Top Professor receives Stand Down Order from BYU

chipmunk stew · 8th September 2006, 05:28 AM

Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU:

Quote:

University officials informed Jones of the decision to place him on leave Thursday afternoon and released a statement to the newspaper Thursday night.

"BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty," the statement said. "We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html

gumboot · 8th September 2006, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU:

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html

He's clearly getting too close to the trooth.

-Andrew

realitybites · 8th September 2006, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU:

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html

Paid leave.... How is that disciplinary in any way? I've never understood.

"You're an *****' nutjob, so we're gonna pay you to not work."

The only plus side is that he won't have contact with those young, impressionable minds at BYU.

brodski · 8th September 2006, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by realitybites

Paid leave.... How is that disciplinary in any way? I've never understood.

"You're an *****' nutjob, so we're gonna pay you to not work."

The only plus side is that he won't have contact with those young, impressionable minds at BYU.

Well, paid leave is usually shorthand for, we'll pay you not to work until we ccan find a cheep way of getting rid of you.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, obviously the university as a private business can hire and fire as they choose, but I think this is just going to make a martyr out of him. Anyone smart enough to make it to university should (not "do") have the thinking skills to see through his bull, I don't agree with limiting the ideas which undergrads are exposed to. However this doesn’t mean that the university should have to pay him to spread his lies. Like I say, I'm unsure where I stand.

pgwenthold · 8th September 2006, 06:08 AM

Paid leave would be awesome!

I could get so much more of my work done if I didn't have these stupid university assignments (teaching, committees) getting in my way.

Place me on "leave" and all I will be able to do is to write papers and proposals. I only wish for the opportunity.

Katana · 8th September 2006, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

Well, paid leave is usually shorthand for, we'll pay you not to work until we ccan find a cheep way of getting rid of you.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, obviously the university as a private business can hire and fire as they choose, but I think this is just going to make a martyr out of him. Anyone smart enough to make it to university should (not "do") have the thinking skills to see through his bull, I don't agree with limiting the ideas which undergrads are exposed to. However this doesn’t mean that the university should have to pay him to spread his lies. Like I say, I'm unsure where I stand.

But, brodski, what if they're not lies?

brodski · 8th September 2006, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Katana

But, brodski, what if they're not lies?

I have been assured by my Mi6 handlers that they are lies.

Katana · 8th September 2006, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

I have been assured by my Mi6 handlers that they are lies.

Phew!

Dog Town · 8th September 2006, 06:44 AM

No tenure,huh, interesting twist. Looks like a good year for the Truth!
I think Steven is going to have a few less friends.Let the scholars pay his research bills, see how long that lasts. Score one for the Mormons!

Abbyas · 8th September 2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

"BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues," the university statement said.

Well, THAT'S for sure.

realitybites · 8th September 2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

"BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues," the university statement said.

... Like having scientific papers published in scientific venues has anything to do with anything.... Pish-posh, I say.

carlvs · 8th September 2006, 08:00 AM

I guess even BYU couldn't stand the flawed science in his last effort (see democraticunderground [dot] com/discuss/duboard [dot] php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=109488&mesg_id =109488 for the sorted details - the fun begins at post #8 ...

)

Darth Rotor · 8th September 2006, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU:

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html

It is completely appropriate for the University to censure or punish him, even replace him, if he cannot uphold high ethical and academic standards.

This isn't censorship, this is similar to firing a professor for plagiarism or faking the results of an experiment: he is embarassing the academic integrity of BYU.

DR

Matthew Best · 8th September 2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

"Continuing status," Jenkins said, "grants the expectation that faculty members will have continuing employment at the university, although it is not a guarantee. They still need to meet satisfactory performance levels for scholarship, citizenship and teaching."

I don't know about his teaching, but I think there are at least doubts about his scholarship and citizenship, don't you?

Loss Leader · 8th September 2006, 08:49 AM

Somehow, Jones is gonna spin this as though it's a badge of honor. He speaks the truth so clearly that even BYU had to fire him to help cover up the conspiracy, etc.

Brainache · 8th September 2006, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Somehow, Jones is gonna spin this as though it's a badge of honor. He speaks the truth so clearly that even BYU had to fire him to help cover up the conspiracy, etc.

So it wasn't the Jooos it was the MORMONS!!11!!1!1!

