3 Nuns face 30 years for WMD search

Questioninggeller · 20th June 2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Radical Nuns Face 30 Years For Inspecting U.S. Nukes
by John Tarleton
A year after the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan and seven weeks before U.N. weapon inspectors returned to Iraq, three Dominican nuns performed their own weapons inspection on the windswept high plains of northeastern Colorado.

Sisters Carol Gilbert, Jackie Hudson and Ardeth Platte entered Minuteman III missile silo N-8 near Greeley, Colorado at dawn last October 6 wearing white mop-up suits which said “Disarmament Specialists” in front and “Citizens Weapons Inspection Team” in back. After cutting through two fences, they hammered on the silo and on the tracks used to open the silo’s 120-ton concrete lids. They also used their blood to make the sign of the cross on the tracks and on the silo. They concluded their inspection with a liturgy and a burst of songs and hymns.

Within an hour of the first fence cutting, military personnel arrived in humvees with their machine guns pointed at the nuns. The three women were arrested and forced to lie face down in the cold for four hours. They now each face 30 years in prison on charges of sabotage and destruction of government property.

“For some of you this news may be difficult,” the nuns wrote afterward. “We can respond only by telling you that we are breaking through our own fears and intimidation, that we refuse to be immobilized by the intense call to patriotism that masks the lies, theft and killing of permanent war-making."

“If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.”

The inspection of silo N-8 was the first Plowshares action (see Berrigan page 11) performed on American soil since September 11 and the three nuns have been hit with the heaviest charges ever given to Plowshares activists. Hudson and Gilbert will both have high-powered attorneys when their trials begin March 31 while Platte will argue her case pro se.

“It’s utterly outrageous for the government to have brought sabotage charges against these nuns,” said Scott Poland, a Colorado attorney who will serve as Platte’s legal advisor along with Dwyer. “They’re just trying to cut them off at the knees. If they are convicted, they’ll die in prison.”

Article continued:
http://www.indypendent.org/articles/nuns.html

peptoabysmal · 20th June 2003, 09:46 PM

I guess when Jesus comes back in his flying saucer THEY'LL be ready, huh?

Khalid01 · 20th June 2003, 11:43 PM

I hope that they're prosecuted for 30 years or more in prison. I may be against nuclear armament, but my tax dollars(well, parents') went into the construction of the silo, and it shouldn't be defiled by some self-righteous nuns! And that was some "inspection" they did, something of less calibre than that that could be accomplished by teenagers! How childish they were. If they wanted to disarm the US they can complain to their congresspeople, drawing crosses in blood only tells me that they want their own theocracy.

BobK · 21st June 2003, 04:52 AM

Quote:

“If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.”

If done in Russia, Iraq, or Pakistan they probably wouldn't be criminals for long, because they'd be dead.

Malachi151 · 21st June 2003, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Khalid01
I hope that they're prosecuted for 30 years or more in prison. I may be against nuclear armament, but my tax dollars(well, parents') went into the construction of the silo, and it shouldn't be defiled by some self-righteous nuns! And that was some "inspection" they did, something of less calibre than that that could be accomplished by teenagers! How childish they were. If they wanted to disarm the US they can complain to their congresspeople, drawing crosses in blood only tells me that they want their own theocracy.

Oh holy f&*(&. MAYBE $10 of "your tax dollars" went to that, MAYBE, probably less than that. Yes, for your $10 you can want women to rot in prison for doing that they think is right

Give me a break.

They may be religious idiots, but they don't deserve 30 years in prison, that's for sure.

21st June 2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malachi151

Oh holy f&*(&. MAYBE $10 of "your tax dollars" went to that, MAYBE, probably less than that. Yes, for your $10 you can want women to rot in prison for doing that they think is right Give me a break.

They may be religious idiots, but they don't deserve 30 years in prison, that's for sure.

Who cares if they think it was right? They need to be given 30 years to set an example for the next line of idiots.

Globert · 21st June 2003, 10:38 AM

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.....

Khalid01 · 21st June 2003, 10:54 AM

The quanitity of money that my parents have contributed through taxes to maintain that silo is not important. They caused a disturbance in a most silly and fruitless fashion, probably upsetting a good sector of the military security forces, whom were thinking some real dangerous extremists were trying to get their hands on our nukes. Should we allow just anyone to go around upsetting government property because they feel like it, because they won't steal anything, but just dance around and graffiti government property? What if a real terrorist was amongst them, how could we tell? We can't guess peoples' motives when they start prancing around government property. They may want to make a statement, or they may want to start nuclear armageddon. Why risk the human race's existence for anyone? If these nuns get away with it, and we then bar others than America will look especially theocratic. These nuns could have complained about armament much more civilly and legally, but instead they were looking for jail time, it's their own fault.

