35% Hydrogen Peroxide source needed

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 09:36 AM

Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Serenity

Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

I was doing some research into a case of spontaneous human combustion which may have been caused by hydrogen peroxide being spilled on cotton. It turns out 35% hydrogen perxoide is, in the U.S. anyway, used almost exlusively for industrial purposes, and is considered a hazardous material. I don't think you can buy or transport it without proper certification.

Ririon · 27th September 2006, 09:51 AM

First of all: DO NOT DRINK hydrogen peroxide. The best result you can get from that is none at all if it is dilute enough. Worst case is horrible.

Secondly: DHS will send the Feds to have a chat with you if you go around buying rocket fuel.

http://www.quackwatch.org/02Consumer...ions/h2o2.html

Bikewer · 27th September 2006, 09:54 AM

I was going to second that; not only is high-potency hydrogen peroxide a component of rocket fuels, but is currently the darling of naughty types who wish to manufacture their own explosives.

It would quite possibly be on some homeland security watchlist.

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 10:08 AM

Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks!

I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here:

http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

I was doing some research into a case of spontaneous human combustion which may have been caused by hydrogen peroxide being spilled on cotton. It turns out 35% hydrogen perxoide is, in the U.S. anyway, used almost exlusively for industrial purposes, and is considered a hazardous material. I don't think you can buy or transport it without proper certification.

I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure.

ponderingturtle · 27th September 2006, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Serenity

Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks!

I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here:

http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm

I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure.

So the goal was to cook and sterilize the produce at the same time?

Ririon · 27th September 2006, 10:21 AM

OK. All you need to do is bribe somebody at the chemistry department at your local college. Beer might work. Or sex. Laboratory grade chemicals are as good as it gets. Just make sure you get a whole sealed bottle.

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

So the goal was to cook and sterilize the produce at the same time?

Hi PT,
I hope not.

I'd prefer to buy it in concentration and dilute it down to to 3% as needed. 35% appeared to be a standard concentration for the food-grade version. I would be interested in any concentration in-between, under the circumstances.

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Serenity

Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks!

I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here:

http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm

I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure.

The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant.

Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of.

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Ririon

OK. All you need to do is bribe somebody at the chemistry department at your local college. Beer might work. Or sex. Laboratory grade chemicals are as good as it gets. Just make sure you get a whole sealed bottle.

I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing?

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Serenity

I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing?

Oh, hair bleaching produts contain about the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can, as a regular joe, buy. Cosmeticians, or beauticians, or whatever the people who bleach hair for a living are called, can buy stuff that's up to 16% hydrogen peroxide, but officially, not everyone can buy it. Unofficially, I called a bunch a places here in Miami a few months ago and half of them were willing to sell me the stuff. Scary.

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant.

Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of.

Excellent safety points, especially about it evaporating into a higher concentration. Now I just need to find a reliable source. I'll continue to look around. I'm trying to avoid all the woo vendors.

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Oh, hair bleaching produts contain about the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can, as a regular joe, buy. Cosmeticians, or beauticians, or whatever the people who bleach hair for a living are called, can buy stuff that's up to 16% hydrogen peroxide, but officially, not everyone can buy it. Unofficially, I called a bunch a places here in Miami a few months ago and half of them were willing to sell me the stuff. Scary.

I didn't realize it was so dangerous even at the lower concentrations. If I can't find a vendor selling specifically food-grade formulas, then I'll probably just pass on it.

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 10:36 AM

This site might interest you.

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_r...product_id=132

Serenity · 27th September 2006, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

This site might interest you.

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_r...product_id=132

Yes, nice find. I'm digging into it now.

I'll post any results I may find on this later; in case anyone else is interested as well. Thanks again for everyone's contribution and feel free to continue posting any additional information you may find on the topic, here.

Ririon · 27th September 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Serenity

I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing?

You'd have to come to Norway... And buy beer at Norwegian prices...

El Greco · 27th September 2006, 12:16 PM

I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far.

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by El Greco

I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far.

Wow. How did you get it?

El Greco · 27th September 2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Wow. How did you get it?

