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13th September 2006, 12:10 PM | #1 |
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More pics, more war stories from GZ 9/11/06
Some photos from Monday: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nyctours/sets/
I'm still so sickened by the despicable denialist behavior at Ground Zero that I don't feel like writing about it, but It's high time I got to the positive stuff, and I feel overwhelmingly positive about our presence there. First, Abby, realitybites, and Kate (Debunk911Myths) were all far too modest about their accomplishments. While there were many people who voiced their displeasure at the deniers, as far as I could tell there were only five of us who had the knowledge and desire to take them on in depth. The fifth was Mark Ferran, who came down from Albany, as he did on 9/11/01 to help with rescue efforts. We didn't know he was there until nearly the end of the day, so he was taking them on by himself all day. And Kate deserves all the credit in the world for coming up from D.C. Many people had emailed me over the past few months from around the country, saying they were going to try to make it to NY for 9/11, but Kate actually did it, and she knew her stuff. So, it was five against more than a thousand. I'm guessing that the black shirt crowd was 1,000: a good showing but nothing like what the Loosers had predicted. Then there were many deniers who didn't hang with that crowd and didn't play by their rules. We took on all comers. We kicked denier ass with facts and received the gratitude of hundreds of people, with firefighters from around the country prominent among them. Quotes from "Loose Change Creators Speak."
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In my opinion, these are the two of the best things about that day: 1) The protesters were far removed, in sight and sound, from the memorial service, and 2) The mainstream media kept their cameras and microphones fixed on the families. But don't take my word for it:
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What about those "wide shots" that had to include the Loosers? There was a scrim placed on the fence around the whole WTC site which prevented gawkers from looking down on the ceremony below and cameras in the bathtub from catching any distracting action above. High on a balcony of WFC #2, west of the site, there were a few dozen mainstream camera crews. They looked down on the site to catch the action, not across the 1/4 mile to where the protesters were staged. Outstanding. And when the mainstream media was near?
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Another thing that was a huge help to us was that the black shirts mostly stayed in one place, their staging area across wide Church Street. When we got there, I was shocked to see that they were associating mostly with themselves. I had thought they'd be swarming everywhere, handing out DVDs, and that we'd have to hustle to chase them down. But that's not what the permit allowed. They were not allowed to congregate in numbers on the WTC site itself. They were allowed to march a prescribed route. That's right, they were herded and penned like...sheeple! After they marched away from the site, some black shirts stuck around and debated, but most of the deniers at that point were unafilliated with them. I had said I wouldn't be speaking to the deniers, but since there was no mainstream media to talk to, whenever we heard someone spewing swill to the private cameras and the community college newspapers, we chimed in. The difficult part about that was that once we started speaking, several deniers would interrupt, shout questions and exclamations, and generally make it difficult to have any kind of rational discussion. Note the sign on the Century 21 store. Photo by Kate. I certainly did raise my voice a number of times in order to be heard above the shouting. We also came across a number of deniers who were polite, didn't raise their voices, and seemed to be listening. More from "Treez"
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At one point I was walking past three young guys with black shirts, and one noticed my name tag that said "Sensible Person." He chuckled a bit and said something like, "you did sound pretty sensible." That was a shock to my system, so I told him he deserved the name tag, and affixed it to him. It turns out that they were students from my alma mater in New Hampshire, filming a documentary. The first thing they said was, "We're not down with all of this stuff, but we do have a lot of questions." And I had a lot of answers. They filmed a good deal of my talk, although many deniers kept butting in, making it difficult for them to get their questions to me. I don't know if I totally converted them, but I turned them on to lots of good resources (we had flyers with internet links). We left on very good terms, and they got a good dose of how rude and ignorant some of the deniers are. Looser encounters: I shook Rowe's hand and introduced myself (he said nothing), gave a pen to Bermas, and saw Avery twice. That's it. They stuck with the crowd for the most part. Didn't see Les Jamieson, but saw most of the rest of the Saturday crowd. The tiny insane lady who said she'd have me arrested if I answered her question was there asking me questions. I reminded her that she was insane. I forgot to give the international cuckoo sign to "See your soul" when he yelled at me, so I ran to catch up with him and did so. Tom Foti absolutely humiliated himself on camera with despicable behavior. Alex Jones wouldn't talk to me on Monday, and refused to go with me to engine company 10 to tell the firefighters they were in on the inside job. We parted ways at 6:30 or so. I was going to go home for a dinner date, until I heard ranting in the distance... Three and a half hours later, I did leave, but not until two men, both bigger than me, hugged me. At separate times. One was crying and the other nearly was. This does not happen every day. Yes, they had both been at O'Hara's a little too long. Many firefighters from around the area and the country listened to us and shook our hands and thanked us. I had a long list of FDNY quotes about WTC 7, longer than anything I've posted here. One of them took dozens of photos of me with a very expensive camera while I was taking on the rantingest moonbat I've yet encountered (Who said he was a mechanical engineer, no less). The firefighter said he'd send me some pics. More stories later. All of you JREF 9/11 debunkers deserve credit for the oases of sanity we were able to create. Thank you. |
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13th September 2006, 12:22 PM | #2 |
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I believe the guy flipping us the bird is Jon Gold.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19751782017310 He posts at conspiracysmashers website. He's a real crazy. He's made various bizzare threats at the conspiracy smasher blog. Wonderful job by the way!!! |
13th September 2006, 12:47 PM | #3 |
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If I was a Catholic, I would nominate you for Sainthood!