Arus808 · 8th September 2006, 08:57 AM

Watch jones now spin it (with Dylan and Fetzer) stating that the university was "pressured" by the guberment, to quite jones. ^_~

Peephole · 8th September 2006, 10:05 AM

Jones claims his paper has gone through two peer-reviews. But as far as I know, it was only peer-reviewed by Griffin, well at least Griffin claims it was.

Can anyone shed any light on what that second peer-review alledgedly is?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 8th September 2006, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Peephole

Jones claims his paper has gone through two peer-reviews. But as far as I know, it was only peer-reviewed by Griffin, well at least Griffin claims it was.

Can anyone shed any light on what that second peer-review alledgedly is?

I would guess ST911, which is, of course, not a peer reviewed journal in any academic or professional sense.

Arus808 · 8th September 2006, 10:09 AM

I would ask that Jones submit his papers to the ASCE first before saying its been "peer- reviewed".

Pardalis · 8th September 2006, 10:14 AM

Maybe he asked this guy to read it.

http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/fs/food/fo...veme5/pear.htm

Abbyas · 8th September 2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/fs/food/fo...veme5/pear.htm
__________________

Took me a couple of seconds.

Pardalis · 8th September 2006, 10:26 AM

Well, peer review is technically the evaluation of a work by other people in the same field. Jones' field is crazy paranoid conspiracism.

His "peers" read his stuff and said:" Yeah, that's grade "A" crazy paranoid conspiracy sh**. Nice work."

And he got his stamp of approval.

senorpogo · 8th September 2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Paid leave would be awesome!

I could get so much more of my work done if I didn't have these stupid university assignments (teaching, committees) getting in my way.

Place me on "leave" and all I will be able to do is to write papers and proposals. I only wish for the opportunity.

Start producing some crazy wacked out theories backed by poor, poor science and I'm sure your employers will oblige.

R.Mackey · 8th September 2006, 10:27 AM

This doesn't surprise me. I gave my thoughts on how to handle Steven Jones in this thread, and while I feel it's a grey area, Jones has been walking a fine line for years.

The most serious transgression is probably his "journal." I've worked with professors who've run conferences, published proceedings, even started journals in the past, and even where those are controversial, they don't usually irritate their University -- quite the opposite, a new journal is generally a point of honor and prestige. But one needs to do so properly.

It takes almost no investigation at all to see that his "journal" falls well short of the standards for peer review. All he would have had to do is bring some qualified professors into his review board, and make the process of submission, review, and revision transparent. Of course, had he done so, his "journal" might have been very short indeed.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 8th September 2006, 10:52 AM

For that matter, how did Jones survive at BYU following his cold fusion scandal?

T.A.M. · 8th September 2006, 10:57 AM

so the gubmint got to dem profs at BYU, and now deh is discreditin da valid credentials of da bravist s-eye-entist ever to be born...dem damn gubimint devil worshippers.

Gravy · 8th September 2006, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

It is completely appropriate for the University to censure or punish him, even replace him, if he cannot uphold high ethical and academic standards.

This isn't censorship, this is similar to firing a professor for plagiarism or faking the results of an experiment: he is embarassing the academic integrity of BYU.

DR

Agreed. He brings shame upon their house. Surprised he wasn't tenured, though.

R.Mackey · 8th September 2006, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

For that matter, how did Jones survive at BYU following his cold fusion scandal?

Cold Fusion embarrassed quite a few people. I haven't looked up Pons or Fleischman recently, but I imagine they suffered as a result. Jones was not a major player in the eyes of the public.

There's nothing wrong with researching wacky things (provided somebody will fund you to try). But you must always be prepared to disclose a negative result, be honest about your data and methods, and take criticism seriously. A good researcher will even raise his own doubts and ask others to not only replicate his work, but try to find alternate explanations.

This is not business as usual among the "Scholars for Truth."

chipmunk stew · 8th September 2006, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Agreed. He brings shame upon their house. Surprised he wasn't tenured, though.

That's mainly because BYU doesn't tenure professors, according to the article:

Quote:

BYU does not grant tenure, generally regarded as a permanent position, to professors. However, it does give continuing status to professors found worthy after six years on campus.

chipmunk stew · 8th September 2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

Cold Fusion embarrassed quite a few people. I haven't looked up Pons or Fleischman recently, but I imagine they suffered as a result. Jones was not a major player in the eyes of the public.

