Chris Angel

Windom · 21st October 2006, 01:34 PM

Is it true that Chris Angel claims to have supernatural powers? I have read it in wikipedia today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criss_Angel

Quote:

Angel often states that several of the levitations, teleports and demonstrations of telekinesis he performs are done through the power of mind, body and spirit attained through meditation.

fuelair · 21st October 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Windom

Is it true that Chris Angel claims to have supernatural powers? I have read it in wikipedia today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criss_Angel

If the implied quote is accurate
then, yes he does.

Quinn · 21st October 2006, 02:36 PM

I don't think that's accurate. I've heard him on Penn's radio show specifically saying he doesn't want anyone to think he has supernatural powers, and deriding performers who work that angle.

Note that the quote above could be completely true; meditation could help him devise ways of doing the things he does. That doesn't necessarily imply that they're what they seem to be.

Beady · 22nd October 2006, 12:51 AM

Banacheck, one of the guest speakers on the cruise, frequently appears on Angel's show (as does Banachek's wife), and is on the show's staff. Banachek does not believe in supernatural powers.

Draw your own inferences.

Brown · 22nd October 2006, 09:48 AM

Keep in mind that some of Criss Angel's stunts are basically what they appear to be.

Even effects that take advantage of "secrets" may require considerable physical ability and mental concentration. Still others require intense trust in oneself, in one's crew and in one's equipment, and suppression or control of fear that many would find disabling.

Criss does not tell his audience which effects are real and which are aided by undetectable "secrets." And it's not unusual for him to say that there is a risk of death or injury when the actual risk is fairly low.

Besides, it has been my position that effects such as levitations, teleports and telekinesis are done largely through the power of the mind:

The mind of the spectator perceives an effect that it did not actually witness.

The mind of the performer devises a way to make something impossible appear to be possible.

The mind of the performer controls the performer's muscles, which in turn control an effect that seems to be psychokinesis or levitation or some other mysterious event.

Bob Klase · 22nd October 2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Brown

Besides, it has been my position that effects such as levitations, teleports and telekinesis are done largely through the power of the mind:

The mind of the spectator perceives an effect that it did not actually witness.

The mind of the performer devises a way to make something impossible appear to be possible.

The mind of the performer controls the performer's muscles, which in turn control an effect that seems to be psychokinesis or levitation or some other mysterious event.

But we could extend that line of reasoning to claim that everything by done humans and animals is done largely through the power of the mind. Then it becomes a meaningless claim.

Windom · 23rd October 2006, 02:14 AM

Yes if we redefine the meanings of words we can prove anything.

OK I'm glad too see I (or wiki writer) just misinterpreted Angel's words

Mercutio · 23rd October 2006, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

But we could extend that line of reasoning to claim that everything by done humans and animals is done largely through the power of the mind. Then it becomes a meaningless claim.

It always has been.

T'ai Chi · 24th October 2006, 04:10 PM

the claims of "largely through" and "only through" are quite different.

Josh Redstone · 24th October 2006, 05:32 PM

As far as I know, he asserts that he has no powers, especially when confronted with fans who think he actually does have powers.
However he doesn't seem to do it in the same way that Randi, or Penn & Teller would do it; he doesn't say to the audience that what he is about to do is done through slight of hand or trickery, he just says 'I'm going to attempt something,' or something along those lines - no mention of the supernatural, or lack of the supernatural at all. This leaves more open for the audience's imagination to play with

Gulliamo · 10th November 2006, 11:54 PM

If you follow Angel you'd know he's worked closely with Randi, Jacob Spinney, Penn, Banachek all JREF'ers. On Penn's show he's fully disclosed his beliefs. But he does let his fans come to whatever conclusion they want without contradicting them...

firecoins · 12th November 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliamo

If you follow Angel you'd know he's worked closely with Randi, Jacob Spinney, Penn, Banachek all JREF'ers. On Penn's show he's fully disclosed his beliefs. But he does let his fans come to whatever conclusion they want without contradicting them...

This is true. Alot of performers will allow spectators to come to their own conclusions. I prefer that performers do that. Of couse, I already have the conclusion.