I guess it helps that I'm a pharmacist

ImaginalDisc · 27th September 2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by El Greco

I guess it helps that I'm a pharmacist

Yeah, that'd do it. :-p

joobz · 27th September 2006, 04:48 PM

So, what's the plan? A little H2O2, some Fe+2...Get a little fenton Chemistry brewing?

Esperdome · 27th September 2006, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

So, what's the plan? A little H2O2, some Fe+2...Get a little fenton Chemistry brewing?

We use 30% hydrogen peroxide and ferrous sulfate all the time in our in-situ chemical oxidation injection process to treat contamination plumes underground. If the hydrocarbons are present in high enough concentrations, the place looks like Yellowstone after a while.

fuelair · 27th September 2006, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant.

Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of.

Useful info I was unaware of - thanks!!!

joobz · 27th September 2006, 06:09 PM

Yup. And White blood cells do it all the time to get rid of bacteria.
I still don't know if i'd like to eat any food sprayed withit. Not for fear of poisoning, but couldn't imagine it tasting good.

H2O2 is readily permeable through cells. It'd get inside and react with whatever is there. that'd really ruin flavor since many flavor compounds are readily oxidized.

geni · 27th September 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Serenity

Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

www.sigmaaldrich.com

Do a search for hydrogen peroxide. Then find out what you can legal purchase and what they will sell you.

Goshawk · 28th September 2006, 01:50 PM

If you're just wanting to sanitize your produce, I don't understand why you need 35% peroxide. Both your linked sciencenews.org article and this article here, a study from way back in 1996 in which they used ordinary 3% peroxide coupled with acetic acid (vinegar) in tandem, to achieve sanitation of fresh produce, are talking about ordinary over-the-counter 3% peroxide. Where are you getting the "35%" figure?

ponderingturtle · 29th September 2006, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Goshawk

If you're just wanting to sanitize your produce, I don't understand why you need 35% peroxide. Both your linked sciencenews.org article and this article here, a study from way back in 1996 in which they used ordinary 3% peroxide coupled with acetic acid (vinegar) in tandem, to achieve sanitation of fresh produce, are talking about ordinary over-the-counter 3% peroxide. Where are you getting the "35%" figure?

I think the issues with that was that 3% was not food grade hydrogen peroxide.

Goshawk · 29th September 2006, 07:15 AM

But, in the two linked articles from sciencenews.org, they're using ordinary, over-the-counter buy-it-at-Osco 3% hydrogen peroxide. That's kind of the point of the studies, is to find a way for Mom to sanitize her lettuce from E. Coli at home without needing half the mad lab equipment from Bride of Frankenstein to do it. So they just used vinegar in one bottle and peroxide in the other bottle. Nowhere did they stipulate, "Now, Mom, you'll have to go to such-and-such a place and obtain special FOOD-GRADE peroxide." No, they just said, "Peroxide." So I don't see where Serenity's getting his idea that it has to be "food grade" peroxide, because apparently OTC works just fine. And you're gonna rinse it off afterwards with plain water anyway, if for no other reason than the vinegar will play merry hell with your dressing, so what difference does it make if the peroxide has "additives" in it? According to the studies, they presumably aren't toxic, or at least, not toxic enough that the microscopic amounts left on the lettuce after rinsing with water would make you sick.

Serenity · 29th September 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Goshawk

But, in the two linked articles from sciencenews.org, they're using ordinary, over-the-counter buy-it-at-Osco 3% hydrogen peroxide. That's kind of the point of the studies, is to find a way for Mom to sanitize her lettuce from E. Coli at home without needing half the mad lab equipment from Bride of Frankenstein to do it. So they just used vinegar in one bottle and peroxide in the other bottle. Nowhere did they stipulate, "Now, Mom, you'll have to go to such-and-such a place and obtain special FOOD-GRADE peroxide." No, they just said, "Peroxide." So I don't see where Serenity's getting his idea that it has to be "food grade" peroxide, because apparently OTC works just fine. And you're gonna rinse it off afterwards with plain water anyway, if for no other reason than the vinegar will play merry hell with your dressing, so what difference does it make if the peroxide has "additives" in it? According to the studies, they presumably aren't toxic, or at least, not toxic enough that the microscopic amounts left on the lettuce after rinsing with water would make you sick.

