Public Arab Skeptics: The Definitive List

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 06:35 AM

Who are the public arab skeptics? Their equivalents of Randi, Dawkins, etc.?
If they have blogs or websites, please post them. And please don't clutter up this thread with negative or irrelevant stuff. Thanks.

Zep · 26th September 2006, 06:42 AM

Errrm... What?

Define your terms. What is a "public Arab skeptic", according to you?

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

Errrm... What?

Define your terms. What is a "public Arab skeptic", according to you?

public: someone that engages the public, rather than "my drinking buddy Ahmed is a skeptic and arab".

Arab: someone who is of the arabic speaking peoples, generally from the middle east or north africa.

skeptic: someone who identifies as a skeptic, who prefers empiricism and doubt to believing in things on "faith".

IllegalArgument · 26th September 2006, 07:20 AM

Ibn Warraq

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq

Zep · 26th September 2006, 07:24 AM

Ah, I see. You are looking for...

public (Arab skeptics)

Not...

(public Arab) skeptics.

That is, you are looking for Arabs who are skeptics, and who are well-known as such. And presumably you mean skeptical of various Arab political processes and machinations, and possibly even of Arab religion (or that they may be atheist).

Just clarifying the situation. Thanks.

Brainache · 26th September 2006, 07:28 AM

Here's another one, Ali Sina:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina

steenkh · 26th September 2006, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

Ah, I see. You are looking for...

public (Arab skeptics)

Not...

(public Arab) skeptics.

What is a "(public Arab) skeptic"?
A skeptic who publically Arab but privately something else?

Darat · 26th September 2006, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dave1001

Who are the public arab skeptics? Their equivalents of Randi, Dawkins, etc.?
If they have blogs or websites, please post them. And please don't clutter up this thread with negative or irrelevant stuff. Thanks.

Can you read Arabic? I'm asking since I think it is going to be rather difficult to collate such a list without being able to read their blogs etc.

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Can you read Arabic? I'm asking since I think it is going to be rather difficult to collate such a list without being able to read their blogs etc.

I can not. I'm interested in those as well, but of course it will be more helpful to know about those who write and publish in English, too.

IllegalArgument · 26th September 2006, 07:42 AM

Ibn Warraq seems like type of skeptic you are looking for.

Dawkins referred to him a few times in "The God Delusion".

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by IllegalArgument

Ibn Warraq seems like type of skeptic you are looking for.

Dawkins referred to him a few times in "The God Delusion".

Yes but it seems "Ibn Warraq" is a psuedonym, so he doesn't quite fit the "public" requirement.

Ali Sina seems to be a great example though. There must be others?

Overman · 26th September 2006, 07:46 AM

Dave get back to work.

IllegalArgument · 26th September 2006, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dave1001

Yes but it seems "Ibn Warraq" is a psuedonym, so he doesn't quite fit the "public" requirement.

Ali Sina seems to be a great example though. There must be others?

Considering how dangerous it is to be an Arab, who is skeptical of Islam, it's not surprising that most keep their details private.

What are you aiming for?

Oh, yeah GET BACK TO WORK.

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by IllegalArgument

Considering how dangerous it is to be an Arab, who is skeptical of Islam, it's not surprising that most keep their details private.

What are you aiming for?

Oh, yeah GET BACK TO WORK.

I'm sure it's not surprising that most remain anonymous. That's why I'm interested in the few who choose to be public.

Jekyll · 26th September 2006, 09:06 AM

Would you count Salman Rushdie?
He was born in India but spent a lot of time in Pakistan and his work is obviously highly influenced by Islam.

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Would you count Salman Rushdie?
He was born in India but spent a lot of time in Pakistan and his work is obviously highly influenced by Islam.

I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic.

Big Les · 26th September 2006, 09:37 AM

Are you specifying Arabs as opposed to Muslims?

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Big Les

Are you specifying Arabs as opposed to Muslims?

Yes. I think it would be difficult if not oxymoronic to be a Muslim skeptic, like a christian skeptic.

But I am interested in folks that come from muslim communities and have muslim parents, but choose to be skeptics. For example Indonesian, Pakistani, & Iranian skeptics.

bjb · 26th September 2006, 11:19 AM

I'm not sure if Ghada Jamsir has declared herself to be a skeptic, but she sure seems like one.

By the way, people from Iran are not Arabs so you're leaving out a lot of candidates.

Q-Source · 26th September 2006, 12:01 PM

Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

She is a very courageous woman, there is a classic debate she had with a radical muslim some time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by bjb

I'm not sure if Ghada Jamsir has declared herself to be a skeptic, but she sure seems like one.

By the way, people from Iran are not Arabs so you're leaving out a lot of candidates.

you must have missed this?