Pyrrho · 21st June 2003, 02:23 PM

Time to electrify those fences. I'm appalled that they got as far as they did. Security at that base is never going to live down the fact that their perimeter was penetrated by three nuns.

subgenius · 21st June 2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Time to electrify those fences. I'm appalled that they got as far as they did. Security at that base is never going to live down the fact that their perimeter was penetrated by three nuns.

This was my point in a previous thread. What if they were terrorists?
Whoever was in charge of security needs to be replaced.

DialecticMaterialist · 21st June 2003, 03:07 PM

Excellent point subgenius. And yes, these nun's should be in prison. You don't mess with military equipment and nukes, whether you're a nun or not. Especially if you're a nun in my case.

EdipisReks · 22nd June 2003, 03:25 AM

i think that they should be given whatever sentence is the standard of the law, whether they are nuns or not.

Thumper · 22nd June 2003, 08:13 PM

What good is civil disobedience if you don't run the risk of being punished for your actions?

Good job to the nuns. I wish the media had picked up on it more. But they deserve the standard sentence. Hopefully their actions will bring nuclear disarmament back into the spotlight.

KelvinG · 22nd June 2003, 08:35 PM

Sounds like a good movie idea.

Three nuns break into a nuclear facility with hilarious results.
Where is Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane when you need them?

Skeptic · 22nd June 2003, 09:00 PM

“If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.”

A-hem.

If it were done in Iraq, Russia, or Pakistan, it would have been a violation of Iraqi, Russian, or Pakistani law. As it was done in the US, it was violation of US law.

Of course the US wouldn't have prosecuted them in for breaking Pakistani laws. But do you hear any demands from the Pakistanis to extradite the nuns, so they could be brought to trial in for violating a US law?

So, contrary to the lawyer's self-righteousness, the situation is pretty symmetrical.

subgenius · 22nd June 2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper
What good is civil disobedience if you don't run the risk of being punished for your actions?

Good job to the nuns. I wish the media had picked up on it more. But they deserve the standard sentence. Hopefully their actions will bring nuclear disarmament back into the spotlight.

The head of security deserves more punishment than they do.
These are old ladies. (This has all been discussed in another thread.)

blackpriester · 23rd June 2003, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subgenius

The head of security deserves more punishment than they do.
These are old ladies. (This has all been discussed in another thread.)

I tend to agree.
And for obvious reasons (endangering National Security et al...), the old ladies deserve PLENTY of punishment. An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS!

subgenius · 23rd June 2003, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackpriester

I tend to agree.
And for obvious reasons (endangering National Security et al...), the old ladies deserve PLENTY of punishment. An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS!

Let the punishment fit the crime. It was a symbolic act by religious old ladies. Think of your mother. Never could have happened if the security guy was awake. And what was the intent, and the actual harm?
30 years (or even 1 year) for old ladies? Like hackers the a**holes in charge should pay them for showing how lax their security was.
P.S. Justice includes mercy.

subgenius · 23rd June 2003, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackpriester

An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS!

They have been identified.....and there was no intent to do a terrorist act....you don't punish old ladies because of who they could have been (that's someone else's fault)....you punish the jerks who could have let terrorists in.
Can anyone hear me? These were old ladies.
Anyone got mothers out there?
9/11 is not an excuse to execute everyone, except the one's who let it happen.

Thumper · 25th June 2003, 09:18 AM

Wow...

First I'm agreeing with Jedi Knight...

Now I'm agreeing with subgenious.

Danng!

