Magic Water - the Shocking Truth!

Cuddles · 6th November 2006, 08:27 AM

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...-of-water.html

There really is a fourth state of water. I wouldn't recommend trying to drink it though.

Jocky · 6th November 2006, 08:32 AM

I wonder if this sort of water will turn out to have the "memory" which homeopaths are so fond of talking about

joobz · 6th November 2006, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Jocky

I wonder if this sort of water will turn out to have the "memory" which homeopaths are so fond of talking about

not to sound stupid, but what "memory" I've never read into homeo lit. to see that arguement.

Fnord · 6th November 2006, 09:18 AM

www DOT 0disease DOT com SLASH 0mwater DOT html

The "theory" is that water molecules retain a record of what they've come in contact with. This "theory" was first put forth by purveyors of "Quartz Elixers" that are nothing more than tap water that has been allowed to soak some quartz crystals for a few days.

In New Age Mysticism, this is called "Contagion" or "Contamination" -- an inert substance that comes in contact with an active substance "remembers" the active substance and thus takes on some aspect of the active substance.

Thus, we have devout Catholics touching pieces of cloth to the bones of long-dead "saints" in the belief that doing so imparts the cloth with some sort of healing power.

(Rhetorical Question: If there is so much healing power in the bones of a centuries-old saint, then why don't those bone heal themselves and restore that saint to life?)

This is also the basic "theory" behind the voodoo doll, which is an object that contains items that have been in contact with the victim, and thus whatever is done to the doll, the victim will feel.

"Voodoo Chemistry" == "Magnetic Water"

(I know my reasoning is not up to par today -- I've committed a fallacy or three -- but at least you now have something with which to start your own investigation.)

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

joobz · 6th November 2006, 09:43 AM

Ahh, thought it'd be something like that.

just as an aside, you can actually have a polymer with taht kind of property. If you polymerize a hydrogel containing some small fraction of ionic and cationic monomers in the presence of some small molecule, you can create spaces within the polymer that are preferentially geared to fit that molecule.

but water in it's liquid form doesn't do that.
no no no

jimtron · 6th November 2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

not to sound stupid, but what "memory" I've never read into homeo lit. to see that arguement.

Water Memory^WP

YouBelieveWHAT? · 6th November 2006, 10:31 PM

It's amusing that the first entry in "See Also" for the Wiki article on Water Memory is:

Junk Science

Well - it made me smile anyway..

YBW

Jocky · 7th November 2006, 01:35 AM

Thanks for providing the very coherent explanation, Fnord

The thing which most amuses me about water memory: the water I drink will remember that once upon a time it was in my toilet

rjh01 · 7th November 2006, 02:56 AM

I do not see the process being used to create or store Hydrogen. It needs to be done at very high pressures and lots of energy in the form of x-rays used. Hence high costs.

Cuddles · 7th November 2006, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

I do not see the process being used to create or store Hydrogen. It needs to be done at very high pressures and lots of energy in the form of x-rays used. Hence high costs.

Yeah, not very practical. But still pretty cool.

Samnite · 7th November 2006, 12:05 PM

Very cool. I think you can expect to see the "processing cost" come down if it turns out that it could be useful from a technological standpoint. That's how it normally works.

6th November 2006, 08:27 AM	#1
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,586	Magic Water - the Shocking Truth! http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...-of-water.html There really is a fourth state of water. I wouldn't recommend trying to drink it though.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

6th November 2006, 08:43 AM	#3
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Originally Posted by Jocky I wonder if this sort of water will turn out to have the "memory" which homeopaths are so fond of talking about not to sound stupid, but what "memory" I've never read into homeo lit. to see that arguement.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

6th November 2006, 09:18 AM	#4
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Magnetic Water Memory www DOT 0disease DOT com SLASH 0mwater DOT html The "theory" is that water molecules retain a record of what they've come in contact with. This "theory" was first put forth by purveyors of "Quartz Elixers" that are nothing more than tap water that has been allowed to soak some quartz crystals for a few days. In New Age Mysticism, this is called "Contagion" or "Contamination" -- an inert substance that comes in contact with an active substance "remembers" the active substance and thus takes on some aspect of the active substance. Thus, we have devout Catholics touching pieces of cloth to the bones of long-dead "saints" in the belief that doing so imparts the cloth with some sort of healing power. (Rhetorical Question: If there is so much healing power in the bones of a centuries-old saint, then why don't those bone heal themselves and restore that saint to life?) This is also the basic "theory" behind the voodoo doll, which is an object that contains items that have been in contact with the victim, and thus whatever is done to the doll, the victim will feel. "Voodoo Chemistry" == "Magnetic Water" (I know my reasoning is not up to par today -- I've committed a fallacy or three -- but at least you now have something with which to start your own investigation.) -Fnord of Dyscordia-

6th November 2006, 09:43 AM	#5
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Ahh, thought it'd be something like that. just as an aside, you can actually have a polymer with taht kind of property. If you polymerize a hydrogel containing some small fraction of ionic and cationic monomers in the presence of some small molecule, you can create spaces within the polymer that are preferentially geared to fit that molecule. but water in it's liquid form doesn't do that. no no no
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

6th November 2006, 09:49 AM	#6
jimtron Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,966	Originally Posted by joobz not to sound stupid, but what "memory" I've never read into homeo lit. to see that arguement. Water Memory^WP
	__________________

6th November 2006, 08:32 AM	#2
Jocky Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Banbury, Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 72	I wonder if this sort of water will turn out to have the "memory" which homeopaths are so fond of talking about

6th November 2006, 10:31 PM	#7
YouBelieveWHAT? Muse Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Nuernberg Posts: 994	It's amusing that the first entry in "See Also" for the Wiki article on Water Memory is: Junk Science Well - it made me smile anyway.. YBW
	__________________ I was planning to study Clairvoyance in school, but as I knew I would fail the exam, decided against it. And thanks to SkepticJ: We'd outgrown the fables, I knew. The sun isn't Apollo's chariot, of course, it's a star that began burning when a god said "Let there be light". Man was not created from clay by Zeus, he was created from clay by Yahweh. Hades didn't restore Euridice to life, please. That would be absurd. Jesus did, of course, restore Lazarus to life.... What morons we were before. How wise we are now. - Dale McGowan

7th November 2006, 01:35 AM	#8
Jocky Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Banbury, Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 72	Thanks for providing the very coherent explanation, Fnord The thing which most amuses me about water memory: the water I drink will remember that once upon a time it was in my toilet

7th November 2006, 02:56 AM	#9
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,188	I do not see the process being used to create or store Hydrogen. It needs to be done at very high pressures and lots of energy in the form of x-rays used. Hence high costs.

7th November 2006, 09:03 AM	#10
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,586	Originally Posted by rjh01 I do not see the process being used to create or store Hydrogen. It needs to be done at very high pressures and lots of energy in the form of x-rays used. Hence high costs. Yeah, not very practical. But still pretty cool.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

7th November 2006, 12:05 PM	#11
Samnite New Blood Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 13	Very cool. I think you can expect to see the "processing cost" come down if it turns out that it could be useful from a technological standpoint. That's how it normally works.
Samnite New Blood Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 13