Originally Posted by Dave1001

But I am interested in folks that come from muslim communities and have muslim parents, but choose to be skeptics. For example Indonesian, Pakistani, & Iranian skeptics.

Dr Adequate · 26th September 2006, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1001

I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic.

"Magical realism" is a literary genre involving the introduction of magical elements into the real world, not the belief that magic is real.

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

"Magical realism" is a literary genre involving the introduction of magical elements into the real world, not the belief that magic is real.

Yes, but I think magical realist writers often claim to have a magical realist view of the world as well. It's not clear to me that Rushdie doesn't have such a view.

RyanRoberts · 26th September 2006, 02:32 PM

Ibn Warraq is British, from a Pakistani backgorund. Ali Sina is an Iranian born American citizen.

You might want to try Here and look for the atheists.

Dr Adequate · 26th September 2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1001

Yes, but I think magical realist writers often claim to have a magical realist view of the world as well.

Evidence?

Dave1001 · 26th September 2006, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Evidence?

I don't have any nor time to look for it. Just a general impression. But if you have evidence that Rushdie is a skeptic rather than a magical realist in terms of his approach to ascertaining reality, please share it. It would be greatly appreciated.

Brainache · 26th September 2006, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Q-Source

Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

She is a very courageous woman, there is a classic debate she had with a radical muslim some time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

This woman is a hero. Fantastic. The world needs more like her and a way to give them a voice in the middle east.

TriangleMan · 26th September 2006, 10:06 PM

Is this list primarily for Arab's that are skeptical of Islam, or for those that may be Muslims but challenge things like faith healers, psychics, astrologers, etc?

Dave1001 · 27th September 2006, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by TriangleMan

Is this list primarily for Arab's that are skeptical of Islam, or for those that may be Muslims but challenge things like faith healers, psychics, astrologers, etc?

No. Arabs that would be skeptical of all of the above. Also people from traditionally muslim ethnicities and communities, with primarily muslim ancestors, who are skeptical of all of the above.

TriangleMan · 27th September 2006, 01:47 AM

How about Irshad Manji.

Dave1001 · 27th September 2006, 02:55 AM

So here's the list so far. Some on the list claim to be muslim, but in a Unitarian sort of way (Irshad Manji). Some may be magical realists (Salman Rushdie) and one is using a pseudonym (Ibn Warraq). The others seem to be solid Arab or from Islamic culture public skeptics. Any others to add to the list?

Irshad Manji
Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan
Ali Sina http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina
Ghada Jamsir
Ibn Warraq is British, from a Pakistani backgorund.
Salman Rushdie

steenkh · 27th September 2006, 04:06 AM

At the Fifth World Skeptics Congress that I attended in 2004, there was a delegation from Egypt. I remember the names of two members, Mourad Whaba, and Mona Abousenna who gave short presentations. This was mainly about the enormous difficulties facing skeptics in that part of the world. To quote my report in SkepticReport.com:

Quote:

After this bleak picture, the Egyptian delegation reported how skepticists are religiously persecuted in the Muslim World. Even claims that have nothing to do with religion are out of bounds, because religious activists want to focus on religious issues. The female member, Mona Abousenna, was fired from one university job, because she had chaired a meeting of global trends in literature. In the religious mind, only Islam can be global!

I think it is extremely couragious for anybody from a muslim country to stand up and "confess" to be a skeptic!

Jekyll · 27th September 2006, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dave1001

I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic.

He is a self proclaimed atheist and writes with a startling amount of clarity and insight.

I would need verifiable sources of his personal quotes before I could accept that he believes in the fairies at the bottom of the garden (say).

26th September 2006, 06:35 AM	#1
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Public Arab Skeptics: The Definitive List Who are the public arab skeptics? Their equivalents of Randi, Dawkins, etc.? If they have blogs or websites, please post them. And please don't clutter up this thread with negative or irrelevant stuff. Thanks.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 06:42 AM	#2
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Errrm... What? Define your terms. What is a "public Arab skeptic", according to you?
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

26th September 2006, 07:18 AM	#3
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Zep Errrm... What? Define your terms. What is a "public Arab skeptic", according to you? public: someone that engages the public, rather than "my drinking buddy Ahmed is a skeptic and arab". Arab: someone who is of the arabic speaking peoples, generally from the middle east or north africa. skeptic: someone who identifies as a skeptic, who prefers empiricism and doubt to believing in things on "faith".
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 07:20 AM	#4
IllegalArgument Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 1,757	Ibn Warraq Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq
	__________________ Ann Coulter is the Paris Hilton of politics. Sam Harris is the Ann Coulter of atheists. When you get to be my age you realize the wannabecoolself wins when it stops trying to hide the geekself. -- Garrette