The statement below from one of the articles you mention may have misled you to equate 3% concentration with viability.

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch/9_28_96/food.htm
First, she squirts a vegetable with 3 percent hydrogen peroxide, the same strength available at the drug store for gargling or disinfecting wounds.

The 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide volume figure came from the first link I posted. http://www.stopcancer.com/aids&cancer18.htm
Despite the irreputable and ridiculous claims made elsewhere on that site, that particular page made sense. 35% appears to be a common standard within the food industry. I've seen that same figure quoted frequently on more reputable vendor sites.

The standard over the counter 3% peroxide products you mention, contain stabilizers, impurities, etc... disqualifing it from food grade status. See below.
3% Hydrogen Peroxide (Drug/Grocery Store Variety)
Used as antimicrobial agent for treating wounds and sanitizing agent
[Made from 50% Super D Peroxide, Diluted. Contains stabilizers - phenol, acetanilide, sodium stanate, tetrasodium phosphate among them.]
[This peroxide contains known chemicals do not ingest!]

The difference between technical and food grade appears to be minor, assuming your dealing with a trustworthy vendor. Here's one company's claims. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution since H2O2 residue will be ingested on a regular basis and I wouldn't have to worry about someone repackaging my product hygienically.

joobz -

Quote:

H2O2 is readily permeable through cells. It'd get inside and react with whatever is there. that'd really ruin flavor since many flavor compounds are readily oxidized.

From what I’ve read so far the peroxide leaves no lingering flavors in trace amounts--the vinegar did.

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...28_96/food.htm
“As for taste, the peroxide didn't leave any lingering flavors and the vinegar, when applied to the skins of tomatoes and peppers, proved hard to detect. While the vinegar's trace could be picked up on lettuce, even that isn't necessarily a major drawback, Sumner notes, especially if it's destined for a salad to be dressed with a vinaigrette.”

Geni-

Quote:

www.sigmaaldrich.com

Thanks for the vendor info Geni. What an extensive inventory they have. A local rep referred me to an in-state chemical supply company that I will be contacting Monday for pricing.

Serenity · 29th September 2006, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by El Greco

I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far.

Too far? At that high-concentration I’d bet you could rocket yourself dirty cheap anywhere you desired.

Originally Posted by Ririon

You'd have to come to Norway... And buy beer at Norwegian prices...

I was in The Netherlands several times last winter and would’ve drunk diluted Hydrogen Peroxide for the chance to visit your Nordic lands.

Ririon · 30th September 2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Serenity

I was in The Netherlands several times last winter and would’ve drunk diluted Hydrogen Peroxide for the chance to visit your Nordic lands.

When confronted with $10 pints (or would you rather have a weak $15 longdrink?), that peroxide might seem tempting again.

27th September 2006, 09:36 AM	#1
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	35% Hydrogen Peroxide source needed Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

27th September 2006, 09:39 AM	#2
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by Serenity Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. I was doing some research into a case of spontaneous human combustion which may have been caused by hydrogen peroxide being spilled on cotton. It turns out 35% hydrogen perxoide is, in the U.S. anyway, used almost exlusively for industrial purposes, and is considered a hazardous material. I don't think you can buy or transport it without proper certification.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 09:51 AM	#3
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 2,063	First of all: DO NOT DRINK hydrogen peroxide. The best result you can get from that is none at all if it is dilute enough. Worst case is horrible. Secondly: DHS will send the Feds to have a chat with you if you go around buying rocket fuel. http://www.quackwatch.org/02Consumer...ions/h2o2.html
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

27th September 2006, 10:08 AM	#5
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks! I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here: http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc I was doing some research into a case of spontaneous human combustion which may have been caused by hydrogen peroxide being spilled on cotton. It turns out 35% hydrogen perxoide is, in the U.S. anyway, used almost exlusively for industrial purposes, and is considered a hazardous material. I don't think you can buy or transport it without proper certification. I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure.
	Last edited by Serenity; 27th September 2006 at 10:11 AM.

