claiming that the US is not a democracy? It must be socialist then ...

America isn't a socialist country yet, but it is well on its way to turning into one.

Iraq was a socialist Satrap nation-state.

If you guys want lessons about all these countries and their political systems, I tutor for $45.00 an hour.

JK

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion

You mean to say that Iraq is a democracy after U.S. invaded it?

Right now it is even freer. That will change once the angry feminist matriarchal totalitarians begin to influence policy remotely over there and really do a job on the Iraqis.

JK

Ed · 5th June 2003, 06:42 PM

And if GWB produces nothing in some reasonable time (say a month), JK, will you agree with me that he is a lieing coward?

Again, I am not saying that the war was not for the good, just that GWB is an LC.

Ion · 5th June 2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Right now it is even freer.
...
JK

It is as free as China invading Iraq with Chinese style of freedom values.

By the same token of 'freer', how would you like the Iraqis taking over U.S. with their 'freeing' values?

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed
And if GWB produces nothing in some reasonable time (say a month), JK, will you agree with me that he is a lieing coward?

Again, I am not saying that the war was not for the good, just that GWB is an LC.

Bush never lied. You guys are perpetuating a European socialist pro-Saddam cover. France and Germany provided cover for Saddam to shift his WMD assets. The weeks the UN was indecisive before the invasion combined with the majorly wasted time Hans Blix used bringing a handful of inspectors back to Iraq was used by the Baath Party to mask its WMD.

I have no doubts whatsoever that more Iraqi WMD will turn up because it already is.

JK

Ion · 5th June 2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Bush never lied.
...
JK

Under Bush's watch:

.) it was a U.S. report lying in the U.N. Security Council,

.) it was a forged document about an Iraqi nuclear program aided by Nigeria, that convinced the U.S. Congress to war against Iraq.

These lies killed Iraqis in a war costing U.S. $78 billion.

The $78 billion were not invested instead in the U.S. economy.

The newspaper The San Diego Union Tribune from Thursday May 22, 2003, reports under 'CIA conducting review of prewar reports on Iraq':

"The failure of U.S. forces to find either conclusive evidence of Iraq's ties to Al-Qaeda or unconventional weapons has added urgency to the study's outcome.
The review, which has the support of many analysts and officials who have said the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,..."

Read carefully:

"...the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,...".

Like U.S.S.R. used to be, U.S. is now:

.) military,

and

.) not much of a strong economy -2.8 million jobs lost since 2000, that could have been better supported with $78 billion-.

Bush spells disaster.

Crossbow · 5th June 2003, 07:06 PM

These boobs said they had the proof that would show just what a danger Iraq actually is long before the shooting even started. But of course, they never showed it.

Now that the shooting is over, they still do not have this proof.

Guess what? We have been lied to again in order to justify a war that was not necessary.

Bjorn · 5th June 2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
If you guys want lessons about all these countries and their political systems, I tutor for $45.00 an hour.
JK

Hehe.

I'll think about listening for that kind of money .... please send a recorded lecture and the money order?

Ladewig · 5th June 2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

The Fool-
Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious!

Bravo! Bravo!

Ion · 5th June 2003, 07:39 PM

Okey dokey, then.

Quote:

Originally posted by Crossbow
These boobs said they had the proof that would show just what a danger Iraq actually is long before the shooting even started. But of course, they never showed it.

Now that the shooting is over, they still do not have this proof.

Guess what? We have been lied to again in order to justify a war that was not necessary.

Yes:

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

Donald Rumsfeld
ABC Interview
March 30, 2003

"I don't know the answer."

Donald Rumsfeld
Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations
May 27, 2003

and from:

Wolfowitz admits war about oil.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asked why a nuclear power such as North Korea was being treated differently from Iraq, where hardly any weapons of mass destruction had been found, the deputy defence minister said: "Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, how much of this U.S. religious and neo-conservative goofing is affecting life on earth?

Hundreds of dead and mutilated, $78 billion wasted, 2.8 million jobs in U.S. that are lost and not fought for, U.S. international relations severed from Europe to Africa.

Ed · 5th June 2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Bush never lied. You guys are perpetuating a European socialist pro-Saddam cover.
JK

Horseshet, JK. I said precisely this (about how he damn well better deliver WMD's) before the stupid war even started since GWD was hanging the whole thing on that assertion. Tell me. Is demanding honesty particularly European or socialist? Are you suggesting that the outrage that some felt over Clinton's unfamiliarity with the concept of truth was socialist? This is not a reaction on the part of commies to a sucessful war, rather it is a question that was held in abeyance during hostilities that now is appropriately surfacing.