Thank you! I look forward to the day I meet some of you! Great Job! |
13th September 2006, 01:22 PM | #4 |
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Good job all around. Kudos to all 4 or you.
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13th September 2006, 01:27 PM | #5 |
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I wonder how many excellent pictures and videos are yet to be released because they are in private collections across the world.
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13th September 2006, 01:36 PM | #6 |
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Gravy/Mark:
Words can't express. Thank you, anyway. RK |
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13th September 2006, 02:15 PM | #7 |
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Thank you, Mark.
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13th September 2006, 02:33 PM | #8 |
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Great job by all and I love the photos!
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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13th September 2006, 03:09 PM | #9 |
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I still want to hear the Alex Jones story.
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13th September 2006, 03:19 PM | #10 |
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Excellent work, all of you who were there. Thank you very much.
Great photos and links and stories, too. Thank you again. |
13th September 2006, 03:30 PM | #11 |
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Simply wonderful.
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13th September 2006, 03:40 PM | #12 |
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Incredible work, Mark (and everyone else)!
Loved the flickr photos. The comment about carefully handing the pen over to Jason was priceless - had me laughing out loud at work. |
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13th September 2006, 03:45 PM | #13 |
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Gravy:
Excellent work. I only regret I didn't meet up with you there. I spent most of the time I was there on the side where the PATH station is, with occasional forays down the side streets. I didn't try to get down to the fourth side of the complex as a large and very stern-looking body of New York's finest were in my path. So, I contented myself with annoying Truthers on my side of the perimeter. Again, well done. |
13th September 2006, 03:49 PM | #14 |
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13th September 2006, 04:13 PM | #15 |
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Editted because I can't post pictures to save my life.
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13th September 2006, 04:27 PM | #16 |
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Five against a thousand, that's a collossal undertaking. You are a very courageous bunch.
I hope the regular people who heard the deniers saw them for what they are, a few ignorant bafoons. |
13th September 2006, 04:34 PM | #17 |
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Thank you for this great insight into what went on a GZ. It is fantastic to hear first hand accounts of this and to see the deniers for what they really are.
Many thanks stateofgrace. |
13th September 2006, 05:03 PM | #18 |
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13th September 2006, 05:10 PM | #19 |
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A great read.
This photo.....is hilarious. Look at them all. In uniform. Like a herd of loyal sheep. http://www.flickr.com/photos/nyctour...7594282054792/ |
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13th September 2006, 07:35 PM | #20 |
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haha. That is a terrific photo.
Check out the police officer to the left. I believe I understand exactly what he's thinking... Like I've told CT's I've encountered elsewhere, "The US Constitution enshrines your inalienable right to be an uneducated, ignorant loudmouth. But please don't exercise that right." Gravy, Abby, Kate, realitybites, jhunter, great job. Always impressed how you keep your cool down there. |
13th September 2006, 08:05 PM | #21 |
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great stuff, ill try and fly myself and the misses over for next year!
hails |
13th September 2006, 08:11 PM | #22 |
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Fantastic work all of you. Thank you Mark for your recounting of what happened. I was motivated to post in my livejournal on 9/11 regarding the nature of humans, and how it is sad only disasters bring out the best in us.