26th September 2006, 07:24 AM	#5
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Ah, I see. You are looking for... public (Arab skeptics) Not... (public Arab) skeptics. That is, you are looking for Arabs who are skeptics, and who are well-known as such. And presumably you mean skeptical of various Arab political processes and machinations, and possibly even of Arab religion (or that they may be atheist). Just clarifying the situation. Thanks.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

26th September 2006, 07:28 AM	#6
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Here's another one, Ali Sina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

26th September 2006, 07:30 AM	#7
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,481	Originally Posted by Zep Ah, I see. You are looking for... public (Arab skeptics) Not... (public Arab) skeptics. What is a "(public Arab) skeptic"? A skeptic who publically Arab but privately something else?
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

26th September 2006, 07:31 AM	#8
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,788	Originally Posted by Dave1001 Who are the public arab skeptics? Their equivalents of Randi, Dawkins, etc.? If they have blogs or websites, please post them. And please don't clutter up this thread with negative or irrelevant stuff. Thanks. Can you read Arabic? I'm asking since I think it is going to be rather difficult to collate such a list without being able to read their blogs etc.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

26th September 2006, 07:35 AM	#9
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Darat Can you read Arabic? I'm asking since I think it is going to be rather difficult to collate such a list without being able to read their blogs etc. I can not. I'm interested in those as well, but of course it will be more helpful to know about those who write and publish in English, too.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 07:42 AM	#10
IllegalArgument Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 1,757	Ibn Warraq seems like type of skeptic you are looking for. Dawkins referred to him a few times in "The God Delusion".
	__________________ Ann Coulter is the Paris Hilton of politics. Sam Harris is the Ann Coulter of atheists. When you get to be my age you realize the wannabecoolself wins when it stops trying to hide the geekself. -- Garrette

26th September 2006, 07:44 AM	#11
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by IllegalArgument Ibn Warraq seems like type of skeptic you are looking for. Dawkins referred to him a few times in "The God Delusion". Yes but it seems "Ibn Warraq" is a psuedonym, so he doesn't quite fit the "public" requirement. Ali Sina seems to be a great example though. There must be others?
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 07:46 AM	#12
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,630	Dave get back to work.
	__________________ Our new album 'The Future is Gonna be Great' on iTunes!!! Our old 'The Evolution EP' still on iTunes

26th September 2006, 07:48 AM	#13
IllegalArgument Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 1,757	Originally Posted by Dave1001 Yes but it seems "Ibn Warraq" is a psuedonym, so he doesn't quite fit the "public" requirement. Ali Sina seems to be a great example though. There must be others? Considering how dangerous it is to be an Arab, who is skeptical of Islam, it's not surprising that most keep their details private. What are you aiming for? Oh, yeah GET BACK TO WORK.
	__________________ Ann Coulter is the Paris Hilton of politics. Sam Harris is the Ann Coulter of atheists. When you get to be my age you realize the wannabecoolself wins when it stops trying to hide the geekself. -- Garrette

26th September 2006, 08:51 AM	#14
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by IllegalArgument Considering how dangerous it is to be an Arab, who is skeptical of Islam, it's not surprising that most keep their details private. What are you aiming for? Oh, yeah GET BACK TO WORK. I'm sure it's not surprising that most remain anonymous. That's why I'm interested in the few who choose to be public.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 09:06 AM	#15
Jekyll Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The other other place Posts: 1,589	Would you count Salman Rushdie? He was born in India but spent a lot of time in Pakistan and his work is obviously highly influenced by Islam.
	__________________ And I looked. And behold a green horse, and his name that sat on him was death. ~Tyndale New Testament

26th September 2006, 09:12 AM	#16
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Jekyll Would you count Salman Rushdie? He was born in India but spent a lot of time in Pakistan and his work is obviously highly influenced by Islam. I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 09:37 AM	#17
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Are you specifying Arabs as opposed to Muslims?
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

26th September 2006, 09:40 AM	#18
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Big Les Are you specifying Arabs as opposed to Muslims? Yes. I think it would be difficult if not oxymoronic to be a Muslim skeptic, like a christian skeptic. But I am interested in folks that come from muslim communities and have muslim parents, but choose to be skeptics. For example Indonesian, Pakistani, & Iranian skeptics.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 11:19 AM	#19
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079	I'm not sure if Ghada Jamsir has declared herself to be a skeptic, but she sure seems like one. By the way, people from Iran are not Arabs so you're leaving out a lot of candidates.
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079

26th September 2006, 12:01 PM	#20
Q-Source Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,268	Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan She is a very courageous woman, there is a classic debate she had with a radical muslim some time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0
Q-Source Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,268

26th September 2006, 01:11 PM	#21
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by bjb I'm not sure if Ghada Jamsir has declared herself to be a skeptic, but she sure seems like one. By the way, people from Iran are not Arabs so you're leaving out a lot of candidates. you must have missed this? Originally Posted by Dave1001 But I am interested in folks that come from muslim communities and have muslim parents, but choose to be skeptics. For example Indonesian, Pakistani, & Iranian skeptics.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 02:21 PM	#22
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Originally Posted by Dave1001 I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic. "Magical realism" is a literary genre involving the introduction of magical elements into the real world, not the belief that magic is real.