There's nothing wrong with researching wacky things (provided somebody will fund you to try). But you must always be prepared to disclose a negative result, be honest about your data and methods, and take criticism seriously. A good researcher will even raise his own doubts and ask others to not only replicate his work, but try to find alternate explanations.

This is not business as usual among the "Scholars for Truth."

Jones actually still talks up his cold fusion research, distancing himself from Pons and Fleischman, and insisting on calling it "metal-catalyzed" fusion.

R.Mackey · 8th September 2006, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

Jones actually still talks up his cold fusion research, distancing himself from Pons and Fleischman, and insisting on calling it "metal-catalyzed" fusion.

Yeah, I've read up on Jones. He's not the only one still chasing Palladium dreams, not by a long shot. And one never knows. I cannot categorically say that room-temperature fusion is impossible, even though it seems unlikely. I'm not at all against him continuing his pursuit.

However, Jones would be incorrect in stating that his results to date are anything other than negative. Even "inconclusive" is a stretch.

chipmunk stew · 8th September 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

Yeah, I've read up on Jones. He's not the only one still chasing Palladium dreams, not by a long shot. And one never knows. I cannot categorically say that room-temperature fusion is impossible, even though it seems unlikely. I'm not at all against him continuing his pursuit.

However, Jones would be incorrect in stating that his results to date are anything other than negative. Even "inconclusive" is a stretch.

Yeah. And yet, if I'm not mistaken I've read him refer to them as "promising".

Sword_Of_Truth · 8th September 2006, 12:12 PM

As I've said before, BYU is wholly owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Every church employee, from the building manager at my local chapel to the dean of BYU are under a morality clause.

If Jones doesn't keep his spiritual I's dotted and T's crossed, he's out.

I think it will be interesting to see where Jones (who has always claimed to be a devout mormon) goes with this. My guess is he will either have to make some apology for some of his actions, or he will turf himself from the church. We believe the church to be guided by divine inspiration. IF these 9-11 theories are true, God is certainly aware of it and would not allow his church to become a tool of these modern day "Gadianton Robbers" (a band of of evil conspirators responsible for provoking a series of wars for thier own gain in the Book of Mormon).

If Jones accuses the church of bending over for the gadiantons, he is basically throwing out one of our foundational beliefs.

Either way, he won't be our problem anymore.

bjb · 8th September 2006, 12:46 PM

I came across a paper written by one of his studentswho was (mis)using the 2nd law of thermodynamics to show that WTC 7 could not have fallen because of fire alone! I think Jones has a right to free speech but BYU has the responsibility of making sure their professors aren't teaching their students to be crackpots.

VespaGuy · 8th September 2006, 12:58 PM

From the parallel thread over in the Loose Change Forums:

MJChicago

Quote:

does he not have tenure?

FidelCastro

Quote:

Nope, I believe he is non-tenure.

The article they are commenting on is quoted, in full, in the opening post of that thread. Here's the related paragraph. (emphasis mine)

Quote:

BYU does not grant tenure, generally regarded as a permanent position, to professors. However, it does give continuing status to professors found worthy after six years on campus.

Do the loosers have poor reading skills or do they only understand something when it is presented in video format?

jhunter1163 · 8th September 2006, 01:45 PM

I assume that he will soon "resign" from BYU to pursue "other endeavors".

Translation into plain English: "We'll pay you X dollars to quietly go away and spare us the embarrassment of explaining how it is you managed to stay on our faculty this long anyway."

Sword_Of_Truth · 12th September 2006, 01:39 AM

The 9-11 deniers are going to go nuts over this:

This picture was taken a few days before Jones's recent vacation was announced. We all know who the gentleman on the right is. The small grey haired man is mormon Prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley. Just behind him and mostly obscured is his 1st councilor, Thomas S. Monson.

You just know what the deniers are going to assume. That the mormon church has knuckled under to the NWO.

Ironically, I first came here to defend my religion. To assure the sceptics that Jones doesn't represent us. Now the shoe is likely going to end up on the other foot. I'll get to defend my faith from a jihad declared by the truthseeker cult!

This should be amusing.

brumsen · 12th September 2006, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

The most serious transgression is probably his "journal."

I quite agree, but....