Frankly, JK, the more you spin this thing, the less your credibility.

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed

Horseshet, JK. I said precisely this (about how he damn well better deliver WMD's) before the stupid war even started since GWD was hanging the whole thing on that assertion. Tell me. Is demanding honesty particularly European or socialist? Are you suggesting that the outrage that some felt over Clinton's unfamiliarity with the concept of truth was socialist? This is not a reaction on the part of commies to a sucessful war, rather it is a question that was held in abeyance during hostilities that now is appropriately surfacing.

Frankly, JK, the more you spin this thing, the less your credibility.

My credibility sparkles like the sun with brilliance and warmth and unwavering power.

You said Bush lied. He didn't lie. The only thing Bush has done is quote accurate intel reports of Saddam's WMD capabilities. If Saddam came clean he would not have been invaded and destroyed. Saddam wanted the fight and he got it.

Also, my pointing out of the leftist attacks on Bush regardless of the circumstances regarding the war is right on target too. European leaders knew of the genocide there. Saddam has killed more Muslims than any other man in written history--yet Europe was silent about it.

The US has found WMD in Iraq. Case closed. Iraq was taken out and is now being rebuilt--game over.

Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president, and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal.

I think guys like you in denial are the ones with credibility issues.

JK

Ion · 5th June 2003, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

...
Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president, and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal.
...
JK

Sure, Bush deserves a medal:

from you.

Me, I stick with this:

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion

...
The newspaper The San Diego Union Tribune from Thursday May 22, 2003, reports under 'CIA conducting review of prewar reports on Iraq':

"The failure of U.S. forces to find either conclusive evidence of Iraq's ties to Al-Qaeda or unconventional weapons has added urgency to the study's outcome.
The review, which has the support of many analysts and officials who have said the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,..."
...

To each, its own, you know?

Ion · 5th June 2003, 08:33 PM

Below is as 'good' as the mobile biological weapons facility get, according to a report by the Pentagon.

The report notes that the trailers contain a fermenter, water-supply tanks, an air compressor, a water-chiller, a device for collecting exhaust gases—just the right components for an "ingeniously simple, self-contained bioprocessing system." The trailers are also "strikingly similar" to descriptions of mobile-bioweapons plants provided by Iraqi exiles who claim to have worked in them or witnessed others who did. Secretary of State Colin Powell displayed drawings, based on these descriptions, during his Feb. 5 "smoking-gun" briefing to the U.N. Security Council.

Together with this Pentagon report, a CIA report reveals considerable ambiguity about the nature of these vehicles. For example, it notes that Iraqi officials—presumably those currently being interrogated—say the trailers were used to produce hydrogen for artillery weather-balloons.

(Note: many army units float balloons to monitor the accuracy of artillery fire.)

In response to this claim, the report states:

"Some of the features of the trailer—a gas-collection system and the presence of caustic—are consistent with both bioproduction and hydrogen production. The plant's design possibly could be used to produce hydrogen using a chemical reaction, but it would be inefficient. The capacity of this trailer is larger than the typical units for hydrogen production for weather balloons."

(One could ask: since when was Saddam's Iraq considered a model of efficiency?)

The report concedes that U.S. officials found no traces of any bioweapons agent inside the trailers. "We suspect," it states, "that the Iraqis thoroughly decontaminated the vehicle to remove evidence."

(Comment: that's possible.)

The report also notes that, in order to produce biological weapons, each trailer would have to be accompanied by a second and possibly a third trailer, specially designed to grow, process, sterilize, and dry the bacteria. Such trailers would "have equipment such as mixing tanks, centrifuges, and spray dryers"—none of which were spotted in the trailers that were found.
The problem, the CIA acknowledges, is that "we have not yet found" these post-production trailers.

(Question: is it that they haven't been found—or that they don't exist?)

Ed · 5th June 2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

My credibility sparkles like the sun with brilliance and warmth and unwavering power.

You sound like a laundry detergent. If you would have said "unwashed" rather than "unwavering" it would have been more manly. As it is it sounds rather pretty boy

You said Bush lied. He didn't lie.

So far the only interpretation is that he did. I really do hope that that changes

The only thing Bush has done is quote accurate intel reports of Saddam's WMD capabilities.

