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Old 17th June 2003, 06:38 AM   #1
Always Free
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Are There Any Straight Lines In Nature?

I can't really think of any truly straight lines or edges in nature.

Hair perhaps? If you look at a hair under a microscope it has anything but a straight edge. Some trees appear straight as they grow but they have bark and branches etc all over it.

Perhaps something microscopic is straight? Maybe it's staring me in the face and I just haven't noticed.
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Old 17th June 2003, 06:48 AM   #2
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If you look closely at a monocot plant you see that all the veins form in straight parallel lines.

Light also "flows" in straight lines (given that there it is going through a vacuum and there are no major gravitational bodies bending space or something like that).

On Earth, straight lines are very rare. But is it very easy to find perfect rectangles, occurences of Fibbonacci (spelling) numbers, and fractals everywhere you look.
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Old 17th June 2003, 06:53 AM   #3
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crystals.
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Old 17th June 2003, 07:53 AM   #4
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Virtually all movement , unless acted upon by an external force.

-OK, geodesic really, but straight enough for government work.
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Old 17th June 2003, 07:55 AM   #5
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The giant's causeway maybe?
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Old 17th June 2003, 08:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by LTC8K6
The giant's causeway maybe?
In what sense is the Giant's Causeway straight?
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Old 17th June 2003, 08:32 AM   #7
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The individual strands of a spider web, from point to point, are straight lines (at least orthagonal to the ground; with respect to the ground, they will sag slightly).

Consider electrical lines. If you look from the side, they sag. But if you look perfectly perpindicular to the ground, they are perfectly straight.
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Old 17th June 2003, 09:32 AM   #8
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The horizon.
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Old 17th June 2003, 10:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yahweh
. . .Light also "flows" in straight lines (given that there it is going through a vacuum and there are no major gravitational bodies bending space or something like that). . .
Actually the light is travelling in a straight line through curved space.
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Old 17th June 2003, 10:37 AM   #10
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Here's a few straight lines:

"Why did the chicken cross the road?"

"Two peanuts walk into a bar."

"My mother-in-law is so fat!"
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Old 17th June 2003, 11:14 AM   #11
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The horizon from the top of Pikes Peak is a arc!
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Old 17th June 2003, 11:58 AM   #12
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Ley lines
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Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century)

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Old 17th June 2003, 02:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by eli54
The horizon from the top of Pikes Peak is a arc!
maybe he was refering to the fact that the earth is in actual fact flat, all the spheroid, geoid nonsense is a load of balls.
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Old 18th June 2003, 05:02 AM   #14
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THERE ARE 14 STRAIGHT LINES IN NATURE
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Old 18th June 2003, 05:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BillyJoe
THERE ARE 14 STRAIGHT LINES IN NATURE
WHAT ARE THEY?
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Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century)

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Old 18th June 2003, 06:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
In what sense is the Giant's Causeway straight?

Try thinking of the bits that make up the giant's causeway.

Also, look up the definition of maybe.
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Old 18th June 2003, 06:49 AM   #17
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'...In Nature'...?

Exactly what does that mean 'in nature'?

Why aren't 'we' nature, and why aren't OUR products 'natural'?

I mean, we CAME 'from' the evolutionary process, right???

Or are the origins of this term suspect?

We as a collective people are not 'natural', and neither are our products. Compared to the animal world, we are in fact quite supernatural. I can't help but wonder how it came to be so...

I have a ruler on my desk, with a line as straight as they come.

If a bunch of beavers built a dam with perfectly straight lines, and right angle edges and corners, would that be 'in nature'? Why are our creations any less worthy of the description?
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Old 18th June 2003, 08:32 AM   #18
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I've seen straight lines in nature. Here's an example from Yonaguni, Japan:





Geologists say these are extremely rare, streaky erosion patterns. Or, they're manmade.
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Old 18th June 2003, 08:36 AM   #19
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Wow...

...the first one, actually looks like a platform with big steps at the far end...

Sense when does water form those kinds of erosion patterns?

Weird stuff.

*Edited to Add*

But definately manmade:

http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue1...apanunder.html


Taken from the site:

"What evidence has so far been collected suggests that the site did not succumb to a sudden geologic catastrophe. Aside from one or two monuments leaning at irregular angles, none of them displays any structural damage, no cracks or fallen stones. Instead, they appear in unruined, virtually pristine condition. They were either overwhelmed by rising sea-levels, sank with a slowly collapsing land-mass, or some combination of both. Most researchers opt for the last scenario, since oceanographers tell us that sea-levels rose from 100 feet 1.7 million years ago. Even so, the Japanese sites must be very old. They are constantly being swept clean by strong currents, so radiocarbon dating material is not available."
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Old 18th June 2003, 08:36 AM   #20
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Hexagonal basalt can contain straight lines.