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

The 9-11 deniers are going to go nuts over this:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...20Hinckley.jpg

This picture was taken a few days before Jones's recent vacation was announced.

... shouldn't we be worried about this coincidence nonetheless?

Sword_Of_Truth · 12th September 2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by brumsen

I quite agree, but....

... shouldn't we be worried about this coincidence nonetheless?

If the voices of the sponge demons that live inside your walls tell you to, then yes.

8th September 2006, 05:28 AM	#1
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Top Professor receives Stand Down Order from BYU Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU: Quote: University officials informed Jones of the decision to place him on leave Thursday afternoon and released a statement to the newspaper Thursday night. "BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty," the statement said. "We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones." http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html
	__________________

8th September 2006, 05:46 AM	#2
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,127	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU: http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html He's clearly getting too close to the trooth. -Andrew
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

8th September 2006, 05:58 AM	#3
realitybites Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 1,066	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU: http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html Paid leave.... How is that disciplinary in any way? I've never understood. "You're an *****' nutjob, so we're gonna pay you to not work." The only plus side is that he won't have contact with those young, impressionable minds at BYU.
	__________________ This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. 102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers. A Must Read.

8th September 2006, 06:03 AM	#4
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,089	Originally Posted by realitybites Paid leave.... How is that disciplinary in any way? I've never understood. "You're an ****' nutjob, so we're gonna pay you to not work." The only plus side is that he won't have contact with those young, impressionable minds at BYU. Well, paid leave is usually shorthand for, we'll pay you not to work until we ccan find a cheep way of getting rid of you. I'm not sure how I feel about this, obviously the university as a private business can hire and fire as they choose, but I think this is just going to make a martyr out of him. Anyone smart enough to make it to university should* (not "do") have the thinking skills to see through his bull, I don't agree with limiting the ideas which undergrads are exposed to. However this doesn’t mean that the university should have to pay him to spread his lies. Like I say, I'm unsure where I stand.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,089

8th September 2006, 06:08 AM	#5
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,074	Paid leave would be awesome! I could get so much more of my work done if I didn't have these stupid university assignments (teaching, committees) getting in my way. Place me on "leave" and all I will be able to do is to write papers and proposals. I only wish for the opportunity.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

8th September 2006, 06:10 AM	#6
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Originally Posted by brodski Well, paid leave is usually shorthand for, we'll pay you not to work until we ccan find a cheep way of getting rid of you. I'm not sure how I feel about this, obviously the university as a private business can hire and fire as they choose, but I think this is just going to make a martyr out of him. Anyone smart enough to make it to university should (not "do") have the thinking skills to see through his bull, I don't agree with limiting the ideas which undergrads are exposed to. However this doesn’t mean that the university should have to pay him to spread his lies. Like I say, I'm unsure where I stand. But, brodski, what if they're not lies?
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

8th September 2006, 06:16 AM	#7
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,089	Originally Posted by Katana But, brodski, what if they're not lies? I have been assured by my Mi6 handlers that they are lies.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,089

8th September 2006, 06:18 AM	#8
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Originally Posted by brodski I have been assured by my Mi6 handlers that they are lies. Phew!
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

8th September 2006, 06:44 AM	#9
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,466	No tenure,huh, interesting twist. Looks like a good year for the Truth! I think Steven is going to have a few less friends.Let the scholars pay his research bills, see how long that lasts. Score one for the Mormons!
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

8th September 2006, 06:46 AM	#10
Abbyas Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 686	Quote: "BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues," the university statement said. Well, THAT'S for sure.
	__________________ www.abbyscott.blogspot.com 911 Conspiracy Wars: Nutters at Ground Zero

8th September 2006, 07:25 AM	#11
realitybites Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 1,066	Quote: "BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues," the university statement said. ... Like having scientific papers published in scientific venues has anything to do with anything.... Pish-posh, I say.
	__________________ This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. 102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers. A Must Read.