27th September 2006, 10:21 AM	#7
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 2,063	OK. All you need to do is bribe somebody at the chemistry department at your local college. Beer might work. Or sex. Laboratory grade chemicals are as good as it gets. Just make sure you get a whole sealed bottle.
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

27th September 2006, 09:54 AM	#4
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,532	I was going to second that; not only is high-potency hydrogen peroxide a component of rocket fuels, but is currently the darling of naughty types who wish to manufacture their own explosives. It would quite possibly be on some homeland security watchlist.

27th September 2006, 10:15 AM	#6
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by Serenity Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks! I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here: http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure. So the goal was to cook and sterilize the produce at the same time?

27th September 2006, 10:22 AM	#8
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle So the goal was to cook and sterilize the produce at the same time? Hi PT, I hope not. I'd prefer to buy it in concentration and dilute it down to to 3% as needed. 35% appeared to be a standard concentration for the food-grade version. I would be interested in any concentration in-between, under the circumstances.

27th September 2006, 10:25 AM	#9
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by Serenity Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks! I promise I’m not drinking it. I’ve read about high concentrations being used for rocket fuel. Believe me, I want nothing to do with rocket fuel. I’m considering using it as a sterilizing agent on produce. I read an interesting article on it here: http://www.anapsid.org/vinegar.html http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...30_98/fob1.htm I was afraid of that. Pharmacies around here tend to have the 3% concentration that contain stabilizers declassifying them from food grade. For other reasons perhaps, too--not sure. The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant. Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 10:26 AM	#10
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by Ririon OK. All you need to do is bribe somebody at the chemistry department at your local college. Beer might work. Or sex. Laboratory grade chemicals are as good as it gets. Just make sure you get a whole sealed bottle. I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing?

27th September 2006, 10:29 AM	#11
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by Serenity I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing? Oh, hair bleaching produts contain about the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can, as a regular joe, buy. Cosmeticians, or beauticians, or whatever the people who bleach hair for a living are called, can buy stuff that's up to 16% hydrogen peroxide, but officially, not everyone can buy it. Unofficially, I called a bunch a places here in Miami a few months ago and half of them were willing to sell me the stuff. Scary.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 10:30 AM	#12
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant. Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of. Excellent safety points, especially about it evaporating into a higher concentration. Now I just need to find a reliable source. I'll continue to look around. I'm trying to avoid all the woo vendors.

27th September 2006, 10:33 AM	#13
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Oh, hair bleaching produts contain about the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can, as a regular joe, buy. Cosmeticians, or beauticians, or whatever the people who bleach hair for a living are called, can buy stuff that's up to 16% hydrogen peroxide, but officially, not everyone can buy it. Unofficially, I called a bunch a places here in Miami a few months ago and half of them were willing to sell me the stuff. Scary. I didn't realize it was so dangerous even at the lower concentrations. If I can't find a vendor selling specifically food-grade formulas, then I'll probably just pass on it.

27th September 2006, 10:36 AM	#14
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	This site might interest you. http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_r...product_id=132
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 11:09 AM	#15
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc This site might interest you. http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_r...product_id=132 Yes, nice find. I'm digging into it now. I'll post any results I may find on this later; in case anyone else is interested as well. Thanks again for everyone's contribution and feel free to continue posting any additional information you may find on the topic, here.

27th September 2006, 12:11 PM	#16
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 2,063	Originally Posted by Serenity I would if I knew someone. Are you the one I should be bribing? You'd have to come to Norway... And buy beer at Norwegian prices...
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

27th September 2006, 12:16 PM	#17
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,294	I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

27th September 2006, 12:30 PM	#18
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by El Greco I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far. Wow. How did you get it?
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 12:33 PM	#19
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,294	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Wow. How did you get it? I guess it helps that I'm a pharmacist
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

27th September 2006, 12:35 PM	#20
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by El Greco I guess it helps that I'm a pharmacist Yeah, that'd do it. :-p
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

27th September 2006, 04:48 PM	#21
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,499	So, what's the plan? A little H2O2, some Fe+2...Get a little fenton Chemistry brewing?