You have no idea what he quoted, where it came from, how it was reworked. Neither do I. We only know what he said

If Saddam came clean he would not have been invaded and destroyed. Saddam wanted the fight and he got it.

Saddam was an idiot and got what he deserved. Whether he could have avoided it or not is another issue. You will recall GWB raising the stakes at the last minute, not unlike adding to an already winning bid on ebay. S was doomed from the start of this charade, IMO

Also, my pointing out of the leftist attacks on Bush regardless of the circumstances regarding the war is right on target too.

I have no doubt that leftists attack Bush. Frankly the syncopated whining about Nixon, Regan, GWB1 and GWB2 is so pro forma and predictable that it has as much impact as Jesse Jackson yelling "racism". Your pointing this out is superfluous

European leaders knew of the genocide there. Saddam has killed more Muslims than any other man in written history--yet Europe was silent about it.

Many if not most governments in Europe strike me as craven and perfidious. JK, this is not a news flash.

The US has found WMD in Iraq. Case closed. Iraq was taken out and is now being rebuilt--game over.

WHOA THERE SPARKEY. If what they found requires technical interpritation that resulkts in debate it is not the discovery of anything.

Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president,

I agree with the "man" and "myth" part. Legends can be good or bad, we'll see. For the moment he is untouchable and that implies teflon more than kevlar. Had he told the truth at the outset I might have voted for kevlar

and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal.

Oh please. Were you chuckling when you typed this? Tell me you were.

I think guys like you in denial are the ones with credibility issues.

I ask for proof, you believe anything. Let me ask you the critical question that one would ask any woo-woo believer (like in crystals and that crap) "what would it take for you to change your opinion?" If the answer is "nothing would" or silence, you have abandoned rational, critical thought.

JK
ED

Ed · 5th June 2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion
Below is as 'good' as the mobile biological weapons facility get, according to a report by the Pentagon.

Vanishing Agents

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The report notes that the trailers contain a fermenter, water-supply tanks, an air compressor, a water-chiller, a device for collecting exhaust gases—just the right components for an "ingeniously simple, self-contained bioprocessing system." .

Criminey. It sounds like a still

AND in a Moslem country. I am shocked, shocked.

Khalid01 · 5th June 2003, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president, and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal.

JK never ceases to amaze me... in a disheartening and nauseating manner. I just can't comprihend the above statement. Having recently finished 1984 recently, I can't help thinking that JK is participating in some sort of "doublethink". This is statement is just buried in falsehood. I think I need to lie down...

Jedi Knight · 5th June 2003, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Khalid01

JK never ceases to amaze me... in a disheartening and nauseating manner. I just can't comprihend the above statement. Having recently finished 1984 recently, I can't help thinking that JK is participating in some sort of "doublethink". This is statement is just buried in falsehood. I think I need to lie down...

Go ahead and lie down. What I am talking about can't be learned inside a leftist university.

How can the leftist talking heads really understand the real world? Do you honestly believe that guys like Saddam can be bargained with--negotiated with? You can't negotiate with those people. You have to set the rules and when the rules get broken by men like Saddam you have to go in there and kill them. In my life I have been a pretty good judge of men. Men can be judged by how they value life.

The left attacks the very attempt to defend from men like Saddam. The debate to go to war with Iraq started with 300,000 dead Muslims at the hands of Saddam, the most killed in history by any man on Earth. The left ignored it, went to McDonald's, bought a cheeseburger, watched a movie, then went home to figure out ways to subvert US national security.

No amount of apologist rhetoric stopped Iraq from going down. The left can whine about the WMD, and the remarkable thing about that is that I think the WMD delay is to shield allies who helped Saddam with his WMD, especially France. Imagine that--we are shielding France from international embarrassment, while at the same time we are getting blamed for shielding them.

I guess the Bush Administration chose France and NATO over US international prestige with the WMD issue. That is what I think is happening but I could be wrong.

Either way, if you really need to lie down, go take a nap and ponder how the left can be apologists for a man like Saddam who killed more Muslims than anyone ever in the entire history of man.

JK

Ion · 5th June 2003, 09:58 PM

Jedi Knight,

read this, to help you growing up:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

It's about considering Bush to be impeachable from the U.S. Presidency due to his lying on whether WMD exist in Iraq, then attacking Iraq in an almost solo U.S. war.

Good luck to you.