8th September 2006, 08:00 AM	#12
carlvs Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 185	I guess even BYU couldn't stand the flawed science in his last effort (see democraticunderground [dot] com/discuss/duboard [dot] php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=109488&mesg_id =109488 for the sorted details - the fun begins at post #8 ...)
carlvs Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 185

8th September 2006, 08:15 AM	#13
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,279	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew Steven Jones has been placed on paid leave by BYU: http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...199800,00.html It is completely appropriate for the University to censure or punish him, even replace him, if he cannot uphold high ethical and academic standards. This isn't censorship, this is similar to firing a professor for plagiarism or faking the results of an experiment: he is embarassing the academic integrity of BYU. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

8th September 2006, 08:41 AM	#14
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,147	Quote: "Continuing status," Jenkins said, "grants the expectation that faculty members will have continuing employment at the university, although it is not a guarantee. They still need to meet satisfactory performance levels for scholarship, citizenship and teaching." I don't know about his teaching, but I think there are at least doubts about his scholarship and citizenship, don't you?

8th September 2006, 08:49 AM	#15
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Somehow, Jones is gonna spin this as though it's a badge of honor. He speaks the truth so clearly that even BYU had to fire him to help cover up the conspiracy, etc.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

8th September 2006, 08:52 AM	#16
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Somehow, Jones is gonna spin this as though it's a badge of honor. He speaks the truth so clearly that even BYU had to fire him to help cover up the conspiracy, etc. So it wasn't the Jooos it was the MORMONS!!11!!1!1!
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

8th September 2006, 08:57 AM	#17
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202	Watch jones now spin it (with Dylan and Fetzer) stating that the university was "pressured" by the guberment, to quite jones. ^_~
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202

8th September 2006, 10:05 AM	#18
Peephole Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,246	Jones claims his paper has gone through two peer-reviews. But as far as I know, it was only peer-reviewed by Griffin, well at least Griffin claims it was. Can anyone shed any light on what that second peer-review alledgedly is?
Peephole Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,246

8th September 2006, 10:07 AM	#19
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by Peephole Jones claims his paper has gone through two peer-reviews. But as far as I know, it was only peer-reviewed by Griffin, well at least Griffin claims it was. Can anyone shed any light on what that second peer-review alledgedly is? I would guess ST911, which is, of course, not a peer reviewed journal in any academic or professional sense.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

8th September 2006, 10:09 AM	#20
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202	I would ask that Jones submit his papers to the ASCE first before saying its been "peer- reviewed".
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202

8th September 2006, 10:14 AM	#21
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Maybe he asked this guy to read it. http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/fs/food/fo...veme5/pear.htm

8th September 2006, 10:17 AM	#22
Abbyas Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 686	Quote: http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/fs/food/fo...veme5/pear.htm __________________ Took me a couple of seconds.
	__________________ www.abbyscott.blogspot.com 911 Conspiracy Wars: Nutters at Ground Zero

8th September 2006, 10:26 AM	#23
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Well, peer review is technically the evaluation of a work by other people in the same field. Jones' field is crazy paranoid conspiracism. His "peers" read his stuff and said:" Yeah, that's grade "A" crazy paranoid conspiracy sh**. Nice work." And he got his stamp of approval.

8th September 2006, 10:26 AM	#24
senorpogo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,094	Originally Posted by pgwenthold Paid leave would be awesome! I could get so much more of my work done if I didn't have these stupid university assignments (teaching, committees) getting in my way. Place me on "leave" and all I will be able to do is to write papers and proposals. I only wish for the opportunity. Start producing some crazy wacked out theories backed by poor, poor science and I'm sure your employers will oblige.
	__________________ The distinct advantage of a goat is that it can be taught to butt anyone who tries to steal it.

8th September 2006, 10:27 AM	#25
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	He had it coming This doesn't surprise me. I gave my thoughts on how to handle Steven Jones in this thread, and while I feel it's a grey area, Jones has been walking a fine line for years. The most serious transgression is probably his "journal." I've worked with professors who've run conferences, published proceedings, even started journals in the past, and even where those are controversial, they don't usually irritate their University -- quite the opposite, a new journal is generally a point of honor and prestige. But one needs to do so properly. It takes almost no investigation at all to see that his "journal" falls well short of the standards for peer review. All he would have had to do is bring some qualified professors into his review board, and make the process of submission, review, and revision transparent. Of course, had he done so, his "journal" might have been very short indeed.

8th September 2006, 10:52 AM	#26
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	For that matter, how did Jones survive at BYU following his cold fusion scandal?
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

8th September 2006, 10:57 AM	#27
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	so the gubmint got to dem profs at BYU, and now deh is discreditin da valid credentials of da bravist s-eye-entist ever to be born...dem damn gubimint devil worshippers.