27th September 2006, 05:21 PM	#22
Esperdome Remedial Humorist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,066	Originally Posted by joobz So, what's the plan? A little H2O2, some Fe+2...Get a little fenton Chemistry brewing? We use 30% hydrogen peroxide and ferrous sulfate all the time in our in-situ chemical oxidation injection process to treat contamination plumes underground. If the hydrocarbons are present in high enough concentrations, the place looks like Yellowstone after a while.
	__________________ "My Ed, but you are perhaps the most perplexing poster this forum has ever encountered." Rob Lister Junior Tosser, Loose popgun below decks. Visit The Dome "If it keeps on raining, the levee's going to break." Led Zeppelin

27th September 2006, 05:55 PM	#23
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc The EPA's initial review of the commerical uses for hydrogen peroxide in concentrations lower than 10% include disinfection of cultery for food service, as it leaves no harmful residue, but I don't recall them mentioning its use for washing food. Hydrogen peroxide tends to react with a lot of organic chemicals, which is part of why it's a good disinfectant. Also, if you do use any hydrogen peroxide at all for whatever purpose, make sure to clean up any spills promptly, and then wash the rag, napkin, mop or towel with water right away. Hrdyrogen peroxide has a significantly higher boiling point than water, and puddles of hydrogen pexoide increase slowly in concentration as a result. There's been some studies which show that even concentrations of hydrogen peroxide below 30% can cause explosions and/or fires when in contact with catalsysts, such as metals (including platinum and copper) and some textiles, including cotton, which a handy rag or mop might well be made of. Useful info I was unaware of - thanks!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

27th September 2006, 06:09 PM	#24
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,499	Yup. And White blood cells do it all the time to get rid of bacteria. I still don't know if i'd like to eat any food sprayed withit. Not for fear of poisoning, but couldn't imagine it tasting good. H2O2 is readily permeable through cells. It'd get inside and react with whatever is there. that'd really ruin flavor since many flavor compounds are readily oxidized.

27th September 2006, 06:16 PM	#25
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,575	Originally Posted by Serenity Anyone here know of a reliable consumer-source for food-grade, 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? It's very important it is the ingestible type. I understand from this wacky website it can be tricky to obtain? Not sure if that's true. Obviously, I’m suspicious about any info that website offers. I'm looking for small quantities and would like to purchase direct from a manufacturer or high turn-around vendor. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. www.sigmaaldrich.com Do a search for hydrogen peroxide. Then find out what you can legal purchase and what they will sell you.

28th September 2006, 01:50 PM	#26
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	If you're just wanting to sanitize your produce, I don't understand why you need 35% peroxide. Both your linked sciencenews.org article and this article here, a study from way back in 1996 in which they used ordinary 3% peroxide coupled with acetic acid (vinegar) in tandem, to achieve sanitation of fresh produce, are talking about ordinary over-the-counter 3% peroxide. Where are you getting the "35%" figure?

29th September 2006, 06:51 AM	#27
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by Goshawk If you're just wanting to sanitize your produce, I don't understand why you need 35% peroxide. Both your linked sciencenews.org article and this article here, a study from way back in 1996 in which they used ordinary 3% peroxide coupled with acetic acid (vinegar) in tandem, to achieve sanitation of fresh produce, are talking about ordinary over-the-counter 3% peroxide. Where are you getting the "35%" figure? I think the issues with that was that 3% was not food grade hydrogen peroxide.

29th September 2006, 07:15 AM	#28
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	But, in the two linked articles from sciencenews.org, they're using ordinary, over-the-counter buy-it-at-Osco 3% hydrogen peroxide. That's kind of the point of the studies, is to find a way for Mom to sanitize her lettuce from E. Coli at home without needing half the mad lab equipment from Bride of Frankenstein to do it. So they just used vinegar in one bottle and peroxide in the other bottle. Nowhere did they stipulate, "Now, Mom, you'll have to go to such-and-such a place and obtain special FOOD-GRADE peroxide." No, they just said, "Peroxide." So I don't see where Serenity's getting his idea that it has to be "food grade" peroxide, because apparently OTC works just fine. And you're gonna rinse it off afterwards with plain water anyway, if for no other reason than the vinegar will play merry hell with your dressing, so what difference does it make if the peroxide has "additives" in it? According to the studies, they presumably aren't toxic, or at least, not toxic enough that the microscopic amounts left on the lettuce after rinsing with water would make you sick.