5th June 2003, 03:46 PM	#1
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Radical leftists in the United States with their Stalinist allies in Europe for the past week have been attacking the Bush Administration for not providing evidence of Iraqi WMD. President Bush said he is going to provide the proof. I think the left is going to have a huge cream-pie in its face again. Or maybe a lard-pie lol. Whatever the pie, the US has Iraqi WMD evidence and the left will cower when the evidence is revealed. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 04:01 PM	#2
no one in particular muse Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,004	Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Odd, Jedi. I found the word “proof” no where in the document. I certainly do hope that the final justification for the war is found. And the “mobile biological weapons facilities” are actually somewhat encouraging. Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue. You should view your ability to find what you want out of this story as an example of your inability to look at a given situation with impartiality. The closest President Bush comes to meeting your claim is that he says: Quote: We're on the look. We'll reveal the truth. I find this actually to be a step back from President Bush’s previous claims.
	__________________ We need more xoup.

5th June 2003, 04:02 PM	#3
Nasarius Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 672	That's what I thought too when I saw the headline, JK. But then you actually read what he said and it's just another empty promise of "yeah, we'll find something...some day".
Nasarius Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 672	__________________ "Did you understand the music...or was it all in vain?" ~ Roger Waters

5th June 2003, 04:23 PM	#4
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by no one in particular Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue. I have to agree here.... I too supported the war, partly for WMD (not because of Bush's claims, but because of Iraqi actions), and partly for other reasons (humanitarian, terrorism, and others.) However, I feel the administraton went too far in their claims prior to the war, and continued insistance that 'proof is coming' damages credibility, especially if the 'proof' is not substantial. (I do consider the mobile labs important, but they've already been presented in the past.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

5th June 2003, 04:25 PM	#5
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by no one in particular Odd, Jedi. I found the word “proof” no where in the document. I certainly do hope that the final justification for the war is found. And the “mobile biological weapons facilities” are actually somewhat encouraging. Not that I care so much; I would have supported the action without the wmd charade. However, the credibility of the administration is stressed by the issue. You should view your ability to find what you want out of this story as an example of your inability to look at a given situation with impartiality. The closest President Bush comes to meeting your claim is that he says: I find this actually to be a step back from President Bush’s previous claims. Well, the problem with dealing with socialist-terrorists like Saddam is that they have many allies in Europe (France and Germany are two). You see, to France and Germany, 300,000 men, women and children tortured, gassed with sarin/VX and killed overall and buried in mass graves was not enough of a reason to invade. Plus the fact that the UN collectively weighed 56 UN resolutions against Iraq which Iraq disobeyed in their entirety also wasn't a reason to invade. So between the 56 UN resolutions he ignored and the 300,000 people he killed, I can see why no excuse to go in and get him is really good enough for the radical left. In fact, I am glad we invaded and took Saddam out. I didn't even need a reason to feel that we shouldn't. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 04:36 PM	#6
Malachi151 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,405	To quote myself: Quote: Whether this war be right or wrong, and whether its immediate consequences be good or bad, there can be no denial that the nation was moved to war with lies.
	__________________ www.rationalrevolution.net "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Teddy Roosevelt

5th June 2003, 04:40 PM	#7
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Hey JK. WMD nave already been found remember? You said Blair had announced it remember? ooops..... I'm quite surprised that you have not got GWB announcing they have been found, after all, Blair saying he thinks they will be found was enough for you to fabricate a blair statement that they have actually been found....whats the difference here? Why are you comfortable with Fabricating statements from Blair but not Bush?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

5th June 2003, 05:25 PM	#8
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,367	Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Well, the problem with dealing with socialist-terrorists like Saddam is that they have many allies in Europe (France and Germany are two). This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth? Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus?

5th June 2003, 05:26 PM	#9
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight ... ...the US has Iraqi WMD evidence and the left will cower when the evidence is revealed. JK So: there is no evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) in Iraq. After Bush: .) yelled "Iraq must disarm." 48 hours before attacking Iraq, .) cut the U.N. inspections searching for WMD in Iraq, .) bypassed the U.N. Security Council, .) lied in Congress with a forged document that there were ties between Nigeria and Iraq in an Iraqi nuclear program, so based on this forged document the Congress declared war on Iraq, .) attacked Iraq and killed Iraqis with $78 billion so far; .) neglected the U.S. economy by not stimulating it with this $78 billion; .) 'liberated' Iraq, U.S.S.R. style (i.e.: the invasion of Afghanistan in 1980); .) gets the Iraqi oil to be traded in U.S. dollars and not Euros anymore. Nice: 'Ace Ventura, Pet Detective' and his supporters in these facts, are not comic anymore. They are tragic, as in lives that are lost and maimed, because of 'Ace Ventura' Bush's lies, faith and incompetence.