26th September 2006, 02:23 PM	#23
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate "Magical realism" is a literary genre involving the introduction of magical elements into the real world, not the belief that magic is real. Yes, but I think magical realist writers often claim to have a magical realist view of the world as well. It's not clear to me that Rushdie doesn't have such a view.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 02:32 PM	#24
RyanRoberts Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 308	Ibn Warraq is British, from a Pakistani backgorund. Ali Sina is an Iranian born American citizen. You might want to try Here and look for the atheists.

26th September 2006, 02:36 PM	#25
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Originally Posted by Dave1001 Yes, but I think magical realist writers often claim to have a magical realist view of the world as well. Evidence?

26th September 2006, 03:57 PM	#26
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate Evidence? I don't have any nor time to look for it. Just a general impression. But if you have evidence that Rushdie is a skeptic rather than a magical realist in terms of his approach to ascertaining reality, please share it. It would be greatly appreciated.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

26th September 2006, 05:58 PM	#27
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by Q-Source Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan She is a very courageous woman, there is a classic debate she had with a radical muslim some time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0 This woman is a hero. Fantastic. The world needs more like her and a way to give them a voice in the middle east.
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

26th September 2006, 10:06 PM	#28
TriangleMan Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Qatar (ya rly!) Posts: 1,208	Is this list primarily for Arab's that are skeptical of Islam, or for those that may be Muslims but challenge things like faith healers, psychics, astrologers, etc?

27th September 2006, 01:38 AM	#29
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	Originally Posted by TriangleMan Is this list primarily for Arab's that are skeptical of Islam, or for those that may be Muslims but challenge things like faith healers, psychics, astrologers, etc? No. Arabs that would be skeptical of all of the above. Also people from traditionally muslim ethnicities and communities, with primarily muslim ancestors, who are skeptical of all of the above.
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

27th September 2006, 01:47 AM	#30
TriangleMan Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Qatar (ya rly!) Posts: 1,208	How about Irshad Manji.

27th September 2006, 02:55 AM	#31
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	So here's the list so far. Some on the list claim to be muslim, but in a Unitarian sort of way (Irshad Manji). Some may be magical realists (Salman Rushdie) and one is using a pseudonym (Ibn Warraq). The others seem to be solid Arab or from Islamic culture public skeptics. Any others to add to the list? Irshad Manji Wafa Sultan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan Ali Sina http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina Ghada Jamsir Ibn Warraq is British, from a Pakistani backgorund. Salman Rushdie
Dave1001 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,717	__________________ I'm here to discuss ideas, not to get personal. I won't criticize you personally, please don't criticize me personally. I won't direct ad hominems at you, please don't direct ad hominems at me. I won't attack you or put you down, please don't attack me or put me down. Thanks.

27th September 2006, 04:06 AM	#32
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,481	At the Fifth World Skeptics Congress that I attended in 2004, there was a delegation from Egypt. I remember the names of two members, Mourad Whaba, and Mona Abousenna who gave short presentations. This was mainly about the enormous difficulties facing skeptics in that part of the world. To quote my report in SkepticReport.com: Quote: After this bleak picture, the Egyptian delegation reported how skepticists are religiously persecuted in the Muslim World. Even claims that have nothing to do with religion are out of bounds, because religious activists want to focus on religious issues. The female member, Mona Abousenna, was fired from one university job, because she had chaired a meeting of global trends in literature. In the religious mind, only Islam can be global! I think it is extremely couragious for anybody from a muslim country to stand up and "confess" to be a skeptic!
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

27th September 2006, 08:44 AM	#33
Jekyll Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The other other place Posts: 1,589	Originally Posted by Dave1001 I'm not sure if he counts. He certainly is anti-fundamentalist and pro-liberalism in governance, but he also seems to be more of a self-identified magical realist than a skeptic. He is a self proclaimed atheist and writes with a startling amount of clarity and insight. I would need verifiable sources of his personal quotes before I could accept that he believes in the fairies at the bottom of the garden (say).
	__________________ And I looked. And behold a green horse, and his name that sat on him was death. ~Tyndale New Testament