20th June 2003, 09:31 PM	#1
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	3 Nuns face 30 years for WMD search Quote: Radical Nuns Face 30 Years For Inspecting U.S. Nukes by John Tarleton A year after the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan and seven weeks before U.N. weapon inspectors returned to Iraq, three Dominican nuns performed their own weapons inspection on the windswept high plains of northeastern Colorado. Sisters Carol Gilbert, Jackie Hudson and Ardeth Platte entered Minuteman III missile silo N-8 near Greeley, Colorado at dawn last October 6 wearing white mop-up suits which said “Disarmament Specialists” in front and “Citizens Weapons Inspection Team” in back. After cutting through two fences, they hammered on the silo and on the tracks used to open the silo’s 120-ton concrete lids. They also used their blood to make the sign of the cross on the tracks and on the silo. They concluded their inspection with a liturgy and a burst of songs and hymns. Within an hour of the first fence cutting, military personnel arrived in humvees with their machine guns pointed at the nuns. The three women were arrested and forced to lie face down in the cold for four hours. They now each face 30 years in prison on charges of sabotage and destruction of government property. “For some of you this news may be difficult,” the nuns wrote afterward. “We can respond only by telling you that we are breaking through our own fears and intimidation, that we refuse to be immobilized by the intense call to patriotism that masks the lies, theft and killing of permanent war-making." “If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.” The inspection of silo N-8 was the first Plowshares action (see Berrigan page 11) performed on American soil since September 11 and the three nuns have been hit with the heaviest charges ever given to Plowshares activists. Hudson and Gilbert will both have high-powered attorneys when their trials begin March 31 while Platte will argue her case pro se. “It’s utterly outrageous for the government to have brought sabotage charges against these nuns,” said Scott Poland, a Colorado attorney who will serve as Platte’s legal advisor along with Dwyer. “They’re just trying to cut them off at the knees. If they are convicted, they’ll die in prison.” Article continued: http://www.indypendent.org/articles/nuns.html

20th June 2003, 09:46 PM	#2
peptoabysmal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,467	I guess when Jesus comes back in his flying saucer THEY'LL be ready, huh?
	__________________ OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

20th June 2003, 11:43 PM	#3
Khalid01 Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Beach, Irvine, California Posts: 179	I hope that they're prosecuted for 30 years or more in prison. I may be against nuclear armament, but my tax dollars(well, parents') went into the construction of the silo, and it shouldn't be defiled by some self-righteous nuns! And that was some "inspection" they did, something of less calibre than that that could be accomplished by teenagers! How childish they were. If they wanted to disarm the US they can complain to their congresspeople, drawing crosses in blood only tells me that they want their own theocracy.
	__________________ "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov, Foundation "I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural and which I find totally satisfying. I am, in short, a rationalist and believe only that which reason tells me is so." - Isaac Asimov

21st June 2003, 04:52 AM	#4
BobK Muse Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: State of confusion Posts: 913	Quote: “If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.” If done in Russia, Iraq, or Pakistan they probably wouldn't be criminals for long, because they'd be dead.
	__________________ A mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.

21st June 2003, 05:39 AM	#5
Malachi151 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,405	Quote: Originally posted by Khalid01 I hope that they're prosecuted for 30 years or more in prison. I may be against nuclear armament, but my tax dollars(well, parents') went into the construction of the silo, and it shouldn't be defiled by some self-righteous nuns! And that was some "inspection" they did, something of less calibre than that that could be accomplished by teenagers! How childish they were. If they wanted to disarm the US they can complain to their congresspeople, drawing crosses in blood only tells me that they want their own theocracy. Oh holy f&*(&. MAYBE $10 of "your tax dollars" went to that, MAYBE, probably less than that. Yes, for your $10 you can want women to rot in prison for doing that they think is right Give me a break. They may be religious idiots, but they don't deserve 30 years in prison, that's for sure.
	__________________ www.rationalrevolution.net "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Teddy Roosevelt

21st June 2003, 10:08 AM	#6
ssibal Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Malachi151 Oh holy f&*(&. MAYBE $10 of "your tax dollars" went to that, MAYBE, probably less than that. Yes, for your $10 you can want women to rot in prison for doing that they think is right Give me a break. They may be religious idiots, but they don't deserve 30 years in prison, that's for sure. Who cares if they think it was right? They need to be given 30 years to set an example for the next line of idiots.
ssibal Guest Posts: n/a

21st June 2003, 10:38 AM	#7
Globert Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Location: Inside the Oort cloud, one A.U. from this medium star. Posts: 208	3 Nuns face 30 years for WMD search Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.....
	__________________ The hairless monkey cringes, cries out against the storm. Religion is born.

21st June 2003, 10:54 AM	#8
Khalid01 Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Beach, Irvine, California Posts: 179	The quanitity of money that my parents have contributed through taxes to maintain that silo is not important. They caused a disturbance in a most silly and fruitless fashion, probably upsetting a good sector of the military security forces, whom were thinking some real dangerous extremists were trying to get their hands on our nukes. Should we allow just anyone to go around upsetting government property because they feel like it, because they won't steal anything, but just dance around and graffiti government property? What if a real terrorist was amongst them, how could we tell? We can't guess peoples' motives when they start prancing around government property. They may want to make a statement, or they may want to start nuclear armageddon. Why risk the human race's existence for anyone? If these nuns get away with it, and we then bar others than America will look especially theocratic. These nuns could have complained about armament much more civilly and legally, but instead they were looking for jail time, it's their own fault.
	__________________ "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov, Foundation "I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural and which I find totally satisfying. I am, in short, a rationalist and believe only that which reason tells me is so." - Isaac Asimov