5th June 2003, 05:29 PM	#10
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Tricky This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth? Most employed Iraqis worked for the state. Currently its a source of tension since now the majority of employed Iraqis were layed off as a result of their employer filing chapter 86. What do you call a country like Iraq? Communist? Socialist? I call it a cluster-f*ck.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

5th June 2003, 05:29 PM	#11
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,329	First of all it took ages to present the evidence to the UN, now it is taking ages to present the evidence again. I think the truth is easy to say, it is the lies that take a while to work out.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

5th June 2003, 05:30 PM	#12
Gem Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 477	Quote: .) 'liberated' Iraq, U.S.S.R. style (i.e.: the invasion of Afghanistan in 1980); I would have to disagree on this point. the USSR Afgan invasion is a lot different fromt he Iraq war, in terms of military strategy, time and humanitarian treatment of civilians. If you want to compare Soviet invasion of Afganistan to a US war, compare it to Viet-Nam. Gem
Gem Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 477

5th June 2003, 05:46 PM	#13
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	My point there, is that according to the news of the fights and protests in Iraq, the Iraqis feel as much 'liberated' by Bush in this war, as they would have been by the former U.S.S.R., or by Japan, China or any other culture that has nothing in common with them. The Iraqis say to this kind of 'liberation': no, thanks. And by the way: there are no WMD, imminent threat WMD -mind you-, either. But gee: there is oil in Iraq, and there is Halliburton in U.S. where the U.S. Vice-President Cheney was C.E.O. in 2000.

5th June 2003, 05:52 PM	#14
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Tricky Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus? Tricky..... When all the worlds problems are caused by an evil conspiracy of socialists then anyone who causes a problem must be a socialist. Thats how JK can comfortably label totalitarian dictators as socialists.... Anyway, why not join me in a song? Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay Um diddle diddle diddle um diddle ay Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious! Even though the sound of it Is something quite atrocious If you say it loud enough You'll always sound precocious Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious!
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

5th June 2003, 05:55 PM	#15
no one in particular muse Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,004	Quote: Originally posted by Ion there is oil in Iraq, and there is Halliburton in the U.S. where the U.S. Vice-President Cheney used to be C.E.O. in 2000. My, my Ion . You certainly are pessimistic. I would think you would be more positive . I herby declare that this joke should never be used again! edited to bold/size4/underline/color the main premises of the joke.
	__________________ We need more xoup.

5th June 2003, 06:03 PM	#16
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Quote: Originally posted by no one in particular ... I herby declare that this joke should never be used again! OK. Tell this "...this joke should never be used again!" to Bush: this joke of a war went way too far.

5th June 2003, 06:10 PM	#17
no one in particular muse Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,004	Quote: Originally posted by Ion OK. Tell this "...this joke should never be used again!" to Bush: this joke of a war went way too far. Chuckle, I assumed you would get the joke, sorry. Would someone else like to explain to “Ion” what he/she missed?
	__________________ We need more xoup.

5th June 2003, 06:13 PM	#18
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Quote: Originally posted by no one in particular ... Would someone else like to explain to “Ion” what he/she missed? Start with what you missed.

5th June 2003, 06:27 PM	#19
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Tricky This is the howler to me. Saddam was a socialist? Tell me Jedi, what socialist programs did Saddam espouse? Socialized medicine? Redistribution of wealth? Really do you just spout these words because of some strange bigots' Turrette's syndrome? Did you misplace your tokens for the clue bus? Gosh, you mean to say Iraq was a democracy before we invaded? JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 06:35 PM	#20
Bjorn Off Topic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,974	I don't believe what I'm reading. Are there only two alternatives - democracy or socialist? What about all the americans here claiming that the US is not a democracy? It must be socialist then ...
	__________________ Little did I know, that all those days that came and went, were my life ....

5th June 2003, 06:37 PM	#21
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight ...you mean to say Iraq was a democracy before we invaded? JK You mean to say that Iraq is a democracy after U.S. invaded it?