8th September 2006, 11:00 AM	#28
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor It is completely appropriate for the University to censure or punish him, even replace him, if he cannot uphold high ethical and academic standards. This isn't censorship, this is similar to firing a professor for plagiarism or faking the results of an experiment: he is embarassing the academic integrity of BYU. DR Agreed. He brings shame upon their house. Surprised he wasn't tenured, though.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

8th September 2006, 11:03 AM	#30
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by Gravy Agreed. He brings shame upon their house. Surprised he wasn't tenured, though. That's mainly because BYU doesn't tenure professors, according to the article: Quote: BYU does not grant tenure, generally regarded as a permanent position, to professors. However, it does give continuing status to professors found worthy after six years on campus.
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8th September 2006, 11:05 AM	#31
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by R.Mackey Cold Fusion embarrassed quite a few people. I haven't looked up Pons or Fleischman recently, but I imagine they suffered as a result. Jones was not a major player in the eyes of the public. There's nothing wrong with researching wacky things (provided somebody will fund you to try). But you must always be prepared to disclose a negative result, be honest about your data and methods, and take criticism seriously. A good researcher will even raise his own doubts and ask others to not only replicate his work, but try to find alternate explanations. This is not business as usual among the "Scholars for Truth." Jones actually still talks up his cold fusion research, distancing himself from Pons and Fleischman, and insisting on calling it "metal-catalyzed" fusion.
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8th September 2006, 11:11 AM	#32
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew Jones actually still talks up his cold fusion research, distancing himself from Pons and Fleischman, and insisting on calling it "metal-catalyzed" fusion. Yeah, I've read up on Jones. He's not the only one still chasing Palladium dreams, not by a long shot. And one never knows. I cannot categorically say that room-temperature fusion is impossible, even though it seems unlikely. I'm not at all against him continuing his pursuit. However, Jones would be incorrect in stating that his results to date are anything other than negative. Even "inconclusive" is a stretch.

8th September 2006, 11:19 AM	#33
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by R.Mackey Yeah, I've read up on Jones. He's not the only one still chasing Palladium dreams, not by a long shot. And one never knows. I cannot categorically say that room-temperature fusion is impossible, even though it seems unlikely. I'm not at all against him continuing his pursuit. However, Jones would be incorrect in stating that his results to date are anything other than negative. Even "inconclusive" is a stretch. Yeah. And yet, if I'm not mistaken I've read him refer to them as "promising".
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8th September 2006, 12:12 PM	#34
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	As I've said before, BYU is wholly owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Every church employee, from the building manager at my local chapel to the dean of BYU are under a morality clause. If Jones doesn't keep his spiritual I's dotted and T's crossed, he's out. I think it will be interesting to see where Jones (who has always claimed to be a devout mormon) goes with this. My guess is he will either have to make some apology for some of his actions, or he will turf himself from the church. We believe the church to be guided by divine inspiration. IF these 9-11 theories are true, God is certainly aware of it and would not allow his church to become a tool of these modern day "Gadianton Robbers" (a band of of evil conspirators responsible for provoking a series of wars for thier own gain in the Book of Mormon). If Jones accuses the church of bending over for the gadiantons, he is basically throwing out one of our foundational beliefs. Either way, he won't be our problem anymore.

8th September 2006, 12:46 PM	#35
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079	I came across a paper written by one of his studentswho was (mis)using the 2nd law of thermodynamics to show that WTC 7 could not have fallen because of fire alone! I think Jones has a right to free speech but BYU has the responsibility of making sure their professors aren't teaching their students to be crackpots.
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079

8th September 2006, 12:58 PM	#36
VespaGuy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,036	From the parallel thread over in the Loose Change Forums: MJChicago Quote: does he not have tenure? FidelCastro Quote: Nope, I believe he is non-tenure. The article they are commenting on is quoted, in full, in the opening post of that thread. Here's the related paragraph. (emphasis mine) Quote: BYU does not grant tenure, generally regarded as a permanent position, to professors. However, it does give continuing status to professors found worthy after six years on campus. Do the loosers have poor reading skills or do they only understand something when it is presented in video format?
	Last edited by VespaGuy; 8th September 2006 at 01:00 PM. Reason: fixed tags