Not all the lines on the basalt are straight, of course; but many of them are.

How about a cliff made of hexagonal basalt?



Crystals inside amethyst geodes form straight lines and even right angles.



Same thing with quartz:

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Old 18th June 2003, 09:01 AM   #21
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So...

...basalt 'grows' out of some material, not unlike crystals.

Very cool.

I am constantly amazed at what 'nature' holds in the way of 'patterns'.
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Old 18th June 2003, 09:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BillyJoe
THERE ARE 14 STRAIGHT LINES IN NATURE
Nicely done. Absolutely Capital (sic)
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Old 18th June 2003, 09:12 AM   #23
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Re: So...

Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas
...basalt 'grows' out of some material, not unlike crystals.

Very cool.

I am constantly amazed at what 'nature' holds in the way of 'patterns'.
Actually, Basalt is igneous - that is, it's produced via volcanic action. It's essentially just hardened lava; however, when it dries out, it tends to fracture - "split" - into hexagonal shapes. Yes it is quite weird!
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Old 18th June 2003, 09:18 AM   #24
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Wait...

... so some kind of chemical reaction occurs 'possibly' during a volcanic erruption (I haven't seen these things at all volcanic hot spots), and when it 'splits' or erodes, these are the shapes it makes...?

Where might one see these things? I'd LOVE to see this first hand.

*Did you check out the underwater city in Japan, via my link above?
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Old 18th June 2003, 09:48 AM   #25
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Re: Wait...

Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas
... so some kind of chemical reaction occurs 'possibly' during a volcanic erruption (I haven't seen these things at all volcanic hot spots), and when it 'splits' or erodes, these are the shapes it makes...?

Where might one see these things? I'd LOVE to see this first hand.
The particular location in the photos is the Devil's Postpile National Monument in East Sierra, California. The way it formed (and the way many other types of igneous rock form) has not only to do with chemical composition; a large part of it involves the way in which the lava deposit cooled. For example, foamy lava that has erupted and been thrown into the air will cool quickly, and be full of air pockets, thus you get pumice. Lava that stays hot long enough for the air bubbles to seep out, then cools quickly, forms hard and glassy obsidian. In the case of the Devil's Postpile, it was a pool of lava 400 feet deep. It cooled slowly and uniformly, and most important, solidly. As it contracted, it fractured into the hexagonal shapes. Another thing about the Devil's Postpile is that after it had cooled, it was run over by a glacier - that's why in the photos, the surface of the Postpile is not level, but grooved and rounded. Also, the glacier ripped off one side of the formation, so now there's a cliff where the columns are exposed. You can see little bits of columns laying on the ground at the cliff base where the glacier deposited them (and where some have presumably fallen off over the years).



Another very famous location that features the hexagonal basalt is Easter Island. A few book authors (like Von Daniken) didn't understand that hexagonal basalt is natural, so they used it as evidence that an "advanced civilization" lived there, which cut the rock.

Sometimes the columns don't fracture perfectly straight all the way down, like in this dramatic scene from Iceland:



Other places with basalt columns are Sardinia Italy, Devil's Tower National Monument in Wyoming (the one from the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind), various places in Oregon, Scotland, and all over Micronesia.


Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas
... *Did you check out the underwater city in Japan, via my link above?
Yeah....kind of creepy looking.
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:06 AM   #26
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Wow...



I am a novice rock collector, and I have seen rocks come in 'sheets', and any number of 'blocks', and even something similiar to that hexagonal spires. But THAT...that is really freaking cool.

I would LOVE to have some of those, TO USE as fence posts.

Check out some of these pictures of the underwater city:

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/sh...ollapsed/5/o/1
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:38 AM   #27
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Those photos are fascinating. While it's difficult to make a good judgement based only on photos (as opposed to being there), I'd say it isn't a spectacular stretch of the imagination to say that some of those structures look manmade. Rather than commercializing the site, they should probably take some time to conduct a more thorough study, so we wouldn't have to simply guess from pictures.