5th June 2003, 06:39 PM	#22
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by Bjorn I don't believe what I'm reading. Are there only two alternatives - democracy or socialist? What about all the americans here claiming that the US is not a democracy? It must be socialist then ... America isn't a socialist country yet, but it is well on its way to turning into one. Iraq was a socialist Satrap nation-state. If you guys want lessons about all these countries and their political systems, I tutor for $45.00 an hour. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 06:41 PM	#23
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Ion You mean to say that Iraq is a democracy after U.S. invaded it? Right now it is even freer. That will change once the angry feminist matriarchal totalitarians begin to influence policy remotely over there and really do a job on the Iraqis. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 06:42 PM	#24
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	And if GWB produces nothing in some reasonable time (say a month), JK, will you agree with me that he is a lieing coward? Again, I am not saying that the war was not for the good, just that GWB is an LC.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

5th June 2003, 06:45 PM	#25
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: President Bush Is Going To Give IRAQ WMD Evidence Information Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Right now it is even freer. ... JK It is as free as China invading Iraq with Chinese style of freedom values. By the same token of 'freer', how would you like the Iraqis taking over U.S. with their 'freeing' values?

5th June 2003, 06:48 PM	#26
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by Ed And if GWB produces nothing in some reasonable time (say a month), JK, will you agree with me that he is a lieing coward? Again, I am not saying that the war was not for the good, just that GWB is an LC. Bush never lied. You guys are perpetuating a European socialist pro-Saddam cover. France and Germany provided cover for Saddam to shift his WMD assets. The weeks the UN was indecisive before the invasion combined with the majorly wasted time Hans Blix used bringing a handful of inspectors back to Iraq was used by the Baath Party to mask its WMD. I have no doubts whatsoever that more Iraqi WMD will turn up because it already is. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 07:03 PM	#27
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Bush never lied. ... JK Under Bush's watch: .) it was a U.S. report lying in the U.N. Security Council, .) it was a forged document about an Iraqi nuclear program aided by Nigeria, that convinced the U.S. Congress to war against Iraq. These lies killed Iraqis in a war costing U.S. $78 billion. The $78 billion were not invested instead in the U.S. economy. The newspaper The San Diego Union Tribune from Thursday May 22, 2003, reports under 'CIA conducting review of prewar reports on Iraq': "The failure of U.S. forces to find either conclusive evidence of Iraq's ties to Al-Qaeda or unconventional weapons has added urgency to the study's outcome. The review, which has the support of many analysts and officials who have said the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,..." Read carefully: "...the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,...". Like U.S.S.R. used to be, U.S. is now: .) military, and .) not much of a strong economy -2.8 million jobs lost since 2000, that could have been better supported with $78 billion-. Bush spells disaster.

5th June 2003, 07:06 PM	#28
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,294	These boobs said they had the proof that would show just what a danger Iraq actually is long before the shooting even started. But of course, they never showed it. Now that the shooting is over, they still do not have this proof. Guess what? We have been lied to again in order to justify a war that was not necessary.
	__________________ A man's best friend is his dogma.

5th June 2003, 07:11 PM	#29
Bjorn Off Topic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,974	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight If you guys want lessons about all these countries and their political systems, I tutor for $45.00 an hour. JK Hehe. I'll think about listening for that kind of money .... please send a recorded lecture and the money order?
	__________________ Little did I know, that all those days that came and went, were my life ....

5th June 2003, 07:19 PM	#30
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,820	Quote: The Fool- Cryptofacistfeminaziliberalalidocious! Bravo! Bravo!

5th June 2003, 07:39 PM	#31
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Okey dokey, then. Quote: Originally posted by Crossbow These boobs said they had the proof that would show just what a danger Iraq actually is long before the shooting even started. But of course, they never showed it. Now that the shooting is over, they still do not have this proof. Guess what? We have been lied to again in order to justify a war that was not necessary. Yes: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview March 30, 2003 "I don't know the answer." Donald Rumsfeld Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations May 27, 2003 and from: Wolfowitz admits war about oil. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asked why a nuclear power such as North Korea was being treated differently from Iraq, where hardly any weapons of mass destruction had been found, the deputy defence minister said: "Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, how much of this U.S. religious and neo-conservative goofing is affecting life on earth? Hundreds of dead and mutilated, $78 billion wasted, 2.8 million jobs in U.S. that are lost and not fought for, U.S. international relations severed from Europe to Africa.