21st October 2006, 01:34 PM	#1
Windom Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lithuania Posts: 92	Chris Angel Is it true that Chris Angel claims to have supernatural powers? I have read it in wikipedia today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criss_Angel Quote: Angel often states that several of the levitations, teleports and demonstrations of telekinesis he performs are done through the power of mind, body and spirit attained through meditation.
	__________________ Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -- Benjamin Franklin

21st October 2006, 02:04 PM	#2
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 15,891	Originally Posted by Windom Is it true that Chris Angel claims to have supernatural powers? I have read it in wikipedia today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criss_Angel If the implied quote is accurate then, yes he does.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 15,891

21st October 2006, 02:36 PM	#3
Quinn Breathtakingly blasphemous. Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,000	I don't think that's accurate. I've heard him on Penn's radio show specifically saying he doesn't want anyone to think he has supernatural powers, and deriding performers who work that angle. Note that the quote above could be completely true; meditation could help him devise ways of doing the things he does. That doesn't necessarily imply that they're what they seem to be.
	__________________ It's not a matter of living life without mystery or wonder. It's a matter of living life without the approval of people who ignorantly assume that by rejecting the irrational, I experience no mystery or wonder. And frankly, I do just fine without that.

22nd October 2006, 12:51 AM	#4
Beady Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 4,848	Banacheck, one of the guest speakers on the cruise, frequently appears on Angel's show (as does Banachek's wife), and is on the show's staff. Banachek does not believe in supernatural powers. Draw your own inferences.
	__________________ I don't care what you do to the women, leave me alone! -- Badlands Beady

22nd October 2006, 09:48 AM	#5
Brown Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 9,025	Keep in mind that some of Criss Angel's stunts are basically what they appear to be. Even effects that take advantage of "secrets" may require considerable physical ability and mental concentration. Still others require intense trust in oneself, in one's crew and in one's equipment, and suppression or control of fear that many would find disabling. Criss does not tell his audience which effects are real and which are aided by undetectable "secrets." And it's not unusual for him to say that there is a risk of death or injury when the actual risk is fairly low. Besides, it has been my position that effects such as levitations, teleports and telekinesis are done largely through the power of the mind: The mind of the spectator perceives an effect that it did not actually witness. The mind of the performer devises a way to make something impossible appear to be possible. The mind of the performer controls the performer's muscles, which in turn control an effect that seems to be psychokinesis or levitation or some other mysterious event.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

22nd October 2006, 02:23 PM	#6
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Originally Posted by Brown Besides, it has been my position that effects such as levitations, teleports and telekinesis are done largely through the power of the mind: The mind of the spectator perceives an effect that it did not actually witness. The mind of the performer devises a way to make something impossible appear to be possible. The mind of the performer controls the performer's muscles, which in turn control an effect that seems to be psychokinesis or levitation or some other mysterious event. But we could extend that line of reasoning to claim that everything by done humans and animals is done largely through the power of the mind. Then it becomes a meaningless claim.

23rd October 2006, 02:14 AM	#7
Windom Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lithuania Posts: 92	Yes if we redefine the meanings of words we can prove anything. OK I'm glad too see I (or wiki writer) just misinterpreted Angel's words
	__________________ Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -- Benjamin Franklin

23rd October 2006, 05:25 AM	#8
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	Originally Posted by Bob Klase But we could extend that line of reasoning to claim that everything by done humans and animals is done largely through the power of the mind. Then it becomes a meaningless claim. It always has been.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

24th October 2006, 04:10 PM	#9
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,233	the claims of "largely through" and "only through" are quite different.
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com

24th October 2006, 05:32 PM	#10
Josh Redstone Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 205	As far as I know, he asserts that he has no powers, especially when confronted with fans who think he actually does have powers. However he doesn't seem to do it in the same way that Randi, or Penn & Teller would do it; he doesn't say to the audience that what he is about to do is done through slight of hand or trickery, he just says 'I'm going to attempt something,' or something along those lines - no mention of the supernatural, or lack of the supernatural at all. This leaves more open for the audience's imagination to play with
	__________________ The Abecedarian Philosopher Watch me

10th November 2006, 11:54 PM	#11
Gulliamo Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 488	If you follow Angel you'd know he's worked closely with Randi, Jacob Spinney, Penn, Banachek all JREF'ers. On Penn's show he's fully disclosed his beliefs. But he does let his fans come to whatever conclusion they want without contradicting them...
	__________________ Understand, you have a right to a belief and a theory, but when they are contradicted by observation, you probably should reconsider them. -Doctor X "I'll pray for you." -Kirk Cameron (Evangelist) "I'll think for you." -Brian Sapient (Rational Responders)

12th November 2006, 02:30 PM	#12
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,054	Originally Posted by Gulliamo If you follow Angel you'd know he's worked closely with Randi, Jacob Spinney, Penn, Banachek all JREF'ers. On Penn's show he's fully disclosed his beliefs. But he does let his fans come to whatever conclusion they want without contradicting them... This is true. Alot of performers will allow spectators to come to their own conclusions. I prefer that performers do that. Of couse, I already have the conclusion.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.