The problem with underwater structures (not surprisingly) is the exposure to water action itself. If the location is in an area where water moves a lot, conclusive signs like chisel marks and paints will have been long since gone. While straight lines and even basic geometric shapes aren't impossible in nature (yes, I've seen the Bimini road and it looks pretty much like beachrock to me), no tentative analysis would suffice in the case of structures like those in the photos.

On an aside....that website! "I keep expecting a similar suspense breaker in the battle of the Vedic transmigration of the soul versus evolution from ooze theories." WTF?
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:43 AM   #28
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'I' am planning to go diving...

...and THIS is my local. My fiancee is a certified sport diver, and has been beggint to try to drown me, so I am GOING, to this stop.

I have GOT to see this with mine own eyes, period end of story.

These structures don't look like the hand of water, but rather the hand of man.

---

WHAT IF, the plans are to let a bunch of people go in an out, then the scientists claimed that they 'removed' all the valid evidence, so the place is likely a fake because we can't prove it isn't.
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:57 AM   #29
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Re: Wow...

Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas

I would LOVE to have some of those, TO USE as fence posts.
...or perhaps as water fountains?
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:03 AM   #30
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In any case...

...they look like an untapped resource to ME!

*Edited to ADD*

Birdbaths...THAT's the big idea!? THAT is pathetic.

---

Can you imagine the kind of structural intergity you could achieve, if you employed these things into the design before hand!?

I'd make freaking huge, evil ass look'en basalt cabins & towers.

I'll bet I could make a pretty stout sh*t house, that's for sure.
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Old 18th June 2003, 12:50 PM   #31
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Re: Wait...

Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas
... so some kind of chemical reaction occurs 'possibly' during a volcanic erruption (I haven't seen these things at all volcanic hot spots), and when it 'splits' or erodes, these are the shapes it makes...?

Where might one see these things? I'd LOVE to see this first hand.

*Did you check out the underwater city in Japan, via my link above?
Pretty much every solid has a specific crystaline and grain structure. Like the facets on a gemstone, minerals (including iron, copper- elemental metalics) split along the shear lines. Basalt just happens to be a hexagonal extrusion looking crystal. Take one of those columns and break it-you get the original in minature.

To see some basaltic columns, Just cruise across from Armadillo to Albuturkey, NM- The Petroglyphs monument has a fair number, as does the area around White Rock/ Los Alamos.


RW
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Old 18th June 2003, 04:12 PM   #32
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Re: Wow...

Quote:
Originally posted by King of the Americas


I am a novice rock collector, and I have seen rocks come in 'sheets', and any number of 'blocks', and even something similiar to that hexagonal spires. But THAT...that is really freaking cool.

I would LOVE to have some of those, TO USE as fence posts.

Check out some of these pictures of the underwater city:

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/sh...ollapsed/5/o/1
YOu would like going to Edinburgh,, The castle is on an old volcanic plug and the basalt columns can be seen at various points, and knwn as the ribs of Scotland, also you have another volcanic plug about a mile away at the end of the Ryal Mile, that of Arthurs Seat and especially Salisbury Crags which show the route of the radical road.
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Old 18th June 2003, 04:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by BillyJoe
THERE ARE 14 STRAIGHT LINES IN NATURE
There are only 5 straight lines in Nature.
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Old 18th June 2003, 04:44 PM   #34
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Shadows.

Sunbeams.
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Old 18th June 2003, 06:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke T.


There are only 5 straight lines in Nature.
I count 6.
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Old 18th June 2003, 08:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Luke T: There are only 5 straight lines in Nature.

Joshua Korosi: I count 6.
Hmmm. I count 7. Could we be seeing different fonts?
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:50 PM   #37
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Not nature specifically, but if you believe that mathematics describe nature, or are nature, then a lot of curves are locally linear for in any given interval.

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Old 18th June 2003, 11:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Whodini: Not nature specifically, but if you believe that mathematics describe nature, or are nature, then a lot of curves are locally linear for in any given interval.
Can you give us an example (with equation)?
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:27 PM   #39
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Can you give us an example (with equation)?
Sure, although I honestly don't know if you are truly curious, or if you are "testing" me to be extremely annoying.

f(x) = x^2.

Basically, any function f, where you can "zoom in" to the point (a,f(a)), and it will have slope f'(a).

Another example is f(x) = sin(x), and a bazillion others.

-Who
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Old 19th June 2003, 02:04 AM   #40
Nucular
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Quote:
Originally posted by xouper
Hmmm. I count 7. Could we be seeing different fonts?
Oh, I get it!

Heh heh heh I get jokes
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