29th September 2006, 03:24 PM	#29
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by Goshawk But, in the two linked articles from sciencenews.org, they're using ordinary, over-the-counter buy-it-at-Osco 3% hydrogen peroxide. That's kind of the point of the studies, is to find a way for Mom to sanitize her lettuce from E. Coli at home without needing half the mad lab equipment from Bride of Frankenstein to do it. So they just used vinegar in one bottle and peroxide in the other bottle. Nowhere did they stipulate, "Now, Mom, you'll have to go to such-and-such a place and obtain special FOOD-GRADE peroxide." No, they just said, "Peroxide." So I don't see where Serenity's getting his idea that it has to be "food grade" peroxide, because apparently OTC works just fine. And you're gonna rinse it off afterwards with plain water anyway, if for no other reason than the vinegar will play merry hell with your dressing, so what difference does it make if the peroxide has "additives" in it? According to the studies, they presumably aren't toxic, or at least, not toxic enough that the microscopic amounts left on the lettuce after rinsing with water would make you sick. The statement below from one of the articles you mention may have misled you to equate 3% concentration with viability. http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch/9_28_96/food.htm *First, she squirts a vegetable with 3 percent hydrogen peroxide, the same strength available at the drug store for gargling or disinfecting wounds.* The 35% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide volume figure came from the first link I posted. http://www.stopcancer.com/aids&cancer18.htm Despite the irreputable and ridiculous claims made elsewhere on that site, that particular page made sense. 35% appears to be a common standard within the food industry. I've seen that same figure quoted frequently on more reputable vendor sites. The standard over the counter 3% peroxide products you mention, contain stabilizers, impurities, etc... disqualifing it from food grade status. See below. *3% Hydrogen Peroxide (Drug/Grocery Store Variety)* Used as antimicrobial agent for treating wounds and sanitizing agent [Made from 50% Super D Peroxide, Diluted. Contains stabilizers - phenol, acetanilide, sodium stanate, tetrasodium phosphate among them.] [This peroxide contains known chemicals do not ingest!] The difference between technical and food grade appears to be minor, assuming your dealing with a trustworthy vendor. Here's one company's claims. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution since H2O2 residue will be ingested on a regular basis and I wouldn't have to worry about someone repackaging my product hygienically. joobz - Quote: H2O2 is readily permeable through cells. It'd get inside and react with whatever is there. that'd really ruin flavor since many flavor compounds are readily oxidized. From what I’ve read so far the peroxide leaves no lingering flavors in trace amounts--the vinegar did. http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_...28_96/food.htm “As for taste, the peroxide didn't leave any lingering flavors and the vinegar, when applied to the skins of tomatoes and peppers, proved hard to detect. While the vinegar's trace could be picked up on lettuce, even that isn't necessarily a major drawback, Sumner notes, especially if it's destined for a salad to be dressed with a vinaigrette.” Geni- Quote: www.sigmaaldrich.com Thanks for the vendor info Geni. What an extensive inventory they have. A local rep referred me to an in-state chemical supply company that I will be contacting Monday for pricing.

29th September 2006, 03:33 PM	#30
Serenity Serenity Now! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CT Central Lowlands Posts: 862	Originally Posted by El Greco I have 50% and it's dirty cheap too. Unfortunately I'm a little too far. Too far? At that high-concentration I’d bet you could rocket yourself dirty cheap anywhere you desired. Originally Posted by Ririon You'd have to come to Norway... And buy beer at Norwegian prices... I was in The Netherlands several times last winter and would’ve drunk diluted Hydrogen Peroxide for the chance to visit your Nordic lands.

30th September 2006, 10:25 AM	#31
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 2,063	Originally Posted by Serenity I was in The Netherlands several times last winter and would’ve drunk diluted Hydrogen Peroxide for the chance to visit your Nordic lands. When confronted with $10 pints (or would you rather have a weak $15 longdrink?), that peroxide might seem tempting again.
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.