With your actions at Ground Zero you have firmly shown just how human beings can being guiding lights all the time. I salute you sir. -Andrew |
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13th September 2006, 09:14 PM | #23 |
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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13th September 2006, 09:20 PM | #24 |
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Oh I'm not sure it'd be much use for 9/11 stuff... it's mainly vague musings about whatever... though I guess I could use it for research and stuff couldn't I? Hmmmm. Right I'm going to go post my NORAD doc to my LJ right now! Anyway. I muse here -Andrew |
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13th September 2006, 10:28 PM | #25 |
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Indeed. But it's even more apparent when you watch the videos. The blackshirts will chant for a while, stop and then get their cue from the leaders about what to start chanting next. No matter how convoluted and unintelligible to someone not versed in CT.
As I watched I kept thinking: "Four legs good, two legs bad ..." Great job to all who stood up to their lunacy. I doubt I'd have the patience. |
13th September 2006, 10:33 PM | #26 |
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13th September 2006, 10:56 PM | #27 |
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O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tęde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge. |
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14th September 2006, 12:17 AM | #28 |
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14th September 2006, 01:09 AM | #29 |
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Great work Mark and the Gravy Gang! Thanks for posting the stories and the photos - especially the Bermas/pen bit.
And wow, you really do look like Robert De Niro! |
14th September 2006, 01:59 AM | #30 |
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Gravy:
I wasn't there for the grand finale, probably just as well. I did pick up about 10 copies of Loose Change. I quickly and surreptitiously deposited them in the nearest trash can as fast as I acquired them. There were probably less than a hundred Troofers on my side, but it might have looked like more because they kept walking around. I observed the same thing you did; for the most part they talked to themselves. When they did venture to talk to non-Troofers, the reactions were anywhere from polite nodding to outright hostility. I didn't see anyone who really seemed engaged with what the Troofers were saying. It was a really nice, respectful scene. The Troofers obviously missed the entire point: the anniversary was a day for the victims and their families, not for Troofer nonsense. If they really HAD the respect they claim for the victims, they would have found some other day to have their big protest on (and they probably would have stood a better chance of getting media coverage, too). Let's hope they don't learn from their mistake and slink quietly off into the distance. |
14th September 2006, 02:38 AM | #31 |
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14th September 2006, 03:18 AM | #32 |
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Just want to add my words of appreciation to Gravy.
Also I find this quote from Treez amusing:
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14th September 2006, 07:05 AM | #33 |
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/nyctour...7594282054792/
Is that really JDX? If so, when's his birthday. I have the perfect present for him .... a neck. |
14th September 2006, 07:23 AM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I actually imagined him as some teenager, or early 20's at best. This dood looks like 30 something?
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14th September 2006, 07:28 AM | #35 |
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You've gotta get a copy and post the picture. Who's our favorite faux-erudite observationist? You may have Troofseeker1234 on film!
I just went out and converted to deism so I could say God Bless You. I'm going back now to being an Atheist. I really appreciate what you guys do. I spent the day in Hong Kong (our day is almost over by the time you're getting up in NYC) asking everyone what they thought of the theory that the government was in on it and it was all a big fraud. I'm still getting the same puzzled look when I ask. For the most part, the ex-patriates here have no idea that the 911 CT(s) exist. If they have any inkling, it's mostly stuff from Farenheit 911. We get about nine news channels here. Not one mentioned CT nonsense in any broadcast. I don't think it's an item of respect for the memorial or that it would be in bad taste. I think(I hope) it's that no one takes these CTs seriously and there's very little interest. Their paltry showing and the disinterest of the media may simply be an indication that they're preaching to their own choir. A thousand head count is fairly good, but after all their selling of it as the event to awaken the world, they have to be pretty down in the mouth. They'll rant some media conspiracy nonsense, but the hangers-on may not be so quick to turn up for their next non-event. Let's hope so. On a more somber note, let's hope there aren't any T. McVeigh's in waiting in the group, who decide that this is the proof that they need to do something more dramatic. The various anti-Bush sites they hang out in also have some nasty elements out there and horrific links. The white supremacists and neo-nazis feed on disaffected youth. |
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14th September 2006, 08:44 AM | #36 |
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Mark, Abby, realitybites, Kate, jhunter:
You all have my utmost respect. Thanks for sharing your experiences. |
14th September 2006, 10:12 AM | #37 |
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What?!? You mean the government can kill you more than once?? Do the e-vile neocons resurrect you to do it, or do we all have multiple lives to play with? Why wasn't I told of this? Here I was, thinking that when you die, you die. Now I know there must be a conspiracy here somewhere!! |
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14th September 2006, 10:30 AM | #38 |
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14th September 2006, 02:10 PM | #39 |
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Just wanted to let the Ninja's know that I rec'd an email from Mr. Avery, yesterday. The man is so much snarkier online than in person.
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14th September 2006, 02:54 PM | #40 |
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