21st June 2003, 02:23 PM	#9
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678	Time to electrify those fences. I'm appalled that they got as far as they did. Security at that base is never going to live down the fact that their perimeter was penetrated by three nuns.
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678

21st June 2003, 02:33 PM	#10
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by Pyrrho Time to electrify those fences. I'm appalled that they got as far as they did. Security at that base is never going to live down the fact that their perimeter was penetrated by three nuns. This was my point in a previous thread. What if they were terrorists? Whoever was in charge of security needs to be replaced.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

21st June 2003, 03:07 PM	#11
DialecticMaterialist Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,022	Excellent point subgenius. And yes, these nun's should be in prison. You don't mess with military equipment and nukes, whether you're a nun or not. Especially if you're a nun in my case.
	__________________ Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering (Hitler's designated successor)

22nd June 2003, 03:25 AM	#12
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	i think that they should be given whatever sentence is the standard of the law, whether they are nuns or not.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

22nd June 2003, 08:13 PM	#13
Thumper Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 234	What good is civil disobedience if you don't run the risk of being punished for your actions? Good job to the nuns. I wish the media had picked up on it more. But they deserve the standard sentence. Hopefully their actions will bring nuclear disarmament back into the spotlight.
Thumper Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 234	__________________ Two cents from Tennessee.

22nd June 2003, 08:35 PM	#14
KelvinG Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 2,379	Sounds like a good movie idea. Three nuns break into a nuclear facility with hilarious results. Where is Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane when you need them?
	__________________ Science is like a blabbermouth that ruins the ending to a movie. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things - Ned Flanders

22nd June 2003, 09:00 PM	#15
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	“If anyone did something like this in Russia or Iraq or Pakistan or India, we would be applauding them,” added Anabel Dwyer, a Lansing, Michigan-based human rights lawyer and longtime friend of Sister Platte. “But if you do it here, it’s criminal.” A-hem. If it were done in Iraq, Russia, or Pakistan, it would have been a violation of Iraqi, Russian, or Pakistani law. As it was done in the US, it was violation of US law. Of course the US wouldn't have prosecuted them in for breaking Pakistani laws. But do you hear any demands from the Pakistanis to extradite the nuns, so they could be brought to trial in for violating a US law? So, contrary to the lawyer's self-righteousness, the situation is pretty symmetrical.

22nd June 2003, 10:57 PM	#16
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by Thumper What good is civil disobedience if you don't run the risk of being punished for your actions? Good job to the nuns. I wish the media had picked up on it more. But they deserve the standard sentence. Hopefully their actions will bring nuclear disarmament back into the spotlight. The head of security deserves more punishment than they do. These are old ladies. (This has all been discussed in another thread.)
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

23rd June 2003, 12:30 AM	#17
blackpriester Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Darmstadt, Germany Posts: 226	Quote: Originally posted by subgenius The head of security deserves more punishment than they do. These are old ladies. (This has all been discussed in another thread.) I tend to agree. And for obvious reasons (endangering National Security et al...), the old ladies deserve PLENTY of punishment. An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS!
	__________________ Every blackpriester loves to mix English with Deutsch, since it allows him to wear Kleidung like whitegummistiefel. http://heissescheisse.wordpress.com "Ubi dubium ibi libertas." (Where there is doubt, there is freedom)

23rd June 2003, 01:11 AM	#18
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by blackpriester I tend to agree. And for obvious reasons (endangering National Security et al...), the old ladies deserve PLENTY of punishment. An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS! Let the punishment fit the crime. It was a symbolic act by religious old ladies. Think of your mother. Never could have happened if the security guy was awake. And what was the intent, and the actual harm? 30 years (or even 1 year) for old ladies? Like hackers the a**holes in charge should pay them for showing how lax their security was. P.S. Justice includes mercy.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

23rd June 2003, 01:22 AM	#19
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by blackpriester An hour of unidentified people running around a strategic nuclear launch base... JESUS! They have been identified.....and there was no intent to do a terrorist act....you don't punish old ladies because of who they could have been (that's someone else's fault)....you punish the jerks who could have let terrorists in. Can anyone hear me? These were old ladies. Anyone got mothers out there? 9/11 is not an excuse to execute everyone, except the one's who let it happen.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

25th June 2003, 09:18 AM	#20
Thumper Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 234	Wow... First I'm agreeing with Jedi Knight... Now I'm agreeing with subgenious. Danng!
Thumper Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 234	__________________ Two cents from Tennessee.