5th June 2003, 07:40 PM	#32
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Bush never lied. You guys are perpetuating a European socialist pro-Saddam cover. JK Horseshet, JK. I said precisely this (about how he damn well better deliver WMD's) before the stupid war even started since GWD was hanging the whole thing on that assertion. Tell me. Is demanding honesty particularly European or socialist? Are you suggesting that the outrage that some felt over Clinton's unfamiliarity with the concept of truth was socialist? This is not a reaction on the part of commies to a sucessful war, rather it is a question that was held in abeyance during hostilities that now is appropriately surfacing. Frankly, JK, the more you spin this thing, the less your credibility.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

5th June 2003, 07:54 PM	#33
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by Ed Horseshet, JK. I said precisely this (about how he damn well better deliver WMD's) before the stupid war even started since GWD was hanging the whole thing on that assertion. Tell me. Is demanding honesty particularly European or socialist? Are you suggesting that the outrage that some felt over Clinton's unfamiliarity with the concept of truth was socialist? This is not a reaction on the part of commies to a sucessful war, rather it is a question that was held in abeyance during hostilities that now is appropriately surfacing. Frankly, JK, the more you spin this thing, the less your credibility. My credibility sparkles like the sun with brilliance and warmth and unwavering power. You said Bush lied. He didn't lie. The only thing Bush has done is quote accurate intel reports of Saddam's WMD capabilities. If Saddam came clean he would not have been invaded and destroyed. Saddam wanted the fight and he got it. Also, my pointing out of the leftist attacks on Bush regardless of the circumstances regarding the war is right on target too. European leaders knew of the genocide there. Saddam has killed more Muslims than any other man in written history--yet Europe was silent about it. The US has found WMD in Iraq. Case closed. Iraq was taken out and is now being rebuilt--game over. Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president, and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal. I think guys like you in denial are the ones with credibility issues. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

5th June 2003, 08:00 PM	#34
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight ... Bush is the man, the myth, the legend. He is untouchable. He is the real kevlar president, and he saved the United States from destruction from Iraqi terrorist WMD support. Bush deserves a medal. ... JK Sure, Bush deserves a medal: from you. Me, I stick with this: Quote: Originally posted by Ion ... The newspaper The San Diego Union Tribune from Thursday May 22, 2003, reports under 'CIA conducting review of prewar reports on Iraq': "The failure of U.S. forces to find either conclusive evidence of Iraq's ties to Al-Qaeda or unconventional weapons has added urgency to the study's outcome. The review, which has the support of many analysts and officials who have said the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,..." ... To each, its own, you know?

5th June 2003, 08:33 PM	#35
Ion Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, California, US Posts: 3,262	Below is as 'good' as the mobile biological weapons facility get, according to a report by the Pentagon. The report notes that the trailers contain a fermenter, water-supply tanks, an air compressor, a water-chiller, a device for collecting exhaust gases—just the right components for an "ingeniously simple, self-contained bioprocessing system." The trailers are also "strikingly similar" to descriptions of mobile-bioweapons plants provided by Iraqi exiles who claim to have worked in them or witnessed others who did. Secretary of State Colin Powell displayed drawings, based on these descriptions, during his Feb. 5 "smoking-gun" briefing to the U.N. Security Council. Together with this Pentagon report, a CIA report reveals considerable ambiguity about the nature of these vehicles. For example, it notes that Iraqi officials—presumably those currently being interrogated—say the trailers were used to produce hydrogen for artillery weather-balloons. (Note: many army units float balloons to monitor the accuracy of artillery fire.) In response to this claim, the report states: "Some of the features of the trailer—a gas-collection system and the presence of caustic—are consistent with both bioproduction and hydrogen production. The plant's design possibly could be used to produce hydrogen using a chemical reaction, but it would be inefficient. The capacity of this trailer is larger than the typical units for hydrogen production for weather balloons." (One could ask: since when was Saddam's Iraq considered a model of efficiency?) The report concedes that U.S. officials found no traces of any bioweapons agent inside the trailers. "We suspect," it states, "that the Iraqis thoroughly decontaminated the vehicle to remove evidence." (Comment: that's possible.) The report also notes that, in order to produce biological weapons, each trailer would have to be accompanied by a second and possibly a third trailer, specially designed to grow, process, sterilize, and dry the bacteria. Such trailers would "have equipment such as mixing tanks, centrifuges, and spray dryers"—none of which were spotted in the trailers that were found. The problem, the CIA acknowledges, is that "we have not yet found" these post-production trailers. (Question: is it that they haven't been found—or that they don't exist?)